Republican Mormons in Utah boo Romney putting the final nail in his Presidential aspirations

[grantcart]

Over the last few months the question has been debated about Romney as a future Presidential nominee.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/288


Those of us who were raised in conservative homes with strong church backgrounds have never really taken him seriously.

The reason for that is that regular conservative Christians harbor significant animus against Mormons. The feel that the Book of Mormon is a nonsensical addition to Christian literature and the fact that they send their Seminary students off to learn Hebrew and Greek to read the original sacred texts is mocked by a cynical cult that is based on a written document that has been 'fetched' by angels.

But it is more than that. Mormons have a particular rectruitment strategy that is a permanent source of antagonism to other Christians. If you look around you will find that most Mormon churches are located in very close proximity to high schools. Mormons pack their church with after hour activites in order to keep their children seperated and occupied. It is also a very clever way to bring in other Christians and poach their membership.

The fact that Mormons are actively trying to increase their numbers by poaching children of other churches is, as you can imagine, a frequently discussed and emotional discussion in thousands of evangelical Churches in the US.

Add to that the history of the Mormon Church and the fact that from the begining Joseph Smith sought to elect a Mormon President of the US to confirm their legitimacy means that there are sizeable numbers of conservative Christians that would rather vote for Obama than elect a Mormon President. My father was a great guy who also believed "better dead than red". He would support Fidel Castro for President before he would support a Mormon. (Full disclosure my father's great great uncle was President of the Mormon Church and that fellow's father was the first mayor of SLC - but apostate Mormon families are a significant source of anti Mormon evangelical fuel).

Now let's add to it other realities:

1) Of the last 5 Presidents before Obama 4 were sitting Governors and the one that wasn't was a sitting Vice President.

2) In recent history no one who has run and failed at getting the primary has come back and won the nomination in an open contest (You can't count Reagan's run against Ford because Ford was a sitting President and after the nomination Reagan was perceived as the real winner. You can't count Bush Sr. because he lost the nomination battle to Reagan and then was handed the nomination as a sitting Vice President.)

The logic is pretty clear - if Romney couldn't defeat McCain who was an ineffectual candidate how can he be expected to beat Obama - who McCain lost to? Moreover Romney finished third after Huckabee in delegates.

3) No candidate has more documented YouTube moments where he absolutely contradicts previously bedrock policies than Romney.

4) The Republicans don't have a long extended primary season. Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina is just about it. Then the powers to be, and the money comes together and falls into line.

Romney spent $7 million in Iowa in 2008 and finished a very weak 2nd. Evangelicals control the Republican caucuses in Iowa. Romney has moved to NH and may do well there. In South Carolina Romney just barely edged out Thompson to get third place with a measly 14% of the vote.




But if that hasn't convinced you then consider the following news report.

Romney goes to Utah (the state that he did the best in for obvious reasons) and begs them to send Bennett to the primary.

Romney is laughed out of the room and Senator Bennett is sent packing.

Nobody in the Republican Party in Utah is listening to Mitt Romney and if he can't get Republican Mormons to listen to him in Utah then no one in the party is listening to Mitt Romney.

From the Mormon news service reporting on Romney's embarassing performance

http://www.deseretnews.com/mobile/article/700030688/GOP-candidates-make-final-pleas.html

"We need Bob Bennett's skill and intellect and power," Romney said. He called Bennett a man whom "America and Utah cannot afford to lose." But Romney and Bennett were met with some boos from the floor.

. . .

Bennett, who happens to be a former LDS bishop and is a grandson of former LDS President Heber J. Grant, said that he knows it comes from out of state. "They misspelled Utahns on the back page. It has a postmark from Cleveland. I think (the flier) helped me today. This is just more out-of-state people trying to tell Utahns how to vote."

And from the blogs

http://mittromney2012potus.blogspot.com/2010/05/sen-bob-bennett-was-thrown-out-of.html

BREAKING NEWS: Mitt Romney failed to bolster Senator Robert Bennett. Romney felted he was widely popular in Utah and his support would drive home a win at the Utah State GOP Convention. Early reports today stated Romney was not well liked by many of the Utah delegates and there was a strong possibility of Bennett’s defeat.

