Could someone offer SPECIFIC EXAMPLES of actions the Whitehouse could take on this gusher?

[phleshdef]

I mean, what is there that they can legally do right now that they haven't all ready done? Apparently, the government isn't prepared with the right stuff to combat an oil gusher of this magnitude. Is the government legally allowed to seize BPs stuff and use it? I could see a lot of problems there if they tried. What other SAFE and LEGAL options are there that they are holding back on? I'm hearing a lot of loud criticism but its mostly empty yelling that doesn't seem to have any solution based backing.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. They should put top men on the case.

[dionysus]

2. top. men.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. You stole my punchline.

[dionysus]

9. what are you gonna do about it?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

14. Are you itching to find out?

[dionysus]

16. sweet jesus. n/t

[cliffordu]

208. OMFG!!!!!!

:rofl:

[Jennicut]

139. Hit Girl would totally KICK ASS!

[backscatter712]

235. THAT'S IT!!!

The government could box up the gusher in a wooden crate, cart it to some warehouse in Area 51, and store it there so nobody can get at it!

BRILLIANT!!!

[phleshdef]

8. Who is on the case now? Bottom men?

It seems to me that all the expertise in the world isn't going to stop a volcano like eruption of oil 5,000 feet below sea level.

[dionysus]

12. psst, you missed an indiana jones joke.

[JBoy]

49. top.men.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doARYLLi7Jo

[Eric Condon]

179. T.O.P. M.E.N.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkjlVZugybs

[whyverne]

4. Call in the Marines!

Yeah, I wonder myself. Maybe Obama doesn't want to look like an empty suit spouting empty rhetoric.

[mkultra]

114. yes, they can shoot it shut

[Rosa Luxemburg]

190. toss a few grenades in - that should stop it!

[mkultra]

207. Or create the coolest underwater blow torch ever

[FSogol]

5. The WH could fix it! That's what I would do!

:sarcasm:


I don't get people sometimes. :shrug:

[Rosa Luxemburg]

191. send Rahm down in a deep sea vehicle and he could remotely fix it

[dionysus]

6. it doesn't matter whether or not there's anything feasible the govt can do...

but i've already seen someone calling for impeachment over the affair.

[Lerkfish]

17. so, you don't have any concrete suggestions, either?

I've posted my concrete suggestion further down the thread.

[dionysus]

20. #1 is quite vague. 2 & 3, go for it, but it won't stop the spill

furthermore, do you really believe govt scientists AREN'T looking at what can be done?

[Lerkfish]

22. I'm saying Obama needs to empower them to TAKE ACTION not study

the gulf does not belong to BP. This is the same as Katrina in that it is a national and international disaster of monstrous proportions. If the government can send ships to help with the pacific tsunami, why not here?

[phleshdef]

28. More vague platitudes lacking any substance towards a real solution to stopping the gusher.

[Lerkfish]

30. where is your substance, then?

complete surrender?

[phleshdef]

33. I don't need any. I don't claim to know how to fix this. You do (yet provide no actual solution).

[Lerkfish]

38. nope, your right. flamebait never needs an explanation

[FSogol]

32. What would the ships do?

They are currently constructing another platform to drill into the well. The idea is to relieve pressure. Unfortunately, the 2nd rig takes 2-3 months to complete. I'm guessing that due to the depth involved, it will be more like 4 months. They have been at it for about 3 weeks now. All the leadership in the world won't make that happen faster.

[Lerkfish]

37. really, government ships are doing that? or are they BP ships?

are the efforts being directed by BP or the administration?

[phleshdef]

42. BP has the materials, tools, and skilled workers to construct it, the government does not.

[Lerkfish]

44. say a man shoots you in cold blood. Do you let him dress your wounds?

I cannot believe you think the negligent corporations who created this disaster can be trusted to fix it?

[FSogol]

Say at ambulance crashes into you, would you let the paramedics bandage your leg?

[Lerkfish]

52. I'd call another ambulance.

analogies are fun, aren't they?

[stevenleser]

145. Which could very well mean you bleed to death in the meantime

not very smart

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadMaddie]

142. What you are suggesting is that the government no matter who

is the leader should stockpile backup recovery supplies for oil companies, coal mine companies, chemical companies.......and any other industry that fails to adhere to basic safety rules and follow their own processe?

Will you complain about the billions the government would spend stockpiling these supplies and expending manpower to retain professionals to wait for a disaster to happen?

[Lerkfish]

181. you make a fair and valid point.

but I would think it might fall under an ounce of prevention. Because certainly the taxpayers will foot the bill on the back end for recovery, not corporations.

so maybe stockpiling would not be a bad investment.

[MadMaddie]

206. I think that you are on the right track

I would suggest that if any company whose industry has potential for catastrophic incidents be required by law to have a minimum of 70% of stockpile on hand. The company should be responsible for the $$$, this way the tax payer is not held responsible for a companies mismanagement of it's business.

[mzteris]

220. if he's the only damn doctor capable of the work availablle

at the time. With the equipment necessary and the expertise - and the spotlight that ensures that they DO it, then, uh - yeah. What are you going to do? Call joetheplumber cause he's worked with pipes before?

[mkultra]

227. If a Dr. shoots me while cleaning his gun, then yes

[byrok]

237. I shot a man in Reno once...

just to watch him die.;)

[dgibby]

58. Rather difficult to ascertain the facts,

considering that BP and the govt. are denying the Press access to the scene of the crime, wouldn't you agree?

[mzteris]

219. Just DO it. don't research it.

Doesn't matter WHAT you do as long as you "do something!!" eh?

Yeah, that's the ticket. Don't bother having the top minds in the country working on this problem. Let's take every internet suggestion and just try it already, 'k? I mean, what more harm could it do, right? Now about that NUKE idea . . .

[PufPuf23]

67. I am certain Govt scientists are looking but whether they are

being listened to or empowered is another question.

I was a Fed from 1969 to 1985 and resigned when Reagan made a mockery of NEPA and give-aways of public resources to large corporations.

I started as a summer high school Youth Opportunity Corp age 16. The time during and post university I worked either at a Federal Research Station or in management in a highly technical field. The Feds even paid me as a GS-9 to attend grad school for a year. Reagan broke an agency that was forward looking and making money. I set my quit date as the date where I completed my time commitment for the post-grad education. I had planned to be a lifer and probably the happiest days of my life ended the day Reagan took charge.

