Two men were trying to get to the top of a cliff.

[Aramchek]

Every day, they would approach the cliff.

The First Man would walk around gathering stones which he placed into a pile at the base of the cliff. He worked until he was exhausted. All the while, the Second Man laughed and derided the First Man for thinking that such small stones would get him anywhere.

The Second Man was convinced that the best way to get to the top of the cliff was to fly. He believed that if a man is truly free, he should no longer be a slave to that corporo-fascist Gravity. So, each day he would flap his arms until he was completely spent. On his way home, he would grumble about how the First Man was betraying him by not trying to fly, as well.

For days and days, this went on. Anger grew in the heart of the second man, as he saw the pile of stones growing and yet he had not gotten off the ground once. He became convinced that it was the other man's fault.

One day, the Second Man arrived at the cliff and was surprised to see that the First Man was nowhere to be found. He looked all around and was about to give up when he heard the First Man call out "Up here!"
Sure enough, the First Man was standing on top of the cliff. His pile of small rocks had finally grown large enough for him to ascend.

"Climb on up," said the First Man, "the view is amazing."

"Why would I need your help?" said the Second Man, "I can fly."

[Enrique]

1. now we're getting centrist parables

where did that come from, the DLC Bible?

[Aramchek]

2. let me guess, you can fly, right?

The real Progressives are those who make progress.

[Deep13]

6. I found a way. (edit)

If we stick together and pool our resources we can all get on. All we need is a pilot who is willing and able to fly it. I just hope we don't find out after we take off that the pilot doesn't know what he's doing.

Don't know why you're still screwing about with rocks.

[fadedrose]

8. Progress for whom?

Heard the health insurance companies made a killing last quarter. Oops, didn't mean to say "killing," I meant profit.

[Aramchek]

14. progress for mankind, of course

[Deep13]

16. That's not what's happening. nt

[LWolf]

55. At the rate we're going, I expect to see ads for it on DU any day now.

I'll stick with the parable of the snake.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

3. Icarus, a rabbi and a priest walk into a bar.......

[Deep13]

4. FAIL. The pile of stones is his base.

You can't get to the top of your cliff without your base. While rocks aren't going to feel betrayed or ingnored, people do.

[Aramchek]

7. you are not the base. you are the flapping arms.

[Deep13]

10. I am one of those rocks. At least I was.

Unfortunately, the guy relying on that base keeps getting mad at the stones and is kicking them away.

Anyway, analogies aside, how do you know? My wife and I donated $500 to Obama's campaign despite our misgivings and did much for many other Ds too. How are we NOT part of the base?

[Aramchek]

17. hint: the stones aren't people. they're accomplishments

[Deep13]

21. So they're pebbles.

I know what you meant. Did you think I didn't? I'm pointing out another way of reading your rather pointless insult to the people who put Obama in office.

[Laelth]

5. Ramen. LOL. n/t

-Laelth

[ret5hd]

9. One man told another he would help get both to the top of a cliff...

and if they worked together they would surely get there.

Every day, they would approach the cliff.

Both men would walk around gathering stones which he placed into a pile at the base of the cliff, but when the second man wasn't watching the first man would dismantle and scatter the pile.

The second man noticed and questioned the first man. The first man took deep offense, expressing his outrage vociferously. The second man said "Hey, just quit working against me, that's all I ask"

[Deep13]

12. The first man got to the top, but then refused to pull everyone else up with him.

So they all took their checkbooks and tools and went home.

[Aramchek]

20. he asked the second man to come on up, but the second man had too much pride

[FrenchieCat]

11. Nice parable. Those those who don't like it,

well, they can keep on flapping! :rofl:

[Deep13]

15. Fine, I'm done with all of you.

When we lose, we lose. When we win, we lose. Go lose on someone else's dime.

[Aramchek]

22. We are still winning. You don't see it because you don't want to.

[RaleighNCDUer]

27. I don't see us out of Iraq and Afghanistan. I don't see DADT repealed.

I don't see DOMA repealed. I don't see everyone having access to healthcare. I don't see manufacturing jobs coming back to America. I don't see wages keeping pace with inflation.

There's a LOT of crap I don't see.

[Aramchek]

33. Combat Ops end in Iraq August 31, but I guess that doesn't count

and since you don't believe that, of course you don't believe that Obama plans to do the same thing with Afghanistan.

hmmm, you didn't realize that Obama saved the largest manufacturing employers in the country when he bailed out the auto industry, did you?

You're right, there is a lot you don't see.

[RaleighNCDUer]

36. Bailed out the auto industry at the expense of the unions.

And 50,000 remaining where there should be '0' is not out, so no, it doesn't count.

[Aramchek]

44. and how would they have fared if GM and Chrysler collapsed??

