Protest Obama Speech at West Point

[rug]

At 10:00 AM on Saturday May 22, 2010 the Democratic Alliance will sponsor a pro-peace rally coinciding with President Obama's appearance at the West Point graduation. This is the seventh such rally sponsored by the Democratic Alliance at West Point since the commencement of the Iraq War. The Pro Peace rally will start at Veterans' Memorial Park on Route 210 in the Village of Highland Falls. Participants will stage a peaceful rally and march to Thayer Gate.

Alliance members continue to strongly believe that the costs of our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan substantially outweigh any rationale for either.

In Afghanistan we continue to support a corrupt government and to oppose efforts, supported by many Afghans to peacefully settle differences with the Taliban. We continue to waste billions of dollars on strategies which cannot hold for the long term.

In Iraq, we must expedite the timetable for withdrawal of our troops and cannot afford the weekly expenditures of several billion dollars. The funds expended daily in these wars are desperately need to deal with profound domestic issues. It makes no sense to continue these wars and incur their significant costs while our schools lay off teachers, our people experience record foreclosure and bankruptcies rates, our health care system cannot expand to cover millions of Americans for four more years and our colleges become less accessible to those who aspire to higher educations.

All people of good will are invited to join the Alliance's pro-peace rally.

http://ny4cg.org/actions/?id=4833

[ShortnFiery]

1. Thank-you very much for this valuable information.

:patriot::thumbsup:

[rug]

2. You're welcome.

We'll be there with 3 of our kids.

[Seneca]

102. Will you be bringing sings in support of AZ's new law?

I think you should have the courage of your convictions and bring one.

[Joanne98]

3. They need "No blood for Iran" signs.

[rug]

4. We'll make some tonight.

[greencharlie]

11. how about NO BLOOD for AFGHANISTNAM?

oh wait... too late.

[tallahasseedem]

5. I'm sure those students who...

worked so hard and are finally graduating will appreciate you guys ruining their day. Maybe you could invite the members of Westboro Baptist to join you.

[wyldwolf]

6. +1

[rug]

13. The current number is 1000+.

Counting only Afghanistan.

[laughingliberal]

7. There's that moral equivalency thingie again

People protesting the carnage of war are the same as a hate group who claims "God hates f*gs"

Fail.

[Arkana]

9. Yeah, those guys graduating West Point deserve to be disrespected

and spat upon. Am I right guys?

[rug]

12. Sure, opposing a military adventure authorized by the President and Congress is disrepecting cadets.

And who said anything about spitting? Are you having flashbacks to old Nixon talking points?

Congratulations on the second leading contender.

[Arkana]

14. I meant it as a metaphor, but carry on.

Perhaps you should protest funerals too--I mean, there'll be military personnel there as well!

[freddie mertz]

17. "Metaphor"? It's a line right out of Rambo!!!!

And it's a well-known lie as well.


Metaphor indeed.:mad: :puke:

[stevenleser]

91. He doesn't do metaphors, or evidence, or knowledge

but I admire your efforts to try to work through that. ;-)

[rug]

94. Hey Steve, your little subthread is further down.

Don't get lost.

[stevenleser]

95. Trying to tell people where to post now, eh? I guess that is better than admitting that you dont

know how an academy works.

[rug]

93. The purpose is to avoid funerals, military or otherwise.

[roody]

105. hyperbole seems more accurate

[freddie mertz]

16. Recycling decades old RW slander against anti-war demonstrators?

Nice.

[Robb]

8. Meh. Unfair.

This may surprise you, but there are such things as military people against war in general.

Antiwar activism such as this is always welcome.

[rug]

10. OK, let's sit back while the drones fly so their graduation isn't spoiled.

Congratulations on having the leading contender for idiotic post of the next 50,000,000.

[tallahasseedem]

18. Yeah right...

I may be a leading contender, but I'll never catch you. You're free to hit the ignore button to save you the grief of having to read a sensible post that calls into question the fact that you want to ruin a great day in their life.

Go ahead and do it. Those grads and family who have waited for this day will appreciate it. This puts you and your group right up there with the teabaggers. Way to go!