If anything, government science is far more politicized and marginalized in 2010 than 1985.

[tledford]

77. Well, they could try concrete. :-) eom

[Rosa Luxemburg]

193. Hallibuton is responsible for concreting of oil wells

[mkultra]

228. your kidding right?

[Rosa Luxemburg]

192. what nonsense!

[Ian David]

7. They could nuke it from orbit.

Oh, wait.

That's for aliens.

[TomCADem]

210. Actually, some folks did propose nuking it for real.

I don't think anyone in a position of authority took it seriously.

[Lerkfish]

10. I've already made concrete suggestions

1. organize every available engineer and scientist to fix the problem.
2. send BP a bill for the entire operation afterwards.
3. charge BP executives with criminal negligence.

pretty simple, actually.

its not rocket science. These are the concret things Obama could do RIGHT NOW.

[phleshdef]

15. 1. Is a bunch of vague bullshit. 2 and 3 have nothing to do with my question.

[Lerkfish]

21. really? in what way?

If he can arrange a commission to study it, he can arrange a coalition to deal with it.

and everything I posted has precisely everything to do with your question.

You just don't like the answer because you don't want any concrete suggestions. You want everyone to throw up their hands and think nothing can be done by Obama and therefore he gets a pass for inaction.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FSogol]

25. You think they don't already have dozens of experts studying the problem?

:shrug:

[Lerkfish]

29. actually, the scientists are being PREVENTED from studying the problem by the Obama

administration, so, no they don't.

[phleshdef]

36. Yes they actually DO have scientists on this. That doesn't mean you open up a disaster area...

...to every civilian with a science degree.

[Lerkfish]

40. who owns those scientists?

[phleshdef]

43. It doesn't matter. Its not profitable for BP to avoid stopping the gusher.

[Lerkfish]

45. is it profitable for BP to save the environment, or collect the oil?

and, yes it does matter.

[phleshdef]

50. They can't collect the oil if its spread around the whole gulf and out to the Atlantic ocean.

Which is why the claim that BP is avoiding fixing the leak for profit wreaks of stupidity and lack of common sense.

[Lerkfish]

53. what are their concrete plans to clean up the environment?

I mean, besides chasing off reporters and scientists.

[phleshdef]

56. This thread isn't about the cleanup problem, its about stopping the gusher in the first place.

Stop trying to derail the conversation.

[dgibby]

66. You ignore the fact that they ARE collecting the oil,

alibet only a fraction of what's spewing into the Gulf; however, if they stopped the gusher altogether, then they wouldn't be able to collect ANY oil.

[phleshdef]

69. The oil they are collecting is coming from the gusher.

And its not enough to make them any real money. Since they are unable to stop it, the only thing they can try to do is collect it. Not stopping the gusher is an undeniable liability to BP at this point.

[dgibby]

78. Well, alrighty then.

So you don't have any problem with the fox being placed in charge of the hen house?

BP stands to lose billions of dollars because of this, yet you don't think it matters if the scientists are working FOR BP? And it doesn't make a difference to you if all the testing is being done in a Lab OWNED by BP?

Does it matter to you that the Press and independent experts are being denied access by BP AND the govt?

I just finished putting in my garden, so I'd be more than happy to lend you my shovel if you insist on digging that hole you're standing in.

[phleshdef]

97. Can you put aside the politispeak for a minute and just answer my question?

What can they do to stop a massive oil gusher 5000 feet below sea level that they aren't doing?

The press access and all that is another problem altogether and probably one easily explained by safety issues considering what this is doing to wildlife down there. We can all pretend they are hiding something, but the fact that we know how fucked this situation actually is shows that nothing can really be hidden.

[stevenleser]

What is your background in petroleum engineering? What are your sources for the administration's

actions thus far? Are any of them better than third hand?

[Lerkfish]

213. only petroleum engineers are allowed to comment?

that's going to be a very small discussion group.

AND THE OP asked us to comment. Look what happens when someone like me actually fulfills that request. I get abuse from people like you.

[mzteris]

221. "fulfills that request"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


And to quote your sigline : "you can't fix stupid"

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[stevenleser]

144. Dupe pls delete

Delete

[FSogol]

46. No, plently of scientists are aboard Coast Guard ships and are studying the problems

The people being kept out are crackpots with harebrained schemes, get rich quick oil cleaning ideas, and various self-important do-gooders. Keep the quacks away so the engineers involved can do their work.


I will agree on one thing. Obama should hold a press conference and update everyone on what is being done. Also appoint a technical spokesperson to provide updates.

[Lerkfish]

48. whose scientists are those? BP's?

[phleshdef]

51. Its a well known fact that scientists not employed by BP were pulled in on this early.

You can keep asking stupid questions in an attempt to derail this thread or you can just be honest and admit you have no clue what you are talking about. Its your call.

[Lerkfish]

57. links?

are those other scientists able to tell BP what to do?

[phleshdef]

60. I'm not there working with the teams of people who are on this...

...so I don't know exactly what the protocol for operation is. The difference between you and me though is I'm openly admitting that I don't know what they should while you are pretending that you do in order to have a platform to criticize something that you know absolutely nothing about.

I'm not going to play 20 stupid questions with you for hours on end. Either show me what specific plan can be implemented to stop the gusher (and I don't mean a bullshit vague bunch of nothing, I mean a specific plan) or consider the rest of your posts ignored, at least by me.

[Lerkfish]

61. um, really? you seem to be putting yourself in the postion of shooting down every suggestion I make

as if you are.

:shrug:

you can always alert on my posts if you wish.

[phleshdef]

62. You didn't make any real suggestions.

[Lerkfish]

64. you asked for input. I gave it

then you started throwing a fit. Go figure. If you don't want people to post in your thread, don't make it open.

[dionysus]

63. you only made one hugely vague suggestion. "get scientists together to fix it."

well no shit, sherlock! what do you think they're doing now?

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

65. asked and answered.

you're talking in circles now.

[phleshdef]

68. Yea, "no shit sherlock" should have been our first and only response to that.

[Lerkfish]

72. well that would have been more polite actually.

why don't you try that next time?

and next time, don't get all abusive when people answer a question that you asked everyone to answer.

[phleshdef]

74. Geez, stop being so thin skinned.

[Lerkfish]

76. shrug... I call it as i see it.

the thickness of my skin doesn't absolve your abusive behaviour.

