moondust
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Sun May-09-10 05:40 PM
Original message |
CBS News on Kagan: "She brought a lot of young conservatives onto the (Harvard) faculty." |
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(Reported enthusiastically Sunday evening.)
Ugh.
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Kurt_and_Hunter
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Sun May-09-10 05:43 PM
Response to Original message |
1. Well... it's diversity. |
Teaser
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Sun May-09-10 05:48 PM
Response to Original message |
2. to be fair, as an academic |
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it wasn't her job to ensure that the department be progressive.
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moondust
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Sun May-09-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
3. I think it's a question of judgement. |
NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
4. right, this has nothing to do with fairness |
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I mean we would be screaming bloody murder if right wingers had a position of authority and abused it by hiring only right wingers. Oh wait we did that when Bush remade the Justice Department as a right wing hit machine.
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moondust
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Sun May-09-10 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #4 |
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"She brought a lot of young John Yoos and Monica Goodlings onto the Harvard faculty."
Good sign?
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NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
6. So you are saying that one should abuse their position of authority to |
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push a political agenda in a non-political job. I can't agree with that idea.
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dsc
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Sun May-09-10 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #6 |
7. Ms. Goodling was utterly unqualified |
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regardless of ideology. She went to a no name law school and had no discernable qualifications to make up for that fact. I have no problem with hiring conservatives for the Harvard faculty but I have a big problem hiring incompetent hacks.
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alcibiades_mystery
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Sun May-09-10 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
9. I don't see where they said the hires were incompetent |
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I agree, as somebody who has sat on search committees for academic jobs: the qualifications should be the top priority. It was somebody who opposed Ms. Kagan who brought up Ms. Goodling, in any case. I know - as do you - that Ms. Goodling would not be hired to teach law at Harvard. I doubt Mr. Yoo would either, though Stanford DID hire HIM, and Stanford Law is nothing to sneeze at.
:-)
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NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
13. Ms Goodling is not on the Harvard staff |
MidwestTransplant
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Sun May-09-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
15. and she never will be |
Atticus
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Sun May-09-10 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
29. I'm sorry, but since Stanford basically abandoned integrity as a prerequistie |
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for its law school faculty and did, indeed, hire John "Anything for a Buck" Yoo, it is very much something to be sneezed at---and snickered at---and discounted as a "prestigious" law school.
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alcibiades_mystery
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Sun May-09-10 07:33 PM
Response to Reply #29 |
NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
10. She wasn't on the Harvard faculty, so I am not sure what your point is |
dsc
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Sun May-09-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #10 |
16. You defended the notion of hiring a young Monica Goodling |
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and in point of fact you stated that refusing to do so would be an abuse of power.
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Pholus
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Sun May-09-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
17. Refusing to hire on the basis of political belief is an abuse of power! |
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Goodling is not qualified. Forcing bright young students to endure her class might be a worthwhile educational experience though...
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dsc
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Sun May-09-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #17 |
18. I agree that using ideology alone to refuse to hire is wrong |
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but competence matters. I have no idea if she hired competent or incompetent conservatives.
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NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. Yet Kagan is being attacked for refusing to hire based on ideology |
moondust
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Sun May-09-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
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In the first place she is not being attacked. More specifically she is not being attacked for refusing to hire based on ideology. There is ample reason for concern and further investigation when this OP is added to this post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8301997&mesg_id=8301997
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dsc
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Sun May-09-10 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #23 |
26. that honestly is a big problem |
NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #16 |
19. Seriously?!?! I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. I said we were angry when those sort of hirings were done |
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Edited on Sun May-09-10 07:01 PM by NJmaverick
by the Bush Justice Department and now this thread is turning around and demanding Kagan do the EXACT SAME THING only hiring liberals
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alcibiades_mystery
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Sun May-09-10 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
8. Were they qualified for the positions? |
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Monica Goodling, I'm guessing not so much.
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NJmaverick
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Sun May-09-10 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
12. Goodling wasn't hired so what's your point???? |
alcibiades_mystery
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Sun May-09-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #12 |
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The qualifications are the only thing that matters. In this case, I suspect the hires were qualified. What's your point?
