Obama Calls for Big Education Reforms - More Charter Schools, Longer School Year

[dkf]

The U.S. education system needs to undergo dramatic reform, President Obama said today -- with new investments but also with new policies.

"You can't defend a status quo in which a third of our kids are dropping out," the president said this morning during a live interview on NBC's "Today Show." "You can't defend a status quo when you've got 2,000 schools across the coutry that are drop out factories."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20017666-503544.html

[jaxx]

1. My sister attended a year round high school in the 70s.

Public school. It was good, kept them up and didn't use the first month of school to play let's remember what we learned last year.

[DrDan]

2. how about channeling some of those war costs to our children's schools

oh wait . . . gotta fund those wars

[bergie321]

3. Not enough profit

In education. If there was, I am sure we would see Haliburton Schools popping up everywhere.

[DrDan]

7. the bush family sees some profit in it

[ibegurpard]

63. sure there is

you control curriculum you can produce unquestioning little drones who don't pester you with demands for decent wages, benefits, and other things we take for granted.
How are the tests they're teaching to going to measure critical thinking skills?

[Tarheel_Dem]

4. Yup. Let's just throw more money at it. That's worked up to now.

NOT!

[flpoljunkie]

5. More money for pre-K for those who would come to school unprepared would be well spent.

Many, if not most, states have inadequate pre-K--Florida, among them.

[Tarheel_Dem]

26. Agreed. But I was addressing the illogical responses here whenever the..

administration tries to broach the topic of education. There's no rational debate on this subject because the self appointed activists at DU won't allow it. Just accusations, misleading headlines, and accusing everyone else of trying to silence them. This administration's job is to save our education system, not inadequate teachers' jobs.

It's as if the teacher's unions want to write their own legislation, which every industry/profession would like to do. But doesn't that upset the activists' among us? Especially since they've claimed that lobbyists have been writing bills left & right? These things just can't be discussed without irrational emotion here.

It's kinda funny when you think about it, the people who claim that supporters of the administration have a "with us, or against us" mentality, display those very same attributes when it comes to the teachers unions.

Thanks for your reply.

[DrDan]

35. do you really not see dwindling school budgets (leading to signficant teacher downsizing) as a major

cause of the current problems?

Do you truly not believe smaller classes lead to better results?

Do you think providing classroom supplies is the responsibility of the teacher?

Sure - get rid of "bad" teachers. There are processes to do that.

Like it or not - money is an issue. Firing teachers and building more charters is not the panacea.

[dionysus]

52. whoa, them's fightin' woids.. put up yer... duke?

;)

[Tarheel_Dem]

53. I lost my dukes. Got a extra set?

}(

[dionysus]

54. here, take this! er, these...

[Tarheel_Dem]

61. ....

:rofl:

[DrDan]

6. so all the teachers being laid off is good for our schools . . . .

[Bullet1987]

8. That's the way it seems...I'm tired of the revisionism

The reason schools are failing is because we haven't given a crap about them (financially) and the elitist system it perpetuates on the national level.

[displacedvermoter]

9. Kinda like Afghanistan, right?

displaced

[vaberella]

30. Hardly, unlike everyone else, he was the one with a plan to get us out.

HRC and a few others were saying let the generals have what they want----we'd be in a war with Pakistan now the way some of these military men were talking.

[displacedvermoter]

34. We still seem to be "throwing" a lot of money at something that

isn't working, and has no hope of working, namely the war in Afhganistan (as well as the equally wasteful war in Iraq), while saying that throwing money -- read here making up for decades of inadequte funding ofr things like all-day Kindegarten, etc --at education is somehow a stupid thing to do.

There also seems to be some disconnect on the new DU. If you oppose any facet of the Obama Adminstration's policies, Hillary Clinton's name suddently pops up, as if those in disagreement are still somehow suffering from the primary fights past. Not so the case here, Al Gore broke my heart early, and so no PUMA problem here.

displaced

[vaberella]

49. Well that's not true.

The defense bill just got shot down. However most of that money was actually for veterans than the war. Yes we are currently spending a lot of money but this money of course will eventually stopped. It has been reported for several years now that Obama is ending the war in Afghanistan and troops will be coming out in 2011. So don't think we're in there forever. A year is still a long tim and we still have a war yes, but it will be ending.

