Not happy with Obama? Let's talk about where we would be if McSame and Wolf Shooter had won:

[RBInMaine]

1) Combat operations escalated in Iraq, NOT ending.
2) No Afghanistan timeline. ENDLESS war.
3) Little to no stimulus. Little or no green energy investment. DRILL BABY DRILL !! YAY!
4) GITMO FOREVER. KEEP ON WATERBOARDING !!
5) US car industry GONE. Not making the Chevy Volt. Not hiring 55,000 workers. Etc.
6) ZERO unemployment insurance extentions.
7) ZERO progress on healthcare.
8) ZERO progress on Wall Street reform.
9) NO SCHIP extention.
10) NO fair pay law.
11) NO elimination of reproductive choice prohibitions.
12) TAX CUTS FOR MILLIONAIRES EXTENDED FOR FUCKING EVER. YAY !
13) NO work to end DADT.
14) *** Two more right wingers on the SCOTUS for fucking LIFE. How about that one. YAY !
15) Hundreds of thousands of cops, firefighters, and teachers off the job with more crime, more deaths from fires, and 40 kids per classroom.

And just how about those jobs numbers? Hm. Wonder just where they would be? Gaining at least some jobs, or at 15% or so straight unemployment?

Think about it folks. This all sound good? If not, keep working for Dems, voting for Dems, supporting Obama and Dems, and thanking our lucky freaking stars we have them. Remember the Bush days? We're fucking-A goddamn well better off today than we were under Chimpy, or would be under Grumpy Grampy and the Alaska-Import Whacko Lady.

[rug]

1. And imagine if Reagan were still alive.

[RBInMaine]

4. Shit, if so they'd re-nominate him they way they adore him, even if he was 100 years old.

[Ken Burch]

5. OK...he'd be really old...his mind would be completely gone...and he'd need diapers

In other words, pretty much like the old days.

Was there a REASON you wanted us to imagine that?

[RBInMaine]

6. When he said he "didn't remember" about Iran/Contra, he wasn't lying. He ALWAYS had Alzheimers.

[roguevalley]

19. apples and oranges. I can be unhappy with Obama and vote for

him and being unhappy with him doesn't merit a lecture on what it would be like if the other assholes won. I, unlike most of you on this board, have already had 2.5 years of what it would be like with caribou barbie in charge. I can criticize obama when I feel like he and I part ways. I don't need my loyalty as a dem or a du-er questioned with examples like this because that is what it feels like. Ask me questions about what its like to live under an idiot's rule.

[RBInMaine]

37. Has Obama ever done a single thing that you like? Or is it only criticism?

[cheapdate]

119. Is there anything relevant here?

You're annoyed with the "lecture," which you feel was unmerited for you specifically, I got that. But you're annoyed because your loyalty is being questioned? Where did that come from?

[jenmito]

2. This is very rational. K&R up to 0. n/t

[firedupdem]

3. Scares the crap out of me! K&R! n/t

[discopants]

7. ...and they would still have blamed Obama for all of it.

[Grown2Hate]

8. The reason I will K&R this thread is specifically #14. I CANNOT be stressed

ENOUGH how important this is. Imagine if we had TWO MORE right wingers on the court right now (a 7-2 minority on the HIGHEST court in the land, with no end in sight). That ALONE would be devastating, and should give one pause. However, it doesn't mean we stop PUSHING President Obama (et. al) to the left. The push must continue, but without cutting our own throats. "MAKE me do the right thing." We must take that to heart.

[sandnsea]

9. Hell let's talk about where we'd be if Kucinich had won

And that would be nowhere because absolutely NOTHING would have passed Congress.

[RBInMaine]

36. Yup. And the truth that some just can't understand is that Kuinich can not win nationally. Period.

[Bluenorthwest]

50. Kucinich is an elected Democratic member of the United States

House of Representatives, holding that seat by the choice of the voters of his districts, much in the same way that your State picks Republicans to sit in those chambers.
And the only person talking about Congressperson Kucinich is you. Slamming a Democrat, for extra points I guess.
Maine puts Snowe and Collins in the way of progress. Why is it that you feel no urgency to make that right? You take issue with elected Democrats, with Democratic voters, and your state elects nothing but mealy mouthed Republicans.
Good show! My Rep is Peter DeFazio, want to slam him too? Obama does. So feel free. We don't care. He is cross nominated by the Democratic and Independent Parties of Oregon, and will waltz to victory.
Jeff Merkely, Democrat, sits in the Senate now in his second year, next to Ron Wyden, Democrat, both elected by the people of Oregon.
So you are telling me what now? How to elect Snowe? Sorry, not interested. I elect Democrats. If you want some tips, feel free to ask. Or, just keep sending the GOP to the highest Chamber, for all time, and keep lecturing other Democrats, who actually elect Democrats.
The proof is in the pudding.

