If they take control of the Congress, You KNOW They'll do it

[WeDidIt]

They did it the last time they took control of Congress:



They'll do it this time if they take control:



It won't matter that he has never done anything wrong. All that matters to them is to de-legitimize the first African American president. If they can accomplish that, there won't be another African American president for a hundred years.

That's why voting in the mid-term elections matters.

[scheming daemons]

1. Yep... they'll create "birth certificate-gate".... or they'll invent some other conspiracy

[StevieM]

55. It really is amazing how elaborate the whole birth cirtificate theory is. At first I didn't even

understand what it was all about. After all, his mother was an America citizen, so why did it matter? Then it was explained to me that if he was born abroad, when his mother was under 21, then at that time the law said that these circumstances do not entitle you to citizenship. And this was before that law was changed.

This is one thorough explanation as to how he might not be a natural born citizen. It's not like it just hits you over the head--you have to work really hard to develop this one.

Steve

[Historic NY]

2. Thats why the birth certificate nonsense keeps rearing it head.

[WeDidIt]

5. That's why the deVattel argument has entered the Birther narrative

That's the entire reason why an 18th century Swiss Philosopher's wrtings (in French) have been held up as the precise definition of "Natural Born Citizen", even though he never used that phrase, the French phrase he used does not translate to those words, and no English translation translated it that way until 1797.

[mrcheerful]

3. No what they will do is start an investigation of his birth certificate and after wasting billions

of tax dollars they will then start an investigation of his ties with Ayers and see if Obama helped him plant bombs in the 60's, wasting billions more. Then they will drag out the secret muslum charge and try to prove he has ties with Bin Forgotten wasting billions more then blame the whole mess on the Dems for not stopping them.

[Warren Stupidity]

4. 100% certain.

We are watching a replay of 92-2000. Both sides are better prepared, but it is the same damn script.

[WeDidIt]

6. Republicans honestly believe they have a divine right to rule

and anything that alters their perceived divine right is of Satan.

This legitimizes them lying, cheating, stealing, and anything else to gain power within their tiny brains.

[mercuryblues]

20. God wants them to rule, donchya know

Republicans honestly believe they have a divine right to rule
Posted by WeDidIt

Of course they do. That is the only way we become a true xtian nation. When they rule the US, other nations will either follow or be bombed. They believe it is "God's plan". Funny how God always wants them to do exactly what they want to do.

This is their goal.

Read "The Family" It is taking me forever to read it, only because I get so disgusted, I have to put it down for a few days.

[HughMoran]

7. and to think that some think the Dems deserve to be in the minority as punishment

...for not being progressive enough.

Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. :(

[WeDidIt]

8. I think the mid terms might surprise us all

The polling models all assume a lower turnout from the African American community because historically that's always been the case.

But African Americans LOVED Bill Clinton and the remember what a Republican Congress did to him.

They won't want a repeat of that with Obama. I think African American turnout will end up shocking the pollsters and pundits this year.

[Number23]

61. Alot of black folks are sick of the whole effing exercise, to be honest with you

We KNEW the Republicans would show their asses at this President.

We knew that folks in large portions of this country would take this opportunity to show far America HASN'T come in terms of racial harmony and equality.

But to alot of black folks I know, it's the crap coming from so-called "liberals" at this President that has us seething. The lack of support from Day 1. The constant criticism over every issue, no matter how small or insignificant. The IMMEDIATE acceptance of every lie said about him, no matter how absurd or obviously far-fetched. I would like to share in your optimism that black turnout will be higher than expected this November but I honestly don't know if that's true.

[WeDidIt]

62. Barack suffers from Black Executive Syndrome

As somebody who has worked in the corporate world for most of his career, I'm very familiar with Black Executive Syndrome.

In the corporate world, any black man in management must perform three times better than his best performing peer in order to be considered in the same league as his worst performing peer.

White liberals starting holding him to this standard before he even took office. I saw it and called it when his office was in Chicago.

[Number23]

64. Absolutely. But if you call them on it, they'll scream to high Heaven that they aren't.

And try to call YOU the racist for even mentioning it.

