Let the damn tax cuts expire

[ProSense]

How House Dems Might Still Vote On Middle-Class Tax Cuts

Brian Beutler

Senate Democrats officially scrapped any and all plans for a pre-election vote on middle-income tax cuts yesterday evening. And for the entirety of the tax cut debate, House Dems have said they will take action only after the Senate takes care of business. So that's it, right? No vote, no way.

There's still one way it could happen, and House aides stress that -- as unlikely as a vote may seem right now -- no official final decision has been made. That decision will likely come early next week.

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"The following proposal is one of the many that might satisfy more Members than either of the two currently on the table," they write.

A five year extension of the current middle class rates for individuals making under $200,000 and families making under $250,000 annually.

A five year extension of the current rates on long-term capital gains and qualified dividends.

A one year extension of the higher rates only for individuals and joint filers making under $500,000 annually.

Republicans have been adamant that tax rates stay the same on all income levels, so it's hard to see them biting, particularly with members set to return to their districts on Thursday. But these are the options on the table.

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Ugh! What the hell happened to making the middle-class tax cuts permanent?

If they're going to vote, separate the tax cuts into two bills, middle class and rich, and then vote. Take a damn stand.

[ProSense]

1. Comment from anyone who likes this proposal? n/t

[harun]

4. Let them all expire IMHO. Better to start paying down debt now instead of passing

it on to our kids.

[customerserviceguy]

17. That's my feeling

But this thing has the potential to be a rather dangerous political hot potato.

[Enrique]

2. there's no reason for us to be negotiating at all

if ALL the tax cuts expire, we would go back to Clinton levels. There would be no adverse impact on the economy, in fact it would help the economy since the deficit would be reduced greatly.

We are conducting this debate as if the tax cuts expiring is not a possiblity, therefore we must issue concession after concession to the republicans.

This is utterly false. We are in the driver's seat and our position is the popular one in the polls. The fact that we are backing away from our popular position makes me suspicious.

[Deep13]

5. right! +1

[flpoljunkie]

7. Can't agree when so many in middle class are struggling to make ends meet with stagnant wages

[niceypoo]

20. If all the Bush tax cuts expire we will be back in surplus by 2015

Had the Bush tax cuts never happened in the first place we would have been in surpluses until AT LEAST 2007. It's a no brainer

[DrDan]

3. I must be missing something.

Doesn't this pretty much guarantee that the D's will be accused of being willing to let taxes rise in an economy where we need an influx of cash?

Why are we not taking middle-class tax cuts to a vote? How could this possibly hurt us? Either the R's vote for it - or they open themselves up to being against a significant tax cut.

What am I missing?

[ProSense]

8. There is no rush. Also,

the taxes automatically expire. Democrats can introduce President Obama's permanent middle-class tax cuts and make them retroactive.

[DrDan]

11. this is not an election issue?

[flpoljunkie]

6. Agree. Take. a. damn. stand!

[Enrique]

10. you're simultaneously demanding take a stand and concede

you're saying take a stand, but taking a stand means there might be no bill. But above, you reject even the possibility of no bill passing.

The GOP can filibuster absolutely anything they want. Their demands can be unlimited and Bayh, et al will back them up. If we say that passing a bill is essential, then that will require giving them everything they want.

[flpoljunkie]

12. I think you meant to address this to the OP, ProSense.

As for me, I say put them on the record--Republicans and Conservadems, alike. If put to a vote, they will not vote against middle class tax cuts. And, in the Senate, let the Republicans vote against cloture and show all Americans where they stand.

[Whisp]

22. and who exactly is going to show all Americans where the Pugs stand?

the media?

We keep forgetting that little part. The media is very very shy about exposing the assholioness of the GOP. They are the Protectors of the GOP and would twist in the wind to find an angle to shield them.

Have to think about this like always having one hand tied behind your back.

[flpoljunkie]

23. Stewart did a kickass job last night exposing the Republicans' 'Pledge to America.'

Jon Stewart's Takedown Of GOP's 'Pledge To America': 'Same Sh*t We Heard Before'

Video also at link: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/09/jon-stewarts-takedown-of-gops-pledge-to-america-same-sht-we-heard-before-video.php

[ProSense]

14. No,

"If we say that passing a bill is essential, then that will require giving them everything they want."

No one said passing a bill is essential before the tax cuts expire. That is not the point. The point is that passing the middle-class tax cuts is the desired outcome, but not if it means giving Republicans everything they want.

Give them middle-class tax cuts and let them stand up for it as they claim they'll do in their "Pledge"

The Senate doesn't have the votes to extend the tax cuts. Still, why should the House vote on an undesireable bill?

If the House votes on the middle-class tax cuts, the blue dogs will not vote for it. That's fine, and that's the vote they should hold.

Why should the Dem leadership craft a bill to please blue dogs and Republicans? That's not how Congress works. The minority doesn't get to dictate which bills come to the floor.

If the tax cuts expire because Republicans refuse to vote for the middle-class cuts, Dems can introduce President Obama's permanent middle-class cuts and make them retroactive. Either way, Republicans have to decide if they're for or against the middle class.

[Enrique]

15. it sounds like we agree

I agree it doesn't make sense at any level for the Congress to send a tax cut bill more generous to the rich than Obama's proposal, but it looks pretty clear that they're going to do just that. I'm seeing specific numbers. Obama's 250,000 is going to go up to 1,000,000 under one proposal, and I think it's very possible that it will go up further than that.

[Milo_Bloom]

9. Wow. I agree.

The only part I disagree with is I wouldn't bring the tax cuts for the rich up for a vote at all.

I also wish they would stop using the phrase "bush tax cuts" and start using the correct phrase and explain they are trying to stop the "bush tax hike for the middle class"

[Bitwit1234]

13. I said and still say...yes let them expire ...but in the meantime

BEFORE they expire propose a tax cut to equal the one the middle class is getting now. And see what the republicans do. AND I'd do it before the election. Make it a separate bill with only those under $250K getting the cut. If they do that it would screw the republicans into the trash heap. But Democrats show us more and more each day they have no balls or backbone or spine or guts or whatever you want to call it.

[kentuck]

16. Why vote on the taxcuts for the millionaires at all?

Why give it a chance to pass?

[ProSense]

18. Actually, I don't think they should vote on the tax cuts for the rich either.

It was simply a point to separate them. There is no need to vote on them, they will automatically expire.

[kentuck]

19. Agreed.

Bring up the middle-class tax cuts. If they fail, they fail. Then bring them up again after the elections. Under no circumstances should they vote to extend the taxcuts for the millionaires.

[Enrique]

21. the dems can filibuster any tax cuts for the rich

and Obama can veto any tax cuts for the rich. I agree with your "under no circumstances" sentiment, and the dems clearly have the power to prevent it, but I don't see them using it.

[Ignis]

24. K&R. "Take a damn stand."

This frustration is precisely how some progressives have been feeling on other issues.

I'm glad this is an issue we can all get behind. :patriot:

[Gin]

25. let them all expire....no vote needed....just let it go and get the

damn issue off the table

[MadHound]

26. Wow ProSense, you and I are in agreement, a rare occurence.

Frankly I would like to see all tax cuts expire. We've got to start working on this whole debt thing quickly, and knocking it down by a few trillion would be a good start. Hell, we could even take 1 trillion of that savings and put it towards a real WPA style jobs program, which would do a hell of lot more good for our economy than tax cuts do.

[bvar22]

27. Mark your calendar.

I just Recommended a post by ProSense.


"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[flpoljunkie]

28. Ah, Paul Wellstone. A man from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

His quote really says it all.

[hulka38]

29. Yes. n/t