Romney’s lack of influence at Utah’s GOP may foretell future decline of political influence for Mitt Romney. After all if Mitt lacks influence in Utah of all places, it was felt a loss in Utah for Mitt, may signal a decline in Mitt’s national influence.


http://mittromney2012potus.blogspot.com/2010/05/sen-bob-bennett-was-thrown-out-of.html

“SALT LAKE CITY – Republican Sen. Bob Bennett was thrown out of office Saturday by delegates at the Utah GOP convention in what represents a stunning defeat for a once-popular three-term incumbent who fell victim to a growing conservative movement nationwide.

Bennett's failure to make it into Utah's GOP primary — let alone win his party's nomination — makes him the first congressional incumbent to be ousted this year and demonstrates the difficult challenges candidates are facing from the right in 2010.”

This is a horrendous defeat for Romney.

[Xipe Totec]

1. a nonsensical addition to Christian literature...

Savor the irony...

[CrispyQ]

8. I chuckled at that too!

}(

[elocs]

2. Conservative Christians, evangelicals, will never support a Mormon for president.

To them Mormonism is a cult, it is of the devil. They sincerely believe that they will answer to God if they were to support a Mormon. Republicans need every vote they can get and cannot afford to offend the Christians, the evangelicals.

So if Romney does not have the Mormons, then he is out of luck.

[Andy823]

5. Ye, but

Look at all the ones who support Glen Beck! Could Beck be able to sway some of them to actually vote for a Mormon? I know on another board during the 2008 elections many of the so called Christians did vote for Romney in the primary and Rush Limbaugh urged his followers to vote for him also instead of McCain! My mother in law was going to vote for McCain till Rush told her not to, and when we asked her who she voted for, she said "the guy Rush told me to vote for"! It took her over a day to remember his name, but it was Romney!

Beck is a Mormon, so what gives?

[elocs]

22. No buts. When push comes to shove conservative, evangelical Christians will not vote for a Mormon.

Although they will not vote for a Mormon, particularly for President, they will however mindlessly vote for whomever Rush tells them to cast their votes.

[Andy823]

24. What about Beck?

Will he be pushing candidates in November, and what about 2012, will he be able to influence all the "Christians" who listen to him to vote the way he "suggests" they should vote?

[elocs]

41. I'm not saying they will not support the ideas, but they will not actually VOTE for a Mormon.

That's the difference.

[roguevalley]

28. my sister-in-law's church gave her a tract on mormonism and it

started, "if you had a friend who was bound to end up in Hell for eternity, what would you do?" THen it went on to 'explain' mormonism. That church is lutheran by the way. I am inundated with Mormom Missionaries. If mitt can't win in Utah, he's over.

[Tarheel_Dem]

3. I never saw the attraction, but then I never looked for it. Goodbye Mitt..

& goodbye Mr. Bennett.

[Andy823]

4. Isn't it amazing though

That like you said Christians can't stand Mormons yet I find so many who claim to be "Christians" who listen to Glen Beck and hang on his every word, who defend this guy no matter what, and when you mention the fact that the guy is a "MORMON" they get mad as hell and say you are just trying to make them stop listening to him and attack you for any negative thing he says, like the time he told them to "leave" their church if their church advocated social justice! They would follow this clown anywhere, believe anything the idiot says, yet the wouldn't let a Mormon in their home if they came to their door, let alone allow the Mormons to come back day after day for an hour to brainwash them!

[safeinOhio]

9. Most Christian sects

think all the others are going to hell. They all think only they have the right interpretation on the scriptures. You'd thing they would figure out that there is something wrong with a book that has thousands of different "correct" meanings.

[Andy823]

23. True.

You can pretty much pick scriptures here and there to make the Bible support whatever you wan it to, that and a lot of gullible people are what cults look for.

[HereSince1628]

6. I grew up LDS, never saw "poaching of children" and never saw churches near High Schools

I did serve on a couple of building committees, and the guiding philosophy on siting a building was to try to get a prominent placement in the community. Hilltops were sometimes suggested, but so were corners in subdivisions. I never saw or heard anything about putting branch or ward meeting house near a High Schools, middle school or grade school. Not saying that hasn't happened, because a HS could also be located in a prominent position, and open athletic fields can create vistas that could also make a building prominent. But, I'm very skeptical about an article that pushes the anti-mormon sentiment so far that it reaches for fear.

[Drunken Irishman]

10. I see churches near high schools all the time!

I live in Utah, though. They're on every block it seems.