[FSogol]

128. MMS, USN, & the US Coast Guard. Info here:

http://www.doi.gov/news/doinews/Update-5-20-2010-The-Ongoing-Administration-Wide-Response-to-the-Deepwater-BP-Oil-Spill.cfm

and here:

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/go/site/2931/

[dgibby]

80. Do you have a reputable link to support that assertion? n/t

[Name removed]

116. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dgibby]

119. You made a statement, did not provide a link.

I politely asked you for a link to support your statement. I am not responsible for researching your assertations. You are.

As for all my "ignorant bitching", you just crossed the line. No doubt since you're so very intelligent, you know where this is going.

Have a good day, and bless your heart. Bye-Bye now.

[phleshdef]

130. Um, actually there was a link in that post before it was deleted.

Not that you need one. You know damn well that the government had Chu put together a team of scientists, one of them was an anti-gay bigot that got kicked off the team. This was well known news and no one needs to provide you any links for well known news.

[dgibby]

137. Um, actually the post I originally responded to was # 46,

which did not contain a link. The poster who's response was deleted inserted him/herself into that discussion,provided a link, then proceeded to cross the line as to what constitutes civil discourse, something you might want to take into account when you presume to know what I did or did not know about the statement that was made. Regardless, I have every right to request a link.

My mistake was in thinking I was responding to the individual who posted #46. My bad; however, that was nothing compared to the post that was deleted (which I printed out,btw).

My other mistake was in not realizing you posted this in GDP instead of GD. I rarely respond to anything posted in GDP, as I generally find it to be an exercise in futility. Your responses here have reinforced that belief. My bad,again. I'll try hard to be more attentive in the future.

Sorry I bothered you by responding to your op. Have a good day.

[Name removed]

229. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[relayerbob]

234. Evidence?

[Aramchek]

231. i hate to break it to you, but organizing scientists isn't a concrete solution

[ecstatic]

59. *every available non-bigoted engineer and scientist nt

[Number23]

133. Good Lord. None of your suggestions do one thing to stop the oil spill, which was the whole point

of this OP.

[Lerkfish]

214. another example of unrelenting grief from someone who has not the temerity

to offer their own suggestions. MY SUGGESTIONS WERE REQUESTED BY THE OP.

true, this is a thinly veiled treacle well flamebait trap, the OP only posted it as a STFU thread, which you are participating in, but nonetheles, I DID offer suggestions.

[Number23]

239. You waited two days to post this foolilshness???

:wtf:

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

194. they are (1) and will 2 and 3 so what else?

empty

[quaker bill]

198. More engineers doesn't typically help

This is not a design problem. People have been plugging wells for a very long time and even I know how to do it. This is an execution problem. Generally more than a small handful of "suits" just makes a hash of things. Cleaning up the spill does not take much engineering either. There are plenty of folks familiar with the technology involved. It simply takes a lot of labor and supplies.

I would like to get to the "afterwards" so we could send them the bill.

Charging the executives is a lovely thought, and probably appropriate, but does not clean up a single drop of oil.

No point or time for messing around with most of this until the leak is stopped.

[NoNothing]

11. He should follow the example of King Canute

Board one of the Navy's most powerful warships, sail directly to the site of the leak, and personally command it to stop.

[Scurrilous]

18. LOL

:thumbsup:

[KansasVoter]

13. Maybe have the EPA not listen and believe everything BP says!!!!!

[phleshdef]

19. They don't need to listen or not listen to BP. Thats irrelevant to my question.

Here are the known facts:

There is a huge volcanic gusher of oil erupting 5,000 feet below the ocean.
We need to stop the eruption.

That is all we need to know in order to come up with a solution. But the answer may be that there isn't a solution that humankind is equipped to deliver on.

[Lerkfish]

23. yes, as I said, that is the only answer you're willing to accept.

1. Obama is absolved of any leadership responsibilities.
2. roll over and die.

[treestar]

81. Obama can only do what the government is legally enabled to do

Sheesh, some of you want a dictatorship.

Part of the price of freedom is things like this.

Leadership on this is limited to what the Constitution says our leaders can do.

Everything that happens is not the government's responsbility. God sometimes this board has me sounding like a conservative. But don't make us look ridiculous by claiming that a President always has unlimited power to fix everything.

[phleshdef]

89. You don't sound like a conservative by acknowledging current legal realities.

We need to change those realities, but for now, they are what they are.

[Lerkfish]

93. and what are those legal realities, exactly?

please delineate them in detail, in a concrete way, or you will have no right to comment -- according to your reasoning.

[phleshdef]

99. Your feelings are hurt. I get that.

I don't know if the government can legally seize BPs equipment and use it. I said that in my OP. However the post I was responding to was about the broad power of government in general and its common knowledge that there are legal limits on what the government is allowed to do in any situation. I don't think legal limitations are the issue here in either event.

[dionysus]

111. if they seized BP equipment, would anyone know how to use it?

[Lerkfish]

182. my feelings aren't hurt, thanks for asking.

but you're arguing both sides of your own strategy. You think its ok not only for you to comment on something on which you have incomplete knowledge, but that you can limit the comments of others unless they have complete knowledge.

It doesn't hurt my feelings that you're a hypocrite. That's your intellectual dishonesty, not mine.

[quaker bill]

196. What one believes is not relevant

Is the hole plugged?

That is the only relevant question.

[Webster Green]

26. I would like to see scientists and the media allowed in.

I'm beyond pissed that they are being kept out. :wtf:

[phleshdef]

27. Seeing what the toxins in this are doing to animals. I can understand keeping civilians out.

[Webster Green]

71. Including media?

Why? To hide the severity of the disaster from the public? Why?

[Lerkfish]

73. excellent question.

[phleshdef]

75. The severity isn't being hidden. Everyone knows this is an epic mess.

[Lerkfish]

79. that is patently false, and you know it.

how long was the video of leak kept from the public?

why are reporters and oceanographers being shut out?

[phleshdef]

87. Are you seriously telling me that you don't know this is an epic mess?

[Lerkfish]

90. sigh

not my point.

this is an extinction level disaster.

what you are being false about is that access is open to the disaster. It is not.

[phleshdef]

96. I'm not sure it should be open. Animals are dropping dead from the toxins.

Should reporters and civilians scientists be allowed to rush into a burning building?

[Webster Green]

101. That's bullshit and you know it.

If they can cover wars, they can go look at the mutherfucking beach. :wtf:

[phleshdef]

103. Were they allowed to charge into ground zero on 9/12?

[Webster Green]

106. Nevermind.

Whatever dude.