[rug]

27. Do you ever read what you write?

Do you actually believe demonstrating against the war is the same thing Phelps and the teabaggers do?

No need to wait to 100,000,000. Where do you want me to send your prize?

[tallahasseedem]

37. LOL!

You and Phelps believe that ruining a special day is okay, I don't.

FYI... the more you try and insult me the harder I laugh. Chances are you would never say the things you post on messageboards to anyone's face. Typical keyboard commando.

Enjoy ruining graduation day!

[rug]

39. I see how you feel about graduations. How do you feel about the war(s)?

[barkingbill]

54. give me a break...a protest doesnt RUIN anything

what kind of pansy cliche world do you live in where a protest would ruin the great day of the cadets.

how about adding a little color to the event? how about bringing reality into the picture of an unpopular war?

i think those hundreds of thousands of civilians killed in central asia had their days ruined too.

LAME!!!!!!

[barkingbill]

55. AND....you actually make the tea party sound inviting, if it's something someone like you is afraid

OF!

[noamnety]

73. Even if others here don't get what you're saying, I do.

Some days are a thing set apart as almost sacred for some people and you've already lost the hearts and minds of people when you mess with that.

"The charred meat sticking to rubble in black lumps could have been Osama bin Laden's henchmen but survivors said it was the remains of farmers, their wives and children, and wedding guests." 7 January 2002

"US bomb blunder kills 30 at Afghan wedding" 2 July 2002

"Survivors describe wedding massacre as generals refuse to apologise" 21 May 2004

"Afghan strike 'hit wedding party'" 6 July 2008

"US warplanes 'bomb Afghan wedding party'" 6 November 2008

[freddie mertz]

15. WTF? You oppose protests on graduation day?

You would have HATED the 60s and 70s!:thumbsdown:

[tallahasseedem]

19. Yes, I do...

and so what about the protests in the 60s and 70s? They should be able to celebrate their special day without protests.

[freddie mertz]

47. Well then I have to heartily disagree with you on this one.

Fortunately, the Constitution upholds our right to protest at these and other events.

[Tailormyst]

21. Equating people protesting death and destruction to people who scream "god hates fags" at funerals?

FAIL

[Drunken Irishman]

22. You're protesting someone's graduation...

Do you have kids? How'd you feel if people went and protested their graduation? It's not about you! It's about them! It's their graduation.

I felt the same way when Republicans went and protested Obama's Notre Dame speech. It's not about THEM. It's about those graduating.

You guys are FAILING.

See, this is why the left gets zero respect. They don't know how to look mainstream. But whatever. You've got to do what you've got to do. It's called tact. The left has never had it.

[Tailormyst]

23. I have kids, one is graduating in a couple weeks

AND he is already enlisted in the Airforce AND he has gone to anti war protests with me in DC. He has no problem differentiating issues and would be the first to stand up for people protesting for peace.

They are protesting war at a military college, where they teach warfare, during wartime. I am sure the kids are smart enough not be utterly shattered by some folks with signs. I think WP grads are not so fragile as you think.

[Drunken Irishman]

24. See. You have no tact.

And the people protesting Obama's speech at ND were just protesting his abortion views. Nothing more, right?

:eyes:

It's not about you. That day is reserved for them. It's their day. Not yours and not the protesters. THEIRS.

Just as a funeral is no place to protest, a graduation ceremony isn't, either. It's called picking and choosing the appropriate places to protest. But look like nutbags. I'm sure that'll help your cause greatly!

[Tailormyst]

25. ......says the drunken irishman.

Why am I not surprised that you cannot have a conversation without insulting others.

[Drunken Irishman]

28. Because I find protesting graduations to be pretty low.

I had the same thought process a year ago when the right-wingers stormed Notre Dame and made a spectacle out of someone else's day and my opinion isn't going to change because someone I'm ideologically linked to is doing it. Graduations only happen once for many of these people. I think it's tacky to go out and protest. If you want to protest Obama - fine! But pick a place where college kids aren't getting their degrees. Again, that's THEIR day. Don't make it about you.

[ShortnFiery]

32. This is just a guess: You don't care much for Code Pink either?

;) To each his/her own.

