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The Case Against Kagan (Greenwald) Versus The Case For Kagan (Lessig) (VIDEO)

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 10:02 PM
Original message
The Case Against Kagan (Greenwald) Versus The Case For Kagan (Lessig) (VIDEO)
Terrific Maddow show tonight...very illuminating.

AGAINST (w/ Greenwald) - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#37074824

FOR (w/ Lessig) - http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#37074947

By the way...Lessig drank Greenwald's milkshake, imo.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for posting this.
I was very impressed with Professor Lessig, a self-admitted big fan of Greenwald. It's something I hope everyone sees before passing judgment.

K&R
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Cowpunk Donating Member (572 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Get the FACTS before passing judgement
Read the pdf of Kagan's Harvard law review article here.

Watch the video of Kagan's nomination hearing with Senator Graham here.

Then decide whose milkshake got slurped.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. We already have a poster who capitalizes FACTS.
There may be a copyright issue at play here....
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'l like to see a position for Lessig in this administration...
FCC, FTC, PTO, Commerce. He'd have much to offer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Lessig

:patriot:
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boppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-10-10 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. FCC, definitely.
The man understands media law at a breathtaking level.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 03:20 AM
Response to Original message
6. Lessig took Greenwald to school
Greenwald is just a wild-eyes ideologist.
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 06:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. Lessig drank Greenwald's milkshake?
Lessig stole Greenwald's oil? Or stole some other resource from Greenwald? Or more broadly, Lessig totally screwed Greenwald over in some other way?

I'm not sure you understand that quote, or Rachel Maddow's show, or Greenwald, or Lessig, or the case against Kagan, or the case for Kagan.

I think the one thing you understand is that Obama is good.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. A clue.
Edited on Tue May-11-10 06:22 AM by jefferson_dem
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. on second thought, maybe the quote is apt
maybe Lessig did drink Greenwald's milkshake, although Rachel might make Lessig give it back.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x294925
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Ha.
We'll see. :hi:
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
9. Fallout: Greenwald takes issue with Lessig's "spewing" of "total falsehoods".
Edited on Tue May-11-10 07:56 AM by jefferson_dem
How people spew total falsehoods on TV
By Glenn Greenwald

I appeared on The Rachel Maddow Show last night to articulate the case against Elena Kagan, and was then followed by Kagan friend and defender Larry Lessig of Harvard Law School, who spent five minutes (in my absence) trying to discredit me and what I said (video of the two segments is below). Although I would have preferred an opportunity to address the accusations Lessig was making about me through an interactive exchange, I was glad Rachel presented both sides of the debate. But there is one serious accusation that Lessig spouted that is so blatantly and inexcusably false that I feel compelled to highlight it, particularly since I was unable to respond last night. This is what Lessig said when referencing "this work had written when she wrote this piece for the Harvard Law Review" in 2001:

This is another area where Glenn has just flatly misstated the case. In his piece on Democracy Now on April 13, he said that in that article, she talked about the power of the President to indefinitely detain anyone around the world.

Now, that article was written before George Bush, before 9/11, and before George Bush articulated anything about this power. It has nothing to do with the power of the President to detain anybody. The power of the unitary executive that George Bush articulated -- this kind of uber power of unitary executive -- was nowhere even hinted at in Elena's article. Yet Glenn has repeatedly asserted that she is George Bush, and that is just flatly wrong.

If I were listening to that and had no familiarity with what I had written, I'd have thought: Wow, that Glenn Greenwald is either completely dishonest or a total idiot; how can he go around claiming that Kagan's 2001 law review article defended Bush detention policies when it was written before those policies were even implemented and had nothing to do with those policies? People questioning the Kagan pick obviously have no credibility. And that, of course, is exactly the impression Lessig's accusation was intended to create.

Except it's totally false. I've never said, believed or even hinted at any such thing -- let alone "repeatedly asserted" it. Lessig just made that up out of thin air and, knowing nobody was there to dispute it, unleashed it on national television. Kagan's comments embracing indefinite detention powers came in her 2008 Solicitor General confirmation hearing when answering Lindsey Graham: please see Law Professor Jonathan Turley's superb analysis on that exchange. Her position on detention was expressed there, not in her 2001 Law Review article, and -- contrary to Lessig' inexcusably false accusations -- I never, ever claimed otherwise. In fact, here is what I wrote about her 2001 law review article in "The Case Against Elena Kagan":

<SNIP>

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/05/11/lessig/index.html


Here's a partial transcript from the DemocracyNow segment. I understand why Greenwald wants to try to correct the record, but I'm afraid he is wrong.

"And what little there is to see comes from her confirmation hearing as Solicitor General and a law review article she wrote in 2001, in which she expressed very robust defenses of executive power, including the power of the president to indefinitely detain anybody around the world as an enemy combatant, based on the Bush-Cheney theory that the entire world is a battlefield and the US is waging a worldwide war."

http://www.democracynow.org/2010/4/13/glenn_greenwald_on_why_elena_kagan
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 07:53 AM
Response to Original message
10. Thanks for these excellent clips.
I don't agree with your tag line.... I still find myself "in the middle" on this.

I also noted that Greenwald had no horns and was not eating babies during his interview.

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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 08:01 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Ha.
No horns. Greenwald is a strong advocate and an intellectual mensch. I applaud him .... just take issue with him in this case, and a few others.
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Phx_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-11-10 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. Fun. I love seeing Greenwald put in his place. n/t
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