Are your a proud DUer? Are you a proud Democrat?

[DFab420]

(this is a post I moved from a topic discussing how many people here are really working towards our common goals)


I came here right before the elections, I found this place to be an exciting sound board for ideas and possibilities of government. While my post count reflects a small number I lurk here pretty much every day from work haha.

While I still find it to be a great source of news from around the country, and even the world, it's difficult to read the comments posted by some people and believe I am still at the same place.

I think, judging by the posts here and I those I see on other boards that it's time for a few very clear lines to be drawn in the sand. I've posted things earlier on about unity here in DU, but I am beginning to see the importance of repetition. I think the only way to fix this over flowing force of negativity is to now actively engage it on a post to post basis. Not to self-moderate our boards, but at least defend the line.


1. President Obama is OUR President. I think we have lost sight of the idea of defending the administration, due to our previous eight years with *. When people post here calling them corporate sell-outs, or DINOs, or traitors to the liberal ideals, I think we as a community should come together and point out that person is wrong, and if they persist we can politely so them the door.

2.There is nothing wrong with a bit of pride here people. WE have had a good two years legislatively, rough seas most of the way, but we are weathering the storm.

3. Can we please stop with the, "they could've done more" or "they sold out single payer". It makes us sound like children who were given 3 cookies and got upset we didn't get 5. I think the line should be more like, Thank god we have an administration that is leading us in the right direction after eight years of hell. Thank god we have a President who is CLEARLY a liberal candidate, and while may not be progressive enough on all issues, at least has the for-sight to allow the proper paths to a progressive America to be built-up."

And finally, please remember the Democratic party is like America, built up of a wide range of political beliefs and ideals, from democrats to progressives to greens and beyond, but we are all here trying to work together. Just remember that, Together. Because it was together we brought this administration in, and it will be together we keep moving our country forward.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. If people make promises, they need to at least TRY to stick to them

Otherwise, how do we know who to vote for?

$12+ trillion in taxpayer cash at risk to help the bankers, and we still haven't re-instated Glass-Steagall. Economists with a track record of being correct for many years have been ignored in favor of far-right swine like Summers and Geithner - and some people actually wonder why unemployment is 20% while banker bonuses are a new record, a full 1% of GDP.

Continuation off endless war, warrentless wiretapping, secret prisons to name a few of Bus's greatest hits.

And I don't like being called nasty names by someone I helped elect. We FDR Democrats deserve respect.

[DFab420]

3. Sure you deserve respect,

but when did unemployment jump from 9.6% nationally to 20?

Unemployment Rises to 9.6% for August 2010

-http://www.ncsl.org/?tabid=13307

Oh and how about H.C.R? Not progressive enough for you? Seriously? It was more then anyone has done in the last 60 years. American government is always about getting it done the way one side wants. The right wanted nothing, we wanted single-payer, we gave up single payer, we got health reform. Yes there are mandates, but there is also no preexisting conditions, no caps, no policy cancellations. The elderly don't get forced into ridiculous prescription plans.

You can learn about it here: http://www.healthcare.gov/

Or the protection of the American Auto-Workers?

Or the 20 billion dollar escrow fund?

ALSO.. nasty names? haha really? grow up. You sling mud a him and his administration all year, he tosses you one or two back you, not even to you, just to a generalization that you take personally, and you take umbrage? That's a bit silly. You want respect? Start giving it.

[jenmito]

8. I K&R this post for speaking the truth. n/t

[babylonsister]

42. Oooh, snap! Nice touch, and well deserved! nt

[Cha]

46. ..

:fistbump: :hi:

[HughMoran]

53. Reply = right on!

:toast:

[Riley133]

69. So what about HCR?

Companies' premiums are rising all over the place to cover the new mandates. Insurers are stopping writing children's policies to get out of not being able to deny pre-existing. There are loopholes to this whole thing, and besides which:

IT IS LARGELY STILL UNAFFORDABLE.

So YAY for me, I can't get denied for a pre-existing....I just won't be able to pay for it.

This is NOT progress.

[dionysus]

70. manny, you wouldn't be fabricating statistics again, would you?

:eyes:

[Frustratedlady]

2. I'm still with Obama/Biden all the way. Give them a chance to complete

the monumental tasks they inherited. If, at the end of their term, they haven't filled your expectations, go your way. Until then, stand behind them. Truth be known, none of us could follow Obama around for one day...don't forget, he travels, works at night and gets little rest. Could any of you do that? Not me.

[DFab420]

4. Amen

with a "hear hear" after

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

48. I was accused of being a member of the "privileged" and of "having nerve," just because I dared...

to suggest that we progressives take heart and be patient.