[Drunken Irishman]

42. It depends on their protesting manner.

I think sometimes they do good protests. Sometimes, I'm left scratching my head.

I did find their protest of McCain's acceptance speech back in '08 amusing, though.

[Tailormyst]

35. You can have differing opinions

I respect that you have your own opinions. I can talk about issues without attacking you personally.

Here is what I feel:

I would not protest the graduation, but I support the rights of those who would. I know their reasons behind doing so are not malevolent. Their intentions are to try and influence the people there and from the WH to move towards peace.

[Drunken Irishman]

41. I think that protesting a graduation does make a group look out of the mainstream...

Maybe they're not nutbags, as I suggested (though I did say LOOK like), but that's what happens in the perception game.

This is why I think it's important to draw a line in the sand (not legally, just an opinion) on where you protest. You don't protest at funerals. I think we can all agree on that one. You don't protest weddings (gay, straight, interracial, whatever) and I think you don't protest graduations. Even if it is peaceful.

It does nothing to win anyone over, IMO.

[Tailormyst]

49. I completely understand

and I respect your opinion.

[ShortnFiery]

26. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a few graduating Pointers who would ...

NOT object if Obama SOON ended these occupations?

Many of us were proud to have served in the military but would prefer not to have to "kill and die" for real.

I loved the training and knew many "ring knockers" during my active duty days. The vast majority of them were highly intelligent and squared away soldiers.

Nobody appreciates fighting for an unjust cause ... well except for many of the "very young" who are brain washed or those clinically sociopathic.

[Drunken Irishman]

30. I don't doubt that...

But I'm sure there were many graduating at Notre Dame who are anti-choice and were in firm opposition to Obama's abortion policies.

What's your point?

[ShortnFiery]

34. My point is that a few well behaved people holding signs are not going to put any DENT

on these young people's graduation.

This is more of "a statement" not an ACTING OUT measure of defiance.

The person announcing this wants people to be polite but covey their MESSAGE.

That's all.

[Drunken Irishman]

43. Well I hope they are polite.

I hope it's just a small event and nothing like the angry mob we saw at ND shouting down Pres. Obama during his speech.

[rug]

46. I'm bringing Jameson's and hoping we all get drunk.

:eyes:

[Drunken Irishman]

48. Good.

[stevenleser]

53. Yes, protesting schools should be saved for when the school administration is doing something BAD

Rug, what is wrong with protesting at the Pentagon or the White House? Why at this graduation?

This is going to backfire on you guys bigtime. You're hoping to promote peace but you are going to turn off far more people to the peace movement than those you might convert to your cause (if any).

[rug]

56. I'd say miltary invasions and occupations qualify as bad.

This has nothing to do with graduations and everything to do with the continuation of wars premised on lies and continued on rhetoric.

Read the speech the President gives and let me know if it should be opposed.

I take it you do not consider peace to be "your cause".

[stevenleser]

60. The school administration runs a school, not the defense department.

Do you really not get that?

The rest of what you wrote is a straw man having nothing to do with what I said.

Do you really expect to be successful in discussions where you copiously use logical fallacies like this?

[rug]

62. The Defense Department runs West Point.

That's not very hard to get.

Speaking of strawmen, the Gulf can make better use of your bales than your little packets of talking points, circa 1970.

[stevenleser]

64. No, they dont. That is like saying the education department runs all public schools

I, and everyone else by now realizes you are spinning as fast as you can to justify the awful decision you have made to protest this school graduation.

You aren't fooling anyone.

[rug]

68. Who is spinning?

The U.S. Military Academy does not compile a single budget document, and its expenditures are commonly interwoven with the costs of operating and maintaining the Army garrison at West Point. By the academy's own estimate, however, the annual cost of operating the U.S. Military Academy is about $164 million.

http://findfederalagency.com/united-states-military-academy-usma-west-point

I thought journalists cherished facts.

[stevenleser]

72. As I said below to Tailormyst...

Have you spent any time examining how an academy is run and how they work?

Do you understand how the administration of an academy goes about doing its job? Do you understand the difference in roles between upper and lower classmen at an academy?

Have you ever visited an academy? Have you attended a graduation?