Actually no. I used HRC only because I remember being shocked that she told Obama to give military personnel whatever they wanted. While it has been said they are largely the same I was shocked by the divergence there. There was no other reason why I included her name, so there's no need to read into it.

[Hardrada]

12. More money has not been "thrown at it". That is a GOP theme.

War is a drain in blood and treasure and you are mindlessly parroting antiquated cliches. Clear your mind of those!!

[Go2Peace]

16. Some folks will NEVER get it. The same thing that is happening in government

is happening in the schools. All our public institutions are being made less efficient and effective by the political climate. Schools have been under siege by politically based parents groups and DC based initiatives that destroy their effectiveness.

Charter schools are just another of decades of political solutions that only compromise our children's education.

Give these bandits more time and they will go after our public colleges, many of which are considered some of the best in the world (imagine? How can that be?). They will embroil them also in scandal and politics and pick at them. Then 20 years from now our "brilliant" amnesiac population will follow the claim that public colleges can never work! What a bunch of bullshit anti-intellectual, greed based thinking.

[Forkboy]

17. So, we have you down for more money for war, less for schools.

[Uzybone]

10. longer school year is a great idea

many things have to done to fix an education system that has gradually deteriorated for the last 40 years. No one else even lifted a finger.

[Hardrada]

14. Your response is too facile and vague.

Public education has suffered from lack of funding and foolish top-down planning like NCLB. It has to nurtured and mainatained but has been neglected like the rest of the infrastructure.

[Uzybone]

21. and your response is full of the usual garbage that fixes nothing

before NCLB schools were still failing. I'm a bit tired of people acting as if schools were great before Idiotson came into power.

People need to bring ideas to the table, not worry about pinning the blame on this person or that.

[Hardrada]

69. Your mind is full of cliches, old chap.

Why fixate on schools? Why not failing banks, failing churches (pederasts and hate peddlers),a completely failing global capitalist world order and a failing upper class who can't rule intelligently, a failing military busy losing successive wars for us and an entire failing and dying ecosystem? Expand your horizons or do you prefer to pin all our ills on a single element of our society too long under siege by ideologues and those seeking a hostile takeover?

[vaberella]

28. Now it's not about to be neglected.

This is only turning some schools into charter schools----not the entire nation. I agree with you that some may be under funded. In New York what we saw was that teachers were being paid exorbitant amount of money for doing absolutely nothing.

[Hardrada]

68. Hearsay and BS.

[vaberella]

72. I wonder what's hearsay and BS

Some schools will be turned into charter schools. Not all. That's directly in the article which is here:

Part of the administration's educational reforms also include plans to close the poorest performing 5 percent of schools in the nation, turning some of them into charter schools.

So the above is not hearsay or BS.


http://www.manhattan-institute.org/html/_nypost_teacher_pay_myth.htm

http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/education/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_teachers_faking_it_busted_for_calling_out_sick_then_zipping_off_to_sunfilled_hol.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31494936/


And these are light references. There was a scandal in the 90s where a group of teachers were overpaid for doing little to no work. It rocked the city since a few teachers were indicted. So I don't know what you're calling hearsay and BS.

[Go2Peace]

11. Well, at least the truth is out. It is the President himself leading the privatization of schools.

It really seems out of charactor for someone who was a community organizer at one time?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

13. Except that charter schools are public schools.

Nice try though.

[fedupinBushcountry]

32. Pros and cons

Pros

According to proponents:



Charter schools present students and parents with an increasingly diverse array of education options.


The competition provided by charter schools forces school districts to improve the performance of their schools in order to attract and retain students and dollars.


If managed properly, charter schools serve as laboratories for education experimentation and innovation. The easing of certain regulations can free teachers and administrators to develop and implement new learning strategies.


Increased accountability for charter schools means that schools have to perform or risk closure. This extra incentive demands results.
Cons

According to opponents:


Because charter schools operate as a business, as well as a learning institution, they are subject to market forces that may eventually force them to close, depriving students of a continuous education.


Charter schools sometimes segregate students along racial and class lines and fail to adequately serve students with disabilities or limited English proficiency.


Accountability for student performance is difficult to measure and enforce in the burgeoning charter school movement. The usual complications of accurate student measurement are compounded by the often-conflicting demands of the state government’s need for accountability and the marketplace’s desire for opportunity.


The emergence of education management organizations as proprietors of charter schools creates “pseudo-school districts” in which decisions are made far removed from the school.

[DrDan]

36. and there are those that make a profit

good try though

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

38. And individuals don't profit from the traditional public school system as it is and has been?

I've got a bridge to sell you.

[DrDan]

39. of course they do - our past president's brother is a perfect example

who denied that?

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

40. Text book companies don't profit?

Data systems developers don't profit?
Professional development providers don't profit?
Notebook manufacturers? Pencil makers? I could go on and on.

None of those things are bad - and yet profits are made through them. So why is it that a very very small percentage of charter school managers cannot profit if - AND ONLY IF* - they are serving their students well?

*And if they're not, they should meet the same fate as any school - charter or otherwise - that fails its students: immediate closure.

[DrDan]

42. that is not the way it is working

we have a charter in our district that just received an "F" in it most recent evaluation.

Not the board is considering giving them an expansion . . . . does that make any sense?

There are certain areas where the profit motive fails us. And I believe this is one of them.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

44. That charter should absolutely be revoked if that is indeed the evaluation.

You will receive no other argument from me on that. And I will certainly say that this authority to revoke charters needs to be used much more often than it does - no argument from me there either.

[Exilednight]

57. Charter schools are private schools charading as public schools. It's just a way to funnel public

money to private corporations.

If they weren't private corporations they wouldn't have CEOs.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

58. And what, pray tell, would they have?

[Exilednight]

62. How about .............

Maybe something more along the lines of School Administrator, Superintendent, Principal, or any other title that would fit the head of a non-profit education system.

CEOs run companies that are designed to make money. Many of these charter schools are often part of larger conglomerates that bring in tens of millions of public dollars that they in turn funnel to other parts of their company that are fully profitable, like consulting and the so called experts that design their curriculum.

It's amazing how misinformed some people are about charter schools and their profitability.

Not to mention the outrageous salaries that these CEOs pay themselves and their executives while they continually cut teachers pay in the name of "offering incentives to reward the good ones", which has been proven to not work.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

74. I've got news for you - plenty of non-profits have CEOs.

Join the real world, will ya?

[Hardrada]

15. Is he really looking to be a one-termer?

That's what's down the pike with all this elitist garbage of his.

[displacedvermoter]

18. You don't hear him or the Adminstration or his most ardent

defenders here on DU ever mention that now, that he was once a community organizer. That might make people believe that he really campaigned far more to the left than some would have us believe.

[mkultra]

20. actually, we mention it all the time.

those of us who vote democrat and support Obama are fully aware of his credentials.

[displacedvermoter]

23. Shouldn't it be you vote "democratic"?

I read all the time that those of you who improperly use the terms "Democratic" or "Democrat" are "trolls" or "teabaggers". Personally I believe you that you are a big Obama supporter and you vote for Democratic candidates.

Words are funny things, though, like calling an idea "retarded" is a good use of the word, while using the word to call a segment of the Demoratic party "retards", well that would be wrong, I guess.

Displaced (who has always voted for Ds)

[mkultra]

76. using the word Democrat incorrectly indicates a troll

like saying "Democrat senators" is really just a way of saying the word wrong in an attempt to emphasize the "rat" at the end. Saying that you vote democratic is kind of redundant because voting is democratic.

As far as im concerned, the sensitivity about the word "retarded" is....well...retarded.

[mkultra]

19. nice attempt to spin the truth. you spin like a gyroscope.

[Go2Peace]

51. oh yes, I am such a heavy spinner here. LOL .

If you do a search on my name you will find my posts are quite tempored compared to most. But I suppose anyone who disagrees with you must be a "spinner".

I have to laugh at the thought of someone who actually does spend significant effor "Spinning" trying to call out others. :rofl:

[mkultra]

75. well, of the spinners, you are a moderate, but your still a spinner

This absolute lie of a post is a good example. Its so patently false its almost funny. Palin would be proud of you.

[speppin]

25. He is the one who gave Duncan permission to do a long time ago.

[vaberella]

29. How, the charter schools are public schools and will be funded by the states.

So I'm not getting your point.

