An Open Letter to an Idiot

[NanceGreggs]

TO: Mayor Russell Wiseman
Arlington, Tennessee

Sir:

I realize you are a busy man, so I will get right to the point.

You, sir, are an idiot.

I do not make that assertion without the necessary evidence to prove its accuracy. But having read your recent comments re President Obama’s address to the nation on Tuesday last, the evidence of your idiocy is incontrovertible.

“Ok, so, this is total crap, we sit the kids down to watch 'The Charlie Brown Christmas Special' and our muslim president is there, what a load.....try to convince me that wasn't done on purpose.”

Try to convince you it wasn’t on purpose? Wouldn’t dare to, sir. Anyone who honestly believes that the President, along with his consultants and staff, determined that pre-empting a showing of Charlie Brown’s Christmas Special should be uppermost in their minds is, undeniably, an idiot – and, as such, cannot be convinced of anything, including the fact that the Earth rotates around the Sun.

Perhaps you felt it was more personal an attack, that the President scheduled an announcement of grave import at a time specifically chosen to piss you off. I only raise that as a possibility given that idiots often have delusions of grandeur, along with an unhealthy dose of Palinoia (i.e. a state of advanced paranoia, the symptoms of which include a fearful belief that people of intelligence and common sense are part of a vast conspiracy whose only purpose in life is to find you ridiculous, and broadcast same to the world.)

President Barack Obama is a Christian, sir, not a “muslim” – and, by the way, “Muslim” should be spelled with a capital “M” – in the same way as one spells the names of other adherents of globally recognized faiths, e.g. Catholic, Lutheran, Mormon, etc.

While it has been amply demonstrated for decades now that those of your political persuasion are often incapable of grasping the intricacies of spelling and grammar, there are computer programs available to assist in this onerous task – Spellcheck being widely available and easily accessible.

“Ask the man if he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he will give you a 10 minute disertation about it....when the answer should simply be 'yes'...."

Oh, yes, I forgot! I am talking to someone who used the word “disertation” in an internet communication – apparently unaware that the red underlining of a word means it is misspelled. Again, sir, your idiocy is showing – you might want to look into that.

If you “asked the man” (and just a quick reminder here, that “man” is the President of the United States of America) if he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, he, as a Christian (note the capital C), would undoubtedly respond that he does. And whether he responded in ten seconds, or ten minutes, or ten decades would be of no consequence – because it is a question you have no right to pose, and he has no obligation to respond to. That’s because the Constitution clearly sets out the separation of Church and State (you might want to read it sometime – or are you still waiting for the movie version?)

Undeterred by your already blatant idiocy, sir, you chose to continue:
"...you obama people need to move to a muslim country...oh wait, that's America....pitiful."

Do you think it “pitiful” that we, as a nation, have Muslim citizens?

Let me tell you what “pitiful” is, Your Idiocy. It is “pitiful” that people like yourself are elected to office, and that citizens actually support you. It is “pitiful” that people like Fred Phelps shield themselves from prosecution for hate crimes by hiding their bigotry behind a bastardization of what is in fact a faith that, once upon a time, was based on love, tolerance, and understanding.

It is “pitiful” that we have come to a point as a country where the question What would Jesus do? is now answered by saying that undoubtedly Jesus would promote prejudice and intolerance – along with a disdain for grammar and spelling.

Had I read your comments ten years ago, sir, I would have told you to STFU* with your lies. (And you can ask an aide what STFU means).

But under the present circumstances, knowing that your party is losing adherents at an alarming rate on a daily basis, I encourage you – nay, I urge you – along with your fellow Idiots, to just keep talkin’. Because every time you or one of your ilk open your mouths, another dozen – or hundred, or thousand – registered Republicans say, “I’m outta here,” loathe to be associated with the Idiotocracy that you, sir, represent.

As for your children who missed the Charlie Brown Christmas Special, might I suggest that you make amends by taking them to see Glen Beck’s A Christmas Sweater? I understand he can use the audience. It seems that being an Idiot just isn’t the draw you and your party were banking on.

Yours Most Sincerely,
NanceGreggs

[Powdered Toast Man]

1. K&R

[Suich]

3. Welcome to DU, Powdered Toast Man!

:bounce: :party: :bounce: :party: :bounce:

[Powdered Toast Man]

8. Thank you.

Hope to stick around for a while, but there sure are some heated discussions.

[Suich]

17. When things get ridiculous, come on over to

the Lounge...that's what I do! It's a lot calmer there!

:hi:

[Powdered Toast Man]

25. Oh, ok.

I'll check it out.

[DesertFlower]

2. K&R. nt

[66 dmhlt]

85. Contact Info: Share Your Thoughts w/ "Wiseman"

Mayor Russell Wiseman
Arlington Town Hall
5854 Airline Rd.
Arlington, TN 38002

FAX: [phone]
Phone Direct Line to Russ: [phone]
Phone General: [phone]
Email: [e-mail]

Source: http://tn-arlington.civicplus.com/Directory.aspx?did=8

[RedCloud]

131. "Wiseman" truly is an oxyMORON for him. NT

[Suich]

4. K&R! n/t

[TheCowsCameHome]

5. He should change his last name, too.

He is anything but a wise man.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. All I can say, my dear Nance, is that I'm awfully glad

that I'm not the target of this righteous and pointed rant!

K&R

:patriot:

[lob1]

7. K & R.

[skepticscott]

9. So why is it a legitimate part of rational discourse

for you to call Russell Wiseman an idiot for his little tantrum (which will be forgotten in no time and will harm no one), but completely unacceptable for anyone here to put that or similar labels on Obama for escalating the occupation of Afghanistan, something that will affect this country for decades and cost uncounted billions of dollars and thousands of lives?

