No Reward for Competence

[kentuck]

Barack Obama was called a "great" communicator. In fact, that has been his weakness. Perhaps he thought others would pat him on the back for a job well done?

If he had been a Republican, he would have been the Second Coming of Reagan. His name would have already been etched in stone as one of the greatest presidents ever. But, he is not a Republican. He is a Democrat.

Nobody can prove a negative but it could have been much, much worse if the President had not done what he did when he did it. Everybody knew we were in deep, deep trouble. We could have gone over the edge. It is no small accomplishment we are where we are today.

But many of us, myself included, thought we needed radical change after the horrendous and unforgettable Bush years. We wanted our Constitution back. We wanted the criminals to be held accountable. We wanted the wars over immediately. We wanted the wealthy to pay their fair share of taxes. We wanted to believe in our government once again. We were disappointed.

But, if we were salesmen like the Republicans, we would be crowing about the healthcare bill passed that gave so many millions of people access to healthcare. We would be exalting the President for getting the troops out of Iraq, just like he said he would do. We would be demonizing the other Party for standing on the sidelines as we struggle to get out of the ditch that they put us in.
And we would be cheering the President's policies for saving the 401K's of millions of Americans.

But Barack Obama is not a great salesman. He has not effectively communicated his successes. And neither has his Party. The job that has been done has not been sold to the American people. Yes, we expected great and radical change. We did not get that. But we did get enough change to save us from total disaster. But, at this time, neither the President nor the Democratic Congress is getting their just reward.

[CTLawGuy]

1. "He has not effectively communicated his successes. And neither has his Party."

and neither have you or the so-called "progressive media" (at least the ones who think anything short of implementing a socialist state could be counted as a success).

Can you imagine how the dynamic would have changed if Fox News spent the entire Bush presidency attacking him from the right?

[kentuck]

2. And obviously..

neither have you.

[CTLawGuy]

48. I'm not the one backstabbing him

and then complaining about how he hasn't fought the backstabbing effectively.

[karynnj]

14. Exactly - and it is not just Fox News that gave mostly praise to Bush

until Katrina and which has always been grudging in its coverage of Obama successes. In many cases, I think the favorable Bush coverage might have been out of fear of being cut out by the administration otherwise, but I wonder if part of it was that the generation that was in college (and high school) under Reagan might be coming to positions of power in the media. Someone who was 20 then, is 50 now. As most people firm up their political opinions in those time periods, you might suspect that there were more conservatives created then than there were in the 1940s or 1960s. In addition, you have some 1960s liberals who became yuppies and moved rught.

In addition, it is pretty clear that the leadership of the NYT and WP both had at least a core of people who wanted to give the neo-cons a chance. Both had at least one op-ed contrasting the Neo-cons as idealistic and concerned with the rights of people vs John Kerry, who they portrayed in less positive terms - though he was likely one of the most idealistic men to run for President as far as his foreign policy ideas were concerned. Now, I KNOW that both their editorial boards endorsed Kerry, but that didn't change at least 2 years of positive coverage of Bush - and helping push the rush to war. They had a vested interest - and still do - in protecting Bush's image, not so Obama's.

[RoyGBiv]

3. What?

Do you just enjoy listening to yourself ramble on aimlessly?

[kentuck]

6. Why do you click on such threads?

Do you enjoy reading them?

[RoyGBiv]

7. Do I enjoy reading your threads?

No, I don't, because I don't enjoy reading intellectually bankrupt commentary.

But I do read them occasionally anyway.

That out of the way, do you have an actual respond to my question? What is the point of your comments? Do you believe you have offered some valuable insight to ... well, anything? If so, what?

[kentuck]

12. You are free to have your opinion.

I was trying to say something that I thought needed to be said. Sorry you were so disappointed.

[zipplewrath]

4. This is getting a tad tiresome

The "oh woe is he" schtick is getting a tad tiresome. "He's done so much good and isn't getting credit for it". Look, the bar is high. He set it high himself. WE, set it high for him. Blame who ya want but the bar isn't "trying real hard" or "doing his best". That's the measure for high school. When ya go pro, the reality is that "trying your best" don't mean diddly. Results are what matters. Ask any college football coach that goes 8-4 and doesn't get the contract renewed. Ya knew what the bar was when ya took the job. Ya don't do it, you get canned.

8 million people lost their jobs. He wasn't his fault they lost them. But it is his job to "get them back". And he shouldn't be surprised that folks aren't thrilled about waiting. Especially as they watch wall street and the banks get bailed out.

Fair? I dunno. But he asked for the job, and he knew the job description when he took it. So just do it.

