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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:43 AM
Original message
Poll: Dem attack on secret money is resonating

Poll: Dem attack on secret money is resonating

As promised, MSNBC's First Read gang releases its NBC/WSJ polling showing that voters do care about the secret cash funding attack ads, despite all the assertions you keep hearing to the contrary:

So how has the White House/Democratic campaign against the GOP-leaning outside groups that have been spending so much on TV ads this midterm cycle fared? Per our poll, 74% say it's a concern that outside groups have their own agenda and care only about electing or defeating candidates based on their own issues; 72% say it's a concern that these groups don't have to disclose who's contributing to them; 71% say it's a concern that the candidates who are helped by these groups could be beholden to their interests; and 68% say they're concerned these groups are funded by unions or large corporations.

First Read's Mark Murray ads this caveat: "Despite these concerns, our pollsters say that the White House/Dem campaign against these outside groups hasn't changed the overall dynamics of this election."

And yet he notes that it seems clear that the Dem campaign may have shifted underlying attitudes:

That said, there has been this shift in our poll: 45% of registered voters say Democrats in Congress are more concerned about the interests of average Americas, versus 41% who think they're more concerned about large corporations. That's a change from May when 52% thought congressional Dems were more concerned about large corporations and 35% said they were more concerned about average Americans. By comparison, 68% in our current poll say Republicans in Congress are more concerned about large corporations, which is essentially unchanged from May. And 53% say President Obama is more concerned about the interests of average Americans, versus 31% who think he's more concerned about large corporations.

Again: No one ever expected this attack line to produce an immediate and dramatic turnaround in Dem fortunes. And it very well may be that the above shifts in public attitudes aren't enough to substantially limit Dem losses in an environment where the economy trumps all.

But every little bit helps, and it's very clear that the Dem attacks on secret money are resonating to some degree. Large majorities say they're concerned about the secret cash and worry that candidates benefiting from the ads will be beholden to the special interests spending it. And larger numbers now say Dems are more interested in looking out for the interests of average Americans, while a big majority says Republicans are more concerned about corporations. Separately, as I noted yesterday, this campaign against the secret cash very likely helped fuel Dem fundraising.

Put it this way: If we can't cite the above polling as a clear sign that Dems are right to be pursuing this line, I'm not sure there's anything we could ever cite that people would accept as evidence supporting that notion.

This should bolster the calls for transparency.






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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. K&R...hearing more and more talking about this.....
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Kdillard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
2. Only the people who have a vested interest in keeping this quiet
would think it was a bad line of attack.
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. I heard the details of the poll on Countdown last night. Not surprisingly, Chuck Todd this morning
ignored it, preferring to talk about how president Obama was trying to get women's vote (though the numbers he was showing showed he already had them, but he was once again talking about the enthusiasm gap).
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Yesterday, Chuck Todd said Obama's approval # (47%) is "artificially high" because of
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:03 AM by Pirate Smile
African-Americans.

Instead, he wanted to just focus on Obama's approval numbers with "white people" or, my personal fav, "white working people". Those numbers aren't as good so we should focus on those numbers.

I had enough of this bullshit to last a lifetime during the friggin primaries. That we have to go back to hearing this sh#$ again is infuriating.

Let's hope they spend lots more time talking about Obama and "Appalachian Whites" - just because I still have some hair on my head and I think their goal is to make sure I pull absolutely all of it out during Obama's eight years (yeah, it'll be 8) in office.

Next Question - WHY can't Obama win over southern, white, conservatives? What should he do? arrgghhhh!


edit to add - sorry, I went off on a tangent there. I guess it annoys me just a bit. :)
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:07 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Chuck Todd is a complete tool.
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:07 AM by ProSense
Republicans' approval numbers are artificially high because of morons and racists.

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. LOL. Can I tweet that at Chuck?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Absolutely. LOL! n/t
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Cosmocat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #4
20. as it should ...
just sad, completely sad, displays of republican party stupidity being parroted by them there evil liberal media types ...
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whathehell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. K & R. n/t
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. The way the GOP and media screamed bloody murder about it
meant that it was a good strategy and they were scared.

Polls have tightened nearly everywhere since

1) Obama got on the stump
2) Debate season kicked in and the GOP's had to show their ass to the public
3) The reality of the impending election cleared away summer doldrums

AND

4) the secret money ads came out

Now, there's the danger of post hoc ergo propter hoc reasoning here, but I think we know those ads resonate.
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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
10. There's a missing question in that poll... and it makes all the difference.
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:21 AM by FBaggins
You assume that the poll refers to current events re: claims that republicans are benefiting from overseas funds. None of what you've posted here backs that up.