[frylock]

70. rock on!

:thumbsup:

[RBInMaine]

92. BS ! I only said he couldn't win NATIONALLY. He can win in Cleveland, but not everywhere.So Chill !

[niceypoo]

140. US senate isnt a local office

It is a national office

[Enthusiast]

142. Right fucking on! nt

[niceypoo]

61. Show your proof that he cannot win nationally

Cuz you say so just doesnt cut it.

[phleshdef]

71. The proof is in how many times he has tried and, every time, epically failed to get anywhere.

[Bobbie Jo]

76. Well, there's that...

:rofl:

[fujiyama]

85. Show some proof that he can win even statewide

then we'll talk about national aspirations.

[niceypoo]

139. Pssssst!!

He was elected to the senate 6 times

[Starbucks Anarchist]

145. No, he was elected to the House from his district.

He's not a senator.

[niceypoo]

151. The house is a federal office

[SoxFan]

152. Ask and you shall receive

How did Kucinich do in the 2008 Democratic primaries, where "The Based" should have its greatest influence?

New Hampshire was the high-water mark. He received 1.35% of the vote. This was in a state where he received decent media coverage and had a competent campaign manager.

Arizona: 0.43%
Arkansas: 0.13%
Connecticut: 0.24%
Delaware: 0.20%
Georgia: 0.20%
Illinois: 0.21%
Mass: 0.24%
California: 0.34%
Missouri: 0.10%
Tennessee: 0.16%
Louisiana: 0.37%
DC: 0.16%
Wisconsin: 0.24%
Vermont: 0.65%
Minnesota: 0.16%
New York: 0.45%
New Jersey: 0.28%
New Mexico: 0.38%

[mkultra]

59. well, you never need to worry about that

He can never win.

[Orsino]

86. The kind of America that would elect a Kucinich...

...is the kind of America that would accomplish far more than this one has.

It's also the kind of America we should be trying to build.

[Enthusiast]

143. +1! nt

[frylock]

10. thought provoking..

you should start a thread.

[KingFlorez]

11. 15% unemployment is right

And bombs over Tehran.

[polly7]

18. I really do think they'd have bombed Iran by now, or at least made

concrete plans to do so.

My opinion only.

[treestar]

39. Bingo. They'd be revving the populace up

over some incident that has actually happened but has been passed on by now - it'd be all over the media, whatever it is.

[BeyondGeography]

12. Surprised at all the unrecs, then again, a thread promoting Kerry's anti-hepatitis plan was unrec'd

here last night.

Just so you know, some of you have gone batshit crazy.

[ibegurpard]

14. I unrecced it

Apparently my unhappiness at the Democrats' promotion of conservative policy and ideology means I think Republicans are just peachy.

[BeyondGeography]

15. Sigh...Conservative policy and ideology is nothing close to what Democrats are "promoting"

But thanks for coming clean with your muddled thinking, anyway.

[Dragonfli]

23. You are either very young or simply incorrect

Busting unions, empowering corporations via threat of IRS penalties for non purchase of a faulty product.
The belief that equal rights are only for the "more equal than others" crowd (in other words straight Christians).
Supply side bail-out strategies, rendition, illegal wars, the belief that known felons should not be charged with crimes if they are the political elite.

These things (and unfortunately I could go one for at least two more paragraphs) were once considered conservative policies and ideologies, and they (conservatives) still agree with them in principle, it is only recently that they have been adopted by the Democrats as well (beginning with the DLC in the early nineties) and made sacrosanct by the Obama/Reid/Emanuel Democratic leadership.

Many of us still hold to the ideology and policies of the former Democrats and understandably see very little difference between the parties now that the hard right DLC leadership has made our policy nearly identical to Reagan's.


If you are a young man then you were brought up under the new Democrats and simply don't understand what Democrats are supposed to stand for, I suggest reading as much as you can about FDR as a primer to understand why these policies are right wing to people that understand policy.

[BeyondGeography]

29. What a pedantic bit of irrelevant condescension

Anyone who invokes FDR without acknowledging the obvious fundamental differences between his age and ours (he was most popular with southern whites and race was a relative non-factor in national political outcomes as was the now corporate-owned media, just for starters...oh yeah, I could on for two paragraphs but you're not worth it) is living in cloud cuckoo-land.

[TBF]

34. Fine, you are young and smart and will do it yourselves.

You won't need any of us over-40 types to campaign, give donations, phone-bank, help during election day, and walk door to door. You have no interest in us or our experiences.

Good to know, in 2012 I'll have more time and money on my hands for other activities, because I sure won't make the mistake of helping folks who are so ungrateful. Good luck with your election.