[Powdered Toast Man]

10. Are you aiming for a new name or something?

Thread Hijacker already taken? LOL. :pals:

[skepticscott]

14. Just pointing out what seems to be

either hypocrisy or cognitive dissonance by the author, which is entirely relevant in any thread.

[Powdered Toast Man]

23. Really? Where? n/t

[skepticscott]

28. Read her recent posts

or see below. I have no desire to spoon feed you, unless you feel it's necessary.

[Powdered Toast Man]

29. I don't understand the rudeness.

Forget I even bothered responding to you.

[skepticscott]

33. For the start of the rudeness

see your post #10 above. Pot..meet kettle. :eyes:

[Powdered Toast Man]

90. You don't know the difference between kidding and being rude?

When being rude you don't usually put a :pals: smiley. or say LOL. but hey...

[skepticscott]

95. I've had people be rude to me before

punctuated by a LOL, so yes, they do. And what exactly was the humor (other than that at my expense) in accusing me of being a Thread Hijacker?

[Powdered Toast Man]

109. I suppose none.

I sure didn't think you were going to get so upset by it, but you have effectively hijacked this thread, so apparently my joke rang true.

[Harry Monroe]

171. The term "idiot" is entirely appropriate in this situation

I can't think of a more fitting term.

[EFerrari]

15. Nance's rages are encouraged here.

It's like a family tradition. No one really knows why.

[Cha]

21. I know why ..because she hits the Rants out of the

freakin' ball park.

[Gnome Sane]

62. NANCE...DON'T YOU NEVER DIE!!!

Your rightgeous indignation is ablessing, waht with all the recent fluffy-piffle that's been on these boards. :eyes: I read you as the Voice of 'The Non-Bizarro Left'. End of story. Some of these posters just love to get into their own lil' ol' pissing contests...about nada. You, dear Nance, are about substance. Gracias, Danke Shoen, Merci, Arigato....'preesh. :loveya:

[ThatsMyBarack]

133. Welcome to DU, Gnome Sane!

:hi:

[JeffR]

16. Please excerpt the part of the OP that makes a comparison between

Wiseman and the President.

TIA.
:hi:

[PBS Poll-435]

88. I have a greater appreciation for isolated incidents

Last week was just ugly.


Glad to see this OP is doing a little better...


:-)

[NanceGreggs]

19. If you want to label President Obama ...

... as an "Idiot" for putting more troops in Afghanistan, you have every right to do so.

Just do it in your own thread, if you don't mind - and perhaps on another website where such comments are not only welcomed, but encouraged.

I personally don't agree with President Obama's decision - but given the consideration he put into making that decision, I would never call him "an idiot".

You, apparently, would. The internetz are full of sites where such thinking is lauded - this isn't one of them.

[skepticscott]

22. I have no desire to do so

nor did I do so, nor did I accuse you of doing so, so stop frothing at the mouth over what you know perfectly well are straw men.

What you did say, however, is this:

"However, I fail to see name-calling and personal insults as criticism – because it is what it is: name-calling and personal insults."

If you don't feel that this clearly enunciated principle should apply equally to people who attack the president over vital issues and people who criticize Republicans over trivial issues, then simply say so.

[JeffR]

24. wow

um, cogent...

[skepticscott]

27. Far more cogent

I dare say, than your empty response.

[JeffR]

35. Not a real high bar, but if that's how you want to gauge yourself

so be it...

[NanceGreggs]

37. I took the man's own words ...

... as the basis for criticism. And the meaning behind those words as proof of idiocy.

I didn't attack people who criticized the president, or his policies - I attacked those who used their disagreement with his policy on Afghanistan to infer that said position was tantamount to his having based his decision on bloodlust, a desire to be perceived as macho, etc.

As for "frothing at the mouth", the last time I was in such a state, I assure you it had nothing to do with politics.

[skepticscott]

41. Stop with the strawmen already

I never said that you attacked people who criticized the president, or his policies, and you know that perfectly well, so what's the point of making that distinction in your argument? And the people on DU that you laid into with your previous OP have used Obama's words and actions, and the meaning they perceive behind them, as the basis for their criticism. Idiocy is a matter of opinion, plain and simple..it cannot be "proven" in the sense you mean.

And to say that:

"I attacked those who used their disagreement with his policy on Afghanistan to infer that said position was tantamount to his having based his decision on bloodlust, a desire to be perceived as macho, etc." doesn't even come close to encompassing your argument in the previous post, and it grossly misrepresents much of the criticism of Obama's escalation of the Afghan occupation. It's just a dodge and a distraction from what you did say.

The questions are simple, and here they are:

Is the use of name-calling and personal insults ever a legitimate part of rational discourse and criticism? Yes or no?

If yes, what justifies your previous rant on people here applying terms like "idiot" and "warmonger" to Obama? If no, what justifies your use of them in this post?

[NanceGreggs]

46. I honestly believe ...

... that a man who thinks any President of the United States schedules an address to the nation with knocking a Charlie Brown Christmas Special off-the-air in mind is an idiot. And I said so.

I don't deem it to be a "personal insult" to respond to public statements made by any politician in their capacity as an elected-to-office representative.

I called Mayor Wiseman an idiot based on uncontradictable evidence that he is an idiot.

Is "strawmen" the secret woid on tonight's show? And do you win fifty bucks every time you use it - or just the once?

[skepticscott]

72. Unbelievable

You managed to completely avoid addressing the simple questions that I asked (why, I wonder?), and you what you do respond with is irrelevant baloney.

I honestly believe that a man who thinks any President of the United States schedules an address to the nation with knocking a Charlie Brown Christmas Special off-the-air in mind is an idiot. And I said so. I called Mayor Wiseman an idiot based on uncontradictable evidence that he is an idiot.

