Setting the record straight. I am a veteran, I am straight, but I have served

[rasputin1952]

with the most honorable men and women this country has produced. Many of these men and women were gay and lesbian, they came when their country called, they have had to hide their sexuality, and as a veteran I have some things I'd like to say about this situation. I know I have written about this before, and I ask that you bear with me again while I get some things off my chest.

The bottom line, as has always been in the military, will the soldier next to you stand by you when the chips are down; can they shoot and hit their target, can they maneuver and outflank the enemy, can they accomplish the mission? In every one of the cases, the answer is yes. Our soldiers, sailors, marines airmen and Coast Guardsmen have proven them selves time and again....some have paid the ultimate price and rest in fields beneath crosses, stars of David and crescents. There is noting that shows they were gay, and when they paid that ultimate price, they left loves behind, who as they grow old, will always remember those loves as forever young.

What right do those who never served have to degrade those that serve today? Where was Gingrich, Boehner, that monster Cheney and that coward bush? Brave men and women took the brunt of battle, many of them gay and lesbian while these cowards hid behind a myriad of "legal" ways but...bottom line, they were, and are cowards.

The men and women I served with often paid with life and limb, the furthest thing from my mind was if they were gay, I just wanted them to be able to shoot and hit a target, the object was for as many as possible to come home. For those that didn't, I wonder if their lover still feels the loneliness, the tears that come at night, the bed that should be warm, the single dinner made, when it should have been made for two.

For those that have never served, I might remind you of the second woman in the Army, a Medic that was awarded the Silver Star because of her bravery in taking care of a fellow soldiers. I was a Medical Platoon Sergeant, and I wept openly when I read of this woman, she did what she was trained to do, and was rewarded for it. Where were the cowards? sitting at home, complaining about gays an lesbians in the military. I don't know if the soldier awarded the SS was a lesbian or not, it makes no difference...she did her job, and like so many thousands of others, she deserves our respect.

I want DADT to become history, I want men and women, regardless of their sexuality to be given the respect they have earned. They were sent into harms way by cowards, and they have all, straight, gay,lesbian served with honor, and no one has the the right to take that from them.

Thanks for reading this, just an old vet voicing his opinion and knowing more will die before this is over.

:patriot:

[damonm]

1. Kicked, recommended, and may I say, one vet to another...

:yourock:
:hug:

[Bobbieo]

2. Too bad you are not in Congress!!!

[cliffordu]

3. Beautifully said. From one Vet to another.

:patriot:

[donquijoterocket]

33. second that and K&R

[boppers]

4. I suggest you run for office.

We need more people like you in power.

[mozan]

DADT

I think only TRUE VETS should be able to serve in congress or as president. It would help sort out the problems we have with wars and war funding.
The DADT thing is very wrong, I served in the USAF in the late 70's and we never looked at gender or sex as a bar to serving. It was about getting the job done and being ready to be the best if it was war.

[Booster]

5. Excellent post. You stated it very well. These cowards aren't

even good enough to polish the fine soldiers' boots.

[DevonRex]

6. I'm a Vet and I agree with you completely.

I served with many gay and lesbian soldiers and it was an honor to do so.

[Skittles]

8. ditto

I am really tired of all this nonsense - in the military they speak of truth and honor - how does that coincide with forcing people to lie about who they are?

[activa8tr]

20. Thanks to you and the person posting above your post, we all appreciate

your open-mindedness and advocacy for fellow service members.

Thank you for your service, too!

[nosmokes]

7. Thanks for the excellent post and thanks much for your service.

That goes for all who have served and those pulling duty now. come home safe and soon.

[Aristus]

9. Another straight veteran here in favor of repeal of DADT.

Now. Today. To hell with the homophobic armchair warriors. To hell with all of them.

Repeal!