There is also seminary, which is located on every HS campus. Seminary is where Mormons kids get to go learn about their faith during school hours.

[HereSince1628]

14. Yes, seminary classes are often in HS in Utah, not so true

out in the rest of the world where LDS population density is low. Seminary is often in the ward or branch meeting house, because it is more central to the congregation than a HS. I recognize that proselytizing goes on at all levels, but I don't think children are targeted. I did read and I heard church authorities suggest targeting families with new babies, families with recent family traumas.

I've got my own reasons for walking away in my early twenties and the LDS church has flaws only an insider could understand fully, but this article seems to not generalize very well, even if it's like this in communities throughout "Deseret"

I never lived in Utah, never saw how the church functioned where it was a competitively dominant religion. But, I suspect it still comes down to prominent placement in the communities that are served. Catholic and Protestant denominations do the same thing all over the midwest. We don't have many Mosques or Synagogues so I'm reluctant to make a generalizing statement about them.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. I think non-Utah Mormon folk rock.

Most LDS people I get along with aren't originally from Utah. The Utah Mormons, though, are completely different than their counterparts outside the state. Much of this is because they've not really been out in the real world. They've never had to interact with other people of faith. They fear change more than anyone I've ever known and are so conservative, Hitler himself would question their political leanings.

I mean, look at the Udall family or Harry Reid. Mormons who aren't entirely insane.

But it's not right to say the Mormons don't have a huge stranglehold on the government here. We were taught LDS history more than Utah history in some of the classes I took over the years.

That isn't to say you don't get the same dominance in other states. However, I think it's at an entirely different level here. Maybe you can go back to the 40s, 50s and 60s when the WASP/Catholics dominated NE politics - but even then, I doubt decisions were made based on religious doctrine.

Remember, Utah was the last state to ban the firing squad because it's believed by the LDS Church that blood must be spilled to atone for your sins.

[pnwmom]

18. Yes -- they do target families with traumas. My m.i.l. was targeted both

after her mother died, and after her husband died -- even though they knew she was a practicing Catholic and her relatives had Catholic burial services.

[pnwmom]

17. The Mormon facility here is just a block a way from an elementary, and two

blocks from a high school. None of them are in particularly prominent or convenient places, and the public schools were built decades before the Mormon building.

[grantcart]

19. It depends on the building code in the area

In many areas you will find the Mormon Steak as close as possible to the HS.

In Carlsbad CA it is across the street from the HS and they have offered the adjoining lot next to it 3 times the current value to buy it but the owner hates Mormons and will not sell.

Regarding poaching.

Kids are encouraged to invite their friends to the Boy Scouts etc that meet at the Church. The Mormons may consider it as just being friendly but the members of the other churches perceive it as poaching.

[HereSince1628]

40. I think you meant 'stake' as in tent stake for the Tabernacle

Although there may also be mormon owned Steak Houses close to high schools.

I completely accept the notion that 'poaching' is in the eye of the beholder. I think that's probably the best way to understand what was posted in the OP.

As a kid in the 50's and 60's in the midwest it seemed that most of my school class did scouting without a church affiliation, but LDS adopted scouting as THE social organization for kids, and I think every branch or ward I attended had a functioning scout troop even if it was tiny.

[Better Today]

7. I fear you over-estimate the power of Mormons in one state to set him off his game.

I personally hope he is not the presidential candidate, because I see him as one that could really give Obama a run for his money. JMO.

[Drunken Irishman]

11. Romney is an empty suit.

He poses no risk because when you start to actually get beneath the first layer, you find there is nothing there. This is what killed him in the primaries. He didn't lose because he was LDS (it's not like people who said he was their no. one choice in Iowa and NH prior to him losing his lead didn't know his faith). He lost because when you actually get to the substance part of the debate, he failed. He failed miserably because he couldn't defend his past actions and looked totally out of his league.

[Better Today]

13. Perhaps. However I disagree, I think he could give many something

to think about if he can get out of the primary. So I guess I see your point in that he won't make it out of the primary if the extremists still have control of Repubs in 2011-2012, but if by some chance he gets through the primaries, I think many dissatisfied with Obama's admin will look at Romney as an alternative with a record they can live with.

[grantcart]

20. Utah was the state that he scored the highest in

Not only is it the state with the most Mormons he was considered a hero there for saving the Winter Olympics.

