Obama gave a timetable. Thats reality. No amount of denial changes that.

[phleshdef]

I am appalled that the usual crowd of "anti-Obama for the sake of being anti-Obama" DUers are stooping so desperately low as to either ignore that we were presented with an exit strategy or are outright denying that it will happen, simply because it doesn't fit their petty little narrative that they so desperately were hoping to push.

This is a responsible plan to do Afghanistan right. The adults are running the show. Get over it.

[KansasVoter]

1. I'll bet you $100 right now the timetable IS NOT MET!!!

[phleshdef]

6. Only because thats what you WANT. It fits your agenda.

You don't care about the war or the troops, you only care about trashing the President. Consider yourself called out.

[LakeSamish706]

11. And you are running around defending the indefencable....n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dgibby]

22. About the troops,

would it be wrong of me to assume that you volunteer at your local VA or military hospital?

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. So let me get this straight. You're saying that the timetable won't be met because KV doesn't want

it to be? Is that what you're saying? That KV has the ultimate say-so in the matter? Wow, who woulda thunk it?

I guess the fact that SecDef Gates has said that the timetable is still just a "strong intent" and not written in stone is lost on you huh?

[ima_sinnic]

68. let's talk about YOUR agenda of bashing anyone who disagrees w the escalation of war

1-2-3-4, gee, we love your stinking war!
WAR! WAR! WAR! RAH! RAH RAH! GOBOMBA!! GO-BOMBA!!! Go-BOMBA!!!

feel better?

[LiberalAndProud]

31. I hope you are wrong. I fear you are right.

I won't take that bet.

[Dr Robert]

39. I'll take that bet. Shall we make it a $100 DU Donation?

[ima_sinnic]

70. that is $100 that DU will never see, b/c that is one bet that poster will win

Withdrawal will start to happen when the PTB, the string-pullers, say it will, or when the country goes belly-up bankrupt, whichever comes first. I think the bankruptcy will end it. This empire cannot escape the "graveyard of empires" just because it has the biggest, baddest weapons on the block and an eloquent front man giving pretty speeches about the "need" for more murder, mayhem, and bloodshed. War incites terrorism, so we are always creating new terrorists. Do people think we're going to simply find and eliminate 100 "terrorists" and then come back to the States, mission accomplished? End of terrorism? We can all go back to la-la land and live happily ever after?
No, there will always be an excuse for a country whose economy and entire standard of living is built on war to wage war. If not Afghanistan, some other place. Boogeymen are easy to create, and the American people are stupid and gullible enough to go along with it, to the point of sacrificing their own children.

[treestar]

52. There is no reason for that

It proves you are determined to be negative at all costs.

Are you saying the same about the Iraq timetable? Because it makes just as much sense.

[Cha]

55. " It proves you are determined to be negative at all costs"

That's a bet I would take..the history is already there.

[HughMoran]

59. Better than not committing to one

I'll take a late withdrawal to none at all. Iraq is late by 2 months - big whoop.

[Dr Robert]

61. I see. You didn't really intend to put your money where your mouth is.

[me b zola]

65. That's the spirit!

:eyes:

[unpossibles]

2. good luck

that's a logical post, and many won't take kindly to that.

[bigjohn16]

3. "taking into account the conditions on the ground"

Secretary of State Clinton

[KansasVoter]

4. He also said 16 months to get out of Iraq WHICH HAS CHANGED ALREADY!

[phleshdef]

5. Not really, Iraq pullout is all ready in process. Deal with it.

[Dawgs]

8. Huh?

They might have changed it by two months, but that's not because he doesn't want to get out sooner.

[phleshdef]

10. Shh, don't mention such facts, that hurts its feelings.

[HughMoran]

60. Only screaming rage posts are permitted

Calmly explaining facts is :crazy:

Remember, this is DU where good is bad.

[ShortnFiery]

34. Yes, in essence he's adopting BushCo and the MIC's schedule. He's their puppet on ...

Afghanistan as well. Sure, he took his time but McCrystal is getting MOST everything he wants ... he probably high-balled them at 40,000 as they prepared to play out this "waltz" for the benefit of us unwashed masses.

[cali]

7. fuck that. you want to support the escalation, feel free, sweetie

but don't fucking tell others that they have to because holy little you does.

It's an escalation. You want to go all Orwellian and call it a withdrawal plan, go for it.

[phleshdef]

9. LOL, such an idiotic use of the word Orwellian.

Afganistan has had no attention and no troops, anyone that would expect us to clean up and pull out with an escalation is a mental midget in regards to military matters. And I'm not your fucking sweetie.

[cali]

14. no, it's really not, genius.

It's primarily an escalation of war, not a withdrawal plan. duh. And your claim of no troops is stupid and false. There are over 60,000 troops now.

And many, many people who are not mental midgets oppose this escalation of war. get a fucking grip and cut the idiot hyperbole.

[phleshdef]

24. There were less than 30 when the President came into office and no, its a silly use of the word.

People that throw words around like that expose themselves for the drama queens that they are and I laugh at them.

This plan gives our troops all ready there the additional backup they need to responsibly set the stage for withdrawal. I see the wisdom in it and anyone who would give it an iota of critical thought could see it as well. Its a withdrawal plan period, you can't change that. I know you would like to so that your bitching actually is worth something, but you can't. Deal with it.

[firedupdem]

12. Rec'd n/t

[Peacetrain]

15. Dear God I was sweating bullets.. With all the brouhaha, on every media

outlet, I began to wonder.. will we hear how to wind this up and wind it down.. I cannot tell you how relieved I was.

[jefferson_dem]

16. Most of the pacifist foamers never liked Obama anyway...

and are seizing upon this opportunity to show their true selves. Let them rant. The fireworks are entertaining.

[cali]

18. I like and admire Obama.

I think he's making a tragic error.

[jefferson_dem]

21. I hear ya, Cali.

As I recall, you were a strong supporter of Obama in the primaries. My comment was not meant to include folks such as yourself. :hi:

[EFerrari]

23. This "pacifist foamer" not only supported Obama but wrote in support

of his campaign.

[Cha]

54. kuch is their guy.

[Hansel]

69. My question is "where was all of this outrage over the past 8 years"

There has been nary a peep about protesting the Afghanistan War or about how horrible it was. When Obama said he thought it was a "just war" during the campaign, very few people even mentioned their concern, although a few did. In fact I sat in a roaring crowd of 20,000 people displaying their approval when he brought it up. And the vast majority were Liberals and Progressives.

Now the massive outrage? Not when the troops were suffering. Not when the Afghani's were being pummeled by the Taliban and Bush's screwed up war strategy? Now that a Democratic president is in power, a president who really does believe he is doing the right thing, now all we hear is outrage? Now they care about the troops and the deaths of the innocent. What took so long? You really have to wonder about all of the outrage and the motives behind it.

There's no problem with being against the war. The issue is the SUDDEN outrage. It just seems a tad over done by some.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

17. There's a reason I'm not getting worked up over this.

You have to understand that a significant portion of DU would be against any war, even if another country or a terrorist group unleashed a plague that killed every first born child in the country. There are a lot of pacifists here that would oppose anything, regardless of the president. You'll not change their minds.

[YvonneCa]

57. Well, hi there...

...Nick! :) Guess what? I agree completely. :7

[ensho]

19. Gitmo is supposed to be closed but its still open and running

nt

[phleshdef]

26. Gitmo wasn't suppose to be closed till early next year, that was ALWAYS the promise and its being...

...carried out. The worst of the detainees are set to be tried, others have been sent to countries that will take them. There is no way to get around that the Gitmo promise is a work in progress and its being carried out, you can't deny that, the facts of all that is happened are against you.

[ShortnFiery]

35. That's because they have re-located their extraditions and torture chambers to

Bahrain. It never ends! We must stop ALL this warmongering and "money pit" allowances to ALL organizations of DEATH and DESTRUCTION.

[phleshdef]

42. There are no torture chambers. What a bunch of "Glen Beck with a left wing spin" bullshit.

[treestar]

58. People who think we can leave Iraq and Afghanistan overnight

Are in no way so appalling to me as people who think Gitmo should just have been closed overnight! Just let those guys go! Now I have always felt bad for most of them, they were just in the wrong place and could have been turned in by vengeful enemies, but even the neocon cabal would have been right every once in a while. KSM is one of them, and I'm not comfortable just letting him out, and it would take time to process each detainee to figure out what to do with them.

[phleshdef]

63. Its a plague of instant gratification oriented ppl who also are unaware that these things...

...require a certain amount of responsible handling and careful planning.

[bigjohn16]

20. President Obama

"Just as we have done in Iraq, we will execute this transition responsibly, taking into account conditions on the ground."

That's not an exit strategy. It's an open ended commitment.

[phleshdef]

27. You can repeat that BS all day and you still look desperate.

[bigjohn16]

30. The July 2011 draw down date is a crock of shit. nt

[phleshdef]

37. So very, very desperate, I feel sorry for you to the point of pity.

I know it hurts to have your prized anti-Obama talking points obliterated by the exit strategy with a clear goal mind.

[bigjohn16]

40. Gates: U.S. troop withdrawal may not begin in July 2011 - statement president's 'strong intent'

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7136290

[phleshdef]

41. Of course they are going to be responsible and make sure its possible to get everyone out safely...

in a timely fashion. Just like they did Iraq. And thats working. I know, that one has got to hurt too.

[bigjohn16]

43. You were sold a lemon last night. Sorry. nt

[phleshdef]

46. I was sold a solid plan, a responsible plan... something you aren't intellligent enough to get.

[bigjohn16]

48. Good luck with that. nt

[tekisui]

29. Like hell he did.

He gave an earliest possible date to begin thinking about withdrawal. Any movement will be based on conditions on the ground. The pace and the end point are no more defined than they were in 2001.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[avaistheone1]

32. I am sure the Taliban are shaking in their caves at the news of the president's timetable.

:scared:



:sarcasm:

[ShortnFiery]

33. With regard to major Military Operations, "an exit strategy" is wishful thinking at best.

:eyes:

Especially when you're talking about exiting in the DISTANT future. Conditions will change on the ground that will keep us there, say 50 years. :wow:

UNLESS, we admit to OURSELVES that al Qaeda is contained and it was NOT the Taliban who attacked us on 9/11 ... and just DO IT! - Pull our combat troops out of Afghanistan.

Newsflash: The Taliban will wait us out and we have already LOST the battle for the hearts and minds of the Afghani people. THEY LOATH THE OCCUPYING FORCE AND KNOW THAT THE TALIBAN WILL EVENTUALLY RETURN.

So unless there's increasing hordes of Americans willing to re-settle over in that mountainous area, let the local people work through their inevitable CIVIL WAR and then step in with humanitarian aid when security is under control.

BTW Al Qaeda is hated by the Afghani People, ALMOST as much as "the occupying forces" so there's no risk of them taking over.

LET THE NATIVES WORK IT OUT - without our Military getting caught in the crossfire of THEIR civil war.

[grasswire]

36. Gates is already hedging on the deadline

So I guess you are wrong.

[tekisui]

50. They got to use the exit date smke screen for about 16 hours.

:rofl:

[Clio the Leo]

44. I never thought I'd see the day when John McCain and a chunk of DU agreed w/one another

But it happened today.

I especially love the cry of "well what if the Taliban decides to just wait the 18 months out!!!?" to which Gates replied, "we would love that, it would make our jobs a lot easier."

[tekisui]

49. Well, to be fair, those supporting the surge are with

McConnell, Steele, Rove, Palin, the Taliban, etc.

[NYC_SKP]

45. Fuckin A! I love this post. Any post with the phrase "Get over it" gets a Rec from Me!!!!

:rofl:

"
This is a responsible plan to do Afghanistan right. The adults are running the show. Get over it."

I wish I'd said that!

:applause:

[billh58]

51. IBTL

It appears that anything positive being posted about President Obama is being locked.

[Cha]

53. Oh, they're real good at plugging

up their ears.

[TexasObserver]

56. Nonsense. The opposition is to the war, not to HIM.

I realize it's hard for those who don't think critically to understand why some of us backed the president strongly, but will not back him in this Bush II, the Sequel, in Afghanistan.

Your broad brushed attack on those who oppose his war policy is lame.

The adults are not running the show. The military and the war party are.

[MadHound]

62. What timetable?

Yeah, he said he would begin troop drawdowns in the summer of '11, but he didn't say when he would have all the troops out of there. Hell, Nixon began pulling out troops in '69, and look how long it took for him to get us out of Vietnam.

Then there's his little statement about going to fight Al-Qaeda wherever they run to. Oh boy, endless war forever and ever, amen.

You're being played for a sucker, too bad it's going to take a few years before you realize or admit that fact.

[msallied]

64. The moving of their goalposts continues.

They complained about endless war, and when they were given a timetable, they clamor that it won't be met. Not based on any actual evidence. Just their need to continue bitching about something.

[backscatter712]

66. The timetable's an improvement.

Before, the official word from the White House and the Pentagon was "We'll pull out when it's done" and talking about decades-long missions and that sort of thing.

Now we're talking about pulling out in a year and a half. That's a hell of an improvement over the previous talk of permanent occupation.

This also has the virtue of lighting a fire under the ass of doucheclowns like Karzai, motivating them to make a government that at least halfway works, which will help get us closer to bringing the troops home.

[ClarkUSA]

67. Pres Obama says July 2011 is "locked in for Afghanistan withdrawal" (link -->)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x34070

Deny that, assholes! :)