Who in this discussion ever said he wasn't an idiot? Not me, certainly. But how is that relevant to the argument that you made so pointedly a few days ago, that name-calling and personal insults are not a legitimate part of criticism? Why is your belief that Wiseman is an idiot and your right to call him one any more legitimate than other posters' right to think that Obama is an idiot or a warmonger (and to say so) for escalating an occupation of a country that a simple review of history shows no occupying force has ever been able to control?


I don't deem it to be a "personal insult" to respond to public statements made by any politician in their capacity as an elected-to-office representative.

Puhleeeez! So if calling Wiseman an idiot as many times as you did doesn't qualify as a personal insult, what in the world would? Would you have to walk into his office and call him an idiot to his face for it to be a personal insult? Tell me you're not making such a silly argument, Nance. Even if you are, all of the people you were ripping into a few days ago for personal insults and name-calling directed at Obama were simply exercising their right to "respond to public statements made by any politician in their capacity as an elected-to-office representative".


Is "strawmen" the secret woid on tonight's show? And do you win fifty bucks every time you use it - or just the once?

Yeah, if you keep resorting to the tactic of attacking strawmen, I'll keep calling it what it is.

Face it, Nance...you're pinned on this one. You know it and I know it (though I'm sure your followers don't). But I'll give you one more chance to answer a simple and direct question: Is the use of name-calling and personal insults ever a legitimate part of rational discourse and criticism?

[Fly by night]

76. Don't go away mad. But, pull-eeze, go away.

"K?

[skepticscott]

96. Whether I go away or not

and whether you comprehend it or not, the issue will remain. But don't worry...there will be plenty of other chances for you to K&R Nance without mean ol' me mucking things up.

[Fly by night]

102. Ignore.

If you won't shut up already, we all do have a Plan B here.

See ya', bye.

[vincenzoesq]

117. to skeptiscott

You seem to be in distress. Try some prunes.

[NanceGreggs]

100. I was about to respond ...

... but I see that BlueMTexpat (#60) has already said what I was about to say - and probably far more comprehensively than I would have said it.

Pinned on this one? Hardly.

Now be sure to yell strawman! again ...

[Flying Dream Blues]

130. I admire your ability to deal with such tiresome posters. I'm

exhausted just reading this stuff, but LOVE your letter as always.

[skepticscott]

145. I applaud you, Nance

your ability to dodge answering a simple and direct question that would settle the whole issue is truly astounding. But until you do answer it, yes...you are pinned, and you know it.

[NanceGreggs]

147. I know no such thing ...

... nice try, though.

[skepticscott]

160. And once again

you duck the simple and direct question. Bra-VO! :applause:

[NanceGreggs]

164. I thought you'd take the hint ...

... as subtle as it was meant to be.

But obviously not.

So here goes ...

What I said in my earlier OP (the one you are referencing) is: "Criticism of Obama’s policies, decisions, appointments, procedures, etc., should not be merely tolerated, but encouraged. I have never wavered from that stance. However, I fail to see name-calling and personal insults as criticism – because it is what it is: name-calling and personal insults. I have seen some defend such statements as merely being “constructive criticism” – but unless they believe they can insult Obama into seeing things their way, there is nothing constructive about it."

I stand by that statement.

In that OP, I specifically pointed to the drive-by posters who - even in threads that had nothing to do with Obama OR Afghanistan - posted comments like, "Well, the president being a warmonger, I have to say ..."

Being as such comments were (a) not in keeping with the topic of the OP they were posted on, and (b) included no facts, statements, or even opinions as to why the president was suddenly "a warmonger", I think one can safely categorize them as "name-calling for the sake of name-calling." They obviously were meant to serve no other purpose.

There is something else at play here that should not be overlooked. There are things I expect to see on a political message board that is open to all political persuasions. There are also certain things I don't expect to see on a site dedicated to the support of the Democratic Party, and its ideals.

I believe that if anyone on a site such as DU is going to call a Democratic president a warmonger - a phrase that has traditionally been used on this board to describe the likes of W, Cheney, Rumsfeld, at al - they DAMNED WELL better have some FACTS, or even a REASONED OPINION, for stating so - and NOT simply drop their vitriol into various threads, often completely on another topic, in order to get their point (or non-point) across.

My OP about the behaviour of Mayor Wiseman was never meant as political "criticism" - although said "criticism" would be just and fair. It was a point-and-laugh post at the obvious idiocy of someone who publicly stated his belief that the POTUS had deliberately scheduled an announcement of overwhelming import in order to deprive the American citizenry of a chance to watch A Charlie Brown Christmas - a "muslim" president at that.

I have often skewered people like Wiseman - and Palin, Gingrich, Frist, et al - on the basis of their abject stupidity, rather than as a critique of their "political views" - such as they are.

Ridiculous is just that - ridiculous - and it deserves skewering, by myself and anyone else who wants to join in the frivolity of it all.

I stated my case - with direct quotes by Wiseman himself - and declared him "an idiot" based on the facts already in evidence.

I realize how "in" it is among certain factions here to label people who support Obama as cheerleaders, KoolAid-drinkers, mindless idol worshipers," and blah, blah, blah.

I guess I'm just not one of the IN Crowd - nor do I want to be.

I want to be on the side of the guy - a fellow Democrat - who is doing a stand-up job amongst a sit-down, this isn't what I wanted audience.

Although I don't agree with his decision on Afghanistan, I still stand behind this president a thousand percent - because he's still the smartest mother-f*cker in the room.

And if you and yours want to call that KoolAid drinking, so be it. I honestly couldn't care less.

[A Simple Game]

132. Thank you Skeptiscott.

Some of us do remember the caustic posts by NanceGreggs against anyone who did not worship at the feet of candidate Obama.

Although I did not support any candidate that ran in the last Presidential election(I was for Gore), those posts are the main reason I do not post here very often anymore.

By the way, I did vote for Obama; knowing full well it was very little more than a vote for the least evil.

[Cha]

163. No, you got that wrong

..Nance's OP was against the hatred displayed on this board. Sorry, you didn't get that.

[saltpoint]

169. The mayor's public remarks are the issue at hand.

We, the public, may respond to his public remarks.

The OP believes the mayor is an idiot.

So do I.

[POAS]

73. Strawman is

the new retort when a poster doesn't understand an argument (or refuses to acknowledge their weak position).

Or possibly a symptom of watching "Wizard of Oz" a few too many times.

[Gnome Sane]

79. I wanna be like The Tin Man!! ...Cuz, "Oz never did give nothing

to the Tin man, that he didn't...didn't already have!"...

Have a heart. The 'revolution' we all seek starts within us. It's called compassion

No Doubt. :hug:

[ElboRuum]

121. Brought to you by Carl's Jr...

...pays a hell of a lot better.

[Gnome Sane]

77. Nance, you lil' tramp, you!! lol...I love it!!

:bounce:

[BklnDem75]

82. So...

you're comparing a mayor being called an idiot for acting like an idiot with a president being called an idiot because you don't agree with his policies. Who's frothing at the mouth again?

[skepticscott]

84. No

I'm comparing Nance enthusiastically calling someone an idiot for doing something she thinks is idiotic to her criticizing others for calling Obama an idiot for pursuing a policy that they believe just as strongly is idiotic. They don't jibe...or don't you get that?

[BklnDem75]

86. Welcome to Democratic Underground

One is allowed here and the other isn't. What is your purpose in making this argument?

[skepticscott]

93. Well, if someone thinks that sort of post violates the rules here

they can simply alert on it and be done, right? But it isn't that simple, and you know it, otherwise Nance's previous posts upbraiding certain types of posts directed at Obama would have had no point. There are always gray areas about what's acceptable, both here (where the room operators and moderators have the final say), and in the wider world (where no one and everyone does), and where the boundaries should lie is the issue here, as well as whether Nance is being intellectually consistent about her position in that regard.

[BklnDem75]

128. It seems pretty simple to me

It's a site generally supportive of Democrats. In GD: P, even more so towards our President. While it irks more than a few here, criticism is accepted here, especially constructive criticism. When the line is crossed to lies and name calling not only towards the president, but also attacking people who stands firm in their support (cheerleaders), then those actions will be called out.

So I ask, what's the purpose of your hijacking this thread? Are we suppose to be consistent in our disdain for conservatives? Were we ever?

[polmaven]

101. When did blatent racism become a trivial issue?

"Our muslim president is on. .....(emphasis mine) :shrug:

[Cha]

127. Only in the mind of the poster who

obviously didn't think that one through.

[skepticscott]

146. I'll make you a bet

that within a week, no one will even recall this single instance of racism, but that Obama's policy decision on Afghanistan will affect far more people for far longer, as will decisions on the boundaries of acceptable criticism of that decision. One is trivial and one is substantial.

[polmaven]

157. Well, you have the right to your opinion,

but I will NEVER consider outright, blatant racism to be "trivial". Racism is important to point out and condemn ANYTIME it is seen.

Because it may not stay in the news as long as the war, does not make it trivial. If you think it does, well, there is nothing I can say to change your mind on that, so I won't even try.

[skepticscott]

158. Well, I don't minimize racism in general

as unimportant by any means, I only point out that this particular manifestation of it is unlikely to resonate with anyone who is not already a blatant racist, so that the ultimate effect of his little tantrum will be insignificant.

[POAS]

32. Are you a born again idiot or have you always been one?

[skepticscott]

34. Anything remotely like substance or intelligence

behind that post, or are you just drunk on the Nance Kool-Aid?

[POAS]

38. Not necessary in your case

Post substance and you'll same in return.

Oh wait....nevermind!!!

[skepticscott]

40. Your lack of comprehension

does not make your contentions true. So sorry.

[Binka]

58. What Are You Babbling & Frothing About?

Your posts are bizarre to say the least. Do you have anything coherent to say?

[Powdered Toast Man]

91. Post 10.

I was apparently right.

[skepticscott]

92. So what exactly is there to hijack

on this thread anyway? Wiseman is a dolt and everyone K&Rs Nance for pointing it out in such a caustic way. Fine and dandy, but there is a wider and more important issue that all of the adorers here seems to want to gloss over, namely what the appropriate boundaries should be (if any) for rational and civilized discourse and criticism of public policy and the public figures that enact it.

If that's not a substantial or comprehensible enough issue for you, sorry.

[Powdered Toast Man]

110. It wasn't your thread to take over.

If you really want to make that point, then perhaps you should start an OP, rather than trying to ruin what, without your input, would have been a rather pleasant exchange.

[Divine Discontent]

136. what is a 'born again idiot'?

[BlueMTexpat]

60. Well, the truth is a defense and Wiseman has amply demonstrated that

he IS an idiot.
Unless, however, you are an expert on Afghanistan, Pakistan and India, or on the geopolitical consequences of further destabilization in the area, or of foreign policy, or of listening to and working together with other countries or international institutions ... among many other subjects, you and those like you have no basis for calling our President an "idiot" for taking the time to deliberate about what US policy in the area needs to be, making the first attempt (in my memory, at least) to set out a timeline with benchmarks for withdrawal, and ultimately making a considered decision about going forward, with all the risks inherent in that decision.
You may legitimately disagree with his decision. Frankly, it is not the decision that I personally would have liked to see. But it is one hell of a lot better than anything that I have seen happen in that area to date, ever since we began an ill-advised and not clearly strategized war there principally to divert the US public's attention while *Co ramped up its illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Obama literally has impossible tasks before him. What heartens me is that he actually is trying to improve as many prospects for as many people as he can as soon as he can. For that alone, an "idiot" label is hardly merited and clearly unacceptable, IMO.

[NanceGreggs]

104. Precisely!

Couldn't have said it better - or probably even half as well!

:fistbump:

[Cha]

126. So unacceptable and thank you, BlueMTexpat,

for explaining exactly why.. to the poster.

[skepticscott]

143. As I posted above

no one, certainly not me, is claiming that Wiseman is not an idiot, as much a matter of opinion as that is. That is not, and has never been the issue here, as you and Nance both know well. The issue (and the very simple question she significantly refuses to respond to) is: Are name calling and personal insults, such as Nance has used here (but decried in a previous post) a legitimate part of rational discourse and criticism?

And if you can supply one link where I have called the president an idiot, please post it...now. Otherwise, don't presume to make your argument by dishonestly putting words in my mouth. And you don't know me, so you have no idea who "those like me" are.


Btw, just for the record, here's a quote from someone who does know a thing or two about American foreign policy:

So I'm wondering, what exactly is this strategy, given the fact that we have seen that there is a minimal presence of Al Qaida in Afghanistan, but a significant presence in Pakistan? It just defies common sense that a huge boots on the ground presence in a place where these people are not is the right strategy.

So is completely beyond the pale to call a strategy that "defies common sense", but that involves spending tens of billions of dollars and uncounted lives (both American and Afghani) over an untold number of years, with no hope of achieving its supposed goals, idiocy? Who but an idiot would expend those kinds of resources on tasks that are "literally impossible". You may not choose to use that label, and neither do I, but some may, and if the mods here don't choose to delete that, I wouldn't presume to question that judgement.

[BlueMTexpat]

155. It would have been courteous for you to supply a link at least.

While I admire Russ Feingold in many ways, and yes, he has relevant experience as a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, I do not believe that he had full access to the kinds of information that President Obama asked for and received. Still, although an admirable politician, Feingold is neither a diplomat nor a policy strategist. Nor is he on any front line, whether that line be metaphorical as in working through international institutions or military.
Still, Feingold did not call the President an idiot, even though he clearly does not agree with the policy and believes that it defies common sense.
In this situation, there is room for reasonable people to differ.

********
But Wiseman (misnomer that) certainly achieved idiot status with his remarks and deserves to be called one as a result. After all, he inserted himself into the public dialogue with such patently silly reasoning. There is no room for reasonable people to differ in his particular situation, IMO.

[skepticscott]

159. No Feingold did not call the president an idiot

but he was not in a position to, not is he the type to, even if he thought it was true. But someone not in Feingold's political position, but with similar knowledge, might be justified in doing so. As you say, reasonable people might differ. And there is sometime more rhetorical weight in a few well-chosen words (harsh though they may be) than in three paragraphs of tap-dancing around what you really think, for fear of honking someone off.

[BlueMTexpat]

165. One does not call a reasonable person an idiot, even when one.

differs on the solution.
Judging by his own words, Wiseman is not a reasonable person. He is simply an idiot.
And therein lies the whole difference, which you simply refuse to see.

***********
I'm done with you, whether you respond or not. And you have earned a place on my ignore list. There is only one other, so congratulations!

[skepticscott]

168. Priceless

Someone posts something that you strongly disagree with and your reaction is to put them on ignore? And to boast about it? Have a nice life in your little bubble.

[ima_sinnic]

63. gee, what a constructive hijacking of the thread!

it appears that poster is upset b/c OP did not agree w it in some other "discussion" and now wants to make OP feel all defensive or something by insisting on this ideological purity in rants against idiots.

[skepticscott]

74. Uh, no

I'm pointing out that the OP has, in this post, directly contradicted what she herself pontificated about in a previous post, in which she called into question the appropriateness of what many other posters have been saying about Obama and his policies. And what you call "ideological purity" I call intellectual honesty and consistency, and yes, I do think that's important, especially from a writer whose words are swallowed whole and without criticism by so many people here (including you, apparently).

[Cha]

174. I know.."bad OP" calling the poor misunderstood

mr wiseman "an idiot"..it's so nice that DU has posters sticking up for the bigots of the world

They're just aren't enough bigots to go around.

[TheMadMonk]

66. Name calling for the sake of namecalling? Never a good thing.

However, when someone so comprehensively and proudly parades their ignorance; their bigotry; and their abject stupidity then not only are they fair game, but http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pd-MpXCMcIs

[uberllama42]

129. This is a Democratic board, and you're allowed to say nasty things about Republicans

We've been over this many times in R/T, as you know, in the "why are you atheists so mean?" threads.

There is and always has been a double standard here. Republicans and conservatives, including religious conservatives, are always deemed worthy of vitriol, and no public sentiment here will protect them. But when you talk about a liberal (put aside for a moment the question of whether Obama is a liberal) or a liberal believer, you absolutely may not refer to them as an idiot or call their ideas stupid. If you do, you're a bigot.

[madamesilverspurs]

11. Good grief,

no wonder this Wiseman was disavowed by his brothers Gaspar, Melchior and Balthazar. . .


----

[verges]

43. lol nt

[NanceGreggs]

44. Gold is always considered a nice gift ...

... frankincense and myrrh - at a baby shower? Well, not so much.

But idiocy?

Nevah cool - nevah.

[HughMoran]

12. This guy needs a curby

:mad:

[Cha]

42. He most definetly needs to be called

on his flagrant ignorance and flaming bigotry and I'm glad Nance stepped up to the plate.

[Top Cat]

13. K&R

[Bette Noir]

18. Hey, how come I can only rec once?

This deserves dozens of recs.

[BrklynLiberal]

20. I have just been standing up in front of my PC and applauding you.

WOW! It felt great reading that.....Thank you so much for handing that asshat his head on a platter....which was no easy accomplishment considering how far up his butt it was stuck.

:toast: :headbang: :yourock: :fistbump: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[NYC_SKP]

26. "...you obama people need to move to a muslim country."

:rofl:

Rec'd.

[Cha]

31. The Idiot is insidious of

a larger problem as a whole in the US.

And, it's very important to call them out on their bigotry.

[BattyDem]

30. "you might want to read it sometime – or are you still waiting for the movie version?"

:rofl:

Brilliant ... as usual! :toast:

[Peacetrain]

36. You just cannot make this stuff up.. people are so off the deep end..

that he thinks Charlie Brown is a religious program.. When the hate goes that deep..there is nothing you can do for them

[Garam_Masala]

39. I have conclusive proof that the president is not a muslim

if he was a real muslim, he is required to face Mecca and pray 5 times EVERY day in a
kneeling position. No one has seen him do that! That is proof enough
for me.

[AspenRose]

156. And he drinks beer.

[donheld]

45. K & R

[CTLawGuy]

47. he's not a total idiot

at least he spelled it "muslim" not "muslin".

[NanceGreggs]

48. Yeah, right, okay ...

... there is that. Gotta give credit where credit is due.

:rofl: and :hi:

[CTLawGuy]

71. right back at ya

:hi:

gotta keep stuff in perspective ;)

[Zavulon]

49. This is a lesser point, but

those Charlie Brown cartoons fucking suck. I had to sit through the Thanksgiving one with my girlfriend and her nephew and actually faked having to take a dump so that I could sit in the bathroom and avoid the final third of it. The speech is so stunted, the cartoons aren't funny, I'll never understand the appeal. There isn't a single positive thing I can say about them. Aside from this guy being an idiot for thinking Obama was out to get Charlie Brown, he's an idiot for wanting to watch the stupid fucking cartoon anyway.

[Kajsa]

97. -100

Charlie Brown rocks, as does Snoopy!

To each his/her own---

Did you ever see the "This is America,Charlie Brown"
series that was on about ten years ago?

One of the segments, 'The Transcontinental Railroad'
mentioned the fact that Chinese immigrants built the thing,
yet they were never in ONE photo taken of the building of
it and when the east/west sides of it joined.
i.e- they did all the work and were never represented!

The artwork ( backgrounds) is great,
the music ( Vince Guaraldi) is great,
and no one comes close to Snoopy's air battles with
the Red Baron.

Too each his/her own.

[Zavulon]

148. As you said: "Too each his/her own."

Sorry, I hope you took no offense at what was merely an honest opinion on my part. I've sat through what I believe to be every Charlie Brown cartoon in existence, and hate them all. I truly mean you no offense, but I hate the artwork, music and dialogue.

It's just not my sort of thing. Hope I didn't piss you off, that wasn't my intent.

[Kajsa]

152. No, you didn't.

I was just defending CB and Snoopy.

If it's not your cup of tea- that's that.

We're good here. :)

:hi:

[Zavulon]

166. Glad to hear it, thanks.

Not everyone is as civil, polite and adult as you are when faced with a differing opinion. I appreciate it.

:hi:

[Kajsa]

177. Thank you for the kind words!

I feel the same way regarding your very nice response.

:) :hi:

[NoSheep]

50. Nice. These people really get to me sometimes.

[NanceGreggs]

51. I hear ya.

Well, as they say, it's not the heat, it's the stupidity.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guilded Lilly]

53. I never miss your brilliant posts :)

One of the things I absolutely love about this message board...
INTELLIGENCE permeates.
Especially when I soooo agree (snork and a wink)

Lilly

[BobTheSubgenius]

54. "Palinoia!!!!" *LOLOLOL*

An instant classic.

Have you ever seen a Peanuts special? The way we hear the adults talk? "Wah wahwah wha waaaa." I'm sure Mr. Wiseman (fine irony, btw) was so agog with the anticipation of hearing more of CS's hidden messages encoded therein that his disappointment knew no bounds.

Keep swingin' for the fences, Ms. Greggs!

[unblock]

108. seconded, for palinoia!!!

[Historic NY]

55. K&R.

[grantcart]

56. And I thought you were sending me a Christmas note.

I don't know if I should be disappointed or not.

[Zomby Woof]

57. AFLAC!

[OneGrassRoot]

175. ....

:spray:

Way to break the tension!

:rofl:

[truthrocks]

59. Beautifully articulated ... thank you.

:yourock:

[lapfog_1]

61. Methinks perhaps you should apply for a writing job

with Keith Olbermann.

That's as good as any of his special comments.

Keep it up.

[backwoodsbob]

64. THAT WAS AWESOME

smackdown time

[Raine]

65. My question to him is how did

he remain so ignorant to not know that President Obama was giving an address until he had sat his family down to watch Charlie Brown?? :silly: The date for the address had been given the week before. How does someone who holds public office remain so out of the loop that he doesn't know this when the rest of the country did?

[DesertFlower]

115. good point. nt

[Enthusiast]

67. Thank you, Nance!

And just ignore the idiots. They are only here to sow discord.

[Helga Scow Stern]

68. Rant On, Nance!

Your words need to be heard! Bravo, sister!

[NecklyTyler]

69. Jeff Foxworthy had a routine about the President on TV

Jeff: Today we have 700 channels on TV, and think if we didn't have the remote control, the channel changer wheel would be the size of a tractor tire. 700 channels, we didn't have 700 channels growing up, we had 3 channels when I was a kid, and if the president was on, your night was shot. "The president's on! He's on every channel! We're gonna miss Flipper!"

[NecklyTyler]

70. K&R

[Fly by night]

75. Re: "It is 'pitiful' that people like yourself are elected to office..."

Another great rant, Nance. However, here in Tennessee, where Rethugs keep getting (s)elected despite an 8% disadvantage in party affiliation among voters and a 4-to-1 disadvantage in the 2008 new voter registration contest, we don't believe that there are as many people like the Arlington ass-hat as our red-leaning DREs would have you believe. That is why the far-reich-wing Rethug sub-species here are fighting tooth-and-nail to keep those fraud-friendly machines in use, despite the demands of the citizenry, the legislature, the governor and the courts to replace them with paper ballots, optical scan and mandatory random manual audits.

Until that happens, Tennessee is not a red, blue or purple state -- it is an Orange state (as in the Ukrainian uprising to overthrow a similar election fraud there in 2008.)

Peace out. K&R

[druidity33]

139. Excellent point Fly...

I have trouble understanding why all DREs haven't been dumped in the river (ok, recycled into useful machinery) yet. Where are the concerned citizens regarding vote integrity? Why bother voting if you know the outcome might be fudged?

HAVA needs to be repealed. We need to adopt a new law that requires verifiable results and mandatory recounts. A Federal standard that makes ballots adhere to an easy/understandable format. Or some other idea that's just as good or better. But dump computer voting. Just a terrible idea. Ask any computer person.

Peace out to you too.

K&R.

[Fly by night]

142. I support Congressman Rush Holt's (D-NJ) "Voter Confidence and Increased Accessibility Act" ...

... which would do just that. It requires paper ballots (counted by optical scan) and then verified by manual recounts in randomly selected precincts in every jurisdiction to reduce the likelihood of gaming the opscans.

It is a good bill ..... and the clock is ticking.

I have also proposed doing away with electronic vote-counting entirely in favor of deputizing high school Honor Society members in every jurisdiction to hand-count the votes in all precincts and announce the results there before the ballots go anywhere. I just love the Norman Rockwell image of teenagers, too young to vote themselves, doing the counting. They would likely do it for pizzas and cold drinks and I bet their participation in elections would sky-rocket when they turn 18.

We need to do something. DREs were selected by Fortune magazine as the "worst new technology" of 2003. They were right then, and they're right now.

[druidity33]

150. i've been laughed at

for suggesting nearly the same thing. I thought we should bring back the "Civics" class and have ALL HS Seniors count the ballots and work as poll monitors. Though restricting it to the Honor Society folks might be a good idea.


I'll call my Congresscritter to make sure he's on Holt's supporter list. Does the "Voter Confidence and Accessibility Act" have an HR#?


I'd also love to see genuine Campaign Finance reform, but that's a subject for another thread...

cheers.

[Fly by night]

151. HR 2894

You might get in touch with the Verified Voting Foundation to see if you can hook up with other MA election integrity activists who support honest elections. Thanks and good luck.

[Vinnie From Indy]

78. Another gem from NanceGreggs

Thank you! Your posts never fail to make me laugh out loud. Cheers!

[tiredtoo]

81. One of the best

journals I have read on this site. Thank you and keep it coming.

[archiemo]

80. Please video a reading of this and post to YouTube!!!!

I'd love to see the freeps comments!!!!! Great job as always Nance!!!

[Lorien]

83. Did you send this to the Mayor?

I doubt that he reads DU. These rants are entertaining reads, no doubt, but the choir doesn't need much convincing.

[Harry Monroe]

173. I doubt he'd understand it period!!

Too many big words for him to comprehend.

[Vinca]

87. I hope the moron gets someone to read your piece to him.

[DrZeeLit]

89. I love the smell of burning Bill of Rights parchment in the morning....

When I first read this "news story," I was stunned. You know the feeling... mouth dropping open stunned.
What. An. Ass.

I know it's not a surprise... BUT... whatever DO these ejjits think religious freedom means? I mean... really? What?
In recent years the whole concept, according to them, seems to be "only Christians need apply," and like their concept of gays, other religions should "stay in the closet" -- far far away from the Christians amazingly impressionable children.

The unabashed sense of entitlement never ceases to amaze me.
Maybe we should redirect the term ELITE to them -- those who think they are the One and Only Religion and somehow everyone else is sooo wrong?


I know. I know. Hitting my had against wall. But... sheesh (and you must know I'm muttering much more than the delicate "sheesh" herein)

[saltpoint]

94. Talent talks.

The cultural jingle is that Money Talks, but money is monolithic and dull. It screams more than talks and takes little talent in most cases. Witness Donald Trump.

For people who value language and who believe its command equals free thinking this OP gets it done. I'm also enjoying the notion of an open letter from a talented writer and evolved being to some head-up-the-ass yahoo mayor in Tennessee. If anything, Nance is being charitable.

Recommended.

[HughMoran]

98. 19 unrecs - people who like this sort of behavior?

Nah, people from those sites who are jealous of your writing - amazing how petty people here can be at times.

[Powdered Toast Man]

111. How do you tell how many unrecs a thread has? n/t

[HughMoran]

112. Go here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=greatest_threads&topten=1

& scroll down to "Just Recs"

[RFKHumphreyObama]

99. Well said Nance

You summed it up very accurately as usual:thumbsup:

I think Russell Wiseman is a bloviating bigot who has no place in a civilized society

[Arkana]

103. Nance, have you ever considered writing a book?

Because I would buy the SHIT out of it.