[craigmatic]

22. I don't agree with Obama on this issue. They're underminding the unions, teacher contributions,

and the role of the parents in education. They blame the teachers when the real fault should go to parents and school administration. If they really want to reform the system why not take away sports when a child can't keep at least a B average. Why not increase funding for tutoring? I went to school year around and all it really did was cut my summer short.

[fedupinBushcountry]

24. My son who is a teacher

and I agree with you 100%. But I don't think he would cut sports, that is a very good way to keep kids involved and to keep their grades up, IMO and his.

[vaberella]

31. You should blame your parents & the school administration for not learning much in year long school.

Aye...how is this hurting the teachers?He said nothing about firing the teachers. He plans on revamping the schools. End of story---which means the schools admin. I think your not getting the full gist of what's going on. Obama would never take away sports activities or recreational activities of any sorts for children. And I think that's a bit twisted to punish kids that way since some kids just need the extra tutoring to get their grades up.

[craigmatic]

37. I learned basically the samething in both settings and the year around schooling

didn't improve anything. It just changes the calendar. That's all. Several members of my immediate family were teachers. I'm in grad school now by the way for of all things education. The reason I said they should take away sports is because they let alot of these kids who play slide in their grades and administration leans on teachers to give them a passing score so the schools can bring in money at the games. Obama's plan for revamping the education system isn't going to work because many of the so called reformers don't believe in public education and are more inclined to blame the teachers and change the system in ways that would punish them when it's really the administration's fault.

[vaberella]

48. And as I said blame those who didn't advance your curriculum.

The whole point on an extended school year is to provide intensive learning. It's not like the kids don't get breaks. Actually in functional extended school years the kids don't even go to school like in regular hours. And personally for me, until all schools are air conditioned it's not even viable. And I went to a catholic school where there were no air conditioners.

Why are you punishing the students for the crimes of the teachers and administration when it comes to this sports thing. Don't you think that's a bit backwards. If the admin is pushing the teachers and the teachers are stupid and pathetic enough to throw out their principals and allow a child who's doing poorly in school to move ahead then that says a lot about these teachers and I'm all for mass firing on this count. And if it's something the admin holds against you, then you need to report it, as a threat. This is disgraceful---that you'd suggest then let's punish the kids.

Well in regards to Obama's reformers. If we're going by what you're saying in regards to the sports program---then hell yes the teachers are to blame. They are hugely to blame as a matter of fact and so is the admin. These teachers need to be reported. As for the public school system. It is failing. But this is indisputable and sadly a good number of it is the teachers. I know in NYC----our public school teachers are always in trouble. Getting high paychecks and little work. I don't see anything wrong with charter schools since in my area they are public. They do have special tests to entry which definitely is a problem, however, I think Obama can open ways to reform those as well. And he said he's taking some models that work to implement, so don't think charter schools are free from reformation.

[craigmatic]

65. I disagree

The whole point of an extended school year is to keep kids in the classroom just because. All that intensive learning talk is really pie in the sky. It's an idea that really hurts kids because if you think about it it's durning the summer when kids make up classes they did poorly in during the regular year. Summer school takes time away from that. How is keeping students who aren't meeting academic stands from playing sports punishing them? I look at it like this schools should be there for the sole purpose of educating our kids and everything else should be secondary. That's what I'd advocate if I was pushing reforms for failing schools the money spent on sports could be put to better use buying new books and computers. That's just my personal opinion you don't have to agree. There is no need for masss firings on that scale because 9 times out of 10 the teachers who don't do their jobs are fired or get sued and fired anyway. The public schools aren't failing. It's society that's failing. I got a theory about why. Since the 1970's people have had to work harder for less and parents are having less time to spend with their kids. This has made student achievement go down and is why there could be a problem if one exists. Too much emphasis is put on standardized testing without really thinking about what standardized testing means or who's taking the tests. Firstly they let even the students who have mental handicaps take tests which weigh down scores because they're required to have all kids who can take the test. Secondly they're gearing the curriculum to prepare these kids to take the test and skills like thinking critically and analyzing information is lost. The result is that our kids aren't learning to think. This goes along with why they're de-emphasizing subjects like history and English in favor of math and science. Another thing having to do with all this standardization is that you get certain schools that encourage teachers to teach the same lesson at the same time in the same way and you could go from room to room and they'd be on the same lesson. They've cut out individuality and the idea that different kids learn in different ways. Even Communist China has abandoned this way of teaching for the reason I just stated. It goes deeper. Since the early 1980's when reagan pushed his education department to publish a nation at risk they've politicized and overstated the "crisis" in our schools. The thing you have to know about education is that everything moves in cycles and concepts are recycled. What Duncan is pushing for now is really no different than what they were doing in the 80's. Alot of these statistics need to be examined through the prism of who's taking the test and the aganda of the powers that be.