[phleshdef]

107. Thats what I thought.

[Webster Green]

109. Oh yes, you defeated me with your idiocy.

Don't flatter yourself. I've got better things to do than argue with delusional people. :crazy:

[phleshdef]

112. Yea, suggesting that there are dangerous toxins around the effected area is delusional.

[Lerkfish]

183. so the press being blocked is ok with you?

was it ok with you during Katrina?

[Webster Green]

98. Sure, everyone at DU knows it. Others? Maybe not so much.

That's a really lame excuse for keeping news media from filming the oil on the beaches and in the marshlands.

You actually support media suppression by BP, the Coast Guard and the local pigs?

That's fucked!

[phleshdef]

100. I don't think its all media suppression. There are obvious safety concerns.

[Webster Green]

102. Oh bullshit!

Yeh, right, they're being kept away for their own safety. :rofl:

Total fucking bullshit!

[phleshdef]

104. The toxins from this are all ready killing off entire segments of wetlands.

You can keep beating your petty little chest and yelling bullshit. It doesn't change the fact that you have no clue what you are talking about.

[phleshdef]

Here, Mr safety expert, tell me THIS is bullshit.

Up to now, only tar balls and a sheen of oil had come ashore. But brown and vivid orange globs and sheets of foul-smelling oil the consistency of latex paint have begun coating the reeds and grasses of Louisiana's wetlands, home to rare birds, mammals and a rich variety of marine life.

A deep, stagnant ooze sat in the middle of a particularly devastated marsh off the Louisiana coast where Emily Guidry Schatzel of the National Wildlife Federation was examining stained reeds.

"This is just heartbreaking," she said with a sigh. "I can't believe it."

...

"Everything in that marsh is dead as we speak," Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser said after touring the clogged marshes. "Had you fallen off that boat yesterday and come up breathing that stuff, you probably wouldn't be here, either."

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/a_month_in_outrage_over_gulf_o.html

[phleshdef]

105. Here, Mr safety expert, tell me THIS is bullshit.

Up to now, only tar balls and a sheen of oil had come ashore. But brown and vivid orange globs and sheets of foul-smelling oil the consistency of latex paint have begun coating the reeds and grasses of Louisiana's wetlands, home to rare birds, mammals and a rich variety of marine life.

A deep, stagnant ooze sat in the middle of a particularly devastated marsh off the Louisiana coast where Emily Guidry Schatzel of the National Wildlife Federation was examining stained reeds.

"This is just heartbreaking," she said with a sigh. "I can't believe it."

...

"Everything in that marsh is dead as we speak," Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser said after touring the clogged marshes. "Had you fallen off that boat yesterday and come up breathing that stuff, you probably wouldn't be here, either."

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/a_month_in_outrage_over_gulf_o.html

[dgibby]

138. That's why they're not allowing the shrimpers

to help with the clean up/containment, don'tcha know? Oh, wait....never mind!

[Webster Green]

140. Unbelievable, ain't it?

Whatever. :silly:

[dgibby]

110. Then they can don Hazmat suits,

but they shouldn't be denied access.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

195. You mean the NY TImes isn't down there in a diving bell?

[KansasVoter]

108. LOL....Yes, scientists do not understand toxins! Wow, are you desperate!

[phleshdef]

117. What does "understanding toxins" have to do with anything I said.

Desperate is replying with something that doesn't make any sense and isn't relevant to what you were replying to... but just saying something so you can feel like you are getting the last word.

[Lerkfish]

31. Precisely, KEEPING OUT THE SCIENTISTS is an anti-solution

I'm saying let them in and let them engineer a solution.

[phleshdef]

34. So you think the multitude of scientists all ready on this aren't really scientists?

[Lerkfish]

41. who are these scientists, and who pays their paychecks?

[Webster Green]

70. I keep seeing stories about oceanographers who can't get info from NOAA

Perhaps the stories are false? Fucked if I know. I don't believe anything anymore.

[WeDidIt]

35. It's like fixing a car, you open the hood take a look and fix it!

Now if you'd just look at this chart here...

[phleshdef]

39. LOL! Ross Perot charts is nothing but win.

[WeDidIt]

47. My subject line is a Ross Perot quote, too

Only it was his answer on how to fix the 1992 economy.

[JBoy]

55. +1 for a relevant Ross Perot reference

:thumbsup:

[depakid]

141. Incomplete though- needed a reference to the "giant sucking sound"

[WeDidIt]

143. That Giant sucking sound you hear is Kevin Costner's oil spill cleanup machine. n/t

[Robb]

85. This is the best post of the week.

:rofl:

[nichomachus]

82. So what you're saying is

That if we can't say exactly how BP should solve this problem, we should STFU and not criticize them. This is the same logic as in your OP. I just changed one name.

[Lerkfish]

83. DING DING DING we have a winner

[phleshdef]

95. Not exactly. I'm saying if you are going to accuse the administration of not trying...

...then tell me exactly what it is they aren't trying to do that they could do. If you know enough to say they aren't trying, then you should be able to tell me what it is they are refusing to try.

[Hansel]

136. Excellent point. nt

[DirkGently]

84. The premise of this thread is weak. It's the equivalent

of saying we should support waterboarding until we have a "concrete" solution to terrorism. What we KNOW is that BP is motivated solely by its own short-term best interests, and lacks any ideas better than stuffing the hole with "golf balls and bits of rubber." It's logic 101 that you don't have to have the perfect solution in mind to eliminate a bad solution. We tried letting BP fix it. That DIDN'T WORK. What exactly is the difficulty with this concept?

How about a "concrete" reason why we should continue to let the obviously incompetent, obviously money-over-safety motivated, obviously disingenuous oil company continue to run around in circles while the Gulf fills up with oil? How about some 'SPECIFIC EXAMPLES' of that? Really, is it the great job they're doing? The prospect that they'll suddenly come up with something better than the "Golf Ball Plan?" Their tremendous track record? Or their deep, sincere desire to do right by all mankind?

[Lerkfish]

86. precisely

[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lerkfish]

187. I think its an accurate assessment of the OP's intent

so yes, I agree with it.

and, I'm a liberal.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

197. don't be rude please

[phleshdef]

91. Nice foamy mouthed rant, now can you tell me what we could do that we aren't doing?

[Lerkfish]

94. my my your flamebait is nice and toasty.