I find it very interesting that Clinton got 8 years, many of his policies taking us to the place where we are now.

I find it very interesting that Bush got 8 years, many of his policies taking us to the place where we are now.

But, Obama can't get two years. Not even two years?

Why is that? Why?

[Frustratedlady]

51. Well, I'm not privileged and I feel the same as you.

I don't remember if Obama even got a honeymoon.

This is, in my opinion, the most impressive First Family that has ever lived in the White House and they have been more active than any First Couple I can remember in my many years of watching politics.

Too bad some of his critics didn't look at him as half-white. Perhaps he would be given that extra time.

He is My President, no matter.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

52. He never did! Now I understand that because the Hillary camp and the Republicans kept

repeating that Obama was getting special treatment from the media, most people believed it. But, the negative stories in the M$M never ceased. They never did. From the time he announced his candidacy until now, he has never enjoyed a honeymoon. There never was one. Before he even took the oath, the Republicans made it their mission to shift all blame to Obama for the economy. And sadly, many Democrats have joined in that chorus, simply because the narrative was set and repeated ad nauseam by the M$M/Repukes.

[quiet.american]

58. So true. nt

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Smarmie Doofus]

6. Don't we already have posting rules?

And... no offense... but this sentence gives me the creeps:

>>>>>When people post here calling them corporate sell-outs, or DINOs, or traitors to the liberal ideals, I think we as a community should come together and point out that person is wrong, and if they persist we can politely so them the door.>>>>.

Sounds a little like you want some DUers to play Trotsky to your Stalin.

Bad idea. DU and the DEM Party have survived all variety of ideological internecine warfare. They (we) will endure. No purges. Thanks anyhoo.

[DFab420]

7. Haha

I'm only talking about pointing out active instigators whose sole purpose on this board is to disobey the rules in the first place.

[Smarmie Doofus]

12. Hmmm. So it's just a few "active instigators" you're after.

I feel so relieved. So mollified.

Gosh. No one's ever going to get mad at *me* and want to get *me* banned. So I won't worry.


The mods and administrators periodically identify trolls ( no offense, again) taking their low post countinto account along with of course, their posting content.

Occasionally someone with a high post count will get "shown the door" but this is rare. If someone's been here a long time their " sole purpose" is very UNLIKELY to be to " disobey the rules in the first place."

If that were their intention, they wouldn't have been here for a long time.

I really don't see what you're trying to accomplish.

[DFab420]

25. Well since I'm back at my computer I will tell you what I am trying

to accomplish.


First off, thank you for insinuating that I am a troll, just because my post count reflects a quality over quantity post doesn't give you the upper hand in any discussion, if you really think your seniority here affords you the right to be..well Smarmie.. with me then that is an unfortunate thing.

There now that is out of the way what I am trying to accomplish here is to bring a sense of unity to an otherwise dysfunctional party. I am sorry if the idea of everyone banding together for common ideals doesn't seem like a good thing to you, but I can show you just as many movements that have had good come out of their unification, as they have had evil.

What I am trying to accomplish is trying to stamp out the pessimistic defeatism that seems like the newest fad to touch our party.

I am sorry for bringing this up, apparently arguing with ourselves is something we simply can't move past.

[Smarmie Doofus]

40. People thought I was a troll during the Kerry campaign...

... because I would critique him harshly post convention , not because I didn't like him... I DID... but because I wanted him to WIN. My conspicuously low post count undoubtedly contributed to their error. I was aware of this at the time, and didn't sweat it. In the same fashion, you should realize that if you come in here with 178 posts and suggest that people who've been posting here for years be "shown the door", people are going to suspect your motives.

That said, I wasn't accusing you of being a troll; I was acknowledging the awkwardness of your own post count while explaining that the moderators take THAT ( i assume this to be true, anyway) factor into account when trying to figure out who is a troll and who is not. The point being that the moderators seem to be doing OK up to now and WE REALLY DON'T NEED A NEW MORE RESTRICTIVE POSTING POLICY. Which is what you're advocating.

Re. the rest of your post: you're not going to get unity just by demanding it. People have legitimate reservations with the administration. You may not see it but if you're, for example, GLBT, a teacher, peace activist, etc you might be less concerned with "unity" and more concerned with finding the DEM party that used to fight for these things.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. funny thing about that rule...

it doesn't apply to those who call others "professional left"

[DevonRex]

9. I'm a proud Democrat.

I used to recommend DU to all my Dem friends and colleagues. Now I don't even mention it. But I am working very hard for the Dem Senate candidate here so that takes up a lot of the time that I used to spend on DU. The timing has been rather fortuitous in that respect.