More important is that Romney cannot do well in Iowa and South Carolina and a mediocre win in NH is not going to convince anyone of anything.

[Pirate Smile]

31. Plus there is the entire Romneycare = Obamacare and Mitt is pro-mandate which is going

to be a killer in a Republican nomination fight. :evilgrin:

[davidpdx]

34. So Grant, who is the alternative if you had to play devil's advocate?

(and I know you want to!)

[grantcart]

36. Already have lol

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/grantcart/288

I predict that it will probably Gov Daniels of IN

Currently popular Governor of Indiana with approval around 70%

Certainly would do very well in Iowa, and well in NH and SC.

Also as Governor he will entire into the race without a lot of national negatives, having avoided the nasty national fighting on national issues.

Whoever the Republicans nominate will get beat but be in the driver's seat for 2016 nomination

Another possibility is Gov. Rounds of SD who would also do well in Iowa and SC.

more at the link.

It will not be Romney, Huckabee, Palin or Gingrich. Remember 4 years ago nobody knew either Obama or Palin.

[ClarkUSA]

12. Fascinating. Thanks for filling us in.

Not all Christian conservatives dislike Romney, though. Recently, when Sarah Palin was asked what she thought of being on a 2012 ticket, she replied that a Romney/Palin ticket sounded good. And he regularly does well in CPAC straw polls. Not sure what's up there, except that business conservatives love him as he is one of them.

[pnwmom]

15. Rather humorous to think that EVANGELICALS are worried about the "poaching"

of their children by Mormons -- since their whole point of being is to poach from other denominations and religions.

We live in an area with plenty of both, and it is the Evangelicals who were constantly inviting our (Catholic) children to attend their vacation bible school and other church activities.

[Andy823]

25. I also wonder

How many of them that are so worried about the Mormons "poaching" their children watch Glen Beck everyday!

[cliffordu]

21. Are they gonna run Jeb and Apocalypse Barbie????

WTF do they have left???

:rofl:

[fishwax]

26. for the record, I don't think points 1 and 2 are correct

1) Of the last 5 Presidents before Obama 4 were sitting Governors and the one that wasn't was a sitting Vice President.

I think only shrub and Clinton were sitting governors. Reagan's term in California and Carter's in Georgia both ended in 1975, so neither of them was governor while campaigning for the nomination.

2) In recent history no one who has run and failed at getting the primary has come back and won the nomination in an open contest (You can't count Reagan's run against Ford because Ford was a sitting President and after the nomination Reagan was perceived as the real winner. You can't count Bush Sr. because he lost the nomination battle to Reagan and then was handed the nomination as a sitting Vice President.)

McCain failed to get the nomination in 2000 and then got it in 2008. Dole got the nod in '96 after losing it in '88. McCain is a little bit different since the candidate he lost to in the primary went on to win. But Dole was nominated to face Clinton despite the fact that he lost to the guy Clinton beat in the first place.

Actually, Republicans have a history of giving the bid to previous campaign losers after one term of democratic rule: Dole after Clinton's first term in 1996, Reagan after Carter's first term in 1980, and Nixon (who lost a general election rather than a primary) after LBJ's first elected term.

As for the point about Romney's youtube moments, though, I can't argue with you there.

And as to Romney's faceplant in Utah, what else can one say but :rofl:

[grantcart]

38. here in more detail

I didn't want to get too mired in detail but both Reagan and Carter were Governors in 1975 when they started their campaign. Both in a sense won. Carter the nomination and President and Reagan took on a sitting President and almost forced him out. When the election was over he had won the head of the party.


On point two I was a little sloppy. Of course many people have come back and run again, they just never win.

No candidate has failed, in the last 80 years, to lose the nomination in a year where there was an open field (meaning without either a sitting President or Vice President) and then returned in another year to get the nomination and win the Presidency. Basically you get one chance to win the nomination and win the Presidency. Now if you are taking on a sitting President like Reagan did and lose narrowly that is something very different. You could make a good case that Reagan so weakened Ford that he was responsible for his defeat.

[ruggerson]

27. Uhhh... McCain kind of demolishes point 2

[saltpoint]

29. Willard & Bob's not so excellent adventure.

You sent word of the execution by GOP firing squad prior to the confab in Utah, grantcart, and thus it is so.

Great series of posts.