[walldude]

105. K&R... I sent the poor guy a DVD copy of Charlie Brown's

Christmas Special.. of course it's a region 6 disk so he'll have to go to China to watch it ;)

[kestrel91316]

106. Hear, hear! What Nance said!

[Martin Eden]

107. Good letter, but I have one nitpick

The earth revolves around the sun. It rotates on its axis.

[JimWis]

113. K&R. Well done Nance, as usual. Enjoyed your letter.

[AlbertCat]

114. Cathartic for those of us with brains, but useless to Wiseman's ilk.

[vincenzoesq]

116. Nance Gregg gets it right---again!

YEA Nance!:thumbsup:

[ejbr]

118. Brava! n/t

[nxylas]

119. Never come between a Republican and his cartoons

Seriously, though, I wish I'd read this thread before I sent the story it's commenting on to Earl G for inclusion in tomorrow's Idiots. My e-mail said something about "in case you missed this story" - if Nance is devoting an entire journal entry to it, it sounds like I was the last person on the internet to hear it, and poor old Earl probably received it a brazillion times in his inbox already before I sent it. Sorry Earl G.:blush:

[ElboRuum]

120. Great Rant, Nance.

Just one thing though...

<nerd>
The Earth revolves around the Sun, it rotates on its axis.
</nerd>

That is all. I'll shut up now.

[DontTreadOnMe]

122. Great Rant

I am in love with you Nancy! :)

[winyanstaz]

123. excelent..another slam dunk :) ty Nance....

K & R

[rhett o rick]

124. “Against stupidity, the gods themselves fight in vain”.

Friedrich Schiller's quote. I got it via John Le Carre, “Smiley’s People”.

Keep up the good fight Nance.

[SeattleGirl]

125. Nance, you are a real treasure

:pals:

[dothemath]

"Had I read your comments ten years ago, sir, I would have told you to STFU* with your lies."

Thanks, Nance. When the mayor says, "try to convince me blah, blah, blah", I would think he should be convinced that auto-euthanasia is the only way to go.

After all, with a "muslim" president of a "muslim" nation trying so hard to usurp the presentation of one of the mainstays of racist republican evangelical "christians" icons - charlie brown -, not much reason to live, wouldn't you say, mayor?

STFU, you dumb fuck.

[PSzymeczek]

144. Charles Schultz was a Secular Humanist.

The Xians have tried for years to co-opt him.

[Canuckistanian]

134. Nail. Hammer.

Perfectly done.

:thumbsup:

[Myrina]

135. Apparently in all the previous times he's seen it , he missed the 'moral' ...

"Peace on Earth, good will toward men".

I guess he just watched it 'cause it was a cartoon.


:shrug:

[Divine Discontent]

138. spot on! Amen.

[Ken Burch]

178. He probably watched it and rooted for Lucy.

n/t.

[Divine Discontent]

137. because the man who is referenced in the OP is not a DU member,

I absolutely ADORED this post! LOLOL... Some people are missing the fact that you aren't to call fellow members names. Now, right-wing douchebags who make references to Obama messing up The Charlie Brown Christmas Special, well - that's a f999ing idiot!

And, thanks sooooo much to that "Wiseman" for making my fave Christian holiday cartoon forever tainted (well, until I get older and forget everything) with his ridiculous complaint that a president planned in his 'muslim'-religion mind to thwart Mr Shulz's great Christmas cartoon!

[lsewpershad]

140. Superb

As usual Nancy. Thanks

[Mad_Dem_X]

141. Nance, you are the greatest. n/t

[Divine Discontent]

149. Can we call her Nance Ali? She flies like a beautiful butterfly......

but, her rants sting like a bee!


She oughta be syndicated!

[truebrit71]

153. Absolutely BRILLIANT!!!

Fantastic smackdown...

[ItNerd4life]

154. You should have written this in crayon.

I think the person would have better understood it then. Well, actually, probably not. But it would have been funny as hell!

[saltpoint]

161. Kick.

[MARSHALOTIS]

162. [e-mail]

Please send your Charlie Brown condolences to Mayor Wiseman (oh, the irony of the name), to the address listed above. Happy Holidays!

[RepublicanElephant]

167. k&r nt

[Harry Monroe]

170. Nance, you're wasting your time with this letter

You're using words that are too hard for him and his 5th grade education to understand. Also too logical and coherent for his simple mind.

[Harry Monroe]

172. Wiseman, put the following on your Christmas list:

A DVD player and a DVD of "The Charlie Brown Christmas". Problem solved and you'll no longer be bothered by our "muslin prezedent" interrupting your precious air time.

[Cha]

176. More words of idiocy from the Idiot.

"The Memphis Commercial Appeal reports that Russell Wiseman, the mayor of Arlington, Tenn., took to his Facebook page to weigh in, and to give his theory for why Obama timed the speech as he did. From Wiseman's post:

Ok, so, this is total crap, we sit the kids down to watch "The Charlie Brown Christmas Special" and our muslim president is there, what a load.....try to convince me that wasn't done on purpose. Ask the man if he believes that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and he will give you a 10 minute disertation about it....w...hen the answer should simply be "yes"


Wiseman went on to add such gems as, "you obama people need to move to a muslim country...oh wait, that's America....pitiful" and, "you know, our forefathers had it written in the original Constitution that ONLY property owners could vote, if that has stayed in there, things would be different........"

Contacted by the Commercial Appeal, Wiseman told the paper, "You guys are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill."

<more>
http://www.salon.com/politics/war_room/2009/12/04/wiseman/index.html