Today I decided I needed a break from campaigning so I checked out the threads here. I probably should have stopped at the Sunday Morning LOLcats.

[dionysus]

71. now now, i think you need to decrompress. a little time on the yatch, a picnic basket of truffles,

perhaps some nice wine... will fix you right up.

and if that fails... time to play with te cruise missle console!

:hi:

[DevonRex]

73. Ah, that sounds nice. Truffles on the yacht while pushing buttons

on the cruise missile console. That'll relieve the stress - as long as I don't see another Oprah thread. She's teh ebil now, in case you hadn't heard.

[jannyk]

10. Unrec ! You? You are going to show us 'the Door'!!!!???!!!

Better than you have tried methinks.

"When people post here calling them corporate sell-outs, or DINOs, or traitors to the liberal ideals, I think we as a community should come together and point out that person is wrong, and if they persist we can politely so them the door."

The Blue Dogs are fucking DINO's!!!! What part of that don't you understand?? By the way, I copied the following from your profile - it's your quote -


"Speak truth, even if it doesn’t support your point of view, at least you can hold your head up high and look others in the eyes." Try implementing it!

:mad:

[DFab420]

26. Hi Hi

I am actually glad you brought up the blue-dogs, cause I don't remember defending them. I am defending the administration of the man we voted for. Who YES does on occasion side with the blue dog democrats, but that is simply the function of governing. You must, on occasion, deal with the devil and smile while doing it.

So yes, Blue-Dogs leave a bad taste in our mouths, the kind you get from sitting next to your great aunt Edna for too long, but they aren't in control, If you want to fight the blue-dogs, then please go right ahead, but don't punish the Obama Administration for working with them, they have to work with everyone. Its how the whole thing really works.

And what part of my OP or any other post that I have said has been untrue? Please, since you like to quote me, show me. In all sincerity I don't think I have lied in a single post, if I have then show me so I can address it.

[SoxFan]

47. DU Rules

"Do not say that you are hitting the alert link to report another member."

"There are no exceptions to these civility rules."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[OnyxCollie]

59. DU Rules

"Do not spam the message board by posting the same message repeatedly, or by posting a flood of different messages.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html

[flyarm]

11. You OP asked a question..it seems you will not allow anyone to answer without

trying to subject their answers, with your smears! and innuendo. And nastily I might add. With zero objectivity, nor listening to anything but your own voice.

[DFab420]

29. What answers

have I been given? Other then attacks about who I am as a person, the only person here who has actually talked about anything I posted was Manny, to which I responded with more truthful numbers then his/her own. Then I made counter-points showing the good that the Obama administration has done in under two years. What smears? What innuendo? Just because I told people who were unreccing me without even saying anything to the subject to bite me you take offense?

All I offered in my OP was a way to bring a bit of unity to our board. And now you attack me, then leave without declaring yourself on any of the topics I produced in my OP? Now who has zero objectivity...

[Dr.Phool]

13. I'd comment, but I'd probably get TS'd.

Big unrec.

[awoke_in_2003]

18. "It's better to burn out...

than fade away" :)

[dionysus]

72. why don't you tell us how you feel?

[azmouse]

14. Proud Democrat.

Prouder DUer? No comment.

[old mark]

15. I'm proud to be a Democrat - I'm just not sure what the administration is.

They LOVE the Patriot Act - they are appeasing the right and complaining about the left.

I will certainly vote Democratic and I have and will support Democratic candidates, even in different states, but I have no idea what happened to the Democratic Party other than it seems to have been taken over by gutless inept punks.

mark

[MyNameIsKhan]

17. I have followed DU for 3 years and this is great group of Dems

amen, I am proud Dem and Du'er

[Fearless]

19. I am proud to question all actions regardless the source.

It isn't our duty, IMHO to defend the president, but defend the democratic ideals he must support. A man is nothing without ideals, without ethics, and it is the voters' duty to remind politicians of theirs from time to time and reward those who keep to them.

[Exilednight]

76. BRAVO!! Well Said. n/t

[jaxx]

20. K&R for the sense to spell it out.

You got swarmed down thread but don't let that bother you. It's just how those who don't like the Dems and DU show the love. ;-)

[oswaldactedalone]

21. To hell with all your disappointments about a piece of...

legislation that didn't go your way. Vote Democratic, help others vote Democratic, then we'll sort out the rest of it later. What is so hard to understand about that?

[Riley133]

67. Because most I know are DROPPING their insurance

Many for the first time, all over the age of 50. What's so hard to understand about THAT?

[COLGATE4]

22. Just a touch condescending, don't you think?

"It makes us sound like children who were given 3 cookies and got upset we didn't get 5."