Do you have any military experience?

I can answer "yes" to all of those questions. To how many of them can YOU answer "yes"?

[rug]

75. Then you should know who runs West Point.

Lots of info at the link i gave you.

[stevenleser]

76. I do, you don't and nothing in the link you provided refutes anything I have said. Nice try though..

not.

[rug]

79. That's true, Steve. Not one line in the link mentions you.

So I must concede you've gone to an Academy graduation, irrelevant though it may be.

[stevenleser]

80. Still waiting on the answers to my questions...

<crickets>

[rug]

81. Still waiting for evidence from you that the USMA is not run by the Defense Department.

Humbled though I am by your attendance at a graduation. I would still prefer some, que se dice, "objective" evidence.

[stevenleser]

82. Still waiting for the answers to my questions.

<crickets are now in their third generation>

I'm forced to conclude that you know nothing about how service academies are run, but you are protesting them.

Doesnt sound particularly smart to me.

[rug]

85. I've seen Harry Potter three times and I can categorically state West Point is not run by Dumbledore

Now, where's your evidence that West Point is not run by DoD?

And, since you you demonstrated abundantly that you missed the point, the protest is against the wars, not graduations.

[stevenleser]

87. But yet, you conclude the secretary of education runs your local elementary school

not the principal and not the school board. That is the logical equivalent of saying the DOD runs the military academies.

Neither is correct, but you are insistent on not admitting it.

[stevenleser]

88. You really dont want to admit that you are completely ignorant as to how the academies work

I guess I can understand why you would be embarrassed.

An honest person would admit their lack of knowledge and try to relocate the protest.

[rug]

92. Logic is not your forte.

And thank you for the objective information I requested.

In the meantime you can peruse the Federal Register.

http://www.usma.edu/bov/FedRegNotice,25Janfor10Feb10.pdf

[stevenleser]

77. And I am still waiting on answers...

Have you spent any time examining how an academy is run and how they work?

Do you understand how the administration of an academy goes about doing its job? Do you understand the difference in roles between upper and lower classmen at an academy?

Have you ever visited an academy? Have you attended a graduation?

Do you have any military experience?

I can answer "yes" to all of those questions. To how many of them can YOU answer "yes"?

[Tailormyst]

65. Ummm it's a military college, it's run by the military, to prepare military officers.

During wartime. A war that we had no right to start. You do realize they teach warfare right? The "students" are soldiers.

[stevenleser]

69. You realize that you dont know what you are talking about, right?

Have you spent any time examining how an academy is run and how they work?

Do you understand how the administration of an academy goes about doing its job? Do you understand the difference in roles between upper and lower classmen at an academy?

Have you ever visited an academy? Have you attended a graduation?

Do you have any military experience?

I can answer "yes" to all of those questions. To how many of them can YOU answer "yes"?

[Tailormyst]

89. So it is not attended solely by cadets? The Dean and dean's staff are not mostly Army officers?

It's not like every other college. It's purpose is to prepare future military officers. 75% of the staff are military officers. It's located on federal military land.

I get that you think the protests are not appropriate, and I respect that view, but trying to make the academy into something it isn't is just not necessary. Those graduates will be commissioned officers in the US military when they graduate.

One brother went to the CG Academy and the other is a Captain in the Navy. My son leaves for the Airforce in Sept. I'm not anti-military in any way. Was I in the military? No, I ended up pregnant with my first child and had to put my plans for the Navy behind me.

[SoxFan]

50. Amen

"Look at me, I'm sooooo progressive, and you are ignorant drones in the war machine".

Smart, motivated young men and women wh just spent four years completing the most demanding and rigorous program in the country, and you're going to piss on their day.

Nice.

Get over yourselves, attention-seeking elitist jerks.

[rug]

52. Veterans For Peace are attention-seeking elitist jerks?

It's not too strenuous to click a link before posting.

[stevenleser]

61. Everything you wrote is correct except one thing...

these folks doing the protest are not in any way elites.

[marshall]

51. Protesting makes strange bedfellows

But to each his own. It's America!

[citizen snips]

67. I bet the protest will have a low turnout.

And hopefully the protestors will kept away from the graduation ceremony.