[BeyondGeography]

Dupe

[BeyondGeography]

54. And what "experiences" would those be?

I'm turning 51 this year (only on the Internet would I be called young...how exciting). My experience is watching government be systematically undermined and dismantled for the past three decades, very often by the same people who once supported FDR (starting with Ronald Reagan himself and the legions of white Americans who fell for him). This is not a criticism of FDR, mind you, just of those who mindlessly point to him as whom Obama should emulate (give him 60-70% of the working/middle class white vote and Obama would out-FDR FDR).

At long last, Obama starts the process of reversing all of that history and restoring some power to government and a) the Right calls him a socialist and b) many "progressives" call him a conservative sellout and issue idle threats of non-support in future elections as "punishment," like you and Professor Whatshisname above. Self-destructive empty-headedness, that's what's really getting old.

[TBF]

56. If you are 51 you should remember Reagan -

please explain how Obama's rush to privatize everything is different from his policies. Also please explain (with details) how Obama has "reversed" anything since Bush's rule. The only one I will give you is Kagan - she is a fair choice and would not have been appointed under a repub. Health care was a sell-out, education is being privatized under Duncan, war is escalating in Afghanistan. Social Security and Unemployment are being threatened. So tell me how this is any different from the last 30 years.

As far as "idle threats" - you all can take your chances. Completely alienating your base is not a good idea. Just my opinion, but I predict if that continues you will see big losses in 2010 and 2012.

[BeyondGeography]

57. It's not for me to explain anything to you

or any other lost soul on the Left who can't tell the difference between Obama and Reagan or Obama and Bush.

[TBF]

67. We're not lost - we're paying close attention

and we can see damned well that voting the rascals out ain't workin' for us. By "us" I mean those who work for a living (whether our salary is minimum wage or in the six-figures). If you are not living off your stock portfolio, then chances are you're probably a working stiff whether you yet admit to it or not.

So we'll have to try something new.

[DonCoquixote]

88. what about Sotomayor

Is she chopped liver?

[DonCoquixote]

87. Groan

Some of the young may be jerks, but it is also foolish to ignore the fact that FDR had Southern Whites behind him, something Fox has taken care of.

[joe black]

112. You got that right.

+ a billion.

[inna]

62. "irrelevant condescension" and "muddled thinking" -- a pure projection on your part.

And so is "living in cloud cuckoo-land". :shrug:


In addition, you're very rude.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cheapdate]

120. Sigh...

"I could go on for at least 2 more paragraphs"
"I suggest reading as much as you can about FDR"

There's this person who sends me notes about the coming "Islamification" of the U.S. He's always going on about his years of "research." I sometimes ask him to give me something concrete as a point of discussion, and I get something like the above. I blame our schools.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SoxFan]

154. "the hard-right DLC leadership"

Like Bill and Hillary Clinton?

[LostinVA]

33. +1

Exactly why I unrecced it.

[Cant trust em]

13. Let's not. It's not relevant. nt

[Warren Stupidity]

16. wow is it list-attack night or what?

p.s. your list is even less well thought out than the previous one.

[elocs]

17. Oh boy! The "what if" and "would be" game.

Is it possible to have supported Obama and work to elect him and still be disappointed in him? Does this really need to be portrayed as an either/or scenario?

[Exilednight]

26. It's the only thing .............

the die-hards have left. To be honest, half the list is a bunch of bullshit.

It still remains to be seen if the two Obama appointments to the SCOTUS are true progressives, or if they are like Ginsburg. Ginsburg is progressive on social issues, but she's a tad bit too conservative when it comes to big business.

Even Bush extended SCHIP.

Unemployment benefits would of had been extended. If anyone cares to remember, Rethugs threw one of their own under the bus several months ago when he put a hold on the last round of unemployment benefits. The only reason it's a political football now is because of the upcoming midterms.

Democrats would of still controlled both the lower and upper chambers, thus the whole Iraq argument is bogus.

When your argument is weak, the only attack left is to persuade through fear.

[TBF]

69. His whole list is BS -

At this point all I can think of that is positive on Obama's list is Lily Ledbetter and Kagan to the Supreme Court. The rest has been a very disappointing continuation of Bush's policies. It's time to stop coddling the wealthy through tax cuts, end the wars, and see if we can work on our infra-structure a little (maybe some jobs could be created there).

[RBInMaine]

99. Your response is the BS. It is a purist view without a sense of political reality. Take a class.

[inna]

117. OMFG. LOL. How about *you* take a class, you sound like you might benefit from one.

[RBInMaine]

131. "OMG." Explain to me then how ANYONE was going to pass more given Senate rules and the diverse Dem

caucus. You act like we have Obama and 535 Dennis Kuciniches in the legistlative branch so can just pass whatever ultra-progressive bills we want. This is why you must take a political science class and learn how our tri-part government works. Please trust Rachel Maddow and Van Jones when they tout the huge accomplishments and PROGRESS (the root of "progressive") we have seen under this President.