[DFab420]

24. Just because it's condescending

doesn't take the truth out of the statement.

[flyarm]

28. Bullies encourage no one!..not a good GOTV tactic! eom

[DFab420]

31. And coddling leads to apathy not a good GOTV tactic either.

[Born_A_Truman]

23. Yes, how dare people come to DU and expect to

see Democrats supported.

:think:


Really! The noive!!

:eyes:

[LWolf]

27. I am:

1. A DUer.
2. A Democrat.
3. One who takes pride in my work, my family, and my life, but does not take pride in group identities.
4. One who doesn't shut up and get in anyone's line, who cares more about issues than party or personality, whose positions don't change based who's been elected.
5. One whose loyalty is given, not to party nor to personality, but to principles.
6. One whose votes and political support are given to those that earn them.

[flyarm]

30. great post! thank you! eom

[LWolf]

32. You're welcome.

I don't understand why a post encouraging some DUers to show others "the door" is still standing.

:hi:

[DFab420]

33. I like your first post

You sound like someone who knows their priorities in life.

Also, if you read my OP post carefully, I am actually asking for people who do nothing on the board but downtalk the good we have been doing the past two years, I ask that they get shown the door. Because this is a place, as it states right in the rules, this is a place to SUPPORT the democratic party, and at a point constructive criticism ceases being supportive and becomes divisive, it crosses a line between wanting the administration to do better to just crapping on anything the administration does

[LWolf]

44. If you think someone should be shown the door, you click "alert."

DUers don't decide who gets to stay or who doesn't; that's a mod and admin decision.

This is also a self-described "left-wing" message board that is not affiliated with the Democratic Party. There are often conflicts between the twin identities, because the Democratic Party is, in no way, "left-wing." Unless the site owners decide to choose between the two, there will always be some tension.

Common goals? My goals don't have to do with party; they have to do with issues. I have common goals with many DUers, and opposing goals with some. On issues.

I support elected Democrats who work positively, or at least don't cause harm, on those issues. I don't support those who take positions that I consider harmful.

I vote for Democrats who I think will do the same; I don't vote for those who won't. I also observe DU rules. I don't campaign against Democrats running for office on this board, except for during primary season, when supporting one Democrat means opposing others.

That's reality, and that reality is part of DU.

[Raster]

64. Thank you!

[HughMoran]

34. Excellent post

You make some great points - sadly this site may be too far gone to be a site for Democrats any more.

Your positive rallying post is being unrecced to death - pretty sad if you ask me.

[DFab420]

35. Thank You Hugh

I really wasn't expecting such a negative response.. However they can't keep me down.

DUnity or bust!

[SeattleGirl]

36. Very proud Democrat here.

Proud DUer? I'm not so sure anymore, because this place has been overrun with people who can't find one good thing to say about any of the accomplishments of the Obama Administration. Are their criticism to be given to this Administration? Of course. But some people confuse bitching 24/7/365 with constructive criticism, so I, like someone else said in this thread, don't really recommend DU the way I used to.

I like your post, DFab420. You make some very good points.

Definitely recommending.

[muffin1]

62. Also a very proud Democrat here.

Proud DUer? I'm not so sure anymore, because this place has been overrun with people who agree with everything done by the Obama administration - even identical policies they hated under George W. Bush. They compare things like Equal Rights to "cookies" and "ponies". They blame the left for pushing Obama to do what he promised - even though Obama himself asked us to do just that.

I do not recommend DU anymore, and I certainly do not recommend this OP.

[unapatriciated]

79. lol

Proud D also. Sad that there are those who think we need to be shown the door if we criticize policies that are in opposition of the Dem platform or ideals.

[DailyGrind51]

37. I am a proud independent Progressive who does not believe in "knee-jerk" support.

[quiet.american]

38. D'Fabulous post. A big K&R! Shout it from the rooftops, baby! nt

[BlueIdaho]

39. Proud Democrat - Yes!

Proud member of DU? Not right now, in fact if this place continues on it's current course, I'll be surprised if it's still here in 2012.

[JNelson6563]

41. Hi DFab420! A belated welcome to you!!

:hi: :toast:


I like your post and agree with your views. I have done much work for the Dem party and continue to work on various campaigns. When I see those who do little but complain and criticize it confirms for me that poster has likely never worked, I mean really *worked* a campaign and it's easy for them to just play the shit flinging monkey. They have little to nothing invested to begin with.

On the other hand, if they are here pissing and moaning, hammering away at countless threads flinging their shit, at least they aren't out in the real world making nuisances of themselves to our fellow activists in said shit flinging monkey's corner of the world.

