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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:12 AM
Original message
"we may be headed for one of the greatest civilian-military showdowns in decades" - a knife fight
Obama's War With the Pentagon

The clash between the White House and the military brass over the Afghan war will grow more intense under the new national security adviser. Peter Beinart on the knife fight ahead.

James Jones is out as national security advisor; Tom Donilon is in. What does it mean? Among other things, that we may be headed for one of the greatest civilian-military showdowns in decades.




If you haven’t read Bob Woodward or Jonathan Alter’s accounts of Obama administration Afghan policy, here are the CliffsNotes: Since the moment Obama took office, the military, led by David Petraeus, has been pushing for a full-on counterinsurgency effort. In other words, a lot of troops for a very long time. Obama, from the start, has resisted, raising awkward questions about why we’re expending massive amounts of blood and treasure in Afghanistan when Pakistan is the country that really matters. Vice President Biden has gone further, warning that given the mind-boggling corruption of Hamid Karzai’s regime, committing to an Afghan counterinsurgency war would be lunacy.
This policy struggle has not been waged according to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. The White House believes the military brass is blind to America’s crushing financial constraints and the public’s eroding support for the war. The military believes the White House cares more about domestic politics than national security. The White House believes the military keeps screwing the president by telling reporters and Republicans that we need more troops for a longer time, thus forcing Obama’s hand.

-snip-
From the military’s perspective, Donilon is worse than a mere civilian; he’s a politico. He was a party operative before he was a foreign policy wonk, which is one reason he worked so well with Rahm Emanuel, the man who pushed Jones to hire him as his deputy. At the White House, Donilon’s political savvy was considered an asset. But within the military, his prominence was seen as evidence that the White House subordinated national security to crass political concerns. Throughout Woodward’s book, Obama’s Wars, Donilon makes cameos as the guy who screams at generals for trying to trick or push Obama into a deeper commitment to Afghanistan than he wants to make. Less than a month after Obama took office, according to Woodward, Donilon berated military leaders for pushing for an increased troop commitment without having solid numbers on how many they really needed. That fall, after Stanley McChrystal told a London audience that anything but a full-blown counterinsurgency strategy would be a disaster, Donilon flayed members of the military brass once again, further alienating his counterparts at the Pentagon. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, according to Woodward, warned against making Donilon NSC advisor. Jones told Donilon that “you have no credibility with the military” and warned him to stop mouthing off to generals about topics he knew little about.

Now that he’s NSC advisor, Donilon will surely try to mend fences. But his conflicts with the military aren’t simply about good manners. And they are not merely a product of the culture clash between liberal civilians and military types that typically plagues Democratic administrations. They have their roots in a profound disagreement over policy. Donilon, after all, is a Biden guy. He worked on Biden’s 1988 presidential campaign, worked for him in the Senate, and then worked on his 2008 campaign. His wife is Jill Biden’s chief of staff. Biden is the administration figure most determined to limit the Afghan war and the figure who most prides himself on not being intimidated by generals. And there is evidence that Donilon shares his views. At one point in Obama’s “AfPak” review, according to Woodward, Donilon bolstered Biden’s contention that the Taliban, as opposed to Al Qaeda, poses no real threat to the United States. According to Politico, Donilon has been a strong defender of the summer 2011 deadline for beginning to withdraw U.S. troops that Obama laid out when he announced the Afghan surge.

-snip-
The conventional wisdom is that Obama chose Donilon because he’s already the guy who makes the trains run on time. But it’s also possible that he chose him because Obama knows that he is headed for a bureaucratic knife fight over Afghanistan, and in that internal struggle, he no longer wants someone like Jones who plays both sides. Instead, he wants someone who will help him wind down America’s Afghan adventure, no matter how hard he has to fight Petraeus and company to do it. If that’s true, promoting Donilon may be the most important foreign policy pick Obama has yet made. Because unless Obama begins to extricate the U.S. from the Afghan war next year, it will swallow his foreign policy, and perhaps his presidency itself.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/blogs-and-stories/2010-10-10/tom-donilon-and-obamas-war-with-the-pentagon/
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
1. the military is interested in its own financial security, war is just a means to ensure it nt
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. The Pentagon/Military Industrial Complex cannot permit peace. They need war to survive.
The Pentagon/MIC needs conflict to justify their existence, and as President Eisenhower warned, they will instigate conflict where there is none. The Pentagon/MIC will bleed this country and its people dry. They are parasitical and will continue draining national funds, resources and our children's lives to keep their coffers brimming with blood-soaked gold. There will NEVER be peace on Earth as long as the American Military Industrial Complex is allowed to run rampant. And don't look to Congress to reign them in. Congress is so far on the take, most members of Congress should be classified as Pentagon employees.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
2. Donilon sounds like the right guy to me.
The military doesn't make the rules, they're just supposed to carry them out.
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. People were bashing Donilon because, well, he's an asshole. But he's our asshole.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 08:30 AM by backscatter712
It looks like we need an asshole in that position right now. Somebody who knows how to make things difficult for the military, and force them to acknowledge that the public won't tolerate ten more years of war.
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PopSixSquish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. And Interesting that According to the Article Rahm Pushed for Him to be Hired
I guess one asshole knows where another asshole might be needed...
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Teaser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Rahm's major problem is he is focused on effectiveness
He had no real principles, and people who bash him for being anti-progressive don't get Rahm. He just doesn't believe full on progressivism is a winning strategy. I think he's mostly wrong on that count, most of the time. But really, all Rahm cares about is winning.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. All Rahm cares about is winning
Cannot be stated enough. Hence the reason I called him our turdblossom. He has a lot in common with Rove. He may be our sociopath but a sociopath is a sociopath and the terms yours and ours mean little to such creatures.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
3. I posted this on 10.9.10:
The Beginnings Of A Revolution? Or Something Worse?

These three articles talk about the officers and officer corps questioning civil authority.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Thanks you for that.
:hi:
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
4. THAT'S NOT THE CHANGE I VOTED FOR!!!!
oh wait
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ThomCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. The change we voted for would be to get us all out of
Afghanistan a year ago. We have no reason to be there. We aren't accomplishing anything by being there.

The only reason we are there is because the military wants to justify their existence by always having a huge war, and energy companies want to us in there taking over the country if possible (it's not) so that they can own the natural resources.

We are still in Afghanistan because Obama hasn't been able to get the Military to shut up and sit down, and because he believed he would look weak if he left too soon.

So we waste $trillions we don't have and can't afford, thousands more people die, and tens of thousands more people get hurt.

Is that really what we voted for?

I would still rather have seen us leave a year ago.
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mopinko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. i knew full well what he was up against. on paper he is cic
but that doesn't mean shit to the generals. they think themselves quite apart from the rest of the government, and their idea of the proper role of cic is to point to a country to invade and get the hell out of the way.
i voted for someone who would stand up to them, but not for a minute did i think it would be easy or quick.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Doing that given the total dominannce of imperiall bullying as foreign policy--
--is a lot like trying to turn a battleship around with an outboard motor. At least Obama is trying to push back.
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tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Ha!
It is too! And the change I also voted for. I haven't gotten the fire on the mountain I had hoped for but Obama is highly savvy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. The winds of change are blowing in the Obama White House.
This, plus some other rather encouraging moves, lend hope that he's giving up on his bipartisan fantasies and starting to "welcome their hatred."

The most important question is whether this sea change is just in time or just a little too late. I have profound fears that apathy will overwhelm the Democratic vote next month.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Apathy? GOTV.
After hearing the Obama administration torn down for nearly 2 years it's time to quit with the bs and let the people know how much has been done. That's our job.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. It's a serious concern. GOTV is difficult work, and haranguing people into voting doesn't cut it.
GOTV is not about managing perception, it's about demonstrating the reality that people can agree with and join in on.

Anybody who's been door to door season after season knows this.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
13. kick
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
17. The President is the commander-in-chief - the head of the military
What are they going to do, openly defy him?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Retire or resign or something like that to make Obama look bad.
He has already fired two Generals. If they give him a hard time, he should just do it.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 09:20 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. They've been doing that ever since the end of WW II
Why should Obama be treated any differently?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. The "greatest civilian military showdown" of the article belies this
That is, unless you disagree with the article, one can't just dismiss it as what has happened to past presidents; the article is trying to claim this is going to be a big battle.
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
18. Donilon sounds like the kind of guy we need. Things sound like they're getting very interesting. nt
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vaberella Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. Good stuff. n/t
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 08:33 PM
Response to Original message
21. kick
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ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
24. CHANGE = Liberal President Obama picks liberal NSC replacement to help him fight neocon Pentagon.
Edited on Mon Oct-11-10 10:08 PM by ClarkUSA
I am so glad this man became our CIC. No warmongering Republican-lite DLC Presidents now or in 2016.

Bookmarked for future use:

Obama's War With the Pentagon
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=472574&mesg_id=472574

Thanks for a fine read, Pirate Smile. :thumbsup:



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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-11-10 10:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thanks
:hi:
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Hawkowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. I expect a new SecDef after the elections
The OP's article only holds water if Obama is going to dump Gates for a partisan Democrat. I'd like to see him bring in former general Wesley Clark.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-12-10 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
30. imo it's a necessary showdown. Bottom line: There's ONE Commander in Chief...
Thanks for the helpful post.
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