Thank you.

[WeDidIt]

30. For all intents and purposes, Glenn Beck is the new Prophet

and Beck hates Romney.

Romney will be lucky if they don't excommunicate his ass.

[Cha]

46. ..

OT..pertinent sig line.

[saltpoint]

32. There's going to be something of a back alley knife tussle no matter

what when the GOP primary season starts to roll around.

If Romney is unable to win the nomination and Huck doesn't wish to run, that means one of the other thieves, con men, con women, nutbags, theocrats, and fools will be inside the zone of consideration.

(If Romney were somehow to win the nomination, he could double back on Utah and ask Bob Bennett to be his running mate. That would give a lot of Utah Puke voters a choice between someone they hounded out of office for no better reason than their own angry stupidity and Barack Hussein Obama.)

Romney must know at this point that he will have to somehow overcome the Mormon thing and the "I was pretty liberal when I was in Massachusetts" thing. Between the two, not even his truly fat wallet can assure him frontrunner status.

Huckabee's Sunday preacher charm is slick icing over the toxic cupcake of his Far Right ideology. IMO he is a very dangerous man. There is a flippant and judgmental vein running through him that I instantly distrust.

Palin has gotten rich on being stupid this past year or two. She could drop out of politics and count her new money or mess up the GOP field just enough to deny someone else secure footing. She can also bolt and run as a third party burn-the-Constitution candidate. Her campaign posters could promote her as an independent, self-reliant frontier gal, decked out in catalog-ordered outdoors attire with several wolf pelts slung over her shoulder.

The rest of the GOP field is almost too horrifying to imagine. Mike Pence. Newt Gingrich. George Pataki. Rick Santorum. Haley Barbour. It's a macabre roster of authoritarian ghouls.

I'm happy enough to see Romney suffer a political setback. There just any light at all coming thru on the Republican side for 2012.

[craigmatic]

33. I hate to nit pick this article but only bush 43 and Clinton were sitting governors when elected.

Carter and reagan were former governors when elected president.

[grantcart]

37. I didn't want to get too detailed but my point basically was that they were either

sitting Governors or recent governors when they started campaigning. Carter only being out 2 years when he won the nomination and the Presidency and Reagan only 2 years when he took on Ford and lost but became the defacto head of the party.

Romney will have been an ex governor for 5 years by the time 2012 runs around and no longer resides in the state he ran.

Huckabee will be in the same boat, neither will be the nominee.

[craigmatic]

44. I agree after Obama's healthcare bill Romney has no chance due to the simularity with the MA law.

Huckabee has the convict he pardoned killing somebody as a scandal plus he has a nice job on faux. The more likely choice is a blue state repub because let's face it they can win the south with anybody. Patacki would really be a threat.

[davidpdx]

35. Mitty the Mormon gettting rejected already

What a slap in the face. I guess we should feel sorry for him. Nope, guess not.

[opihimoimoi]

39. MITT IS UNFITT

[old mark]

42. Wasn't he the #1 choice at the Republathon a month or so ago?

And now he's done?
Going to be a pretty interesting time after the election this fall - I think there will be many many more recriminations and blame passing to the real woe of the GOP - they spawned the 'baggers and not the 'Baggers are tearing them apart.

Very funny, really - if we can keep enough Democrats together to actually win some elections...:shrug:

mark

[grantcart]

43. Those staged conventions are completely unreliable.

Didn't he just edge out Ron Paul?

[old mark]

47. Evidently they are - Ron was second, IIRC, but not very close to the Mitt...

I think the right may have more candidates than they need, none of whom will be getting a lot of votes.

mark

[Peacetrain]

45. The right has put itself on life support because of their splintering..

[Phx_Dem]

48. I love it when dog torturers get boo'd.

I'd like to do a lot more than boo him. I'd like to strap his coiffed ass to the top of my car and make a 1200 mile trip to Canada, just like he did with his dog.

Fucker.

[zulchzulu]

49. Obama would handily beat Romney in 2012 by a dozen % points

The Religious Right would offer up a Third-party candidate than vote for a Mormon... there are also right-wing conservatives who are very suspicious of Romney based on his past support for gay rights, abortion and being even from Massachusetts.

Independents might split on their votes.

Bu when it really gets down to it, Romney may have money but he's a generally weak candidate.

Romney/Palin! :rofl: