CNN: dems need 60 votes to end Bush tax cuts

[Enrique]

we have large majorities in both houses of Congress, and we have a Democratic president, and we need 60 votes to let the tax cuts of the worst president in history expire?

We are in two wars, with a huge deficit, and we need 60 votes to restore taxes to Clinton levels?

Democrats in total control of the government need 60 votes to let tax cuts expire that even David Stockman have said are disastrous economic policy?

http://money.cnn.com/2010/08/27/news/economy/bush_tax_cuts/

(...)

However, the Senate Democrats don't have the 60 votes needed to beat back a filibuster and pass Obama's tax plan, a Senate Democratic aide confirmed. Sen. Ben Nelson, D-Neb., Sen., Kent Conrad, D-N.D. and Sen. Joe Lieberman, a Connecticut Independent who caucuses with Democrats, have all recently said that raising taxes -- even for the rich -- doesn't make sense while the economy is faltering.

They all say they'd favor some kind of temporary extension of the Bush tax cuts -- for a year or possibly 18 months -- including for those in the top income bracket.

Friday topped off a week of economic bad news, including plunging home sales and a downward revision in the Gross Domestic Product numbers.

These reports are prompting more Democrats to call for all sorts of tax cuts, including those that benefit the wealthy.

(...)

[DJ13]

1. They expire automatically at the end of 2010

I think it only requires a vote if it was to be extended.

(Or to keep the middle/lower class cuts in place.)

[IndianaGreen]

14. Exactly, if Congress does nothing, the tax cuts will expire on their own

and they should ALL expire on their own!

[BeyondGeography]

24. And thank goodness for that

Because they would be there forever otherwise.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

37. The problem is that these asshats won't vote for the middle/lower class cut

because it doesn't include the upper class tax cut too.

[golfguru]

2. Don't need 60 votes

The Bush taxcuts expire automatically at end of 2010.
No new legislation needed to kill the taxcuts.

[Enrique]

5. it should be the other way around

Lieberman, et al, should be scrounging the 60 votes to overcome OUR filibuster, and the supermajorities to overcome Obama's veto.

Instead we're living in CNN and the DLC's bizarroworld.

[AndyA]

3. Um...hello...idiots...tax cuts don't work.

In case you haven't noticed, they've been in place for almost ten years now.

Where are the (American) jobs they created?

Did they prevent the recession?

Have they created jobs this year?

Tax cuts, in some cases, work well. But they are more effective with lower income people, as they will spend every extra penny they get. That money goes into the economy and makes it grow. The wealthy? Well, look at the current mess to see the results of tax cuts for the wealthy... :eyes:

Anyone at this point who believes that continuing tax cuts for millionaires is going to help is a liar. And they will add another 300 trillion plus to the deficit. Explain how that is going to help things, would you Lieberman, Nelson, and Conrad...?

[griffi94]

4. i thought the tax cuts just expired

i see that it's going to ok to let the tax on people making less than 200k kick back in unless the wealthy get theirs too.
i hope the taxcuts sunset, like they're supposed to, then start with a new bill for people making under 200k

[Pirate Smile]

6. All the tax cuts expire automatically. We need 60 votes to extend/pass the tax cuts for people

making less then $250,000.

Are Kent, Joe & Ben willing to filibuster extending the tax cuts for people making less then $250,000 if the people who make more then that don't get their tax cuts extended? That's the real question because that is what they would have to do.

[Inuca]

13. Correct. It's going

to be interesting.

[LiberalFighter]

20. Let's be clear about this. The tax cuts will be for income below $250k

That means even those making over $250k will still benefit because they have income below $250k.

So besides tying anyone against this legislation in their campaign they can include that they want to take away the basic tax cuts away from those over $250k.

[Pirate Smile]

26. True and that is a good point. I read that most people making over $250k will keep about half of

their tax cuts because the income below $250k will still retain their tax cuts. I'm sure that is because most of the people are making $300k or $400k etc. It is a smaller percentage that are millionaires & billionaires but then, they can certainly continue to live comfortably without their tax cuts.

[whoneedstickets]

7. They need to pass legislation to keep the cuts for sub $250k income earners...

...which the GOP doesn't want because (a) it would let Obama claim to be a tax cutter, (b) it would give a cut to 98% of the public (c) it would reduce the deficit projections and (d) it would be another Obama legislative victory.

NOTE: the original cuts were done via reconciliation. I can see no reason why this tax bill couldn't be passed by a similar method.

[Pirate Smile]

10. I believe you have to include in an earlier budget bill language saying what issues can be

passed via Reconciliation. We never passed a Budget framework this year so nothing was ever signaled as being able to be passed via Reconciliation.

Health Care & Student Loan Reform were the two issues that could be passed via Reconciliation per the budget bill passed in 2009. That was why we could use Reconciliation on those two topics.

I haven't seen much chatter re Reconciliation on this topic. I'm not exactly clear on it. I'm sure we are going to be getting a ton of info on it in September.

[OhioBlue]

40. those are my thoughts EXACTLY!!

The original bill was done via reconciliation... why not the new tax bill???

[johnaries]

8. NO, to pass Obama's plan. If Congress does nothing, then ALL

the Bush tax cuts expire. Obama wants new legislation that extends the cuts for the middle-class but not the upper-class. This is what the 60 votes are required for.

[pa28]

19. Right.

We need to frame the issue correctly. If the Republicans want to play it this way that means they are filibustering for an increase in taxes on the middle class.

[boppers]

9. We need 60 votes to pass a new plan.

The cuts expire by themselves, but Obama didn't want new taxes on those making less than 250K.... if the * cuts expire, they will affect middle/upper class folks making less than 250K.

[karynnj]

22. Exactly - and Democrats need to fight back the idea that the default

if we can't get 60 votes is to pass exactly what the republicans want. In addition, the original Bush tax cuts were passed under reconciliation - the very method that the Republicans do not want us to use.

[ellenfl]

11. pass new middle class tax cuts the same way bush got his tax cuts . . .

reconciliation!

ellen fl

[tritsofme]

17. Reconciliation is not available to Congressional Democrats this year.

By failing to pass a budget resolution that included reconciliation instructions, they will be unable to consider any legislation under the budget reconciliation process this year. Stupidity.

[awoke_in_2003]

21. "Stupidity"

Was it stupidity or just part of the plan?

[OhioBlue]

41. huh???

I'm behind on this. Congress failed to pass a budget resolution that included reconciliation instructions and cannot consider any legislation under the the budget reconciliation process? Can you please elaborate or provide a link? This is ridiculous and I had no idea.

[tritsofme]

42. They didn't pass a budget resolution for this fiscal year.

And they already used their reconciliation vehicle from FY2010 for the health/student loan overall in the spring.

If Congress wants to consider legislation under the budget reconciliation process, there must be instructions to the relevant committees in the budget resolution, and there was no budget resolution passed this year to include those instructions.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/07/are_democrats_setting_themselv_1.html">Ezra Klein outlines it here.

[givemebackmycountry]

12. Bullshit - we don't need 60 votes - we just do what they did....

Remember, the Monkeys tax cuts were done using reconciliation.
It didn't get put up for a vote.
They just slammed it through.
And fuck you if you don't like it.
That was their attitude at the time.

[Aramchek]

15. this is totally bullshit spin. but it doesn't surprise me to see this OP post it.

[Enrique]

16. do you understand my criticism of the CNN article?

do you agree with my criticism of it?

[stray cat]

18. If they don't vote on it they expire - how hard is that?

they just can't select who it expires on. If we all want government services let it expire on all of us.

[backscatter712]

23. Nonsense - all Congress has to do is let the tax cuts expire.

Now if the Dems were to do what Obama was planning - extend some of the Bush tax cuts for the lower and middle classes, while letting the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy expire, that would require 60 votes.

But then again, the GOP plan to just extend all the Bush tax cuts would also require 60 votes.

All Obama has to do is threaten to veto anything that extends the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy - the GOP will scream and yell, try to block Dem plans, but eventually, the clock will run out.

[Milo_Bloom]

25. If Obama and the other democrats cave on this one... its really over.

Jam the bill down their throats, and if they don't go with it... CAMPAIGN ON THEM BLOCKING TAX CUTS!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

27. Reepublicans need 40 votes to deny tax cut to middle class, more like it

[w4rma]

28. the DLC and Republicans need the 60 votes, this time. Democrats can pass a bill without the

tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy and run against every Republican (let the DLCers who side with them lose their elections) who votes to raise taxes on the middle class by filibustering the bill.

[David__77]

29. So progressive Dems will have to filibuster I suppose...

We will see. Maybe just extend them all for a year.

[zbdent]

30. The tax cuts are still in place ...

but the billionaires who benefit from them aren't spending any money ... well, except for advertising about how horrible life would be for America if the tax cuts weren't left in place ...

[ShadowLiberal]

31. Just another sign of how much the media is going downhill on fact checking

The tax cuts expire on their own. All democrats have to do is play a game of chicken with the GOP and hold votes on their tax plan, let the GOP keep voting it down till it expires, then blame the GOP for raising taxes on everything in order to protect tax cuts for the rich.

[bornskeptic]

32. Actually the linked article is right..

President Obama has been campaigning to extend the tax cuts for the middle class, while allowing the tax breaks for individuals who earn more than $200,000 a year and families who earn more than $250,000 to lapse

However, the Senate Democrats don't have the 60 votes needed to beat back a filibuster and pass Obama's tax plan, a Senate Democratic aide confirmed.

It does not say that 60 votes are required to let the cuts expire, but only that 60 votes are needed to extend the middle class tax cuts while the high income cuts expire. This is correct.

[rufus dog]

33. It is 250k of Adjusted Gross Income!

Everyone keeps repeating the 250k as an INCOME number not AGI.

So if I, as a small business owner, make 325k, fund retirement at 40k and have 35k of other deductions there would be a tax increase of ZERO! (Because my AGI would be 250k)

I would bet you would be hard pressed to find anyone with 275k of income that doesn't have at least 25k of write offs.

Please don't fall for the Republican/Media wording, make people explain.

For example - Hey Rufus Dog, how come you get to put 40k in retirement?

Hey Rufus Dog, as a small business owner do you have the ability to manage your income for tax purposes? This is another thing people need to remember. If a small business owner has a great year and makes 400k he/she doesn't have to take the full amount. He/she can leave it in the business and defer it. So if next year the SBO only makes 100k of income he/she can pull out the 100k carryover and for each of the two years pay at the 250k rate, not the higher rate.

[taupe]

38. can't keep money in the business

As a small business owner I have point to make. I cannot keep money in my business without paying taxes on it. The tax rules just don't work that way. Almost every small business is an S Corp. or an LLC because if they were a C Corp., the owners would get taxed twice. In an S Corp. or an LLC, the owners must pay taxes on what ever the profits are. This is true whether or not the profits are paid to the owners.

[NC_Nurse]

34. Let them expire. Obama can blame the Repubs if they aren't extended for the middle class.

Works for me. I'd rather pay a bit more so that the rich can pay a LOT more.

Then the deficit will be lowered and the Repubs can STFU about it.

[quaker bill]

35. Not true

The 60 votes is required to extend any of them. The plan favored by the President would extend those cuts for folks making less than $250K. The republicans refuse to vote for an extension unless the wealthy are included. It is time to make them break out the cots and actually fillibuster to fight the dems preserve their tax hike on the middle class because this time the robber-barons are not getting a cut. Game on!

[MaeScott]

36. Look at where this news comes from. Don't trust it. nt

[high density]

39. For a media that has been pimping the deficit non-stop...

Now they want to pimp extending the Bushco tax cuts? Ridiculous.

[TheKentuckian]

43. Let them all expire and if you insist on blowing a bunch of money on ineffective stimulus

then make the pukes oppose tax cuts for the lower 98%