I read the Rolling Stone Obama interview and realize many have been unfair to Obama!

[KansasVoter]

Including me!! I'll admit I have been wrong at times.

I wanted much more and now realize that my expectations were way to high to get the change I wanted as fast as I wanted it.

And once again, the man is so damn smart. I cannot believe how well he interviews. And how much he knows about so many topics.

The points he made in the article really made sense to me. And I know now that he would rather get something passed with 80% of what he wanted instead of getting nothing passed that was 100% of what he wanted.

I need to analyze why some stuff isn't getting done and not react so emotionally to it.

The Rolling Stone article really opened my eyes!

[elleng]

1. Darn right!

Started reading it waiting for prescription at pharmacy, and thought, DUers REALLY should read this!!!

Here it is:

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/209395

[scheming daemons]

2. That's what many of us have been trying to tell you for 21 months.... I'm glad

you're finally are seeing the situation in a more realistic light.

[KansasVoter]

4. LOL....knew the "I told you so" person or two would show up!

[AtomicKitten]

3. Excellent. Thanks for posting this. nt

[LAGC]

5. It really was a good interview.

He definitely has a way with words, and is so informed on so many topics.

As much as I wish he'd fight harder for progressive priorities, and not be so quick to capitulate to conservatives, I realize we could definitely be doing much worse than having him at the helm.

[gateley]

6. Somebody said of Obama, he would rather get the ham sandwich instead of nothing if

he can't get the whole hog.

Makes sense. The world's longest journey...

[JDPriestly]

71. The interview was good except that he blames progressives for his problems.

That's simply misguided. Progressives have not hindered him. We did not vote against his policies. The Blue Dogs did. Yet Obama never utters a word that is critical of the Blue Dogs -- at least not in public.

The interview was great, but some of the things he said are inconsistent with reality. If he really wanted a public option, the authority to close Guantanamo (which I believe he has already), he should be scolding the Blue Dogs, not progressives.

So the interview is very nice -- but there is a disconnect with what Obama says in the interview and the reality of his actions and what he has and has not said over the past two years.

[whathehell]

82. Yup...and I'm frankly a little tired of hearing about how "smart" he's supposed to be

He IS smart, but so what?....Having a high I.Q. does not necessarily equate with "competence".

Being a successful democratic president in my opinion, is as much about about GUTS as intelligence.

[defendandprotect]

89. Correct ... W Bush one of our "dumbest" presidents allegedly ... got everything he wanted -- !!!

[whathehell]

91. Yes...It's like "yeah, we know your smart..So why not ACT smart"? n/t

[creon]

95. wasnt worth having though

I wonder if Bush will ever figure that out

[defendandprotect]

102. W. Bush speaks with "god" so guess neither one of them have figured it out yet -- !!!

[impik]

94. No, he doesn't. But why not play the victim, yet again? And BTW

i blame the so-called "progressives". They killed him from day one.

[gateley]

98. Seriously? I think he may actually feel hurt by the progressives (I can just imagine

the responses to this one, now). I think he feels he worked his ass off for HCR, really feels as though he accomplished something huge, yet we were so critical. That's just my psych 101 take on it, thought. I'm not sure he wants to risk alienating the Blue Dogs, although it's not like he has their unwavering support now. :eyes:

I think the disconnect is that he sees it from his viewpoint and we from ours. To us it's pretty much black and white, to him, he has to do all that juggling and giving and taking.

Gitmo, though, as well as DADT -- I just have don't have a clue why he hasn't done something! Although I do think he was met with unbelievable resistance about bringing the prisoners to the US.

[defendandprotect]

103. We know Obama made secret deals with Big Pharma and Daschle now says with

health care industry re public option!!

DADT is the product of a homophobic right wing Congress -- and it's shocking

that it hasn't been knocked out still at this point!!

We need to knock out the rest of the GOP homophobes in Congress ... and then

backtrack and deal with the Democrats!!

[LonePirate]

7. I wish we could get 80% of what he wanted. I'm not certain we even obtained 50%.

He spent too much time trying to obtain non-existent bipartisan support when he should have rammed his agenda through Congress. We all would have gotten a lot more than what we have now.

[Nancy Waterman]

8. Bipartisan support was necessary to get through the filibuster

I still think the key going forward is to get rid of the filibuster
or water it down considerably.

[ruggerson]

10. I disagree

the filibuster rules protect us when the other side has control.

[LAGC]

12. Yeah, but how often does our side use it?

Seems like Dubya had no problem getting 99% of his agenda rammed through the Senate.

Seems like only the RepubliCAN'Ts use it on a regular basis to obstruct just for the hell of it.

[ruggerson]

15. because we don't fight properly

we keep expecting them to behave like human beings. Over and over again.

[polmaven]

40. And would you please

explain your vision of how to "fight properly"? When you are dealing with people whose first and only agenda is to see the president fail, and will not allow cloture to happen, exactly what is it you would do to forward your agenda?

[no limit]

54. Reconciliation. You know, the thing they used to get the health bill passed

a health bill that they could have had a public option in but chose not to.

[treestar]

60. Because they are rotten people who abuse power?

It's like saying a criminal gets what he wants, so why don't we act like the criminal?

And probably from the same people who thing Bush and Cheney being tried is issue #1.

[Sheepshank]

100. so very true.

I can't for the life of me understand why there are those on the left that want the rest of the left to act more like those on the right? Some would sell their soul for a bowl of pottage, I suppose?

[defendandprotect]

104. Well ... yes and no -- right wing rises on political violence and we've had 50 years of it ...

out in the open -- and stolen elections --

However, Congress does have rules which Democrats have failed to use as the GOP

has used them --

In fact, when Dems have threatened filibusters, the GOP yelled so loudly that it

must have looked to the nation like the Dems had done something illegal!!

Remember, the "nuclear option"?

So, yes -- GOP are criminals --

but, no -- Dems don't have to fold every time GOP threatens a filibuster!!

Make them filibuster -- and use Congressional rules as GOP has used them!!

[ClassWarrior]

22. So it's an unfair rule no matter which side is in the majority. That makes it okay?

:crazy:

NGU.

[ruggerson]

23. What makes it "unfair"?

[ClassWarrior]

27. Really?? Are you really going to make me explain?

Maybe because it allows the minority to hijack the will of the majority?... :shrug:

:eyes:

NGU.

[ruggerson]

30. I would agree with you

if it were applied unequally, but it isn't. The rule exists when either party is in the majority.

Amending the Constitution takes a 2/3rds majority of both houses. That also means a minority can stop passage. Is that unfair too?

[lark]

62. drinking the kool-aid

There never was a filibuster, just didn't pass muster with more than 60 votes. Dems have no spines, never make Repugs actually filibuster, never make Dems actually stand for their beliefs. Repugs played hardball, held votes open until 2pm, etc. If Dems played by the same procedural rules, they would win much more of what we want - but they are too busy trying to play footsie with the fat cats so pretend they have no choice but to roll over.

Obama is the same person who has let BP lie to the world about the oil and who allowed the cover up to continue to this day and is putting the lives and health of everyone who lives in the Gulf in danger due to his fear of the truth getting out. Sorry, I'm not getting over that. Expecting the truth about a man made environmental disaster is not asking for too much, it's the absolute minimum we should expect. Again, nice words, no action. There's a pattern.

[elana i am]

16. IF there had been any possibility of ramming it through

i imagine he would have.

i think the focus on bipartisanship was not as much as you might think, unless you consider it being bipartisan within his own party. the biggest roadblock to progress was never the repugs. it was a small faction of blue dogs and lieberschmuck.

the truth of the matter is that obama wasn't just fighting the minority party. he was fighting an even tinier faction of his own party in the senate that held all the power. baucus, lincoln, pryor, bayh, ben nelson and occasionally landrieu & lieberschmuck threw roadblocks up in front of pretty much everything obama tried to accomplish in an effort to weed out the more progressive legislation.

we needed every dem senator plus lieberschmuck to get things done. that gave this small little faction of blue dogs ALL the power. i'm not sure what people expected obama to do when the blue dogs had all the leverage.

we progressives are extremely lucky to have gotten any progress at all. it blows my mind how many people, especially the ones complaining at the moment, completely missed this.

[elleng]

49. Right, and there is no 'ramming thru,' NO WAY, congress is not a physical wall.

Lawrence O'Donnell described the process well last night. Compromise is an essential element, without which NOTHING is accomplished. Nay-sayers don't recognize the dramatic difference between NOTHING and SOMETHINGS, and this admin has accomplished MANY somethings.

[defendandprotect]

90. How did W Bush "ram" things thru with only 51 Senate votes?

[DefenseLawyer]

9. I agree... but...

Their healthcare "reform" was nowhere close to 80% of what I wanted. DADT, military tribunals, Gitmo and the escalated war in Afghanistan are all 0% of what I wanted. Those are not pragmatic compromises, those are just complete cave ins to the right. I'm as pragmatic as anyone, but they had the kind of majorities that could have gotten plenty more done. Their Republican counterparts never had those kind of majorities yet they gave us Alito and Roberts and the war and the Bush tax cuts and the prescription drug sham and etc etc etc. Much to my surprise, when I opened my eyes, I was a victim of the Great Compromise.

[KansasVoter]

11. Is trying and failing better than trying and falling short? Honest question.

[Tunkamerica]

13. in some things for some people...

[DefenseLawyer]

14. It's a matter of degree

Getting 80% of what you want is of course far better than nothing at all. My point is they haven't come close to achieving 80% of the agenda most Democrats want. If it really was 80%, instead of like 25% in reality, no one except cranks would be complaining.

[KansasVoter]

18. Maybe true!

[boppers]

37. A lot of truth in what you said.

Let me perform a minor edit:
"If it really was 80%.... no one except cranks would be complaining."

Fixed it.

[uponit7771]

46. What about 80% of what they can GET vs what people want? If I only have 2 gallons of gas...

...I don't expect to go more than 50 miles

[treestar]

59. No one except cranks are complaining

There's a legislative process. "Getting what we want" is never going to happen. Doesn't happen for Republicans either, in fact, if you listen to them, they get very little of what they want. Yet they still soldier on.

[JuniperLea]

109. How about waiting for 80% of his term to be used....

Before expecting 80% of the work to be done?

[MadMaddie]

29. Well you would have to analyze the cost of the failure

How many more people would die because they couldn't get coverage for pre-existing conditions?

How many more would be kicked off of their insurance for bullshit reasons?


So my answer to you is the accomplishment may not be as grand but it can be built upon. You need a foundation to build upon.

[treestar]

58. Afghanistan is not a complete cave n to the right

When it's what he said he'd do. Disagree with it, but don't say it's unfair to call it a cave in to the right.

[DefenseLawyer]

77. That's a fair point n/t

[progressoid]

17. Too bad only a tiny fraction of America will read that interview

[patrice]

19. I read it too. Think "Process" with this guy.

[Pirate Smile]

20. Thank you for reading it and publicly acknowledging that it made you rethink your

previous reactions to some things. :toast:

I think people are too quick to assign negative or nefarious motives to things the Obama Administration does. I don't think he deserve that from fellow Democrats and usually there is a logical reason for what he does although it may not be obvious at the time.

[KansasVoter]

31. Thanks!

[Pirate Smile]

21. Here is a link to the full article if anyone hasn't read it yet.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/209395

[ZM90]

24. I spoke on the subject of how hard it has to be to be a leader from my experience as a leader

Even if people don't agree with what I was leading,ect please read it because I'm sure it's not easy for Obama either. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9254477

[Lindsey]

26. I've heard it's great. I'll read it as soon as I get a chance. n/t

[cliffordu]

25. I WON'T say I told you so

neener neener neener.

[MindandSoul]

28. I'm glad! Now, tell others and go vote!

[KansasVoter]

32. I was always going to vote Dem and Obama....

Just disappointed in some areas!

[MindandSoul]

106. Well, I think we were all so hopeful. . .we forgot that he wasn't a magician!

We expected too much, too soon.
But I am still SOOOO glad that we don't have McCain/Palin in the White House. . .and I sure don't want more Republicans in Congress to slow the progress even further!

[WeekendWarrior]

33. I've been saying that for two years. Glad you've come around. nt

[K8-EEE]

34. I'm happy to hear it n/t

[tavalon]

35. oh, I agree he's super smart

He just doesn't do the bully pulpit well and that's why his popularity is in question. If he sang every accomplishment from the highest mountain or at least the rose garden, we'd be less likely to believe he's phoning it in.

[treestar]

64. No, you'd be saying he was vain and a braggart

[tavalon]

66. A fellow Leo?

I think not.

[bobburgster]

69. His popularity is higher than.....

Reagans and Clintons at the 2 year mark.

[ProgressOnTheMove]

36. Exactly he's taken a lot of heat because of the residue pain and cyncism Bush left behind. Time to..

give a good President at least a chance. Two years is no time at all, if people fought 8 years to get here we can at least push 8 years to get our way back.

[cherokeeprogressive]

38. Awww, we've been unfair to a man who makes $400,000 dollars a year, has hundreds of protectors,

knows perks NONE of us will ever see, and is considered to be "The Leader of the Free World".

Dog DAMN I feel so guilty for criticizing him. What WAS I thinking?

Gee, I'm going to have to re-analyze my feelings where the President of the United States is concerned. How could I have EVER been so unfair?

He's handsome, he's smart, and dog-gonnit, we SHOULD like him. Just because...

I'm told here nearly EVERY DAY that he's trying to fix something that took decades to fuck up, and should be patient because it'll take decades to FIX. Okay, here's my response to that... He's presiding over a government that shows me no allegience whatsoever and that took decades to get to that point; Why should less than two years of governance by the Obama Administration restore my confidence in government?

[Kahuna]

39. K&R!

:applause:

[Kahuna]

72. Oy! I meant to K&R the OP.. Certainly not the post above me..

:scared:

[Number23]

78. Gurl, I was wondering what was going when I saw you high five that foolishness!

:rofl:
:hug:

[phleshdef]

41. Right because Presidential salary and the reality of assassination has anything to do...

...with the task of getting policies pushed and passed through a near unwilling Senate.

[cherokeeprogressive]

43. If

he spends his days contemplating assassination, then he shouldn't have run for the office. I'd say the same about anyone.

"a near unwilling Senate" passed HCR.

[phleshdef]

47. You were the one bitching about "hundreds of protectors".

Its like because the President draws a big paycheck and has necessary security detail, thats somehow a reason to cast aside any empathy one may have for the shit he has to put up with... that somehow, we should disregard his side of the story on these issues.

Yes, near unwilling, you do understand what the word "near" means, right?

[treestar]

63. Disregarding his side of the story is the hallmark of the left

No more reasonable than teabaggers when it comes to listening to both sides.

Yet they are the first to demand that they be listened to - and obeyed.

[Hello_Kitty]

105. "the left"

Careful, treestar, you tipped your hand a bit there.

[DevonRex]

48. Most of your post just sounds envious. The rest shows you didn't read the RS article.

If you did, you simply didn't understand the points made.

[CBR]

52. I wouldn't take that job for $400,000... I could make that much

running a nonprofit. I do not treat people like shit just because they have shit I will not have.

[treestar]

61. You're making it rather personal

Your last paragraph is a stunning display of unreasonableness, too.

You're jealous of whoever is President and never going to support anyone in any position of authority.

There's no reason to feel sorry for President Obama but there is good reason to support him and the Democrats.

You're just saying you hate everybody.

[BeyondGeography]

65. Your last statement basically says you're impossible to please

Might as well state that upfront and not waste y/our time.

[Whisp]

67. you sound like a nasty person all around.

good thing you are picking on Obama as he can take it, hope your friends and family don't have to suffer you.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

70. $400,000 is not worth the risks and effects of that job.

And you're being a drama queen for no reason at all.

[vaberella]

76. You've just made all your future posts irrelevant. Good job.

400K is minuscule to what he has to deal with. I wonder how you'd handle pirates taking a captain. Hundreds to thousands of your soldiers dieing, a shitty economy and people threatening grand scale war. Not to mention the possibility because you're Black and President---not to mention the same threat placed on your children. You're a clown for your statements. Whatever! You're post is childish and silly.

[pnwmom]

84. When we're unfair to him we're shooting ourselves in the foot.

Because anything we do to unfairly lower support for him just helps the Rethugs and increases the chance that the country will move even further to the right.

[Imagevision]

42. Tea party baggers & GOPers expect Obama to right Bush's 8 years of wrongs in 2 years, how lame!!!

[bigwillq]

44. K and R

for your honesty. Good post. :thumbsup:

[The Uncola]

45. Ok, I'll endever to ...

.. not take it so personally and emotionally when they foreclose on our home and we're left on the streets because he's "willing to settle" for crappy, watered down, do-very-little legislation. Thanks a heap.

[BrklynLiberal]

50. I think you will appreciate these interviews...

Green and Schaeffer say exactly what you said...expecially Schaeffer.

http://archive.wbai.org/
click PLAY for:
Daily Briefing
Tuesday October 5 9:00am 1 hour
News

[Pirate Smile]

53. That was good. I listened to the one you noted with Adam & Frank. Thanks.

[zipplewrath]

51. Which implies that everything is equal

All aspects of the 80% are not equal priorities. And then there are the things you DIDN'T want. What are you willing to do to suffer those?

It's called throwing the baby out with the bath water. Your intent was to clean the tub, and you did, but the baby is gone. You accomplished 100% of your goal. Was the price worth it?

[NJmaverick]

55. K & R!

:patriot:

[Whisp]

56. that is SUCH a good read. thanks for pointing it out

somehow I missed it

[Beartracks]

57. Thanks. K&R. I'd heard about this interview...

... now finally had a chance to read it.

Even though someone un-recced the thread while I was reading the article. :eyes:

I can only think that people unreccing something like this are the chip-on-the-shoulder types whose pet issues haven't yet been addressed to their personal satisfaction.

Personally, I'm still holding out for Medicare for all -- a true health care reform. But from what I've read about what we DID get in the legislation this year, it sounds like some good change. I still think doing it RIGHT would involve a complete overhaul of the system, so I can't really say the legislation is necessarily a start in that direction. But any chance at such continued change depends on having Dems (or more to the point, progressive Dems) in Congress.

Anyhow, I'm already voting for Dems this mid-term year, simply because it's the right thing to do. I certainly hope every one of us keeps voting with that long-term view.

[bobburgster]

68. Thanks for your OP!

It is something I have been trying to talk about for a long time. I hope it doesn't fall on deaf ears.

[vaberella]

73. You figure this out now?!

The reality and what you know are too different things.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vaberella]

101. And you revert to name calling. ~sigh~

[grahamhgreen]

74. No comment til after the election. nt

[Viva_La_Revolution]

75. I thought the same thing after reading some excerpts of Woodward's new book. nt

[indimuse]

79. KNR! n/t

[Voice for Peace]

80. thanks for the reminder to read it! nt

[AzDar]

81. I'm still so very proud that he's the Prez .

(even if he cheeses me off on occasion)
:patriot:

[MrScorpio]

85. Damn Skippy!

Interesting, isn't it, when you get a perspective from the man himself, rather than from others who may have a bone to pick with him for whatever reason?

[butterfly77]

86. Were you watching him throughout..

the campaign? I did and he wasn't my first choice, I began to watch him very closely as I always do with candidates.

Obama had to go through the most rigorous,detailed investigation by every damn organization and media outlet in the country and he met with them all and answered all of their asinine questions.

Then came PissypantsPalin, who ran all over the country calling Obama a muslim,terrorist and a NONAMERICAN.

Pissy then began blaming the media just because they asked her what newspapers or magazines did she read,and the media tried to compare pissy to Obama

After he became the President I have watched some of the bulls**t he has had to put up with no matter how much some try to say its the same as Clinton it is not.

The CONS try to pretend as though he hasn't led anything.

If he was a community organizer didn't he lead someone,when he was President of the LAW REVIEW didn't he lead someone,when he was a professor didn't he lead and guide someone.

I believe that a lot of people have just begun to finally look at President Obama..

Or never knew anything about him they were so angry that he won that they listened so they never heard anything,some will never get over it that is why they will believe the lies before they will believe the truth and some will never get over the fact that their candidate loss and some are just TROLLS...

[Major Hogwash]

87. "Oh, this isn't Argumentum Ad Nauseum, sir. That would be Room 302, down the hall."

"I didn't mean to argue with you so much."
"Yes, you did."
"No, I didn't."
"Yes, you did!"
"No, I didn't."
"You're doing it again!"
"No I'm not."
"Yes you are."
"No, you're doing it, I'm not."
"Yes, you are, I'm not doing it."
"Yes you are."
"No, I'm not!"

"Times up."
"No it's not."

[defendandprotect]

88. Well, Bush got everything he wanted accomplished ... does that mean he's smarter than Obama???

And Bush did it with 51 Senators -- !!!

[Imagevision]

107. Bush did everything he was instructed to do, so he did his part end of story!

[BREMPRO]

92. glad to hear-under the circumstances and political climate i think he's doing a great job

The sensationalized "media" from the right AND left and many here on DU have not treated him fairly. I hope more people read this article and get a perspective on his character, political skill, and unheralded accomplishments.

[creon]

97. I agree

These are not ordinary times. These are "interesting" times.
We had eight years of a failed presidency; two wars, neither one of which are "won"; a recession, the worst in memory. And no one has good solutions to any of that. And, are the two most serious problems.

Many are afraid and angry, with good reason. "Un fair" does not apply here.

Yes, he is smart; yes he is sensible; yes he is lawyerly. No, he does not have a magic wand.


Times are hard. It will be years before times improve. And, patience is not a virtue.

[impik]

93. Well done. I wish there were more like you

[creon]

96. comes with the territory

A president will, most of the time, be treated "unfairly" by his putative allies. Obama is not an exception.
"Fair" and "deserve" has nothing to do with it. It has to do with politicians doing what people want them to do. That will not, and cannot happen. Thus, inevitable disappointment.

[Sheepshank]

99. Sometimes kids will not hear the words from their parents

...but will mind the same words coming from a stranger.

Or something like that.

And then the kids grow up a little and begin to see the world a little more from their parents perspective and have to decide.... to want to admit they've learned something, or want to continue to pretend that they were right all along and keep wallowing.

You sir, made a grown up choice :)

[JamesA1102]

108. K&R! nt