Should Rick Warren have been invited to speak at the inauguration?

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

Every time Rachel Maddow does the Ugandan anti-GLBT laws story (shocking penalties, like life in prison for being gay and death in some instances, and three years in prison for people who do not report a GLBT person to the government) about how these policies have been abetted by American politicians and famed evangelicals, when it gets to the file footage of Rick Warren speaking in Uganda declaring Uganda a "purpose-driven nation" I wince and think, "Geez... was DU actually divided on the propriety of this bastard being invited to bless the incoming president?"

The poll is meant primarily to gauge changes in how Warren is perceived on DU. I'm assuming he's dropped somewhat in our collective esteem. This poll might seem gratuitous to folks who don't watch Rachel Maddow, but that damn clip has been on several nights in a row and it's a real vomit-in-the-mouth sort of thing. (i.e. :puke:)

And yes, given that introduction this probably qualifies as a push poll... but let's call it a purpose-driven poll instead :eyes: (Also, I apologize to the two folks who accidentally voted yes on this now-edited-for-clarity poll.)

Polls are a snap-shot in time. From the perspective of this moment in time...

Should Rick Warren have been invited to speak at the inauguration?

[eppur_se_muova]

1. Where's the HELL NO!! option?

Gotta split the vote, y'know.

[Better Today]

2. The day I found out he was going to be involved in the inauguration

I cringed a cringe that wrinkled me from brow to big toe. Absolutely the most insulting thing Obama has done in the time I've been paying attention to what he's doing.

[Clio the Leo]

3. He should be conscripted and sent to Afpakistan...

... I bet we could all agree on that.

[Better Today]

4. Oops, I didn't read the whole OP before voting and voted according to the

title's comment instead of the actual question at the end of the OP. I think you might want to change some how sync them up.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

9. My apologies!

I made them agree. Thanks for pointing out the ambiguity.

[Better Today]

11. Yeah, but now my vote is forever recorded as wrong, I feel so dirty.

You're forgiven though.

[LiberalFighter]

5. No minister should be personally invited. But

if a minister requests an invite than fine for them to attend. But not on the platform.

[jgraz]

6. Dude, your thread title and poll question reverse the polarity

You should probably start over...

[tekisui]

7. Yeah, I messed up my anwser.

[jgraz]

16. You also messed up "answer"

:P

[tekisui]

62. lol.

:hi:

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

8. Sorry! Removed the ambiguity.

[jgraz]

14. Well, I'm one of the people now registered as IN FAVOR of Rick Warren

:spank:

[Starry Messenger]

10. Fuck no.

Warren's hateful views and connections were well known at the time. His "ability" much touted here at DU to peel off moderate votes in the legislature has proved a farce thus far. He should have been removed from the event.

[tblue]

12. What has Obama got against The Left? Why does he keep giving us a thumb in the eye?

Why does he not wholeheartedly embrace us and instead "makes nice" with every other constituency? Why doesn't he like us? What did we ever do to him?

Rick Warren was our communitarian president's first slap in the face to the Dem base.

[jgraz]

15. The better question is

Why do we keep sticking our eye on his thumb?

[tblue]

18. Lol! nt

[Hissyspit]

13. I turned my back to him while standing on the Capitol lawn

at the inauguaration.

[TankLV]

17. Never liked the hypocritical lyling asshole then, don't like the hypocritical lying asshole now...

[SpartanDem]

19. No, but the reaction was over kill

and gave him more attention for what ended being a run of the mill prayer. Just as when the right wing blows a fuse and demands some movie or music be boycotted only to draw more attention to it the same thing happened on the left.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Rick Warren supports the death penalty for LGBTs

Warren supports Uganda's bill to execute gays.

[QC]

37. Which of your legal rights has Warren led the fight to eliminate? n/t

[kenny blankenship]

66. No, but the denial still is .

[dmr]

20. Absolutely not!

He's a liar by omission. He uses the Christian faith in his political games. Throws the rock but hides his hand, & won't own up to it when called out on it.

All I can say about the inauguration is that no one can say the new president didn't try to embrace all those along the political spectrum. At least he got that bi-partisan bullshit out of the way.

[ZombieHorde]

21. No, Warren was a horrible choice. Playing a fast food commercial would have been more tasteful. nt

[randr]

22. A cast of pearls before swine

The gesture to the radical right was never acknowledged or respected as such.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

23. Even though I guess there was some confusion originally with the poll

This hateful person still managed to get 14 votes, I hope it was exclusively because of the confusion.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

29. No, it seems that only two, maybe three of those are accidental

The confusion was cleared up early.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

30. I am shocked but then again maybe I shouldnt be

What is going on around here?