The question is "who do you think is the beneficiary of all that money?"

"outside groups with their own agenda" could easily be read as influencing either/both parties.

For instance - "and 68% say they're concerned these groups are funded by unions or large corporations." pretty clearly implies a pox on both of our houses... not a specific dissatisfaction with corporate funding.

This should bolster the calls for transparency.

And there you are of course correct. And does anyone think that a new Republican majority will advance such legislation?

Unfortunately... it's too late for any such calls to impact this election.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. It makes no difference. Here's why
Democrats are the ones calling out secret money. Republicans are the ones fighting against transparency.

It also doesn't matter that the public is unaware that unions are required to disclose because the Chamber of Commerce, not the unions, is the group fighting against the DISCLOSE act.

The point is that Democrats raised public awareness of secret donations.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Can you document that?
This isn't a new question. Can you show how this poll compares to prior years' polling?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. "Can you show how this poll compares to prior years' polling?"
Is this relevant? The public has a short memory, and they are not responding to this poll wondering how it compares to prior years.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yes, it's relevant.
If you want to claim that public perception of the issue is shifting due to Democrats highlighting CoC funding of advertising... it would be nice to demonstrate that perception had actually shifted.

A great deal of polling was done in the wake of the Citizens United ruling and in pushing for DISCLOSE. Does or does not this poll represent ANY shift in public opinion?

If not... then we can't say that democrats should shift their campaign focus to this issue in the final ten days of the campaign.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. No it isn't, only to you.
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:37 AM by ProSense
You are the one asking the question.

You presume that it matters whether or not they supported transparency a year ago or a month ago.

It doesn't, all that matters is that they care and they support disclosure.


edited for clarity.

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FBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Nope. That's "all that matters" re: support for DISCLOSE.
But your OP said that it was evidence that "Dem attack on secret money is resonating"

It may or may not be resonating... but this poll is not evidence that it is (or that it isn't).
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. "It may or may not be resonating"
Edited on Thu Oct-21-10 10:54 AM by ProSense
And no one cares about last month's polling.

The fact is that the support for transparency is high and current.

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Another thing
There may very well be a huge scandal unfolding. If this turns out to be bigger than Watergate, as some are predicting, then it's good that public opinion is already on the side of disclosure.

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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:19 AM
Response to Original message
11. How About That - You Mean The Warnings From The Right
saying the Dems best take a step back and back off the COC or pay a price is WRONG?

Oh my!
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otohara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:27 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Joey Scarborough Said It Was "Stupidest Strategies"
This is the stupidest part of this strategy by the White House. We don't use words like "stupid" much but I will say, this is one of the stupidest strategies I have ever seen in my life from any White House, attacking the Chamber of Commerce, stick with me, when there's 15% real unemployment, when outside of Washington D.C., people see the Chamber of Commerce as the one institution that has one purpose, and that's to bring jobs to Pensacola. That's to bring jobs to Omaha, that's to bring jobs to Lansing, Michigan, to upstate New York. They are attacking the chamber. It's an unwinnable argument, for a President who is seen as anti-business, attacking the Chamber is a dumb, dumb move.

Replies Buchanan:

It is, Joe. These are seen as moderate business guys in the communities, immersed in their communities. Chamber of Commerce is seen as a very very positive force. Secondly, it has hurt something invaluable to Obama -- that is his credibility in the sense that he is above politics in a way, as president and he doesn't deal, if you will in mendacity. There is nothing behind this to prove the Chamber of Commerce is funneling foreign money into campaigns. I think it's hurting credibility of the President of the United States, which ultimately is his greatest asset.http://www.chamberpost.com/
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. Said the media sock puppet on que from his masters...
What a tool.
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winstars Donating Member (405 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. I may be simple but...

If the Ladykiller is against it, I am for it!!! And as to Uncle Pat, to quote Al in "Scent of a Woman" WELL FUCK YOU TOO!!!
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. Want to know this...no body will care on the other side
the republicans will just ignore it and be glad that they are getting all that illegal money. And the Democrats are helpless to stop it. I think Democrats also know what is happening.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
24. Good. I started pimping this the minute I heard about it
I already hated the Chamber with a passion, so it didn't take much encouragement.
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Dawson Leery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. When the media screams about something the Democrats did, it
is because they did something that will hurt the GOP. Jack Conway knew very well what he was doing. We may not like the ad, though it will be highly effective in Kentucky. Keep your foot on the accelerator Dems!
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-21-10 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
27. I have to admit - I'm a little surprised by this.
I really thought all of this would be mostly wasted effort, and that largely only the folks who have their minds made up would care about this stuff. Good to be wrong in the right way once in a while.
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