[political_Dem]

72. Most definitely. But it says more about them instead of you.

[political_Dem]

70. +10000

The backlash from the "liberal side" was quite appalling. Beyond some of the folks peddling and believing the lies about the POTUS, the "post-racial America" some folks think we are in allows them to say the most racist things while writing them off as nothing. Calling out racism are minimized in this climate.

The Prop. 8 aftermath provided a glimpse of how horrible things have gotten. Of course, the Teabaggers added their own brand of racism with their signs and protests.

It is enough to make one's head spin. :(

What they don't get is that their racism is still hurtful before and after it was proclaimed a "post-racial America". I just think it has become more virulent now than back then. Some folks think that the anger against the POTUS justifies their attitude. If one speaks back against such ugliness, the racists will play stupid.

I agree about the turnout, but I hope that something does prompt the Black community to show up at the polls.

[Number23]

74. I completely agree.

The Prop. 8 aftermath provided a glimpse of how horrible things have gotten. Of course, the Teabaggers added their own brand of racism with their signs and protests.

You are 100% correct. And the sad part of the matter is, the same type of folks were responsible for all of the trouble, but it was black folks that got all of the blame. People acted as though black people wrote that bill, lobbied for it, and controlled the California legislature, as well as both houses of the U.S. Congress to get it passed. If we had that kind of power, we wouldn't have the problems that we have in this country.

The same folks that have ALWAYS been responsible for working overtime to deny people their rights in this country are prominent in the tea party movement, and it ain't and never has been black people.

[PopSixSquish]

12. That Simply Boggles My Mind

While there are certain Democratic members of Congress whose time has come and gone, I see many posters who remind me of the old saying "we'd rather lose the battle than admit to the mistake".

It won't just be President Obama they go after. Any member of Congress or Hill Staffer or government employee or American who ever worked with/for or even just met him could/would be subject to their spite. Many of the "regular folks" caught up in the Republican witch hunts of the mid to late 1990s incurred hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal bills and their families were harrassed almost daily.

Regardless of how disappointed I am or get with the current administration, I'm not willing to relive the past 16 years just prove a point...

[iamjoy]

9. Rezko or Blagojevich

It won't be the Birth Certificate. Mainstream Republicans know that just makes them sound crazy - they may make suggestions to throw a little meat to their masses, but wouldn't seriously pursue it. NO, they will investigate until they find some hint of wrong doing in Obama's dealings with Rezko or Blagojevich. If they can't find a hint, they will "investigate" to make him look bad.

[Bitwit1234]

10. It is up to Obama to go out and and fire up that base again

He'll have a harder time, because he seems to be appeasing republicans and the base is upset. BUT HE can do it. He has got to. If he does we might even take some of the most hateful republicans seats from them.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Prophet 451]

13. Of course they will

The whole Ken Starr inquiry started out as an inquiry into Vince Foster's death IIRC and turned into an endless fishing expeditition to find something, anything, to impeach Clinton for. In the end, Monica was all they could find (and forget the "it was the lying" bullshit, they were planning the impeachment before he ever appeared before a grand jury).

While there wasn't a conspiracy as such, there was a generally understood aim to remove Clinton from office by any means necessary. The country had no right to vote for a Democrat and therefore, he was illegitimate by default and any efforts to remove him (by any means) were not just justified but required. David Brock explains the mentality very well in Blinded By The Right and since then, the right has only grown in it's feelings of entitlement.

[hulka38]

14. deleted

posted in the wrong place

[NJmaverick]

15. K&R

[hulka38]

16. Clinton was not removed from office and the impeachment

was the demise of Newt and the Republican's power. The American people were very unhappy with the Republicans for this. The American people would not tolerate another bogus impeachment of a President, especially with the serious problems that they know they're facing.

[WeDidIt]

18. But the impeachment was partially responsible for the climate during the 2000 race

which allowed George W. Bush to become president.

And it's the presidency they want. It's all that matters.

[hulka38]

21. You think the impeachment of Clinton helped Bush become President.

I don't think that's true at all.

[WeDidIt]

22. It's ABSOLUTELY true

Gore distanced himself from Clinton because of impeachment.

Gore chose Lieberman because of impeachment.

Those two simple facts did more to put Bush in office than ten Naders could have.

[HughMoran]

23. You're right

Revisionist history doesn't cut it.

[hulka38]

28. If that is true then it was Gore's reaction to impeachment that was decisive

in allowing Bush to gain office and not the impeachment itself. His distancing himself from Clinton was a mistake. These were errors by Gore. But even so, Gore should have won without controversy. He ran a terrible campaign. The impeachment of Clinton had nothing to do with candidate Gore coming across unfavorably to the American people which was a far more important factor than Lieberman. The same errors don't have to be made again. This is where free will enters into the argument. And the errors of the Gore campaign wrt impeachment should not have been decisive in the first place.

[WeDidIt]

29. Wrong again

His reaction was completely poll driven. Though the American people disliked what the Republicans did, Clinton was toxic to the majority.

Also, had Gore chosen somebody who did not criticize Clinton as his running mate, he probably would have done even worse by a couple of points. Where the Lieberman choice really destroyed him, though, was during the recount.

Impeachment put Gore into a no win scenario.

[hulka38]

32. Other factors completely apart from the impeachment entered into Gore's failure

such as being a fairly unlikable candidate and someone that people had a hard time relating to.

It sounds like you are saying in the post above that the impeachment made it impossible for Gore to win the Presidency. That no matter what he did he was doomed.


*edited to put the letter "a" into the word apart and to say Go Hawks - they're looking great.

[WeDidIt]

36. That is what I'm saying.

Impeachment guaranteed there would be no victory for Clinton's Veep.

[hulka38]

42. If "Impeachment guaranteed there would be no victory for Clinton's Veep"

as you say, then Gore had to have run the perfect campaign to win the popular vote and come up just short. Gore lost the election by the narrowest margin in our country's history. It's hard to imagine a closer result could ever happen again. And yet we all know how flawed his campaign was. You're saying that no matter what Gore did he was doomed because of the impeachment. Gore ran a very imperfect campaign and still should have won. There was massive room for improvement that would have carried over into votes. Any number of things or combination of things could have put Gore over the top starting with not acting like a pompous ass in the second debate. The 2000 election was not a foregone conclusion due to Clinton's impeachment.

[fishwax]

60. Clinton was toxic to the majority? His approval ratings were well above 50% throughout his 2nd term

and were hovering around 60% for most of 2000. Gore's decision to distance himself from Clinton was a strategic error.

[karynnj]

47. You do not know what the alternative would have been

The fact was that although Clinton's job approval remained high, his personal popularity at that point fell. A very significant part of the population really did have Clinton fatigue - even as they said he did a good job. Gore likely made mistakes in his campaign. There are mistakes in EVERY campaign. If you win, they are airbrushed out. If you lose, they become the whole narrative. 2000 was a much harder year for the Democrats than 1992, where you had a President who in teh election year had an approval rating that went from 40 to 33. In addition, there was Perot,who was slamming Bush every single day.

I know from doing some phone banking that there were registered Democrats or Independents (the only people we called) who were on the fence and who cited Gore's strong, unwavering support for Clinton during impeachment as why they were leaning to Bush. I countered with talk of Gore's long marriage to his high school sweetheart and reminded them that when picked by Clinton, the description of Gore was that of an eagle scout.

Where I think Clinton did hurt was Gore's perception of the need to send a strong message of honor and decency by picking Lieberman. It didn't work - Bush still ran on that, much as Obama often successfully ran "against Bush" rather than McCain. So, he got a dyspeptic, uninspiring VP, who managed to let Cheney look like a kindly grandfather in the debate. A stronger, better debater and a much more charismatic choice could have made the difference - especially as Lieberman might have helped only in Florida.

[StevieM]

54. I think the decisive factor was that Gore talked about going to Texas with the Director of FEMA,

when it turns out he went with the Deputy director of FEMA, and the media made him out to be some sort of mentally ill, pathological liar.

Steve

[HughMoran]

19. Would you place a bet on the Republicans not pursuing every avenue available to them

...in order to 'take down' the 'regime'?

The loaded language speaks volumes - these people will stop at nothing to prove they're right in the names they use. You know the Republicans NEVER admit they are wrong, they just keep boring in until they are either thrown out of power or they get some measure of revenge. These are NOT logical people for the most part.

[hulka38]

25. I think they'd consider every possibility.

I think there would be a lot of pressure from the tea bag groups to do it. But I also think that if all they had were flimsy and non-arguments that were already tried and resoundingly rejected by the American people that the Republicans in Congress would try to undermine the President in other ways aside from impeachment.

[HughMoran]

26. As I said "every avenue available to them" - up to and including impeachment

They would if they could...

[hulka38]

30. You said they'd pursue taking down the regime.

I think they'd consider it but would not act due to concerns for self preservation.

[HughMoran]

31. We're not that far apart

It's all a matter of intent (which we agree on) and what they can get away with - which is dependent on factors beyond our control. You know they would if they could - unlike Democrats who would rather beat you on ideas over policy.

[hulka38]

33. Yes, I think they'd like to. But crossing that threshold and going full board into

taking down the regime is another matter. And I completely disagree with "you KNOW they'll do it" in the OP

[HughMoran]

34. The hyperbole stirs the emotions

We need that kind of energy to motivate people to VOTE this fall. I don't have a problem with it.

[hulka38]

37. Hyperbole is what you're left with if your base isn't sufficiently motivated

to go to the polls because of they're unhappy with policy decisions. I don't think hyperbole, which is essentially false, is going to motivate the liberal base anyway. It's more effective with tea baggers and centrists.

[WeDidIt]

38. You're leaving a group out of those that will be motivated

Those who will be motivated to vote in a presidential election but never in a mid-term.

[hulka38]

39. So you are admitting that your OP was hyperbole for the sake

of motivation?

[WeDidIt]

40. No comment n/t

[HughMoran]

41. You're admitting that you're naive?

Isn't that what a high percentage of posts here are intended to do?

[hulka38]

43. I always thought it was hyperbole.

I see it a lot. But I didn't think I'd get you two to admit it.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hulka38]

49. I'm not implying anything. I'm saying that I agree with you

that the OP is hyperbole which is something that you've said. I don't know why that upsets you so much. But I'm glad to see that emotion can bring out some honesty.

[HughMoran]

50. backing away

from "I didn't think I'd get you two to admit it" - that's an underhanded personal attack and you know it!

[hulka38]

51. "-that's an underhanded personal attack and you know it!"

Not at all. It's about getting you to acknowledge the motivation and intent behind your defense of, and in the case of WeDidIt, the creation of a hyperbolic OP. You could have saved everybody some time by admitting it before post #40 or whatever it was. But in the end as long as people know who the admitted hyperbolic posters are I suppose it's a plus.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

52. You don't know the American people very well, do you....

They were opposed to impeachment last time, and the people punished the Republicans by handing them the White House and even larger majorities in Congress.

Shit.

The Republicans will do it again in a heartbeat.

[Hippo_Tron]

63. Republicans lost seats in both 1998 and 2000

And technically they didn't win the presidency in 2000. But that's beside the point. I think the point is that the Republicans are foolish enough to believe that it will work this time even though it backfired last time.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

65. Speaker of the House Gephardt?

And they all lived happily ever after...

[Hippo_Tron]

73. You said "even larger majorities in congress"

That is completely inaccurate. The Republicans lost House seats in both 1998 and 2000 and 1998 was an off year election with a Democratic White House so they were expected to win seats. They lost lost five Senate seats in 2000, nearly losing control of the Senate. So while Dems did not win back Congress, they did pick up seats.

[Dr Morbius]

24. Every election matters. Every election is important.

Every chance we get to take power back for the people, we need to jump on it. Because every chance THEY get to take more power away from the people, they're gonna.

Voting is a right. Voting is a privilege. Voting - informed voting - is a duty.

[slackmaster]

27. I'd be very disapointed in them if they didn't

In our inherently adversarial system, it's their responsibility, just as it was Democrats' responsibility to try to undermine the George W. Bush administration for eight years.

Some of them will use dirty tactics like attacking Obama's origins, his manner of speech, his level of experience, his personal appearance, his family. They'll distribute every unflattering photo of him they can find far and wide, even make him look like a chimpanzee; just as some of us did to Bush.

And those of us who have grown skins thick enough for the world of politics, it will be very entertaining. Those of us who don't have the spine for it will whine incessantly about how unfair it all is.

[Dr Morbius]

35. We can have an adversarial system without personal attacks.

We really don't have to sink to that level. There's no need for it.

[slackmaster]

58. Yes, that would be great

:hi:

[karynnj]

44. The fact is that Clinton GAVE them something to use

He did, in fact, lie - or at minimum - not tell the whole truth under oath. Remember that one question was whether they were ever alone together in the same room. He very likely did coach Bettie Currie before her testimony. Read the words of the Senate Democrats in their speeches on this. They all felt the transgressions did not rise to high crimes and misdemeanors, but they all admitted the seriousness of those actions. It was the coverup that angered most of them - though, for Democrats, who had pushed through strong rules on sexual harassment in the work place, there was no defense of his affair.

Clinton's actions likely helped bring us Bush. A man who was a mean drunk until age 40 was able to say he would bring honor and decency back to the White House. This was said often - so I assume it did well in focus groups.

[IndianaGreen]

46. Bill Clinton received an electoral mandate in 1996

which he pissed away because he couldn't keep his pants zipped, and because he perjured himself to a federal grand jury.

[karynnj]

48. Nice succinct restatement of what I said

It hurts to think what Bill Clinton could have done in office if he did not have the character flaws that he has.

[ima_sinnic]

53. is this the obligatory "be scared if the repukes get elected" thread?

sorry, fear no longer works for me.
I will vote for the most progressive and MOST ANTI-DLC candidates, those who will work for We The People instead of for big corporations whose a$$es they kiss.
After being burned on several issues by the current crop of "democrats," I'm in no hurry to vote for any evil, lesser or otherwise, as a knee-jerk reaction to "what the repukes would do if in office."
they have no impeachable issues on which to work against Obama, and the public was not happy about the way they treated Clinton.

[scheming daemons]

66. If you're not "scared if the repukes get elected", then you haven't been paying attention

...

[CakeGrrl]

68. +1000. But I fully believe that some here wouldn't mind it happening

nonetheless, because from what I've read in some of these comments, the need to spite him outweighs the concern over a Republican takeover.

The political parties have a habit of imploding from within.

[StevieM]

56. I think a government shutdown is more likely. They'll impeach him in his second term (eom)

[totodeinhere]

57. I don't think it has anything to do with an African American president.

They did it to Clinton, and he was white, and if Obama were white they would still be doing it to him.

[treestar]

59. You're right

The House has to remain Democratic.

We've already seen that some of them (Wilson) can't even sit there with a black president at the podium without losing it.

[annabanana]

67. Of course they will. There is not a doubt in my mind. The Scorched Earth

policy introduced by Newt, and enabled by the early "college republicans" is still in full force.

[gravity]

69. They won't impeach Obama unless he does something wrong first

The Republicans aren't all powerful. They need a good reason to impeach someone or else they just look like someone out to de-legitimize the first black president. It will backfire on the Republicans because it would be clear that they were playing partisan politics.

It took them 6 years to find real legal grounds to impeach Bill Clinton and even then, it has nothing with the way he governed.

The biggest concern about the Republicans taking control of Congress is that they will stall Obama's agenda and be obstructionist.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

71. Exactly making Barack Obama the most successful he can be is the most liberal thing to do increasing

human decency to one another is the way to go, as it forces the right to aclimatize. Look at the reaction to the AZ law, that only came about to the elevated thinking the President's election brought. Greater humanity, leads to greater peace, leads to a greener planet because once we get it right with ourselves all that's left is to save the planet we all equally share.