[QC]

40. No, you shouldn't be shocked. Not at all. n/t

[saltpoint]

24. I would like to have the transcript of any private conversations Warren

held with Barack Obama, as I believe they would establish that Warren sensed immediately that Obama could not be trifled with, could not be bullied or pressured, especially using the Bible because Obama likely knows the Bible as well as Warren, and perhaps in larger context.

In essence I believe Obama is more qualified for his current job than Warren ever will be for his job, that Obama can be a world leader or if he had to, a minister or religious scholar, where Warren would make a poor world leader and isn't all that hot as an evangelist.

Warren has the luxury of his bigotry but in the same room with a mind like Obama's, my guess is that Warren was effectively neutralized.

[polichick]

42. If Warren was of no consequence to Obama he wouldn't have been given the honor...

...of speaking at the inauguration.

[IndianaGreen]

25. Rick Warren supports the death penalty for LGBTs

Obama's pals are Rick Warren and "cured" gay Donnie McClurkin, while LGBTs still have to suffer under DOMA, DADT, and no ENDA.

[HughMoran]

27. Didn't have to watch Rachel to know what these haters were pushing

I read DU - was posted here first :)

And no, thugs who promote hate like that have no place speaking anywhere around civilized people.

[DailyGrind51]

28. Should Julius Ceasar have crossed the Rubicon?

That is history also!

[QC]

39. Unfortunately, Rick Warren is not history.

He's right in the midst of some very evil shit, including a proposed law in Uganda that will imprison or execute gays, as well as lock up any straight people who don't turn them over to the police.

If only it were true that Warren was ancient history.

[DailyGrind51]

78. Remember what eventually happened to Julius Caesar?

[yellowcanine]

31. Of course this story comes well after the inauguration so it is kind of pointless, imo.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. Incorrect.

Warren is in the news right now for his ties to vile murderous bigotry in Uganda. Because Obama put Warren in such a place of honor, it is also very to the point to ask what Obama has to say about Uganda, and Warren, and those bigots he has praised as 'good, decent, and moral people'.
In Uganda, they intend to murder gay people, and imprison straights who do not turn us in. And calling that out is pointless? Interesting priorities.

[yellowcanine]

64. Not what I said is pointless. I stand by my judgment. If you want a serious discussion, don't put

words in my mouth.

[DailyGrind51]

100. I would have preferred Rev. Jerimiah Wright or Rev. Michael Pfleger.

Both were personal friends of Obama, when he resided in Chicago, and both have very strong Progressive credentials.

[Rhythm]

32. Thought "Fuck No" then, and said so... Think it even more now.

There should have never been even a moment of time given to that ego-bloated, bigoted fuckwit.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

34. "Rick Warren's Dissertation Advisor Leads Network Promoting Uganda Anti-Gay Bill"

Rick Warren's Dissertation Advisor Leads Network Promoting Uganda Anti-Gay Bill
By Bruce Wilson Fri Dec 04, 2009 at 01:44:35 PM EST
By Bruce Wilson & the New Apostolic Reformation Research Group

In 2008 Rick Warren declared that, following Rwanda, Uganda was the world's second official "Purpose Driven" nation. Uganda is currently in the news because of a bill before the Ugandan legislature that would establish the death penalty for homosexual acts and, critics charge, might even require the execution of HIV-positive Ugandan citizens.

Some observers have wondered if Purpose Driven Life author and mega-evangelist Rick Warren has had a role in the globally controversial bill, especially because of Warren's close association with Ugandan anti-gay activist Martin Ssempa and, more broadly, because Warren has refused to denounce the anti-gay bill.

To little notice, a charismatic network overseen by Warren's doctoral dissertation advisor, C. Peter Wagner, has played a major role in politically organizing and inspiring the Ugandan legislators who have spearheaded the anti-gay bill.

more:
http://www.talk2action.org/story/2009/12/4/134435/084

[Vidar]

35. Hell no!

[Starry Messenger]

36. kick.

Brave Warren defenders, why don't you share with the class? What is the justification now?

[polichick]

38. Must be the "Obama can do no wrong" crowd voting yes. Good grief! nt

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

43. More intriguing is the rec/unrec battle

You see this on a lot of polls. Unable to win the actual poll battle some turn to unrecing the poll.

Since it occurs to few people to rec or unrec a poll it's not unusual to see popular polls that support the "wrong answer" rec'd down by the net warriors.

As of this writing this post is right at zero recs, but that is the result of a very active back and forth battle.

[polichick]

44. K&R - it's one up now. :)

[PBS Poll-435]

45. Not anymore :(

[polichick]

46. Wow, that was quick!

[treestar]

81. You're disappointed - this issue was going to be the one to force people

to hate the President! Now you'll have to keep looking!

[PBS Poll-435]

41. It is December, 2009. Who FUCKING cares?

I was upset at the time, but i don't see the need to recycle this now.

[polichick]

47. He's back because of the situation in Uganda of course. Keep up! nt

[jberryhill]

65. And the inaugural prayer is still going on?

Man, that's been one long prayer.

[PBS Poll-435]

80. It'll be over any minute now....

[QC]

83. So which of your legal rights has Warren been instrumental in removing?

I suspect that it's easy for you to be cavalier about him, as he's no threat to you and those who do consider him a threat insist on harshing your Kool Aid buzz.

[PBS Poll-435]

91. I would argue that he has had no impact on my legal rights.

Nothing.

But feel free to tell me the legal rights that you had before that Warren took away or helped take away.

[QC]

93. Gay people in California had the right to marry, until a little over a year ago.

Now they do not, thanks to an initiative that Rick Warren campaigned for.

Soon gay people in Uganda may be subject to life imprisonment and execution, thanks to a law that Warren has played a role in pushing. Their friends and family will be subject to imprisonment for failing to turn them in.

The man is not a thoughtful moderate or anything like that. He is a Dominionist (and ironically, for someone who claims to be the very picture of theological orthodoxy, a Pelagian.)

The man is a fraud and a public menace.

[PBS Poll-435]

95. The man is a fraud and a menace to all

That I can agree with you on.

I live in Texas, so marriage equality is a long way off unless the Supreme Court does something. (The desired outcome is probably going to take another nomination.)

[QC]

96. It's a long way off in Florida, too.

We had a marriage initiative on the ballot last fall.

It hurts to drive around your own community and see billboards accusing you of being a danger to children, but what is worse is seeing such things in the yards of your neighbors.

I wouldn't wish that on someone I hated.

[PBS Poll-435]

97. Right there with ya. n/t

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

50. And I don't see the need for you to reply to it, but hey...

not all conversation is on a "need" basis.

I was curious whether anyone would still defend the Warren pick in light of ten months of pug and evangelical hate and obstruction and attacks on LGBT.

And it seems that some do... albeit anonymously.

[PBS Poll-435]

51. I never defended the decision. I just don't see the need to bring it up again

It just brings out the crazy in some.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

54. It is asked in light of recent news, but I do understand your point

When I posted it I knew it would appear to some to be gratuitous scab-pulling, but the impetus was the developing story of Rick Warren's tangential involvement in and/or tacit support of something in the real world too horrific to gloss over.

So to me it is timely.

But I do see your point.

[PBS Poll-435]

58. Bigots like Warren need to be marginalized.

And you can't do that while discussing them as contemporaneous.

[smalll]

70. Exactly! This nonsense is on the level of rehashing old Primary Wars flame-fests.

Gee, I wonder if I should do an OP rehashing Snubgate! :shrug:

[QC]

77. Unfortunately, Rick Warren is not history.

It is now clear that he has played a role in the proposed law in Uganda that will imprison and/or execute gay people, as well as lock up those who know someone is gay and fail to hand him or her over to the police.

No, Rick Warren is not old news.

[PBS Poll-435]

79. The inauguration is old news.

Like almost 11 months old. Perhaps a better question, rather than rehashing nearly year-old bullshit, would be if Warren should be invited to speak at the inauguration in 2012.

[QC]

82. I think that the people who were set upon by a shrieking mob last December

for having the audacity to speak out against the selection of Warren don't consider this old news.

Do you remember that? All the shouts of "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO RUIN THIS FOR THE REST OF US!!!" and ponies and poutrage and all that? Quite a few good, loyal longtime DUers got run off during one of the ugliest times in this history of this board--and I have been here since 2001, so I have seen a lot of ugly, but last December wins the prize.

I think some of us would just like some acknowledgment that Warren is not, in fact, a thoughtful moderate we should "reach out" to but instead the bigot that we insisted he was back then, when we were told we were just filled with poutrage because we didn't get our pony.

[PBS Poll-435]

85. That is specifically why I don't think it should even be brought up again

I remember how ugly and malignant this place was then. What happened can't be "undone."

And now that Warren has proven himself to be an even bigger douchebag, what is the point of bringing up the inauguration? Are we going to take the Administration to task because in December/January they invited a bigot idiot to say a prayer at the inauguration who would later make news regarding Uganda?

Did his gig in January propel him to international diplomatic and legislative fluency?

[QC]

87. I disagree. People need to remember that ugliness and stop doing it.

We are seeing the same kind of malignance being ginned up right now against those opposed to the escalation, who are being likened to teabaggers.

Not surprisingly, the very same people who were trying to purge the queers last December are the ones trying to drive off the "leftbaggers" right now. Plus ca change....

[PBS Poll-435]

89. I guess we are never going to see eye-to-eye on this

But know that I respect your opinion very much.

(And you are a big asset to DU)

:)

[QC]

90. Thank you. I have always felt the same way about you.

I have long enjoyed your wit, which our little community really needs. You have a gift for breaking tension and making important points in light, indirect ways. I really appreciate that.

[ruggerson]

48. It was just a prayer

Lighten up. So he supports a regime that kills gay people here and there.

It was far more important that President Obama be seen symbolically as a welcoming, bipartisan figure who is inclusive of bigiots and doesn't shun them.

Obama's image is more important than a human rights movement.

The gays are only like 6% of the population. What harm did it do?

[polichick]

49. What harm did it do?! It essentially slapped Obama's gay supporters in the face...

...along with those of us who support them. DUH!

On edit: looks like the DUH is on me - missed the sarcasm.

[QC]

53. But look at how it made the right wing rally around the president!

See how much cooperation from them he has gotten, and how they have stopped slandering him!

[ruggerson]

55. In hindsight the Warren choice was brilliant

it completely stopped movements that might have cropped up questioning the legitimacy of birth certificates and throwing tea into Nascar pits.

Who knows what hateful groups might have done if Warren had not had his moment in the spotlight.

[polichick]

60. And all those evangelicals and Catholics in the faith-based office helped too! nt

[QC]

61. See, your kind just plays checkers, not 555,887,556,953-dimensional chess. n/t

[polichick]

57. LOL

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

56. (Ruggerson was being sarcastic)

[polichick]

59. That's what I get for reading too fast. :)

[treestar]

88. And every positive thing the President has done since then on the issue

Wouldn't even be counted. So it was a big mistake.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

52. 6% and dropping if some get their way

[Starry Messenger]

63. Exactly, he's President of the UNITED STATES

6% pfeh, that's like a hangnail on the body politic.

[Common Sense Party]

67. He didn't speak. He gave a prayer.

Most people never heard it, anyway.

[kenny blankenship]

68. English - DO YOU SPEAK IT??

[Common Sense Party]

69. A veces, sí, y a veces, no. Depende.

[polichick]

76. That's no excuse for the president putting him in the limelight. nt

[EFerrari]

71. I can't believe this question is even being asked here.

The man is a grifter and a bigot.

[ruggerson]

94. but you gotta love his fun, oversized hawaiian shirts

[QC]

98. They, and the goatee, prove that he is just a loveable regular guy.

Certainly no dangerous, un-American fanatic is our Rick, nosiree.

[Peace_Sells]

72. Rick Warren is an asshole.

So fuck him.

[JI7]

73. NO

[grantcart]

74. Beyond the more obvious damage he has done to civil rights is

less well known betrayal of his Seminary education.

He attended Fuller and accept its conservative but mainline theologic and bibilical teaching. As a candidate for a Doctorate he supported evolution but when he is trolling for dollars he supports Creationism.

He accuses Shaivo of being a Nazi.


The many is intellectual bubble gum.

[TexasObserver]

75. No

[VMI Dem]

84. He reflects the Presidents view on gay marriage.

Why wouldn't he have been invited?

[treestar]

86. It was clearly a mistake in hindsight

Because now the President will get blamed for everything Warren does.

I get the concept of inclusion of all - that is OK for the inauguration, too bad he could not have picked someone less likely to cause a problem. Maybe among right wing fundies such a person can't be found.

[LaydeeBug]

92. I was *****just***** getting over that, because I'm Irish and we hold grudges...

and I am not as upset about Afghanistan either. He is between a rock and a hard place. But health care? Get out my regalia...

[jberryhill]

99. Yes - it set him up to be discredited

There are people who wouldn't know much about him but for his involvement in the "faith debate" and the Inauguration.

If not for that visibility, he would just be another misleader of his flock.

He has been handed the rope with which to hang himself, and he has now performed well in that regard. He has been exposed as a lying hypocrite in a way that would not have been otherwise possible.

[Jamastiene]

101. Of course not, but we sure had a hard time convincing all the people

around here with blinders of that. Actually, I don't think we ever did convince them. Some of them seem to STILL not be convinced...sadly.

[David Zephyr]

102. Fred Phelps could have done just as well.

If you are going to honor a homophobic pastor, why not get the 100% brew?

[DailyGrind51]

103. How about, "Speak, roll over, and play dead!"?