[Go2Peace]

47. You forget to add political initiatives from Washington

We simply need to get back to science and proven methods.

To some extent our schools struggles also have to do with our society's priorities being off. Our country will go insane if we continue to groom children to be productivity machines.

[vaberella]

27. I strongly believe in year long education. I see nothing wrong with it.

So for that I'm with him 100%. Ever since I was a kid I wanted such a program installed in my school. I would have been a happy camper and I think most parents would be. As for the charter schools. I see what he means about the models they provide, so I see nothing wrong with this...although I don't understand why it is not provided for the public school that is already in affect.

[JCMach1]

33. We have two systems of Education in the U.S. separate and unequal...

What once was separated by race is now separated along socio-economic lines (with race still a big factor).

Devastated inner-cities with large minority populations simply don't have the resources needed to excel in every way.

Ditto for poor rural areas with a small tax base. Ross Perot of all people tried to end this issues in Texas almost 20yrs. ago now by completely re-vamping the Texas school funding system with what was then known as a Robin Hood Plan where funds from all the districts went into the state pot and then were distributed on a per capita basis to students. Needless to say, it got watered-down then and in subsequent years. Most states have never properly addressed these issues.

Most of the merit pay systems will only make these problems worse when the best teachers gravitate to positions where they have a chance to earn more money through the test-based system.

Any solution to education that doesn't address these fundamental problems of funding is doomed to fail.

[dkf]

45. Hawaii has a state wide funding system with no education funding through property taxes.

We spend $11,000 a child and we consistently rank around 48th out of 50 states.

Maybe it isn't all about funding.

[depakid]

66. Apparently the short length of the school year does have to do with funding

[depakid]

67. Apparently the short length of the school year does have to do with funding

[beforeyoureyes]

41. Nothing more then transferrance of wealth to private industry...

Gross and shameful.

Talk about spitting on public educators.

[DrDan]

43. what is particularly shameful is having this transfer defended by DUers

[speppin]

50. What makes it worse is that a Democrat is on the WH!--pushing this!

[dkf]

46. If we disallowed for profit companies from charter schools would you support them?

[ibegurpard]

55. i have no opinion on longer school year...I will oppose him on school privatization

till my dying breath.

[w4rma]

56. Very very unpopular position. And this position will only become more and more unpopular.

Obama is full of it on this.

[cyr330]

59. Bullshit Charter Schools--

How are they supposed to be the fucking "cure all" for our ailing schools? How in the fuck are they supposed to take all of our students? They are NOT an option other than for .000001% of all US students. Whoever's lame idea this is, they need to jettison it along with the rest of whatever misguided Repig ideas the Dems have adopted such as even considering tax breaks for billionaires.

[krawhitham]

60. This will not go over well

Schools all across the country are begging for votes to pass property tax levies. Most are getting shot down, so then the remove Bus support forcing the voters to vote for it the next cycle. How much more money will schools need to run year round?

Total levies around here are about $350 per 100,000 homes and they are asking for more in Nov.

[mix]

64. stop spending scads on the military then, invest in people nt

[LittleBlue]

70. How about not passing kids who don't learn a subject?

Kids nowadays are getting advanced in school without learning the subjects adequately. Not sure whether a standard test is needed, but something must be done to ensure kids are learning. Simply extending the time spent in a futile effort is pointless.

I guess that's too old school for modern teaching.

[ibegurpard]

71. k...let's get principals who will back up the teachers and hold the line

when the parents come in and bitch about their little darlings not getting the grades they "deserve."

[vaberella]

73. Or maybe blame should be put on the teacher or admin for passing them knowing they are failing.

Also, maybe the teacher should have taken the child aside and given him tutoring and/or requesting that the child be tutored. My school had that. They had an extra bus for students to take some extra classes in order to pass the class. It worked well it my Catholic school. We were all able to maintain a great grade point average and pass our classes. And many of us were not getting the extra help at home.