[donco6]

126. I didn't see anything foamy-mouthed.

It was a good point. Why not address it?

[phleshdef]

129. Because none of it was relevant to my question.

Recounting the events and trashing BP and following that up with your favorite liberal buzz phrases doesn't tell me how the gusher is fixable and why we haven't tried whatever that solution may be.

[DirkGently]

165. You don't have a question. You have an attack. And it isn't working

Once again: No one is required to single-handedly solve the worst oil company disaster of all time in order to deduce that the oil company that caused it is not qualified to fix it. You have not, and cannot answer the only relevant question, which is, "Why let BP run the disaster recovery efforts?" Until you answer that, you have no right to demand answers of those correctly noting BP's failure here.

[phleshdef]

168. Continue dodging the question then.

You are well within your rights to cower away from admitting that you have no clue what they could be doing right now that they aren't all ready doing. Trying to change the topic isn't going to make that question any less relevant.

So I'll continue to demand the answer, you may not like that, but you will live.

[DirkGently]

174. Continue dodging the truth then

Which is that your "question" is rhetorical nonsense. It's a illogical, unsupportable tactic which for some reason you believe you can use to defend BP as the most qualified to run the cleanup of the disaster it caused through its own greed and incompetence. Which again, doesn't survive even the most basic logical analysis. Again, you don't leave the arsonist in charge of firefighting pending a full investigation as how fires could better be suppressed. You throw the bum out and do whatever you need to, but you do it with someone who isn't both conflicted about putting out fires and clueless as to how to go about it.

You have no basis to demand a solution to BP's disaster from anyone here, while hilariously giving BP a pass on the same question. What is *BP* going to do all of a sudden that works? Why should we trust the same impotent boobs that caused this, who clearly haven't the slightest idea what they're doing? Who in the world would be LESS qualified?

[phleshdef]

175. Okay, you can continue on with empty claims of "rhetorical nonsense".

And outright lying about my original premise. Or maybe you aren't lying, maybe you really don't lack the ability to understand it, although its pretty simple, so I'm not sure why there is any trouble.

Again, no one defended any actions by BP. This is about what the federal government is or is not equipped to do. Avoiding answerin that question and trying to sidetrack it by attacking the notion of asking the question to begin with doesn't help you get your point across. Its a cheap way to avoid admitting that you don't know. Its sad that you can't just admit that you have no answer. But everyone has their own ego hangups I suppose.

[NJmaverick]

157. What's weak is your failure to answer the question and instead go on the attack

way to avoid the issue

[DirkGently]

161. The only attack here is this inane pseudo-logic

that BP must be the best solution, and that anyone who disagrees is obligated to draw up their own blueprints to do the job BP has failed to do. They failed. Period. I don't know what's driving this curious BP apologism or the logically nonsensical attempt to propose that anyone who dares critique the oil company who created the problem through its own greed and ineptitude must immediately row out to the site and repair BP clusterfrak by themselves. As noted earlier, it's the same kind of attempted logical sleight of hand we heard from rightwingers claiming that torture and Gitmo were the best policy "until you have a way to end terrorism." The answer is simple: THIS WAY IS NOT WORKING. FIND ANOTHER.

Again, put your own illogic where your mouth is, and tell us what BP is doing RIGHT here? Why should BP be running the show? On what possible basis would we allow it to continue to be in charge when it has already demonstrated an inability to even begin to address the problem?

Until you can answer that question, you have no right to demand answers from anyone else.

[phleshdef]

166. No one in this thread has apologized for anything for BP. Thats just dishonest.

The only thing I said is that there is no common sense reason to believe that BP wouldn't want this thing plugged all ready because its an undeniable liability for them not to do so. Thats not apologizing for anything. Thats a cold hard cynical fact. It sais nothing positive about their motivations.

You also must understand that there are in fact laws in place that limits the government's power here. I know thats hard to believe, but it actually is true. That wouldn't be a problem if we had a government response unit with the right training, equipment and people to handle a disaster of this nature, but we don't. The closest thing we have, unfortunately, is BP. They have the closest thing to a trained unit equipped to work on something like this. And unfortunately, they don't seem capable either.

[DirkGently]

171. No actually, since you brought it up, your entire argument is dishonest.

There is simply no basis to claim that the oil company should be in charge pending someone submitting detailed plans to you to fix BP's disaster themselves. It's a rhetorical cheapshot favored by rightwingers, and it doesn't belong in any honest discussion.

BP really, actually, literally, has proven itself to be not only the "bad guy," in that it caused this disaster, but it has indisputably proven itself utterly incompetent here. It's obvious it entered into this operation without the slightest consideration of what to do in this contingency, and that it's primary concern now that it's happened is to blame its business partners. Yes, the government could do a better job. The fire department could do a better job. Bozo the Clown could do a better job. BP has the experts? Apparently not. BP has the equipment? Fine. Someone else needs to tell it how to use it. BP has done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt here, it has absolutely the WRONG motivations, and it clearly is at loose ends for a plan. You like insistent questions, but you still can't answer why BP should be running the show.

[phleshdef]

173. Ya know, its OK that you lack the ability to answer the question.

You don't have to get defensive about it and resort to lying about what has been said in this thread just because you have no clue what else the Whitehouse could do at this moment. No one is giving BP the benefit of the doubt on anything. The fact is, this seems like a situation that no one can easily fix. Its perfectly fine for you to admit that you don't have any idea concrete ideas of further actions that could be taken. I do that all the time. Its easy.

[dionysus]

205. you sir, are full of crap.

[Aramchek]

232. so you don't have a solution either. BP has the equipment to work a mile underwater

Can you name anyone else who does??

[ljm2002]

88. I want to see a President who is engaged...

...not one who is aloof from this situation.

I want him to make public statements saying that the press must be allowed access, as the free flow of unbiased information is a bedrock principle of a free country. And then follow up and tell the Coast Guard who they actually work for. Hint: not BP.

I want him to ensure that the available research ships are out there measuring the plumes, not being told to go do something else and to STFU about what they have found so far.

I want him to talk to us about what steps are being taken, and what is being considered, for cleanup and for stopping the gusher.

I want him to look like he gives a damn about something more than the political optics here.

Not seeing it.

[phleshdef]

92. Most of what you just suggested IS just political optics.

And that still doesn't answer my question. What can they do to stop the gusher that they are refusing to do?