Julie--who tries to find the bright side of any situation

[babylonsister]

43. Thank you for this; wise words. Rec'd. nt

[firedupdem]

45. K&R

Nice Post and spot on!

[Tarheel_Dem]

49. Yes!

:dem:

[Hissyspit]

50. No, it's not difficult to believe you in the same place.

People are still talking about and standing up for the same principles they have since DU's inception.

[HughMoran]

54. ...and the big "D" in Democrat has been thrown out the window

Please don't miss the point.

[Hissyspit]

55. I didn't miss the point.

Maybe the "Big D" wouldn't get lost if people didn't use "Children who didn't get their cookies" analogies.

[HughMoran]

56. I think adults don't get ruffled by a little disagreement or name-calling

Dontcha think?

Isn't the overall party more important than the off-the-cuff comments made now and then?

I think so. I'm not going to cut off my nose to spite my face.

[rug]

65. If you do, you can use that big D in a circle to cover the hole.

Now, don't get ruffled, tiger.

[Kaleva]

57. kicked & rec'd

[CakeGrrl]

60. K/R - from a Democrat who

understands that now more than ever is not the time to give Rs any votes - directly or by default.

Straight Dem ticket, period.

[saltpoint]

61. Been on DU a while, been a Democrat a lot longer, and

find of late that the administrators do not appear to present a clear mission on how they want this site to be.

The rules do state that members are expected to generally support Democratic candidates for public office, or current incumbent Democratic office-holders. As it's written, that's pretty clear, but enforcement is obviously inconsistent, despite a noble effort by the moderators.

People in a Kurtz-like Leftist jungle will never support the Democratic Party or this Democratic President. Those who worked for the blue team and this president -- often including but not limited to those who contributed to donation drives generated and coordinated by this site during the 08 campaign -- find it increasingly puzzling that the site's administrators condone anti-Democratic and anti-Obama threads on their Greatest page. Pro-Democrats here have to run a gauntlet of subversion and derision just to assert their affiliation with the Democratic Party or to post praise in support of Barack Obama.

The administrators appear to sanction this, despite their own posted rules to the contrary.

The questions being asked in many posts on this site about the overall mission statement are appropriate, IMO, but the administrators are the ones who ought to be asking them.

[JNelson6563]

74. Well said Saltpoint.

As usual.

Julie

[saltpoint]

75. Hi, JNelson. Good to see you 'round these

parts.

We're not in the same Congressional district as voters, but I bet we'll be at the polls early this coming November.

I'll see ya there in spirit!

:hi:

[Hekate]

77. Well said, Saltpoint.

:applause:

[jeanpalmer]

78. What would this site have done

in 1968 when the Party threw out a sitting President who had escalated a criminal war? In spite of his getting the Civil Rights Act passed. Would the people who supported Eugene McCarthy have been banned from DU for not supporting the president? How many anti-Lyndon Johnson threads would there have been? And you would have had them banned.

[saltpoint]

80. A question best addressed to the administrators.

The site came about in response to political events long after McCarthy's and Kennedy's challenge to Johnson.

The primary system, flawed though it is, is not under attack. Or in any case, I'm personally not attacking it. I'd like to see it changed, but the changes I'd like involve public financing of elections and a condensed calendar with all-region representation.

Specifically, I'd like 17 primaries held on say, the first Saturday in May of an election year, then 17 more on the third Saturday of May, then the remainder held the second Saturday in June That's roughly 6 or so weeks for the entire primary season, and the states would be drawn randomly each year so that no one demographic could be strategically targeted to favor a given candidate, and all candidates would have the exact same amount of time to gather forces and resources. New Hampshire might be in the second group the first cycle, then in the next cycle, it might be last, etc.

DU does not question a Democratic candidate's primary bid, so far as I've ever seen. When LIeberman lost the Democratic primary in Connecticut against Ned Lamont, that made Lamont the Democratic candidate, and DU supported the Democratic candidate.

[NJmaverick]

63. I am a proud Democrat

:kick:

[Riley133]

66. Will you pay for my health insurance?

In ohio in 2014, over one million will be helped with their insurance. These are tax credits, and you have to pay the costs up front. How does that help those who are struggling? Additionally, the tax credits are only for privately purchased insurance - not insurance provided by your employer. How does that help those who are struggling?

Over one million is part of one big city in Ohio. The rest get nothing. Really? I'm supposed to be proud?

Again, I ask - will you pay for my health insurance?

http://blog.dispatch.com/health/2010/09/over_1_million_ohioans_to_get.shtml

[HughMoran]

68. Maybe a Republican will pay for your insurance?

:shrug: