Sorry, but both Kucinich and Ed Schultz don't get it. Obama did NOT take orders from McChrystal

[jenmito]

like both of them said on The Ed Show. As a matter of fact, he REJECTED McChrystal's first plan since there was NO plan to exit. We now know we will give Karzai 18 months to get his stuff together because we will START withdrawing our troops, handing power off to the Afghanis. There won't be further requests for troops. Obama told that to McChrystal and the others. OBAMA is the CIC and nobody else. And they all know it.

Edited to clarify.

[vaberella]

1. I'm realizing the media guys get the news late. n/t

[jenmito]

5. Nah. They're just misrepresenting what is happening. n/t

[Cha]

2. Just as I thought..

kucinich would be out spreading the subterfuge like the opportunist he is.

[jenmito]

8. Yeah...

he's either doing it purposely or he's not very bright. Same with Ed-but I am pretty sure in Ed's case, he's just not that bright.

[firedupdem]

3. "take orders"

anything to act as if the man in charge, isn't the man in charge. Funny, he gets blamed for everything, but when he makes a decision, he's "taking orders".

I don't pay much attention to either of them.

[IndianaGreen]

4. Truman would have fired McChrystal and Petraeus for their insubordination

Civilian authority over the military is paramount in a free society, particularly in our republican form of government.

You still repeating Obama's lie about 2011 withdrawal (of a squad, perhaps), a lie laid bare by Hillary, Gates, McChrystal at the hearings.

I think the story about "rejecting" 4 options is a bullshit story to make us buy off on this war.

[jgraz]

11. +100000

[tblue]

13. I thought he should've fired McC, too. Bush fired a number of generals.

I think, like it was for Clinton, it's hard for a Democratic President who hasn't served in the military to pull rank on their war commanders. It's not fair, but politically it's more complicated, I guess. McChrystal was way out of line, but I'm sure Obama has his reasons for keeping him on.

[still_one]

16. I think that point is the most disturbing. Not that he is pursuing this "surge", but

that these generals, especially mcchrystal was given free reign to dicate policy publically, over his commander in chief without an repurcussions

You are right, Truman wouldn't, and didn't let those things stand

However, I believe all decisions, whether this one or others, are Obama's decision, not any general. Obama is the one responsible, right or wrong

[spiritual_gunfighter]

24. +infinity n/t

[Voltaire]

30. Thank you sister

President ME would have fired McChrystal's ass immediately and Petraeus would have been gone before my inauguration. The generals don't give the orders, not in private and certainly not in the press. Look up Dugout Doug McArthur and see what happened to HIS warmongering ass.

[SIMPLYB1980]

6. K&R

[ClarkUSA]

7. Ed and Dennis aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. They're too busy whoring for ratings

That's my take on it, anyway.

[IndianaGreen]

9. The war wing of the Democratic Party doesn't care about our GIs dying in a useless war

or the civilian casualties.

[ClarkUSA]

15. Spare me your bullshit Counterpunch rhetoric and acknowledge the facts in the OP.

Ed and Dennis are fucking wrong. Period.

[still_one]

18. Then why last Sunday did both Hillary and Gates contradict the 18 months as a "hard" date? /nt

[jenmito]

22. It's the date they will START the process-not complete it. n/t

[still_one]

26. That is not exactly what they said in those interviews if I understood it correctly

Rachael Madow went over that on her program a few days ago, and it was definitely different then what was first expressed

I am not saying what will or will not be, we will only know when it happens, but there was definitely a contradictory double message

[avaistheone1]

32. You are correct. The administration backtracked on the 2011 exit the very next day

after announcing it.

[jenmito]

14. I think that's true of Ed. And I think Dennis is just trying to get attention

by opposing Obama, regardless of facts.

[ClarkUSA]

17. Dennis knows he's only there on Ed to get the ratings up by uttering his latest bullshit.

I say they're both attention whores and both of them know that attention = ratings.

[Jane Austin]

10. It's like they didn't even listen

to the speech.

[still_one]

12. Actually, that 18 months as a hard date has been taken back by people in the Obama administration

The Secretary of State, and Gates both said it wasn't necessarily a hard date. Petraus(sic) also said the same thing

Also, just keep things fair, Schultz did say that Obama should be at least given a chance, and that he believed Obama, right or wrong, gave the decision considerable thought

As far as Kucinich, he has always been consistent in his philosophy and views regarding war

Obama made the decision, and we will know in due course if we will start to get out in 18 months or not

I think the big question is, since AQ and bin laden are no longer in Afghanistan, what "strategy" are we doing?

[tblue]

19. The strategy apparently has to do with Pakistan,

though there's been no declaration of war there, despite the drone attacks, and military special forces/Blackwater engagement there. So who knows if we'll ever be told what the real goal and strategy are? If the Admin is already backing off on the 18 month deadline, what will it be 18 months from now? I just hope things go as Obama has planned.

[Pirate Smile]

25. NYT had an article on Pakistan today: "Pakistan Told to Ratchet Up Taliban Fight "

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/world/asia/08policy.html?_r=2&hp

WASHINGTON — The Obama administration is turning up the pressure on Pakistan to fight the Taliban inside its borders, warning that if it does not act more aggressively the United States will use considerably more force on the Pakistani side of the border to shut down Taliban attacks on American forces in Afghanistan, American and Pakistani officials said.

The blunt message was delivered in a tense encounter in Pakistan last month, before President Obama announced his new war strategy, when Gen. James L. Jones, Mr. Obama’s national security adviser, and John O. Brennan, the White House counterterrorism chief, met with the heads of Pakistan’s military and its intelligence service.

United States officials said the message did not amount to an ultimatum, but rather it was intended to prod a reluctant Pakistani military to go after Taliban insurgents in Pakistan who are directing attacks in Afghanistan.

For their part the Pakistanis interpreted the message as a fairly bald warning that unless Pakistan moved quickly to act against two Taliban groups they have so far refused to attack, the United States was prepared to take unilateral action to expand Predator drone attacks beyond the tribal areas and, if needed, to resume raids by Special Operations forces into the country against Al Qaeda and Taliban leaders.


Other news which is going under the radar - India is pulling some troops off their border with Pakistan which should encourage Pakistan to switch more of their troops off the India border and onto the Swat offensive & Afghan border. The US has been trying to get this chain of events to happen for years. Obama actually has gotten India to move.


Any of the keyboard warriors or complainers who think they actually know more about what the hell is really going on over there then the President are delusional.

[still_one]

27. and that is what creates distress among progressives. It also happened with HCR, we had mixed

messages with regard to the public option

This may be their intentional strategy to create this confusion, I am not sure, but I don't like it

[jenmito]

20. No, it hasn't. Just yesterday, Gibbs made clear that July 2011 the transition will

begin-we'll start transferring power to the Afghans and withdrawing troops. The PACE will be based on the conditions on the ground as Obama said.

[still_one]

28. The Rachael Madow show sure contradicted that two days ago by Hillary, Gates, and

others who are part of the Obama administration

[Clio the Leo]

21. I see Ed was riding his pet shark again. NT

[jenmito]

23. Yup. n/t

[freddie mertz]

29. McChrystal was insubordinate, making public statements on policy

...and IMHO, Obama should have dismissed him for it.

By failing to do so, and then basically endorsing the general's policy, he left himself open to this kind of criticism.

[ShortnFiery]

31. Ed and Dennis are spot on. Those warmongering Generals and their privatized MIC are getting

every damn thing they wanted. Unlike our corporate democrats, they high-balled the troop request.

God Bless American Patriots, Ed Schultz and Dennis Kucinich, who are unafraid to speak truth to power. :patriot:

[MidwestRick]

33. I turned off Ed...

the day I first watched his horrible show. His discussion forum is even worse.