[ljm2002]

118. Really?

Most of my suggestions are about political optics? Really? Ensuring press access so we can get unbiased factual information on the effects of this disaster -- that's political optics? Making the Coast Guard work for the people rather than BP, that's political optics? Making sure that research crews are allowed to do fact finding, that's political optics? Informing the public about what is actually being done and what the plans are, that's political optics?

I think those are basic and proper actions of a leader in a crisis situation.

As for what they should be doing that is not being done. Well first of all, of course, without the ongoing information about what is being done and what is being considered, that's a little hard to determine, isn't it? How the hell do we know what they are doing or refusing to do, since they aren't telling us? That list of 1,000 "ships" that are out there -- really. I want to know what are the ships and what they are doing, specifically. Please show me where that is spelled out. I'll be glad to acknowledge that I'm wrong if you can show me the details.

Second, allowing BP to be in control of this operation is s.t.u.p.i.d. Can't say it much plainer than that. Of course BP must remain involved, they are obliged to given that it's their disaster. But to be calling the shots at this late date, that is insane.

Somehow the Coast Guard has the right to enforce BP's wishes and deny our press their guaranteed freedoms, yet we are to believe that the US Government cannot infringe on BP in any way. Free enterprise and all that. Of course, reporters also work for private enterprises, yet the Coast Guard and sheriffs don't see fit to protect their rights. Funny that.

Yes I do want to see a President who looks like he gives a damn. And maybe to you that is political optics. I don't see it that way, I see it as a matter of leadership and being in charge.

[phleshdef]

120. Yes, MOST of your original points were just political optics.

"I want him to make public statements saying that the press must be allowed access, as the free flow of unbiased information is a bedrock principle of a free country. And then follow up and tell the Coast Guard who they actually work for. Hint: not BP."

Political optics that doesn't seal the leak. It makes Obama look in charge. Obama looking in charge doesn't stop the gusher. I'm not saying those are bad things but they don't stop the problem.

"I want him to ensure that the available research ships are out there measuring the plumes, not being told to go do something else and to STFU about what they have found so far."

Not political optics.

"I want him to talk to us about what steps are being taken, and what is being considered, for cleanup and for stopping the gusher."

Thats the President getting out in front, making you feel better by letting you know whats going on. Making you feel better doesn't stop the gusher. Its just political optics.

"I want him to look like he gives a damn about something more than the political optics here."

And actively trying to make sure that you think he is giving a damn is political optics. That goes back to doing things to make you feel better, not stopping the gusher.

I'm not saying that any of your suggestions are bad things. They aren't. But they aren't things that will solve the problem save maybe for bringing in more researchers. At the same time though, we have plenty of researchers on this. They haven't found a solution yet.

[ljm2002]

121. So apparently you missed the reports...

...of the Pelican research vessel, that was reassigned after they made a discovery of a deepwater oil plume.

It's okay, just keep whistling. I'm sure everything that can be done, is being done. After all, BP and the President say so, and who are we to not take it on faith?

Political optics is when you do things specifically to gain political points, to make sure that you look good to whatever part of the electorate you are pandering to that day. That's what it's about.

Leadership includes visibility. Visibility in what actions are being taken is not synonymous with political optics.

[phleshdef]

122. Visibility won't do a damn thing to stop the gusher so yea, its just making you feel better.

And I don't see how in the world a research vessel seeing an oil plume does anything to stop the gusher. I'm asking a very specific question. Going off topic to talk about all the other surrounding problems related to the oil don't answer that question. Those are of course issues that deserve discussion but not in this thread.

[ljm2002]

123. I ask again:

How the hell do we know what they are doing or refusing to do, since they aren't telling us?

[phleshdef]

127. I've read a ton of stories of things they are considering.

We know that they are considering trying to gunk it up with junk. We knew when they were going to attempt to use the dome. We knew when they were trying to run lines to it to get some of the oil captured. We know that they are working on a relief tanker that takes 3-4 months to build. We know that ideas such as blowing it up have been batted around.

I don't think the things they aren't telling us have to do with the actual gusher itself... it seems they are trying not to come forward completely on how severe this is (which I don't need to hear another word on that to know that its REALLY, REALLY severe).

[ljm2002]

131. He has put together a team of scientists...

...he could expand that team, do daily briefings with them, and provide continual and focused Presidential attention on the effort. It is not a specific "thing" but in my experience, that is what crisis leadership is all about: getting the smart folks and the movers and shakers together in a room, getting the ideas out there, removing roadblocks, and ensuring they work actively together towards resolution. So while he has put a team in place, I would like to see him actively involved in running it. Yes, I really think that could help. I understand that he will not be the one providing the specific ideas. But he is by all accounts really good at running "working meetings", if you will. Seems to me his talents could be very effective in shaping these efforts.

By the way, an accurate measurement of the flow could very well be crucial to determining the most effective and safe response. Therefore it is criminal IMO that attempts by scientists to do just that have been blocked.

One thing is for certain. This disaster should put to rest any notion of "safe" deep-sea drilling. It has for me. Before this, I had no idea that they were drilling so deep underwater that submarines can't even go there. And then drilling down another mile or whatever the figure is, meaning the pressures are so enormous we can't control it once it blows.

[Jennicut]

167. Running a meeting will not stop a leak at this depth.

Deep sea drilling is possible, stopping the leak from it involves experimental science. It is frustrating but no amount of meetings would solve that. Obama has no expertise in deep sea drilling. He can get the best people on the job...and the best engineers and scientists are on the job already.

[ljm2002]

178. You don't say...

...really? Gosh, I never knew that! In other words please spare me the condescending attitude, the phrasing of your subject line is disingenuous and you know it.

I am suggesting that this is clusterf*** could use some strong direction from the top. I am suggesting that in situations like this, having the big cheese take charge can actually be helpful in focusing ideas and efforts and expediting activities. A leader does not need to have specialized knowledge in order to exercise these powers.

I absolutely acknowledge that President Obama has done more that our previous piss-poor excuse for a president would have done, and that this disaster is not his fault. It is the direct result of decisions made by GWB and his evil master Richard "Darth" Cheeeeney.

Well time will tell how it all plays out. This seems to be one of those issues where some see a solid response, and others of us think the response is lacking. Once we've taken our positions we talk past one another. I know there are many people right now who are pouring their hearts, souls and formidable intellects into these efforts, and I only hope they are able to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat.