[cheapdate]

126. Even Bush extended SCHIP

He vetoed it twice and then gave it skeleton funding.

"Democrats would of still controlled both the lower and upper chambers, thus the whole Iraq argument is bogus."
Maybe. McCain might have redepolyed from Iraq, but control of congress is essentially irrelevant to what a hypotheical president McCain might have done. No offense, but I think your "Iraq argument is bogus" argument is bogus.

Obama's appointments to the SCOTUS: Wow, you can't even concede we're better of with Sotomayor and Kagan over what a we would have gotten with a hypothetical McCain-Palin team.

[Hawkowl]

20. Think where we'd be if Mao was president!

Or what if Shrub could've had a third term!

You sir, have low standards and must have failed logic 101.

[Safetykitten]

21. What if Mao had a Martian for a VP? Now that's terror!

[Dragonfli]

22. VOTE TO DIE SLOWLY OR ELSE THE REPUBS WILL PUT A BULLET IN YOUR BRAIN

How very inspiring the official meme is, I am so enthusiastically looking forward to voting for neoreaganomics and the victory of a slower lingering death because I get to avoid the die faster option!!!

Yeah!!!!
so inspirational,
did you know that once upon a time our party was not the lesser evil, in fact it was the opposite of evil, can I hold out for real hope, or must I settle for more privatization and fallating of corporations at my expense because I have no choice but decide which of my interests I AM MANDATED to vote against?

Thank you for your concern and your message of hope but in all truth I am among the 90 percent left behind.
I will cheer as loudly as I can which at this point is a whimper to the inevitability that I will (no matter what I do) vote against my self interest and survival, yeah Team!! whimper....

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niceypoo]

49. You cant refute a single syllable

...so you stoop to personally attacking the poster.

Fallacy: Ad Hominem:

Typically, this fallacy involves two steps. First, an attack against the character of person making the claim, her circumstances, or her actions is made (or the character, circumstances, or actions of the person reporting the claim). Second, this attack is taken to be evidence against the claim or argument the person in question is making (or presenting). This type of "argument" has the following form:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B makes an attack on person A.
Therefore A's claim is false.

[Bluenorthwest]

51. That's the stuff.

Gratutious personal attacks. Vicious bullshit flug. Democratic candidate and his supporters slammed and criticized weeks out from election day.

[RBInMaine]

42. Not happy? Then go get those you really want ELECTED. Can't? Then count your blessings.

[Bluenorthwest]

53. But who do you elect? Snowe? Collins? And yet you lecture?

You should drop the ad hominim meanness and consider listening, learning how to elect Democrats to office from those of us who actually do that.
Do you like Snowe or Collins bestest? What if one of them ran for President? What if it snowed in Vegas for a week, and they had to bring chains for the cars in from up north? That would be wild! Of course, even Nevada sends Reid to the Senate.

[Sebastian Doyle]

63. Yeah, no shit

The only state in the New England region to still have TWO Repuke Senators. If the "Democrats" over there are like the OP, there's no doubt that will continue to be the case.

[donco6]

81. It would certainly explain why he's so happy with what we've got. n/t

[RBInMaine]

91. Where does this kind of nutty response come from? How do Snowe and Collins get into it? All I have

done is work like hell to defeat Snowe and Collins in this state. Don't even think about putting something so nutty on me. I have burned enough shoe leather working like hell for Dems over the years to put many of the backseat bitchers entirely to shame. In '08 we had a choice. We made a good one, and if people are going to be such nutty purists as to crap on almost everything Obama and Dems do in the face of a GOP that is virtually evil and considering what we could have had with the other ticked, then I and many good Dems are going to damn well fire back and hard. This is nutty purist noneness that only helps RePUKES. Occasional criticism is one thing. Making a career out of it is something else, and some here do. Are you happy with ANYTHING Obama has done? If so, can you spend a second or two talking about that, or is it just bitch bitch bitch forever? My point was get out there and elect more of who you'd like if you aren't happy. If you can't, count your blessings. And as to Snowe and Collins, I'll remind you that as shitty as they are overall, they at least break ranks sometimes (they are among the precious few who do), and we have a Dem legislature, a Dem governor, and two Dem House members. Take the challenge instead of just tossing the ball back. You are talking to a dedicated, years-long Democratic activist, and I sure as hell don't need tit for tats about working to elect Democrats. Your response is just avoiding the point instead of facing it.

[pam4water]

24. Well you all can carry on in effusively about the chest high in stead of neck shit. The rest of us

are going to keep reaching for the shovel.