[rug]

71. Hopefully the military will be kept away from Afghanistan.

[ShortnFiery]

83. ...

You're in rare form today. :-) :thumbsup:

[Radical Activist]

20. Let us know if you're penned up several blocks away in "free speech zones"

like we always were for Bush. Or does the plan not involve going near the event?

[Tailormyst]

29. Hopefully Obama's WH would not go that route.

[Radical Activist]

45. I don't believe they are.

The press has been just as silent about reporting the restoration of the right to assemble and exercise free speech as they were when those rights were denied by Bush.

[rug]

31. They didn't when I was there December 1 for Obama's speech announcing the Afghan escalation.

The demonstration gathered in the teeny town square of Highland Falls and then proceeded about a mile and a half to one of the main gates, Thayer. That was as far as we could go. Obama's speech was well inside the grounds. I expect this will go the same way.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. You guys should be given a place on the podium

so you can speak truth to power.

:rofl:

[rug]

36. Nah, I can just post on DU all day.

[alcibiades_mystery]

38. Yeah yeah!

You're engaged, unlike those internet posters!

Awesome for you!

[rug]

40. Awesome post.

[Radical Activist]

44. Good.

Being at the main gates is at least better than what I experienced protesting Bush.

[MadBadger]

57. Peacefully Settle Differences with the Taliban?

Really?

[rug]

58. Opportunities to negotiate with the Taliban should be explored.

http://thepage.time.com/2008/10/23/obama-opportunities-to-negotiate-with-taliban-should-be-explored/

Although he did say it two weeks before the election.

[SoxFan]

106. Sure. Just chat them up during a cricket match.

Everything will be just fine.

[NJmaverick]

59. No thank you, I am not that naive to believe the nonsense you are selling

[rug]

63. Are you naive enough to believe the rationales for these wars that have been peddled since 2001?

[NJmaverick]

66. Nope but I am sophisticated enough to appreciate that Iraq is winding down in a responsible manner

and now that Bush screwed up Afghanistan it would be morally reprehensible to leave the Afghan people (especially the ones that supported the US) to the tender loving mercies of the Taliban monsters.

[rug]

70. I thought Afghanistan was invaded because of 9/11, not monsters.

[NJmaverick]

74. Like I said, you need to move past simplistic thinking

that would lead one to believe a situation remains static for 9 years

[rug]

78. Oh it hasn't remained static, it's gotten worse. More so since December 1.

[stevenleser]

84. He's not capable of it if it means he has to drop his anti-Obama rhetoric

According to him, the Secretary of Education runs your local elementary school, not the principal and not the school board.

[rug]

86. Simplistic thinking, Q.E.D.

[stevenleser]

90. I'm still waiting for the answers to my questions.

Have you spent any time examining how an academy is run and how they work?

Do you understand how the administration of an academy goes about doing its job? Do you understand the difference in roles between upper and lower classmen at an academy?

Have you ever visited an academy? Have you attended a graduation?

Do you have any military experience?

I can answer "yes" to all of those questions. To how many of them can YOU answer "yes"?

[ShortnFiery]

96. Excuse me for responding in place of rug, but allow me provide you a subtle hint:

[rug]

99. Thank you. I was thinking he was turning into this.

[ShortnFiery]

100. I was trying to steer the discussion back to the main issue.

I personally hate being tag teamed, therefore, I was trying to be somewhat polite and subtle.

Mission not accomplished. :(

[stevenleser]

97. Sorry #96, I have you on ignore, n/t

[rug]

98. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

You didn't ask how many military funerals I've attended but I'll tell you: 6, 3 at Pinelawn, 2 at Calverton, 1 at Arlington.

I'd ask you to explain the relevance but clearly there is none.

Instead, I'll leave you to your embarassing reverie that the United States Military Academy is not a military academy controlled by the United States.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hulka38]

103. Good luck tomorrow, Rug.

Remember, the anti protestors on this thread were almost certainly the Dems who were easily persuaded by the Bush administration that Iraq was a grave threat to America and needed to be invaded. Although they won't have the guts to admit it now.

[roody]

104. wonderful action---thank you