[DirkGently]

170. We'll never know, as long as we leave BP in charge

now, will we? That's the beauty of putting the foxes in charge of the henhouse. Chickens disappear, and the fox says it's doing everything it can to provide henhouse security. And believing the fox has worked out so WELL so far.

The reasons BP should NOT be in charge are many. Take your pick from "BP's greed and incompetence caused the disaster in the first place," to "It's to BP's benefit to delay and confuse and maneuver the situation to cover BP's ass first and the environment never." Frankly, this isn't the kind of proposition anyone needs to prove. This is the "fool me once" scenario to a T.

Meanwhile, in column B, we have whatever reasons you seem to have in mind that BP should be in charge. Again, is BP's fabulous performance in this area so far, it's demonstrably pure motivations, or it's immensely plausible Golf Balls 'n Rubber Plan that should inspire us to leave them in place?

[phleshdef]

172. Where in this thread did anyone say they preferred BP to be in charge?

What part of "the government doesn't have trained units of people equipped to handle something like this" is hard for you to accept?

What part of "BP actually does have the people and equipment to handle (albeit poorly) something like this" is hard for you to accept?

What part of "the government is not allowed to seize all of BPs stuff and then force their employees to do their bidding" do you not get?

I think we all agree that BP can't handle this. But in order to know that (consider NOTHING of this magnitude has happened before) we had to actually see that inability in action. Otherwise, I guess we could just try nuking the damn thing and dealing with whatever could go wrong there later, right? Is that what you are suggesting? Because aside from that, there is nothing else the military is equipped to do.

I don't prefer BP in charge and I'd love for the government to actually be able to swoop in, kick their asses aside and save the day. But thats also "la la land" thinking. And most of the people criticizing the administrations response, when faced with this question of "what else are they suppose to do?" either have to admit that they have no friggin' clue what else the Whitehouse could be doing to stop the gusher or they have to embrace that same kind of "la la land" thinking themselves, which in either case, still does nothing to stop an oil volcano 5,000 feet under the ocean floor.

[DirkGently]

176. Great!

I think we all agree that BP can't handle this. But in order to know that (consider NOTHING of this magnitude has happened before) we had to actually see that inability in action.

And now we have. So BP needs to stand aside. They can work FOR the government, they can work WITH the government. But they can't run the show. They not only haven't earned it, they've demonstrated they've got nothing to offer but screwball plans and excuses.

[phleshdef]

177. I never once disagreed that BP has had their shot and blew it.

But I still don't see any evidence that would indicate that it really matters. I don't think this thing can be easily fixed by anybody. This is a really bad situation.

[IndianaGreen]

113. Obama could set fire to his March 31st offshore drilling plan

which also included reckless new nuclear plants that will leak tritium into our water supply, and more of the bogus "Clean Coal."

It won't stop this gusher, but it might prevent the next one!

[phleshdef]

115. I have a feeling that regardless of what the Obama admin wants to do...

...the public outcry is going to be bad enough that we are going to see a significant reduction in existing drilling and likely no new drilling. The public hasn't gotten to experience the full brunt of what this catastrophe is going to do yet, but once it does, I think offshore drilling is going to see the beginning of its demise.

[donco6]

125. +1

[tranche]

124. Fire Rahm!

[philly_bob]

132. Call a summit of all oil-drillers and the oil industry.

BP has the legal responsibility to pay claims, sure.

But the responsibility for figuring out a solution -- why not get everybody involved?

I realize Halliburton & Exxon are not popular in these parts, but they do have some engineering brainpower.

By staying in the "box" of corporate identity, the government is limiting its solutions.

[phleshdef]

134. That sounds like a good idea, but I think Haliburton would just suggest waterboarding the damn leak.

[golfguru]

149. A beer summit...good idea.

[Hansel]

135. They could get a really big cement truck and a big tube...

perhaps one of those internets tubes, and pour a whole bunch of cement down it.

Anyone with a mile long tube and a really really big cement truck needs to step up now

[stevenleser]

146. Short answer is, no one knows, even those purporting to have answers

They "know" the administration could be doing more despite having no real knowledge of what the administration is doing and despite having no background in petroleum engineering.

[NanceGreggs]

151. A-fuckin'-men. n/t

[Jennicut]

162. I have tried, boy have I tried to get that across.

No one knows. That is worse then incompetence!

[treestar]

203. +100000

And ranting on as if BP and the WH want the thing to keep gushing.

[mzteris]

223. ditto +100000

:thumbsup:

[Number23]

209. Thank you. Some dumbass actually admitted after skewering Obama for "not doing enough"

that s/he "didn't know" what else the administration or anyone could be doing to improve this situation.

This whole thing is an exercise in idiotic screeching and every single person doing it should be embarrassed as hell. Absolutely pathetic what is going on around here regarding this issue.

[Tailormyst]

147. What has you really upset is that someone is less then complimentary Obama's handling of anything

Doesn't really matter what the issue is. You just want them to leave Obama alone..... unless it's something good. THEN he is a superman that get's shit done....right?

[stevenleser]

150. What I think that upsets the OP is the lack of knowledge of those attacking Obama

Have any of them presented any credentials in petroleum engineering? Do any of them really know what the administration has and has not done in response to the spill?

[dionysus]

152. +1

[NJmaverick]

156. Now that was a truly inane and utterly useless post

what a waste of bandwidth

[Lerkfish]

184. unlike yours.

:rolleyes:

[NJmaverick]

188. That's correct, we all saw how badly you got hammered with your

fool hardy ideas that you foolishly thought could save the world

[Lerkfish]

212. at least I offered some

instead of frantically trying to politically fig leaf the situation.

and its clear that you're seeking payback and conducting a personal vendetta against me. LOL.

[phleshdef]

163. Okay, so after you are done playing psychoanalyst expert over the internetz...

...can you offer an answer to the question?

[Jennicut]

164. No, what has me upset is the unwillingness of some to admit

that no one has ever tried to stop a leak at this depth before. This is all experimental and new science. And yet Obama must know how to stop this! He must, right? Someone somewhere must know...and yet, the best scientists and engineers working for the govt. and BP don't know. They are taking guesses and hoping. One guess may work. Let us hope it does.

[mzteris]

224. maybe he should put on a flight suit

stuff his jockstrap, fly onto a carrier in the Gulf and strut around looking all official and stuff.

SHOW PEOPLE HE"S IN CHARGE, dammnit!!

That'll fix things.