[krabigirl]

25. Well, imagine if we had 3 or 4 viable parties to choose from.

[RBInMaine]

40. Ever hear of the Libertarians? Greens? New Alliance? Socialist? Communist? Tea Party? Go join !

[cheapdate]

122. I was just thinking about that.

I'd always thought that seemed like a good direction, but something gave me reason to reconsider. I was reading some articles about the dangerous increase in anti-Islamic sentiment in the UK. Some political parties like the British National Party and the Tories, it seems, have been fanning the flames to boost their political prospects. It occurred to me that that is a danger of a multi party system. As ugly as anti-Islamism can get here in the U.S., the 2-party system, I think, restrains some politicians from being as hateful and inflammatory as they'd like to be. In Europe and the UK, there doesn't seem to be much political restraint. I'm not suggesting a clear causal relationship, but I think it makes sense that extremes can gain more voice in a multi party system.

[Kahuna]

27. Thanks for the reminder and list of accomplishments!

:applause:

[cornermouse]

28. Probably not the best list you could have chosen

since we aren't getting out of Iraq or Afghanistan. There is no meaningful green energy investment. The stimulus went straight to the corporate pockets and stayed there. We still aren't rid of GITMO type facilities. Very few can afford to buy the Volt, especially given the impracticality of its limited range. Do you really want me to continue down the list because I can.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Why the vicious inferences of mental illness?

Personal petty attacks, tell me what that does to help elect Democrats. I think it just tweaks your joy buzzer, it is an indulgence on your part, sliming others with arch comments and insinuations.

[Name removed]

106. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[RBInMaine]

129. Politics is tough stuff. Incessantly hammering Obama out of purist ideology is indeed irrational.

[RBInMaine]

93. Horseshit ! Allow me to refute your nonsense:

1) 80,000 or so troops already out of Iraq. Been in the papers.
2)BIGGEST investments in green energy EVER. Tell the many green co's that have gotten grants they aren't meaningful.
3) Gee, I guess all those teachers, firemen, cops, construction workers, etc. employed all over this nation due to stimulus were just "corporate pockets," along with the pockets of all the working families that got payroll tax cuts.
4) They are trying to work out a GITMO plan. Want it in your backyard? That might expedite it.
5) So don't build the Volt? Don't try, even with the purchase subsidies? Don't make electric cars? (REALLY SILLY THING TO SAY !) Also, after the initial 40 electric miles the gas kicks in, but MUCH more efficiently.

No, you don't need to go on. I feel too sorry for you as it is. Such sad negativity.

[DailyGrind51]

30. ...making things so bad that Progressives would elect the next president in 2012!

As bad as things are for so many, depressed conditions are just not that visible. Unemployment will have to reach 20%, before the majority of people demand true Progressive change.

[Yavin4]

31. Logic and Reasoning Won't Persuade Many of Obama's Critics

They live in a world where there are never compromises nor that there are members of the electorate that vehemently disagree with them. They vote as well.

[QC]

58. Or his giddy, star-struck fans, for that matter. n/t

[Sebastian Doyle]

64. If you are looking for logic and reasoning

you won't find it in the OP. Or any other of his insane ranting threads, for that matter.

[frylock]

72. compromise is good when it's others who do all of the compromising..

be sure and drop me a note the next time the sensible centrists make a compromise on anything.

[Touchdown]

124. ...

[jefferson_dem]

32. A perfectly reasonable, and highly illustrative, exercise.

Shame that those who most need convincing will simply dismiss it and try to rationalize their own ignorance.

[treestar]

38. And notice the zero and the nos

So it would hardly be that they'd need a Repuke Congress. That's why Rs seem to get what they want in power while we don't. Rs don't want the government to do anything - we try to create new programs. They just leave things as they are and passively fail to enforce (the executive branch's job) the law where they don't agree with it.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

43. Hateful line of "reasoning"

Not happy with the asbestos in the house you bought? Let's talk about what it's like living on the street.

Not happy with the quality of food at McDonald's? Let's talk about what starving to death feels like.

And so on.

[Yeahyeah]

44. What if Hitler had won WWII?Holy shit we'd be screwed.Even worse than

Obama's screwing us now.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[niceypoo]

45. Glass half full?

[RBInMaine]

108. God damn right half full ! Our glass would be filled with PISS if McAssole and IdiotLady had won.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

47. The thought of half-term and McMansions running the country - yuk

makes my hair stand on end.

[Bluenorthwest]

48. Or what if Lincoln rose from the grave to take the GOP nom?

What would happen then?!?!?
I tell you, I am far too busy thinking about how different our nation would be if Democrats in States that elect Republicans to the Senate would focus on that problem rather than snipping at others, who actually elect Democrats to every possible office. I mean, your voice in the Senate is Snowe and Collins. How can that happen if you are so insightfull and hard working?
As usual, I stick with advice from winners, not from those whose lack of engagement put obstructionists into Congress. I look at who you have elected, and I wish to be nothing like you, electoraly speaking. I want to elect Democrats, and keep them there. Not sure what you want, save for trashing those who do deliver victory, and whining about fantasy scenarios.
What if Reagan was still alive? What if? What if. What if Snowe and Collins were sent home, and Democrats put in those seats? Now that is a possible reality, I say anything you did in the past, do it differently, and try to win!
You bring us the twin Centrists and you also dare to lecture those who put actual Progressive Democrats in office. We liberals understand that Obama types like Snowe better than liberal Democrats, and to them, having Republicans in office is dandy, much better than 'those people' or "progressives" at which you all sneer until you need votes and money.
I count wins. I remember losses. Obama won. McPalin lost. That is how it is supposed to work, the Democrat wins. Apply that to Maine, and go forward from there.

[Fire1]

55. That's a no brainer and I'm not content with 'everything'

that's been done but ANYTHING POTUS does or does NOT do, is a helluva lot better than the alternative.

[Beacool]

60. This seems to be a meme.

Things could be worse and let's blame everything on Bush.

I don't think that either is going to work in November. The economy is still in very shaky ground, unemployment figures (just released yesterday) are depressing. Real people are suffering, they are worried and even scared about their future. They don't want to hear how things could be worse, they want to hear what the WH and Congress are going to do to remedy the situation.

It may be unfair, but the Democrats are running the entire show (not really since the Republicans can still block legislation), but in the public's perception the Democrats are more to blame because they are the ones in charge.

I don't know if any amount of explaining how much worse we would be if the Republicans were in charge is going to make much of a difference. People seem to be in a "throw the bums out" mood.

:(

Edited to add this thread. One of the most depressing ones I've read in a while.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8892562

[Fire1]

66. They may not want to hear it but the fact remains, we would be

much worse off, had the alternative prevailed. Perhaps I'm giving voters too much credit, but I think they're smart enough to know that our party has been infiltated with blue dogs and THEY should be GONE!! It can never be said that every effort has not been made to implement bipartisanship, but to no avail. So, indeed, we are in charge. Thank God.

[Sebastian Doyle]

65. Sing along with Mick & Keith

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21rek_rolling-stones-salt-of-the-earth_music

SALT OF THE EARTH
M. Jagger/K. Richards)

Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's drink to the lowly of birth
Raise your glass to the good and the evil
Let's drink to the salt of the earth

Say a prayer for the common foot soldier
Spare a thought for his back breaking work
Say a prayer for his wife and his children
Who burn the fires and who still till the earth

And when I search a faceless crowd
A swirling mass of gray and black and white
They don't look real to me
In fact, they look so strange

Raise your glass to the hard working people
Let's drink to the uncounted heads
Let's think of the wavering millions
Who need leaders but get gamblers instead

Spare a thought for the stay-at-home voter
His empty eyes gaze at strange beauty shows
And a parade of the gray suited grafters
A choice of cancer or polio

And when I look in the faceless crowd
A swirling mass of grays and black and white
They don't look real to me
Or don't they look so strange

Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's think of the lowly of birth
Spare a thought for the rag taggy people
Let's drink to the salt of the earth

Let's drink to the hard working people
Let's drink to the salt of the earth
Let's drink to the two thousand million
Let's think of the humble of birth

Lets raise our drink
To the salt of the earth
Lets raise our drink
To the salt of the earth.......

[spiritual_gunfighter]

68. So you are saying we should settle for mediocrity because the alternative was much worse?

This is an old and very tired argument, how many fucking times have I read this post on DU.

[Balbus]

73. I'd settle for mediocrity at this point...

That would be a giant step up from where we're at now.

[flamingdem]

75. What term would you use for where we'd be with a McCain presidency? nt

[Balbus]

78. It's hard to describe something that I've never experienced.

[flamingdem]

79. I think that is a cop-out answer my friend nt

[RBInMaine]

100. And how many times have we heard non-reality purists bash Obama? WE are sick of THAT.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

144. The reality is the country is in the shitter

if you havent noticed. How's that for some reality.

[cheapdate]

121. No, restating an opponents argument

in a way that shifts the direction is what's old and very tired. No one said or suggested anything about settling for mediocrity.

[flamingdem]

74. Rec - I am grateful every day for what we accomplished as a country in 2008 nt

[cheapdate]

127. Hear, hear! n/t

[Touchdown]