[RaleighNCDUer]

47. Yep, such a quandary. The only way to save the American work force

is through union busting.

When I voted for him I argued that his admiration for Reagan was for being such a game changer, not because he actually admired what he did.

[Ignis]

59. I see that DOMA and DADT don't even merit a response.

Interesting. :freak:

[FrenchieCat]

23. When we win, we win.

Those who don't see the wins are too busy flapping their arms to even want to acknowledge
the truth.

Has Perfection been achieved in any given policy area? no.
have mistakes been made? yes.
are we achieving Progress in many areas? yes.

Small stones make a mountain.

[jobycom]

13. Wow. That could almost be a parable for our current Obama debate.

The guy wanting to fly is like those people who support Obama no matter what he does, and refuse to try to get him to collect stones, instead praising him for how well he flaps his arms, while the people that feel that Obama should be doing something liberal, making progress towards our goals, are like the guy piling rocks, trying to make something happen, annoyed with the guy who doesn't do any work. The parallel falls apart there, though, because even though we want to pile stones, we don't have the equipment to do it, and the one person who does is standing around flapping his arms for people who think he is pretty.

[FrenchieCat]

18. Getting it Twisted?

some folks are really good for that.

What doesn't support your comparisons is that it is Obama and those who support him
who have accomplished that which is showing up as legislation and that is making
a difference to the people of this nation. Sitting pretty is not what I would describe
this President of having done. However, I'm sure that there are some who call him Hitler
too, so you have company in twisting unrepudiable facts.

[jobycom]

29. Wow, that's the quickest and strangest Hitler allusion I've ever seen.

:shrug:

Honestly, I don't think the comparison applies to anyone, which is why I gave it an absurd twist. We aren't arguing about stones and flying, and there's not even a cliff to reach the top of unless people are just deluded about life. We are arguing about whether Obama is doing as much as he can and in a direction he promised. I think he's made some progress, but I have yet to see him do anything that was more than routine, or that any of the other candidates from Gravel on up couldn't have done. Most of the time I feel like he's done less than he could have. It doesn't make me hate him, it just makes me frustrated. I don't think he's a corporate shill or a Bush wannabee, I just think he could have done more, and on some issues I think he's done the wrong thing. I even hold out hopes that he will do more. But I get frustrated with all these "anyone who criticizes Obama for anything just doesn't get it." I'm not flapping my wings, and the other side isn't piling stones, so nonsense like this is frustrating.

I've also gotten into it with people who claim he's done nothing, or he's a corporate shill, or all those extremes. This isn't a president of extremes. He's a mediocre president who could get better, or could get worse, and that's the assumption I argue from.

[LWolf]

56. lol. nt

[brooklynite]

19. Of course, Gravity is only a "THEORY"...

[Aramchek]

24. Just because we can't explain Gravity doesn't mean it ceases to exist

just because we don't like our Political Reality,
doesn't mean we can just ignore it.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. Two men were trying to get to the top of a cliff

because a third man, on an opposite cliff, kept shooting arrows down at them and this was somewhat annoying.

The first man said, "Maybe he will stop shooting at me if I join him on his cliff". The second man said, "He can only shoot at us because we are down here - if we climb our cliff, which is higher than his, we will be safe from him."

So they both started collecting rock and piled them at the bottom of the two respective cliffs. The first man scoffed at the second, saying "There are not enough rocks to climb both cliffs", and the second man said "The stop trying to climb HIS cliff and help build up a path on this cliff."

But the first man redoubled his efforts to clime the opposite cliff, and finally managed to finish his path by stealing stones from the second man's pile. He climbed up, and up, and was rewarded with a arrow in his eye.

The second man reclaimed the stones he needed to finish his pile, climbed to the top of his cliff where he could look down in safety upon the third man who was gloating over the moldering corpse of the first man.

[Aramchek]

26. Aesop says, "Try Again"

[RaleighNCDUer]

30. Oooh, that stung.

:eyes:

[Aramchek]

32. not as much as the initial parable stung you, apparently

I mean look at the reaction it has gotten.
Everybody's writing parables now.

[moksha]

28. What a silly post. Piles of small stones won't get you very far.

Neither of these men are very bright. If I were one of the guys, I would get the other one to help me move large stones, BIG pieces. Little stones will just slide around, like a pile of gravel. You wouldn't make it very high, and certainly not reach a cliff.

What needs to be done is the smarter guy would explain in concise, very certain terms that it is in the other guy's interest to build a foundation of BIG actions. Build a pillar, or steps. A pile of small rubble will never get us there.

[Aramchek]

34. the point is stacking stones will get you further than flapping your arms

Maybe I should have added that the First Man did ask the Second to help build the pile,
but the Second would settle for nothing less than achieving flight.

[Perky]

31. "two mice fell into a bowl of cream..."

[damntexdem]

35. Meanwhile, the liberal walked around the back side of the mountain, climbed the gentle path ...

and built a picnic table at the top.

[Aramchek]

46. both men were liberal. only one was rational.

[YOY]

49. but he wasn't really either. But he kept saying he was! All in effort to change the definition!

And isn't that what it's all about? Feeling good about yourself devil may care even at the expense of the facts!

[Aramchek]

58. looks like I've hit the nail right on the head with my parable

[YOY]

62. Not really...not by a mile...but keep writing. It makes you feel good.

In the meantime feel free try not to convince yourself that you are having some effect on anyone. It may lead to disillusionment.

Live for yourself. It's the best you can do.

[jgraz]

37. Barack Obama was trying to get to the top of a cliff

And he said to The People, "With your help, I will climb this cliff. If we all work together, I will lead the way. Yes we can!"

And The People went forth and gathered ropes and pitons and all manner of climbing equipment. They laid it all at his feet.

And Obama said, "Woe is me, for you have not given me enough tools to climb the cliff."

But The People, being they fucking retarded, insisted that he climb the cliff.

And then Obama did approach the cliff, and he did climb three inches up its thousand-foot face.

"Rejoice, my people!" said Obama, "for I have succeeded in climbing the cliff!"

"But no!" shouted The People, "you have only climbed three inches!"

And yea, Obama did respond, "Yes, but I never promised to climb all the way to the top!"

He then retired, directing an apostle to stay and rebuke them further.

[FrenchieCat]

38. The People went forth and gathered ropes and pitons and all manner of climbing equipment.

They laid it all at his feet.

But as he finally got to the foot of the mountain and reached to pick up the equipment needed,
some of the same people came back and grabbed what they had given,
and left a note instead that read.....

Although I did what you wanted, I decided three minutes afterward
that you only needed those tools prior to getting started.
Now that you are on your way, We suggest using your fingernails instead.
You're now on your own, right as you start on your journey climbing upward.
Good luck, and if you don't succeed, remember we gave you what you asked for,
even if only for a millisecond. Don't ask for shit else.

[jgraz]

39. And in which of your parallel universes did this happen?

Does Obama not still have the largest Democratic majorities in over a generation? Was he not given a huge mandate on election day?

We did our part. I'm tired of being told to fuck off whenever it's time for him to do his.

[FrenchieCat]

40. You did very little....and you know it.

As for being told to fuck off,
I think you were already gone with your shit in hand
by the time anyone said anything.

[jgraz]

41. Really, Frenchie? I don't recall seeing you at any of the Oakland phone banks

Perhaps you had other priorities.

[FrenchieCat]

42. Yeah....I was at the Hayward location, since I don't live in Oakland.

Is that OK? :shrug:

[jgraz]

43. I'm not the one accusing people of lying about their involvement in the campaign.

That would be you.

[bigwillq]

61. .....

:thumbsup:

[YOY]

45. "It's your nature."

n/t

[Uzybone]

48. The second man is a damned fool

the problem is that deep down he knows he is a fool, thus he puffs his chest out more to hide his foolishness.

[boppers]

50. "corporo-fascist Gravity"..

:rofl:

The stone pile man is aligning himself with Gravity! How dare he give them any ground, by conceding it exists!

[Phx_Dem]

51. The man with the pile of small stones is Barack of Obama. The second

man is the progressives bitching that it's not enough. You'll never get anywhere like that! You're doing it all wrong!

Good analogy.

[rug]

52. How many people are under the pile of rocks?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

53. Could you do this in a Davy and Goliath style claymation?

That would be really cool. I can just hear the narrator Dad at the end -

"So you see Davy, incrementalism and small stones will get you to the place you want to go if you're patient."

A puzzled little Davy furrows his boyish clay brows and asks -

"Gee Dad, why didn't the guy just ask to borrow his Canadian neighbor's ladder? They look at us piling up little stones and think we're out of our f!@#king minds".

[LWolf]

54. .

:rofl:

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Canuckistanian]

57. Was this a bedtime story Rahm's mom would tell him?

Right after "Goldilocks and the Three Socialists"?

[LostinVA]

63. omg

:rofl:

[TheKentuckian]

60. A million years of pebble gathering won't get you up that cliff. Somebody is going to have to scale

the beast and throw down a rope or else work together to build a ladder or hew stairs out of hard stone.

The pebble gatherer and the arm flapper have about the same odds of reaching the top as one is doing busy work to give the illusion of a plan of action and the flapper is a faith based con that thinks the invisible hand will lift him up by unseen magic.

Professional liberals know good and well that neither gravel or wishes will carry them to the top and that only by actually dealing with climbing will they ever see the view.

[Name removed]

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