whenever Obama does what progressives want, his numbers go even lower

[LeftyAndProud60]

It's actually troubling. Maybe this country really is center right.

[RandomThoughts]

1. maybe, or the polling is.

or the posts are.

or the news is.


Although in my view that would not change things, although I decide for myself not other people.

[atreides1]

2. Explain please

[LeftyAndProud60]

12. close gitmo? Majority against it. Put KSM on trial, majority against it. Stands up for muslims,

majority against it. Seeing Obama, I understand why Clinton became more center right in office. This country just doesn't seem to handle beg change well. It really is troubling. How can we even have a future if so many people want things to either stay the same or go back to how things were in the past.

[Jim Sagle]

17. You picked the only area where the predominant progressive view IS unpopular: nationalism.

On just abut anything else, like gay marriage, bank bailouts, outsourcing, medicare for all, and deficit hawkery, Obama takes the right-wing AND unpopular position.

[stevenleser]

29. Well, lets take those one at at time

1. Gay Marriage - I'm extremely disappointed here, BUT, to claim that being pro-gay marriage is necessarily the more popular position? The polls do not agree with you. For the first time in a long time, one poll showed a slight edge in favor of gay marriage. While I hope that continues, one poll out of thousands does not make your point.

2. Bank Bailouts - definitely unpopular, sure. But right wing? Hardly. I dont think any ideology takes credit for these. I happen to think they were necessary, but they were definitely unpopular all around.

3. Outsourcing - You lost me here. I've never heard Obama say he was in favor of outsourcing.

4. Medicare for all - I would have loved it as I would have loved the public option or single payer. But there is a better chance of either of us sprouting wings and flying away then having any of the above pass the senate. I'm not a big fan of colossal wastes of time and political capital.

5. Deficit hawkery - Really? You accuse Obama of Deficit hawkery? Have you looked at how much the deficit has increased in the last two years? This is like accusing the late Andre the Giant of being a pygmy.

So, your critique of the OP and the OP's clarifying comment is pretty much completely wrong.

[Jim Sagle]

38. In reply:

1. I think this one is too close to call if you go by polls. I go with my gut. I'm the perfect weather vane on this - long opposed, then mildly irritated, and then after the simple justice of the issue finally penetrated, impatient to settle this once and for all. I think most Americans are the same way; they're no longer against this, and they really would like to get this settled in the only just manner possible. Too bad Obama's pandering to the right gets in the way.

2. Bank bailouts - I was imprecise here. I should have said "corporatist" instead of "right-wing" on this issue. The main point still holds - that Obama will defend unpopular AND WRONG positions regardless of resulting political damage.

3. Outsourcing - here again I should have used an umbrella phrase like outsourcing/insourcing/free trade. Obama is pressing full speed ahead for more trade agreements that are both unpopular and wrong.

4. Medicare for all - the great majority wanted this. In DC, proponents had to get arrested in order to get noticed. Obama sold it out, along with the weaker public option (if indeed there was any such thing), so we'll never know if it was realistic or not.

5. Deficit hawkery - see Catfood Commission, appointed by Obama and staffed (by him) with Blue Dogs and Republiscumbags like Orrin Hatch. If they succeed in cutting SS benefits and/or raising the retirement age to solve a non-existent deficit problem, America's seniors will suffer for no good reason and consequently so will the Democrats.

So, rephrased, my position is that outside of national security issues, Obama CONSISTENTLY takes the unpopular AND wrong position, to appease either the right wing (1), corporate interests (2-3), or both (4-5).

[boppers]

40. Obama campaigned *against* Medicare for all.

He also campaigned against *any* other form of single payer.

"If you like your healthcare, you can keep it" explicitly removed both from the table.

[Jim Sagle]

47. He took the wrong AND unpopular position in any event.

[boppers]

48. That was my take, as well, until I heard from the unions.

A coal miner needs a different health plan than a medical coder.

[TheKentuckian]

23. Nothing you mentioned is new. Those are fundamental American principles.

The change is the radical Anti-American regressive policies and legitimacy being given to them.

They should be opposed to literally the death, not tolerating and sure as hell not capitulating to elements that oppose the best of the basic concepts and goals of western civilization.

There is no "winning" when these principles are discarded. What is there to possibly fight for if these fundamental ideas are up for debate, much less seen as pawns on a board, to be surrendered to advance.

That's a slippery slope that only those without honor, integrity, and principles will play with.

[niceypoo]

27. Majority against it?

Or the right wing screaming loudly? Everything you list republicans threw hissy fits over.

You are equating, 'GOP throws major tantrum over it,' with, 'majority against it'.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

5. Ultimate facepalm

[CoffeeCat]

6. Is there a discrepancy...

...btwn the poll numbers and what voters believe?

I would think that Progressives would vote in very high numbers. If you poll
the general population, you're getting a cross section of everyone. Only half
of the people in this country vote--so really, is a poll a valid analysis or
prediction of what will happen at the voting booth?

The general polls really don't mean much--unless they are totally skewed one way
or another.

I'd like to see a poll of likely voters--which at this point--would mean more.

Just my 2 cents.

[midnight]

7. Can you show me the numbers you are referring to, or the

progressive act that is being measured by the low numbers.

[DJ13]

8. False premise

He hasnt done anything the real liberals want, he only does half measures to try and appease the middle and the right.

It would be just as valid to claim his numbers go down every time he triangulates and goes towards the middle instead of being the bold leader people thought they were voting for.

[snagglepuss]

15. Exactly nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

9. Please proivde examples, with polling data showing this trend

Here's a good format:

Obama did ________________, which was exactly what progressives wanted, and his numbers went down, as you see here at this link ___________.

Please cite at least three examples. I'm particularly interested to see what it was that Obama gave us progressives that was exactly what we wanted because, so far, I got nothing but an increased bill on the horizon for health insurance I can't afford to use, even more so once I start paying the insurers my $1200 a year for non-existent health care.

:popcorn:

[Jim Sagle]

10. Example, please.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[vaberella]

13. A lot of people are relating the mosque statements as one.

Some have said the push for healthcare reform as another or climate change as another.

[Exilednight]

25. Claim? That's exactly like when Fux news says "some would say" n/t

[vaberella]

39. And these are people who are making claims on the knowledge they have.

As the OP's post is entirely opinion and not based on any "tested" facts.

[vaberella]

11. It always seemed that way to me...the country being center-right that is. n/t

[LeftyAndProud60]

16. I've heard it said my whole adult life, but I never paid much attention till now. nt

[Jakes Progress]

14. Yeah, sure. That's why he got elected as a chane president.

So you are saying that voted for him thought he would be like george, that the election was a mandate for republicans?

Peddle it on a forum for stupid people.

[Cleita]

18. And of course you posted all your sources for

your statement and links to them or is it that you can't because you pulled that statement out of your ass.

[xchrom]

19. Unrec for being Obvious. Nt

[LittleBlue]

20. Of course they are. America is full of bigots

who use more animal instinct than rational thought. Too many soccer mommies, NRA wingnuts, and mega churches.

[frylock]

21. when did obama do what progressives want?

i musta blinked.

[rury]

26. President Obama does what he feels is the correct and most

beneficial thing for the country, regardless of ideology.
And I am a liberal.

[joe black]

28. And I'm the pope.

[stevenleser]

31. You are definitely not the Pope, but the person to whom you are responding might be what they say

they are. You could have asked them without engaging in snarky hyperbole.

[vaberella]

36. You definitely must have. n/t

[CJCRANE]

22. The MSM is center right. n/t

[Doctor_J]

33. Big Media is FAR right

anti-American, anti-free speech, pro-corporation, pro-gun, pro-monopoly.

[Blue Owl]

24. Unrec

It's the lying, duplicitous $hitstream Media that makes his numbers lower.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

30. You got the media baby

if the media was shut down we would all breathe a sigh of relief.

[Chris P. Bacon]

32. I guess George W. Bush went around doing a bunch of progressive things then

Bush's approval was horrible at the end. I don't remember his final years being progressive.

[Bluenorthwest]

34. When has he ever done what Progressives want?

And where are these 'numbers' you claim? What 'numbers'?

[Barack2theFuture]

35. maybe someday he'll do something that progressives want,

and then we can test your hypothesis

[applegrove]

37. The GOP has moved to the right and it forced Dems to be centrist.

[cornermouse]

45. Your logic indicates you view democrats as followers, not leaders?

Isn't there something wrong with that picture?

Democrats need to return to their principles and start holding their ground. Obama got elected because people wanted a change in policies and a change in the direction that Bush and the GOP was taking the country. Somewhere, somehow, that fact was forgotten.

[old mark]

41. Rec. People here do not (want to) understand how small a minority

the progressives are in the US today...There are probably more people who BELIEVE that Saran Palin's rise to political heights is the work of God than there are real progressives. There are maybe a dozen in congress. There seem to be maybe 3 in the Administration, but they are not identifying themselves.
ALL OF THE PROGRESSIVES IN THE USA ARE HERE or on maybe 3 similar but smaller left forums...we are it!

Obama doesn't even want to hear about us - he wants a little credit and good felling, and he is going to run again in 2012 and he will probably win and do very little with a few MORE GOPers in congress..Obama will make speeches and veto some of the more idiotic bills that will be passed by the "second American revolution"...

I was somewhat of an optimist till a few days ago, but I see that so many people LOVE these rightwing trash candidates that some of them are bound to win.

I am vey sad to think of this country's future and I have little hope for the continuation of liberalism beyond the next decade or so.

mark

[Go2Peace]

43. This issue does not reflect political views. It just shows that people are too influenced by TV

[old mark]

46. Certainly people let Fox "think" for them, and the current crop of cartoons

we have in congress reflect the media influence...Wait 10 years - these will be the good old days.


mark

[depakid]

49. You and others perpetuating this myth really do need to read up on the facts

The Progressive Majority: Why a Conservative America is a Myth.

Conventional wisdom says that the American public is fundamentally conservative - hostile to government, in favor of unregulated markets, at peace with inequality, wanting a foreign policy based on the projection of military power, and traditional in its social values.

But as this report demonstrates, that picture is fundamentally false. Media perceptions and past Republican electoral successes notwithstanding, Americans are progressive across a wide range of controversial issues, and they're growing more progressive all the time.

This report gathers together years of public opinion data from unimpeachably nonpartisan sources to show that on issue after issue, the majority of Americans hold progressive positions. And this is true not only of specific policy proposals, but of the fundamental perspectives and approaches that Americans bring to bear on issues.

Nor is the progressive majority merely a product of the current political moment. On a broad array of issues, particularly social issues, American opinion has grown more and more progressive over the past few decades. In contrast, it is difficult to find an issue on which the public has grown steadily more conservative over the last 10, 20, or 30 years.

The issues covered in this report include the following ... The role of government ... The economy ... Social issues ... Security ... The environment ... Energy ... Health care...

In short, a look across the scope of American public opinion reveals a public that holds progressive positions and supports progressive solutions on economic issues, on social issues, on security issues - indeed, on nearly all the key issues confronting the country. For years, the conventional wisdom has maintained just the opposite, but the facts are impossible to ignore.

Full report: http://cloudfront.mediamatters.org/static/pdf/progressive_majority.pdf

And there's more:

Pew: Trends in Political Values and Core Attitudes: 1987-2007. Political Landscape More Favorable To Democrats

http://people-press.org/reports/pdf/312.pdf

Summary: http://people-press.org/report/?reportid=312

[besdayz]

42. hedger

its not so much the issue as it is his cowardly way of operating...

he does things that repukes hate but he tries to apologize to them every step of teh way.....while antagonizing progressives at every chance he can so as to prove himself not a bleeding liberal.....
so even when he passes historic stuff, half the people hate him and the other half feel disappointed in his inability to articulate their side effectively...

at some point you gotta stop hedging. this isn't a mutual fund--there are moral values attached to positions..

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

44. It's "center-right" because people are self-identifying themselves as that, and because "liberal"

has become a bad word. But when you actually break down public policies--provision by provision--you find that people are more liberal than purported to me.

I don't believe it. I do believe, however, that Republicans and The Right are winning the war when it comes to framing issues and developing the narrative that government is inherently bad.

[old mark]

50. When did he do anything like that? On vacation? I must have missed it...nt