77. I'd rather talk about Howard Dean's second term.

Public Option celebrating it's 4th year anniversary.
Gulf of Mexico waters turning more blue.
Thanks to subsidies, the 2nd generation of the volt is nearing testing. Saturn/Oldsmobile Group celebrates it's 3rd anniversary as an independent car maker.
Raytheon opening a wind turbine generator factory in Ohio after their military contracts dry up. Forced to compete in the free market, Raytheon is doing well.
GE opens a solar panel factory in California, their second in 5 years. Scale economics slashes average panel prices in half. As a result of that...
Colorado halted construction of their new coal fired power plant in 2007.
Nissan, Toyota, Target, Best Buy and Wal-Mart have been successfully unionized.
Hundreds of thousands of cops, firefighters, and teachers are given raises, since municipal tax revenues are nearing record levels.
The Mag Lev Line, from Disneyland to Las Vegas will begin operations in September. Penn & Teller will make it disappear.
New Orleans just added 5000 more public housing units last year, effectively doubling the low cost housing since before Katrina.
4 VERY liberal judges, to the left of Ginsberg have been appointed to the Supreme Court. The Citizen's United Case was laughed out of court.
Wall Street banks now number in the low 200s, thanks to actual enforcement of anti-trust laws.
Tesla approaching the sales numbers of Mercury.
Glenn Beck is in rehab, again.
Phil Gramm is in jail.
Dick Cheney got a heart pump... in jail
George Bush finished his coloring book... in jail
Some unknown Governor from a northern state just quit half way through her term. Only local news picked the story up.
Media companies now number in the upper 80s, thanks to anti-trust laws being enforced and Rupert Murdoch leaving the US in disgust.
There will be a memoriam on Tuesday Aug 10th for the 3rd anniversary of Sean Hannity's suicide.
Unemployment is at 4.3%
Medicare, part D was replaced with a better drug plan and Medicare itself was opened to people aged 55 and older.
Cigna and United Healthcare went bankrupt. Employees were forced to find work in telecom, because of a big push to lay high speed internet networks.
Gitmo was sold back to Cuba. Monies will go to paying down the national debt.
The National Debt now stands at 2 Trillion and going further south, thanks to less dependency on foreign oil, and US manufacturing is picking back up.
President Dean finally admitted that gay people have the right to marry. Said that he was wrong and naive. Then he yelled "YEEEEEAAAAAHHHH!!!!"
16 states now have protections for same sex couples to marry. Senator Barack Obama is dismayed that his state of Illinois is one of them.

It's now been 4 years since the last soldier was brought home from Iraq, and 3 years since the last Marine was brought home from Afghanistan. Neither country is causing much trouble on the international stage.

Since you like ludicrous fantasy situations, I thought I'd offer mine.:hi:

[Sebastian Doyle]

82. God damn every last useless coward in the DLC

especially Robert Gibbs, Richard Gephardt, and Tom VilSUCK, for what they did to steal that from us. :evilfrown:

[RBInMaine]

98. No, Dean lost. Pure and simple. VOTERS chose Kerry in Iowa. Enough of the DLC excuse.

[Sebastian Doyle]

111. Blah blah blah. Right wing talking point. Defend the evildoers. Bash the liberals.blah blah blah

rinse repeat etc.

[RBInMaine]

130. I guess you missed the Iowa caucuses. Dean and Gephart fought and split their base.

Kerry on the other hand stayed positive and very grassroots and won. The VOTERS chose. So quit with the whining about the DLC. That had nothing to do with it. People like you use the DLC as a sad excuse every time your candidate doesn't win. Stop the lame excuses. Either you win or you don't. In the end, the voters choose. Excuses are for children.

[joe black]

115. Dean lost because he was going to break up the media.

The very next day the media went after him with the filtered scream and played it over and over.

[Touchdown]

123. That's why I put that in his accomplishments.

Someplace in The List!:P

[joe black]

114. Bravo!

[donco6]

80. I guess I just thought "Hope" meant something more.

Silly me.

[RBInMaine]

104. What more do want that COULD be gotten given the political SYSTEM we have?

[Gormy Cuss]

83. "Not happy with Obama " does not equal preferring that the Repubs had won.

Democratics used to respect diverse opinions within their own ranks. When did it change? I missed the memo.

It's one thing to insist that posts here support a president with a (D) after his name, it's quite another to stifle all dissent with his administration's stance on some issues. Do we really want Democrats to take on the narrow-minded, one-size-fits-all view of conservatives?

Think about THAT.

[LaurenG]

89. + a whole bunch

That was my first thought.

[RBInMaine]

103. Some criticism is one thing, the severe and endless bashing is another. How about attacking the R's?

Isn't that supposed to be the MAIN point of Democratic Underground?

[Gormy Cuss]

116. No, the main point of Democratic Underground is supporting Democrats.

Attacking (R)'s is just a happy byproduct.

Although some posters may go overboard in criticizing the president there are also ardent supporters who IMHO go overboard in trying to shut down ANY criticism of Obama. I can't name names because that would be against the rules but suffice it to say that I rarely post in this forum because of the knee-jerk bashing of anyone who doesn't post glowing comments about the fine job being done by this administration. I could post ten complimentary things about him but if I followed that with one post on a disappointment (such as the way the health insurance reform bill was wrangled) and I could predict that some combination of three or four ardent supporters would reply to accuse me of wishing his downfall.

I've noticed this pattern and my reaction? These days I rarely post anything positive about the president. No need to -- the cheerleaders have that ground covered quite nicely.

[RBInMaine]

134. So if it is about supporting Democrats, why the constant bashing of Obama and Democrats?????????????

[Gormy Cuss]

136. There isn't constant bashing of Obama and the Democrats

so it's hard to answer your question.

[QC]

84. And just imagine if someone reanimated the rotting corpse of Pol Pot

and put laser death rays in its eyes and forced it into the White House by means of a bloody coup resulting in the deaths of tens of millions.

That would really suck.

[RBInMaine]

95. Sounds like a middle schooler channeling his latest video game.

[MissDeeds]

90. This is such a lame argument

We could ask where we'd be if McCain, Palin, Fred Phelps or Tinkerbell was president - But they aren't. Obama is. That is the reality we have to deal with. It's insipid to set the bar so low as to trot out the worst possible scenario and say "Look! We're doing better than we would have with what's his name as POTUS." We need to demand the best from our president, who most of us here helped elect. Stop with the damned 'what if' posts. It reeks of desperation.

Unrec

[RBInMaine]

94. Yours is the lame response and way outside reality. Life is entirely about degrees and

differences. Yours is a purist worldview outside the real world that leads one to bitch incessantly.
Go on with your endless purity and complaining. YOUR view is the lame one. You will obviously complain forever if you don't get everything you want.

[MissDeeds]

97. I would expect as much from you.

Nice try. Isn't working.

:thumbsdown:

[RBInMaine]

101. Tit for tat. Want to impress me? Tell me what you ARE happy with. Anything?

[MissDeeds]

107. Want to impress YOU???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[RBInMaine]

109. C'mon. Answer the question. Go ahead. Name something Obama and Dems have done that you can say you

are happy with. Name a few things. Ever spend any time here doing that? I'd honestly like to know.
I really always thought the main point of the site was attacking RePUKEs and networking with Dem and Dem leaners to defeat Republicans at the polls. Do you agree? Or is it to just bitch about Dems and Obama? Because there is another site called Free Republic that would welcome you if that is your main mission.

[MissDeeds]

110. Over 100 posts on your thread

and not ONE rec. I think that says it all.

:patriot:

[RBInMaine]

133. And Bill O'Reilly has higher viewer ratings than Rachel Maddow. What does that say?

[donco6]

102. Wish I could rec your post. n/t

[MissDeeds]

105. Thank you n/t

[inna]

118. no kidding.

[joe black]

113. If you have to preach it then there's something wrong.

IMO

[RBInMaine]

135. What is wrong is the purists who bash virually anything short of ideological purity.

[Bonobo]

125. Why not talk about what would have happened if Dr. Doom found Thor's hammer? nt

[RBInMaine]

132. Well, um, gee, they weren't running. McCain and Palin were, and I for one am glad they lost. You?

[Bonobo]

147. Oh no! You've unmasked me! I really was hoping McCain and Palin would win!

Your razor sharp wit and intellect has bared my soul to the harsh, unblinking light of day ---and I am. undone.

[hollowdweller]

128. Guarantee we'd be near war with Iran and on the outs with Russia

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

137. On the bright side, we have some kick-ass scandals to talk about (nt)

[Enthusiast]

141. I voted against McSame and Wolf Shooter. nt

[Skittles]

146. this talking point is old and tired

[nightrain]

148. I think the point isn't so much what McCain/Palin would have done as much as it's

that candidate Obama presented himself as a very different person than he has turned out to be so far as President.

"One Must Remember That Obama's Rhetoric And Action Are Disjoint
The Rhetoric is alive with hope and change.
The Action is replete with reconciliation and appeasement.
It is as if the man is at war with himself.
How can one so conflicted be expected to stand firm and act?"--posted last year by a wise DUer

[cherokeeprogressive]

149. Let's not. Let's talk about reality, and things that really DID happen.

McCrasher and Failin' DIDN'T get elected. Barack Obama DID.

He owns the Presidency now.

[mmonk]

150. No need to. They aren't in office. Irrelevant and speculative.

And I do not think either of them will ever get elected to the Presidency.

[mstinamotorcity]

153. I always say when you

are fed up with the progress of this administration they can always change their vote to repug. And the repugs keep telling them exactly what they will do. I am so tired of people believing that we are losing support for our President. Well I support him fully and there may be things that I don't like in particular but I don't have the statistics,reports, intel or other factors to base my disappointment on. Somethings he may not do because he can't make it happen without enough support. When I see people listening to the everyday poll on polls on polls mainstream media stations I think they must have went to bumfuck America junction and did the poll because it never reflects what I think.And just because you have enough people to repeat the same thing over and over and offer no alternatives,give me a break.

[stranger81]

155. Right. Just like you'd be better off getting slapped in the face than shot in the head.

Personally, I'm voting for neither option.