[spoony]

169. Yep, like a DA that only takes slam dunk cases

It was explicitly stated in another thread: they don't want Obama doing anything that could possibly fail. It's amazing that even on THIS issue they must put their guy ahead of any other concerns. You know it's happening when you see those few names spouting off with the same talking points.

[donco6]

201. Lather, rinse, repeat.

We've seen it for quite a while now.

[golfguru]

148. What surprised me is the amount of oil gushing out

without any external pressure applied. There must be a huge reservoir just
wanting to gush out there. I understand China, Vier-Nam and 2 other countries
are also extracting oil in the Gulf of Mexico.

[KansasVoter]

153. wow, I'll add you to the 'Obama is perfect' group

[NJmaverick]

155. why?

[Nancy Waterman]

159. Simple solution suggested on a video I saw today

Simple, elegant and inexpensive:

http://www.wimp.com/solutionoil /

[suzie]

204. The environmentalists are deadset against this solution.

TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE, TERRIBLE is what they have to say about it.

[mzteris]

238. why?

What is it they find wrong with it? (I'm curious as to how grass can be harmful to the environment. . . )

[mzteris]

225. Sorry - most here aren't really interested

in a simple, elegant and inexpensive solution.

They just want to scream and rant that "nothing's being done" and offer up (extremely) lame suggestions - if any at all.

[boppers]

160. Specific actions:

1. Nuke/implode the hole with munitions, in hopes of collapsing the well.
2. Sink an aircraft carrier (or other heavy ship) on top of it as a huge plug (small caps haven't worked).
3. Re-activate *every* boneyard airplane in the government's possession that is capable of spreading dispersant, and run them 24/7 over the area until it's cleaned up.

[Kablooie]

180. He could at least insure that the data that is released is accurate.

Allowing BP to spin the thing makes him look complicit in a cover-up.

[Lerkfish]

185. So, in summary, lets look at your views on this disaster.

1. its ok to limit press accessibility for their own safety
2. The press is not being limited at all
3. BP messed up
4. BP is the only one that should be trusted to fix it
5. Unless you know everything technical or scientific on this subject you should just shut up
6. I'm not an expert but I have the right to keep talking.
7. The government is incapable of dealing with this disaster at all.
8. We should trust the government's handling of this disaster completely.
9. No scientists are being denied data or access
10. Those scientists being denied access are idiots or gloryseekers.


I could keep going, but I think you get the point.

[donco6]

200. I think you covered it all. Good work. n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

186. It is not their job to fix this shit....

it is BP's responsibility to clean this shit up, the Whitehouse needs to add regulation and tougher oversight which shrub co forfeited.

[harun]

189. What they can do is move us to an economy not dependant entirely on oil.

[Phx_Dem]

199. Tweety had a brilliant idea yesterday . . .

send some subs down there and put cement on top of it. :think:


Clearly, Tweety does not pay attention to news reports from his own network that reported there are only 4 or 5 subs in the world that can reach that debth and none of them are ours. And if dumping cemend on it was the solution, I'm sure all the engineers and pysicists working to solve the problem would have come up with that brilliant idea.

A simple idea from simple-minded cable pundit.

:crazy:

[OneBlueSky]

202. well, he might try nationalizing every deep sea resource available . . .

in this country, from private industry to colleges and universities to the U.S. Navy, appoint a leader of the group, and tell them to get together, analyze the problem quickly and efficiently, and then "Fix it!" . . . if it CAN be fixed, having the best minds and most technologically advanced resources working together would likely hasten the process . . .

and if it can't be fixed . . . I don't even want to speculate . . .

[TheKentuckian]

211. Rule #1 Legal is not a concern. Will the physics work is my major question

I say bring in every geologist, oilman, explosives expert, theoretical physicist, drilling expert regardless of field, chemist, inventor, computer programmer, and marine biologist.
You get super computers cleared for solution models, tracking flow, and anything else that power can be used for. You get every foreign expert. You bring in environmentalists, educators, and public speakers to explain the situation.
Have scientist combing through little kids random ideas.

You gather every single resource we can muster and have them work and brainstorm across disciplines like our very lives depend on it.

You also shutdown all current sites to be sure we have no additional problems.

[noamnety]

215. At an absolute MINIMUM

He could have mobilized FEMA and the Coast Guard to get the containment booms installed - and installed properly. It's a fucking disgrace on Obama's shoulders that a a month has elapsed without that occurring, and Jindal of all people is having to go over his head to make it happen.

[ensho]

216. first - arrest the criminal barons and their henchmen

2nd - ask the world's most experienced oil drilling people to come and help us. and pay them.

3rd - get as many people on clean up as possible.

[slackmaster]

217. Obama could eat a big meal, skinnydip to the bottom of the Gulf, and take a giant dump into the pipe

Thus sealing it off forever.

[CLANG]

218. Chill out people! Top Kill is coming this week! No worries!!

[agentS]

222. No solutions? I guess I have to step in here

I am no petrochemical expert here, but I suppose the BP/Gov team probably could look into

1) Dropping a big, long tube over the gusher, with a tap at the end of the surface where water can be removed and oil stored in a tanker or something. Anchoring it to the sea floor so currents don't shove it around will be a pain in the ass.
2) Attach some kinda lattice structure to the dome to prevent the methane hydrates from building up in the dome. I would imagine that there has to be some method along to lines to prevent crystal formation.
3) send a submersible down with a remote guided drill and shaped explosive charge. Dig a hole below the surface and blast a section of the pipe shut.

Beyond these 3, I have no further idea.

[SoxFan]

226. Ask Kucinich to lead a drum circle

Need to focus those positive vibrations on the gulf.

[Aramchek]

230. Why would they want to fix it? Obama caused it on purpose, right??

:sarcasm:

[GiveMeFreedom]

233. 5000 feet is deep!

maybe use some sort of plastic tube and tie one end around the spewing hole. This tubing would be like a thick mill plastic that would/could? funnel the oil directly to the surface where a containment area would be setup. Then ships could syphon the oil or the oil could be pumped into their holding tanks. This would give tighter control over the leak and buy valuable time for a permanent cap on the leak. As far as capping it? maybe a concrete square device that is preloaded internally with the drilling mud. Lowered down to the hole, positioned and then the mud is pumped into or released into the hole and the concrete cap is lowered onto the hole to finish the seal. Added plastic/tubes into the concrete cap to capture residual oil and repeat phase one if necessary.

[IndianaGreen]

236. BP has refused EPA's order to change dispersants. What is Obama doing about that?

crickets