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Name removed
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Sun May-09-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
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Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
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CTLawGuy
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Mon May-10-10 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #5 |
36. all onservatives != Monica Goodling/John Yoo |
Pholus
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Sun May-09-10 06:19 PM
Response to Original message |
11. I won't say this is bad yet... |
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Conservatives generally avoid academia since if they have any talent they can be well paid doing something else. Where do you think their saying that "Those who can, do. Those who can't teach." comes from? They don't have an innate understanding of the great returns in investing your talents into others and it isn't in their nature to help others for reasons other than hard compensation.
That makes them rare as hen's teeth. And really valuable.
Academia is still the marketplace of ideas. Conservative ideas are rare there by conservative self selection, but the rest of us need to have them represented just to show what utter BS they are.
So she is diligent in that aspect of her work.
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Alcibiades
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Sun May-09-10 07:10 PM
Response to Reply #11 |
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I'm a political scientist. In my field, political theory, there are scads of conservatives: I know because they trained me. Economics, business, many of the sciences have plenty of conservatives.
There are plenty more conservatives on campus than these folks would allow. They are not rare as hen's teeth: in fact, the sheer number of right wing research funders make being a right wing social scientist something of a gold mine, so it's a growth industry.
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jefferson_dem
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Sun May-09-10 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
28. That's my experience also. |
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Edited on Sun May-09-10 07:38 PM by jefferson_dem
It's odd how conservatives tend to land in the political theory positions. Of course, there are typically only one or two theory positions in most political science departments which relegates those conservative theory folks to token "antagonist" status. Liberal political leanings definitely dominate, and I'm cool with that. Of course, we're supposed to be value-free social scientists anyway. :)
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Alcibiades
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Sun May-09-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #28 |
31. Plus the assumption that someone might be hired for politics |
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is ludicrous. The idea that a search committee would not hire a candidate who is qualified for the position and who is objectively better than other candidates on the basis of politics seems absurd.
The number of conservatives in political theory isn't too surprising, given that there's a super-secret, almost esoteric, network of folks who advocate not only for the hiring of their students, but also for the students of other folks in the super-secret, almost esoteric, network.
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jefferson_dem
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Sun May-09-10 06:27 PM
Response to Original message |
14. Conservatives on University faculty? |
Nicholas D Wolfwood
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Mon May-10-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
42. DU seems to manufacture new, previously unimaginable horrors on a daily basis. |
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Of course, all said horrors are strictly imaginary, but that's not the point.
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jeanpalmer
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Mon May-10-10 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
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if they didn't pimp themselves to the corporations for research dollars.
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tammywammy
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Sun May-09-10 07:19 PM
Response to Original message |
24. I have absolutely no problem with this n/t |
HughMoran
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Sun May-09-10 07:22 PM
Response to Original message |
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Can't beat 'em, join 'em!
:P
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IndianaGreen
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Sun May-09-10 11:12 PM
Response to Original message |
32. She hired a lot of white men |
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Her record on minorities was dismal.
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Aramchek
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Mon May-10-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #32 |
35. so Obama's picking a Racist?? Give us all a big break! |
phleshdef
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Sun May-09-10 11:21 PM
Response to Original message |
33. First off, political leanings shouldn't even be a topic when hiring someone for a faculty job. |
freddie mertz
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Mon May-10-10 08:07 AM
Response to Reply #33 |
38. Correct! It should and cannot be ethically asked. |
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Hiring on the basis of personal politics or religion, etc, is pretty much anathema in academic ethics.
Schools that do so tend to be right wing ones like Liberty, etc.
Certainly not at Harvard.
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impik
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Mon May-10-10 12:14 AM
Response to Original message |
34. Just like Obama did in Harvard Law Review. They're consensus builders |
Dinger
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Mon May-10-10 06:44 AM
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Starbucks Anarchist
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Mon May-10-10 12:41 PM
Response to Original message |
39. Multiple viewpoints in higher education? Noooo! |
Political Tiger
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Mon May-10-10 05:04 PM
Response to Original message |
40. You mean she should do like Bush did |
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which was to hire people who only shared his political views whether they were qualified for the job or not?
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QC
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Mon May-10-10 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
41. That approach could easily boomerang on her |
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and then what in the diddle would she do?
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