[HughMoran]

25. Not negative enough fo you?

You think a President can "make" jobs?

:rofl:



If he emptied out Fort Knox and the Fed in NY and handed gold bars out to each family in the US, the same people would move on to their next complaint on the never ending list.

...it never ends...

[zipplewrath]

27. Regardless of what I think

It has very little to do with what I think. It has alot to do with what he "sold". He sold "green jobs". He sold a stimulus package that was suppose to have unemployment below 8% by now. What did they want to call this? "Recovery Summer" or something like that? He campaigned on renegotiating NAFTA. What he's finding out is that not only do people expect that, but they expect it much faster. Reasonable? That's not the question. It's what they expect and what they want and he ran for that job. If he didn't want the job.....

[HughMoran]

29. Blah blah blah

Anybody who thinks a politician can meet all their objectives without taking longer than expected and achieving every goal exactly as stated is living in a dream world or is being deliberately obtuse in order to play "devils advocate" for the gamesmanship of it.

Yes, "being reasonable" is the real issue here. I'm sick to death of the lack of it.

[zipplewrath]

31. Hey, he asked for the job

Several commentators mentioned during the campaign that whomever won was getting the job impossible. The situation was badly screwed up coming in and the people had very high expectations. Surely Obama knew this coming in. If he didn't, he was a fool. He ain't no fool. So this whining about how hard the job is basically is just silly.

[HughMoran]

32. He didn't ask to be stabbed

Go on, enjoy playing Devil's advocate - nothing I say will change your demeanor.

[zipplewrath]

34. Who's stabbing him?

Really? Who is acting in any unpredictable manner? The GOP? The conservative democrats? The centrists, moderates, liberals, progressives, whackos? Exactly what part of the electorate is acting in a way that he didn't know the day he decided to run for the job? It's like playing for the Red Sox and complaining about left field. It ain't like everyone didn't know what they were getting into.

[HughMoran]

36. He never asked to be stabbed

Just because people predictably can (and have), doesn't make it right.

[zipplewrath]

37. It makes it kinda silly to complain about it.

It's like complaining about loud music at a rock concert. Exactly what did you think was going to happen?

[HughMoran]

38. I'm not complaining

That's the point.

[zipplewrath]

42. The OP was

And that was MY point.

[treestar]

41. The job is not impossible

You'd be complaining about it not being done fast enough however fast it was done. And we all knew it had to involve Congress. Expectations they would just sit there and obey the far left were unreasonable.

[zipplewrath]

43. Unreasonable expectations are part of the job

Actually, they're part of ALOT of jobs.

[treestar]

40. When you come right down to it, it is not his job to get jobs going

Not at all. All he has to do is enforce the laws. Do what the Constitution says.

This is not a state run economy.

As to setting bars for other people, set some for yourself. Set them so high that you don't succeed at all of them.

[Autumn]

5. Very good post,

and very true. K/R

[kentuck]

8. Thanks Autumn.

I was simply trying to be honest.

[RoyGBiv]

10. How are you being honest?

[Autumn]

16. You got it exactly right

He is not a Republican. He is a Democrat. So he will never match the standards of their little god Reagan, who was the most incompetent SOB who ever stepped foot in the White house.

[RoyGBiv]

9. Really?

In what way is it "very true"?

[kentuck]

13. Did you even read the post?

Or just the first sentence??

[RoyGBiv]

19. Yes, I did ...

Explain to me the meaning of "very true."

Is it in some way different from "true"? Do different levels of "true" exist? If so, how does one define them?

[Autumn]

22. Tell you the truth, they probably don't read past

your name. You just don't support the President to their standards.

[mkultra]

47. "You just don't support the President" there. fixed

[Autumn]

49. Hi . Hows it going?

:hi:

[Autumn]

15. Do you fucking dispute the fact that Obama

saved us from disaster? Do you dispute the fact that he is pulling us out of Iraq? How many of our so called Democratic leaders get out tell everyone what he has done that has helped us? No they sit there letting the republicans spew shit and don't even bother to correct them. You don't like the poster don't fucking click on his threads. All you do is go into the threads of people who you think don't support Obama to your fucking standards and shit all over the thread, Ignore is your fucking friend. You are so fucking transparent it's pathetic.

[RoyGBiv]

17. Seriously ...

You have a profanity problem.

[Autumn]

18. Seriously

I don't give a fuck. I have no patience for people who have a persecution complex. It was a well thought out post worthy of discussion and you with your little solidarity shit can't see the forest for the trees. I am done, you bore me.

[RoyGBiv]

21. Of course you don't ...

Being profane makes you feel better because you think extremism validates your opinion.

Most ideologues work that way. Substance is less important than presentation, and the more extreme the presentation, the better.

[zipplewrath]

44. Not exactly dispute.

"saved us from disaster?

Well.... I'm not sure if you are referring to TARP, the Stimulus, or what. The TARP was passed before he came into office. He continued to administrate it, but much of the "saving" had already been done. He saved GM, all the jobs associated with that. And I'da bet McCain wouldn't have. The stimulus didn't "save" us from disaster, it moderated the depth of the disaster that happened.

he is pulling us out of Iraq

In the sense that he is executing the SOFA, yes. And yes, I also suspect that a McCain would have found a way to get out of the SOFA, or delay and modify it.

How many of our so called Democratic leaders get out tell everyone what he has done that has helped us?

Pelosi and Reid to name two big ones. Admittedly because they will live or die by them too.


And, dude, caffine free is your friend.

[Autumn]

45. Caffeine isn't my problem

I just get irritated when people like to shit on a thread without even having an opinion on the subject,just because the OP doesn't fit their loyalty test. Imagine how bad things would have been without the stimulus, so yeah IMO it did save us. I will give you Pelosi and Reid but where the hell are the others? Bennet here in CO just complains about the deficit,and Kaine, Mr Invisible who is just busy touting new logos, don't hear a hell of a lot from him. As for McCain pulling out of Iraq, it's fine with him if it takes 100 years. That would have been a disaster. You do make some very good points. I thought your above post was excellent. Post #4

[impik]

11. Americans did not expect "change", they expected miracles, they expected him to walk on water

And now they're all SHOCKED that he couldn't do it. And his so-called "supporters" managed to give one of the most productive and progressive legislation period in history, a "failure" narrative.

[Lost4words]

20. fail,

[HughMoran]

26. Yes, Fail

Never seeing a positive is not the way we're supposed to live.

[kentuck]

24. I agree that expectations were not met with many in the Party.

They wanted a complete divorce from the Bush years. But, it's like he still has visitation rights. But whose job is it to sell the success of this President and Administration? Is it the job of the detractors or his supporters? And why can't his supporters sell it?

[bvar22]

23. The difference is....

...Bush the Lesser actually delivered the meat for the Partisan Right.
He wasted no time "seeking bi-partisan consensus".
He watered down nothing to keep the other side happy.
He gave them something to CHEER about.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

28. This has been a weakness....

After the spectacularly successful message of his campaign, I've found it curious that the Administration has been less successful in crafting a cogent theme or message about its efforts to stimulate the economy. It's not just that Obama has Fox News banging away at him and his policies 24/7 -- because it's not like Glen Beck and his ilk gave him a free pass during the campaign.

I know that not everybody on this board thinks Health Care Reform went far enough -- I'm one of them -- but it went far enough to be one of the most significant social welfare programs of our generation. His Wall Street reforms haven't gone far enough, but they're still pretty significant when you consider the trajectory this country has been on in the past thirty years.

Obama has been given the task of stopping a runaway train, and those suckers don't exactly stop on a dime. He's made significant progress on a variety of issues, and I'm confident that there's going to be more to come in the next six years, but right now he's just not getting credit for a job well-started, if not well-done.

[kentuck]

30. I think that is a fair assessment.

It's "a job well-started".

[zipplewrath]

35. Actually, no

"but it went far enough to be one of the most significant social welfare programs of our generation.

That would probably be Medicare Part D. It affected WAY more people. All you have to realize is that the ONLY change that we've made to that program is to start to close the donut hole, and you begin to realize it wasn't all that much different from what the dems would have passed. Truth is, because the dems would never have dared to run up the deficit that much, they probably would have passed a more tame version. They probably would have allowed price negotiations, although they took a pass on that this time around.

And I'm not sure what you consider "out generation". Because if you're going back to LBJ, he's got it beat by a long shot.

You might get under the wire with the qualifier of "one of the". Yes, it is "one" of the most significant. But considering that there aren't that many AT ALL, that's not much of a claim.

[elleng]

33. Remember, no good deed goes unpunished.

[treestar]

39. Of course he's a great salesman

He became the first black POTUS.

If the American people put the Rs back in because the economy is not good enough, they are dunces. Or they really believe unemployment will go down if unemployment benefits are cut off. Or the wars the Rs started will be stopped faster by the Rs. Or they just don't remember the Republicans being in power. True morans.

[CakeGrrl]

46. While you're slighting the President again, don't forget to

save some for the ever corporate-friendly, Teabag-loving, Republican-bolstering MSM. They might have a bit of influence in what people perceive as success, don'tcha think?