[activa8tr]

21. Thank you, too! For your service and opinion!

[David Zephyr]

10. Thank you for your service. And thank you for your OP.

:)

[EFerrari]

11. Beautifully done, rasputin1952.

:kick:

[opihimoimoi]

12. Bravo....3X... :o) The GOP is riddled w Peter Bullys...inept and arrogant they misguide us for

nefarious reasons

They are not patriots, they are cowardly Facists

[The Wizard]

13. Well said

It was the father of conservatism, Barry Goldwater, an Air Force general, who said it didn't matter if they were straight, just that they could shoot straight.
Look at all the closeted Republicans who want to keep gays suppressed. It just makes you wonder.

[bindelh]

14. Welcome Home rasputin1952

Well said my friend..

God bless you.

[old mark]

15. Another old vet who agrees with you. rec.....nt

[activa8tr]

23. Thank you for your service and opinion on this issue!

[old mark]

52. Sure - I got paid for my service, and I don't know when to shut up...but it's a geat point...

There were gays before the military was even thought of...


mark

[pinboy3niner]

16. Well said, Ras! To put it another way...

[terrya]

17. Thank you for this post and thank you for your service to our country.

I've never served in the military. It's just as well, probably, since it has been made quite clear that gay men and lesbians really aren't wanted in the United States Armed Forces. At least to serve openly.

I can't speak from a military perspective. But there are gay men and women who want to serve our country, and who are willing to give the ultimate sacrifice in that service. The sad part of seeing the coffins of the dead coming back from Iraq, from Afghanistan, is realizing that some of those brave men and women in those coffins were gay. But we'll never, will we? Because of a stupid, bigoted law/policy that cannot be justified, cannot be defended and should not, even for one second more, be tolerated.

Thank you for your post, again, ras.

[rasputin1952]

25. It is a pleasure to see you back on DU terry...

:pals:

[Bluenorthwest]

18. You are the best.

However, Cheney is gone, Gingrich is not in Congress, and some of the vogts that halted us were cast by Democrats such as Jim Webb. It is time to keep that up front. Cheney did not cast a vote. Newt did not cast a vote. Webb, that hack writer, did cast a vote, and his vote was against us. Lincoln as well, and what's his name. So called Democrats.

[activa8tr]

19. You can be proud of your service as well as you open mindedness and strong

advocacy for your fellow service-members, all of them.

Thank you for this post!

[JHB]

22. K&R

Any comments I could add are meager by comparison. Thanks on behalf of friends of mine, and from me for their (and, ultimately, all of our) sakes.

[ProSense]

24. Excellent post. What Republicans don't seem to get

is that whether or not gays in the military serve openly or under DADT, they are still gay. They are in the military, and have always been. They are gay when they're heroes. They're gay when they get wounded. They're gay the moment before they become casualties.

Republicans simply want people to hide who they are, which is a ridiculous premise upon which to base a law.

[dgibby]

26. And this Vet agrees,

and salutes you!

:patriot: :yourock: :fistbump:

[Balderdash]

27. That made me cry at work...

Thank you. I'm a lesbian who never served but I thank you and all
who have served for your love of country and your willingness to
sacrifice all for the rest of us. I don't understand why our
leaders are sacrificing good, patriotic Americans to the bigots
of this country when most of Americans are ready to move on.

[Stargazer09]

28. I'm a veteran, too

And I think the whole DADT thing stinks.

[Glorfindel]

29. Thank you - sincerely

n/t

[ampad]

30. Exactly

Which is why the comments from that clown lady gaga really got under my skin. You would be surprised just how many in the military don't give a good damn about the sexual orientation of those around them. That is so old school and old fashion. This coming from a veteran that served her country with pride.

[Rozlee]

64. Got that right!

As a vet who served mostly in field hospitals both in peace and three wars, I can tell you that soldiers know who the gays in their unit are, and don't seem to care too much about it in the shower tent. It's only sexually repressed rethugs that ruminate about it obsessively. "What will the Army be like if a soldier has a gay roommate?" they wail. Well, that soldier will probably ask his gay roommate to queer eye his shirt for his hot date. Gays have been in the U.S. military now since there's been a U.S. military. So far, our soldiers haven't voted in pastel BDUs like those homophobes seem to think they will.

[boppers]

68. Have you seen the current BDU patterns?

They're FABULOUS. Here's one of my personal heroes, wearing a custom kilt in MARPAT:

http://tinyurl.com/24w9636

edit: fix link to something DU doesn't screw up, add commentary

[bigwillq]

31. K and R (nt)

[bertman]

32. Excellent post, rasputin1952. This old vet gives it his highest REC. nt

[myrna minx]

34. Thank you . K&R

:hug:

[avaistheone1]

35. k&r

[herbm]

36. We weren't gay or straight, we were brothers and sisters in uniform, depending and relying on each

other. All the other stuff is just stuff. And we are almost always sent by those who do not serve, sometimes by those like W - he was in uniform but he did not serve, he was building a resume and staying out of jail.

[rasputin1952]

42. You make an excellent point...

I never noticed if we were white, black, hispanic, AmerIndian or anything else...we were green; all of the talk of flag, apple pie, the girl next door...we fought for each other, that is the way war is...we fight for each other.

[herbm]

46. Best thing that ever happened for race relations was the 'Nam. A lot of bubbas got wise there.

[Permanut]

37. K & R

From another old vet. Nice post, Rasputin.

[Scurrilous]

38. K & R

:thumbsup:

[DirkGently]

39. Un-contradictable. And apparently still needs repeating, Thank you.

[democrank]

40. Thank you for your service, rasputin1952

and thank you for your thoughtful, reasoned post.

[pasto76]

41. My platoon was a genuine team, and I hated half of them...

dumbass rednecks, male female, black white. Some of my best friends, some of the most miserable people to be around. When it was time to work, we went to work.

My squad leader was a die hard republican from central PA, and I would still follow him through the gates of hell.

My battalion also had gay soldiers - never one problem generated because of it.

Just like being white, black, male, female, rich, poor, asian, educated, dumb - WHATEVER. none of it matters.

I was under the gun once for getting into a fight with a squad member. My platoon sergeant didnt like me, so tried to reduce my rank. After my squad leader smoked my ass, he presented the argument that a) soldiers fight b) losing my temper there didnt discount the already exemplary 9 months of duty in Iraq, and I even made my OP shift on time that afternoon. in other words it hadnt affected how I soldier.

Neither does being gay, any more than being a redneck from MN.

This whole thing makes me mad. I despise armchair generals speaking in circles demeaning the service of my soldiers.

SGT PASTO

[DeSwiss]

43. K&R!!! n/t

[Paper Roses]

44. Excellent and thank you for posting this. n/t

[Honeycombe8]

45. Question about showering....

One of the things many people wonder, and the argument has been used...is that soldiers have to shower naked with each other, and sleep in close quarters. So unlike there being a religious or race difference, there is a sexual distinction. The thinking was that straight men would feel uncomfortable, and this would affect morale.

Did you have to shower nude with gay men? Did it affect you in any way, if you did? Did it seem to affect anyone else?

Just wondering. I expect not, because of the substance of your post. But this has been brought up many times over the decades, and I've never heard it answered in the media by anyone.

(P.S. This is a serious question, and not meant in any way disrespectful. I really have heard this argument used over the years, and I really have never heard it addressed. Maybe it was, and I missed it. But I wanted to add this P.S., in case anyone misinterpreted my question.)

[bindelh]

47. Soldiers have to shower naked with each other

Honey;

It is sad that you have not had the experience of serving in the military of our country.

Yes we showered and slept near under above around each other.

We slept in the dirt mud blood bugs and snakes.

Getting some shut-eye was something we coveted and if one had to do it leaning against your buddy or a tree the feeling of another live body was a comfort not a discomfort.

During basic training one was so exhausted in our day that thoughts of sexual orientation were far from our minds.

In the field one was not 'worried' about the sexual orientation of the guy next to you in the firefight. Showers were a seldom and rare occurrence. We just stood in the rain when it came or went without.

Hope this helps.

[rasputin1952]

51. That is a a talking point that has no validity...

when the Engineers get a shower stall ready, if you are one of the first 50, you may get some hot water...after that, it's like showering in Antarctica. You soap up, rinse down, get a new uniform and move on.

It's a rerun pile of crap by people who never served...:hi:

[Honeycombe8]

72. I see. That makes sense. You're not hanging around, taking your time...

soaping up and relaxing, etc., etc. You get in there, get your hot water for your shower, and get out. That makes sense.

[liberation]

55. Did you even play any sport in High School?

Did it turn into a big gay orgy when you were showering after a long practice when people could just not resist your adonis like figure and muscle definition?

[Honeycombe8]

71. Yes, I played sports. But being female....

we of course didn't have official sports funded, like you guys did. So it was all very unofficial, and we used the regular girl stalls for showers. The girls' showers had curtains. The girls rarely saw each other in our underwear, much less naked.

I didn't play sports in college (since were no longer forced to, like in high school, unless you were a sports major of some sort----I was an English major).

[HillWilliam]

69. I served in the regular army, then later went active in the reserve

Extended twice because the services were short in my MOS. I'm also gay.

Lemme tell you about showering. In the morning, the only thoughts we have are the same as anyone else: just getting through the next shift to the best of our abilities. Me personally? if anyone had approached me in the shower, they'd better have a short-stack of pancakes, a gob of bacon, and a bigass mug of hot coffee. At oh-dark-thirty after turnaround shifts, nobody but NObody is interested in anything else. In seven years, nobody ever did. In my last unit, the make-up was about 30% gay. We were ALL professionals who took our jobs seriously. We loved our work and did it to the best of our abilities.

In wartime, that gayguy in the shower ain't interested in your d*ck. He's a LOT more worried about not getting HIS blown up that day, trust.

So if anyone throw that question up to you, you've got the answer right from the horse's mouth so-to-speak.

[Honeycombe8]

73. LOL. Thanks. I get it.

Seriously, I heard this mentioned at a Congressional hearing a few years ago...the "close quarters" language that Senators and military brass bring up. We all know what they mean. But I never heard anyone respond to statements like that.

Not having been in the military, I just didn't know the answer.

But yes, I now have the answer. And it makes sense, now that I think about it. Yeah, if someone approached me in my shower in the morning, they sure as hell better have some eggs and cinnamon rolls handy! Thanks. And thanks for taking my question seriously.

[HillWilliam]

74. .

:hug:

[IcyPeas]

48. well said. wish you could get this published somewhere ....

so it can be seen by more eyes.

:patriot:

[me b zola]

49. K&R

[Raster]

50. Most excellent post! Thank you!

I want DADT to become history, I want men and women, regardless of their sexuality to be given the respect they have earned. They were sent into harms way by cowards, and they have all, straight, gay,lesbian served with honor, and no one has the the right to take that from them.

[FrenchieCat]

53. Thank you!

:patriot:

[madmax]

54. K&R Wonderfully written and heart felt.

To the good men and women who serve our country. :patriot:

Bravo

[CUTTIN HEADS]

56. Airborne, Bro!! Well said.

[jaysunb]

57. This "Old" Vet agrees 100%

A very high percentage of my outfit (7th Surgical MASH) was gay and everybody knew and mostly cared less. Yes, there were a few assholes, just like every where else in society, but they knew to keep that shit to themselves especially when the CO and most of the brass and staff were pretty much obvious.

on edit: fuck John McCain !

[lunatica]

58. Thanks for sharing this and standing with our gay brothers and sisters

Long ago I pledged I would stand at the side of my gay friends come what may. I will rejoice with them and I will cry with them. Today I'm more disappointed than I can express. Angry and disappointed that narrow minded bigoted mean spirited people can stand in the way of human rights. I loath John McCain and have for many years. His life is devoted to crucifying this country on the altar of his wrath for not being voted into the Presidency so he could bomb, bomb, bomb Iran.

I won't shed a tear for him when he dies, just like I never shed a tear for Reagan who did more harm to the gay community than anyone can ever fully grasp.

[kiranon]

59. As a woman vet from the Viet Nam Era, I agree. Thank you.

[HillbillyBob]

60. Thank You.

nt

[Divine Discontent]

61. THANK YOU, God bless...

It's funny (sick) to hear the cowards of the GOP who ran from service disparage brave troops, who happen to be Gay.

Great post...

[HillWilliam]

76. It irritates the hell out of this gay vet

to hear those multiple-deferral/never-served bigots demean my service and the service of my GLBT brothers and sisters. I'll thank the repuglibigots to remember there wouldn't BE a United States for them to live in or a stars-and-stripes for them to wave or a constitution for them to keep shredding if it weren't for a gay man, one Baron von Steuben, who wrote the definitive "Regulations for the Order and Discipline of the Troops of the United States" and whipped our "rag, tag, and bobtail" troops into shape.

As usual, everything was a mess until some gay guy comes along, brings order to the chaos and a little magic to the show, makes a success of what was once surely doomed, then gets no credit or thanks after the fact.

[Divine Discontent]

77. I love ya man! That was a great post. Love the final sentence! hysterically true!

peace...

[krispos42]

62. Happy to K&R

I'd rather have gay soldiers that shoot strait than straight soldiers that can't.


Channelling the Sacred Band of Thebes, I bet a battalion of gay soldiers would NEVER leave a wounded or dead soldier on the battlefield when the enemy was virulently homophobic, and would go through hell to rescue surrounded unit or a captive.

[saltpoint]

63. What can ya say about a DU post that is not only

intelligent and persuasive, but extraordinarily well-written to boot?

How about 'Thank you."

:thumbsup:

[rasputin1952]

65. I wish I could have replied to each and every one of you...

I thank you all for your support for those brothers and sisters in arms that are gay or lesbian. Those of us who have been wounded and those that have paid the supreme sacrifice upon the altar of war...all bled red, and we did what we could to save as many as we could so long ago. May the day come soon, when our brothers and sisters no longer have to hide who they are. I know of of one gay soldier in 1970 that threw himself upon a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers. In most cases, this would have been worthy of the Medal of Honor, he was awarded the Distinguished Service Cross posthumously. This does not take away his act of bravery, and self sacrifice...at his ceremony, we all wept, he was a good man...and he was a cook, not infantry, not artillery, not a scout...a cook, who sacrificed his life for others.

So, if you will allow me to thank each and every one of you for posting, in this thread, I am humbled by the replies...and let's keep fighting the good fight so that each and every service member will be treated with the respect they have earned.

[ZombieHorde]

66. Recommended. nt

[ChiciB1]

67. My Husband & I Grew Up As Army Brats When It Was A "Secret" But

there was NO DADT! My father told me when I was very young that men were serving that were Gay! He was a wonderful father and taught me to RESPECT people of all colors and and all types. He also introduced me to politics at a very young age too! As a Democrat!

Sometimes I think that by enacting DADT, it simply put a bright light on a situation that had been tolerated for many, many years!

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

70. You continue to serve your country....

as a voice of reason and compassion.

Thank you.

[bullwinkle428]

75. I'm pissed that I missed the rec window, but I can still kick!!

:patriot:

[jenmito]

78. Kick and wish it wasn't too late to recommend. Thank you for this! I wish you could testify in

front of Congress.

[akbacchus_BC]

79. Thank you kind Sir for an excellently written post and thank you too

for your service to your country and all humanity. Those 'slapdicks' (poached from another DUer without his/her permission) you mentioned will always be cowards.

I still cannot wrap my mind around the fact that not one rethuglican voted to repeal DADT! Who are those people? Do they dislike their fellow human beings that much? They have got to be some sick people!

Could not recommend but am kicking this Post.