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Quinnipiac Poll: Bad news for HCR, Obama, Democrats (Kittens holding up okay)

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 10:33 AM
Original message
Quinnipiac Poll: Bad news for HCR, Obama, Democrats (Kittens holding up okay)
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:02 AM by Kurt_and_Hunter
Sorry. I lied about the kittens. I just wanted some feeble trace of positivity in the headline.



The American people don't seem enthused about any of our HCR efforts, with the ironic exception of the public option. A few good things will kick in right away but the overall system won't change much for years, people are skeptical in the first place and industry will spend millions or billions defining a program years before it kicks in. Since electing some Republicans will provide a pug/blue-dog governing coalition expect big campaign $$$ to flow to House pugs. This is all a non-trivial political challenge.

I support passing pretty much whatever we can pass because 1) it will help some people and people are suffering enough on all fronts and 2) if we are going to get creamed in 2010 we might as well get creamed for something, rather than nothing. But the conventional wisdom assumption that Obama's and Democrat's numbers will rebound as a result--beyond a short-term news coverage blip--is not a certainty. (Passing something may stop or slow the ongoing slide in our numbers, which is better than a stick in the eye. But we may not see a reversal of trend.)

Discuss.

(This is a press release so the 4 paragraph rule doesn't apply. But there is more text and data at the link.)



December 9, 2009
Obama Approval Falls To New Low, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds; U.S. Voters Oppose Health Care Plan By Wide Margin

American voters give President Barack Obama a split 46 - 44 percent job approval, his lowest ever, and both the health care reform package that he wants Congress to pass and his personal rating on handling health care now win support from less than four in 10 Americans, according to a Quinnipiac University poll released today.


Voters disapprove 52 - 38 percent of the health care reform proposal under consideration in Congress, and they disapprove 56 - 38 percent of President Obama's handling of health care, down from 53 - 41 percent in a November 19 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh- pe-ack) University.


But voters support 56 - 38 percent giving people the option of being covered by a government health insurance plan, compared to 57 - 35 percent November 19.


American voters trust Obama more than Republicans in Congress to handle health care 44 - 37 percent, down from 45 - 36 percent three weeks ago. Voters disapprove 58 - 30 percent of the way Republicans in Congress are doing their job, and disapprove 56 - 33 percent of Democrats in Congress.


American voters say 63 - 30 percent that extending health insurance to all will raise their cost of health care, although they are split 47 - 46 percent on whether they are willing to pay more to make sure everyone is covered. Voters split 48 - 46 percent on whether they think covering everyone will decrease the quality of their own care, but by 71 - 21 percent they do not think universal coverage is worth lower quality of care.


"It's a good thing for those pushing the health care overhaul in Congress that the American people don't get a vote. At this time, supporters are down 14 percentage points," said Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute.


"President Barack Obama's job approval rating continues to slide and it's evident the deterioration stems from voter unhappiness over domestic policy matters," Brown added.


American voters disapprove 54 - 41 percent of Obama's handling of the economy, down from a 52 - 43 percent disapproval November 18 and his worst score ever on this issue. The biggest shift is among Democrats who approve 71 - 24 percent, down from 77 - 18 percent three weeks ago.


The biggest drop in Obama's overall approval is among independent voters, who disapprove 51 - 37 percent, down from 46 - 43 percent disapproval.


The President's support declines as one goes up the age and income scale. Analyzed by religion, Obama gets a thumbs up from 32 percent of white Protestants, 42 percent of white Roman Catholics and 52 percent of Jews.


"The decline in Obama's overall approval in the last month has been small, with the exception of independent voters who went from three points negative to 14 points," Brown said. "If the trend continues, it won't be long before he could be in the unenviable position of having more Americans disapprove than approve of his job performance.


"The White House certainly is concerned about Obama's approval rating, but the President has three years before facing the voters again. With just 11 months until congressional elections, the White House and all Democrats must worry about the steady deterioration in their lead over the GOP in congressional job performance. Now, only 33 percent give the Democrats in Congress a positive rating, compared to 30 percent for Republicans. Last July Democrats had a nine point edge.


"Also, the 20-point lead in July and nine point lead in November that Obama enjoyed when voters were asked who they trusted more to handle health care - he or congressional Republicans - has shrunk to just seven points, 44 - 37 percent."

http://www.quinnipiac.edu/x1295.xml?ReleaseID=1403



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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
1. It seems clear to me.
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:06 AM by AndyA
The voters overwhelmingly WANT a public option, the one thing that Obama and Congress seem to think isn't a big deal. Get a clue, folks.

Obama is losing the independent voters that helped elect him.

Obama is losing the progressive voters that helped elect him.

Obama is losing the gay voters that helped elect him.

Seriously, you have to wonder about these people. It truly seems clear to me which direction they need to go, but they seem to be doing everything possible to do just the opposite. :shrug:
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. It's like the stock sci-fi movie guy who wants to reason with the aliens
Everyone in the audience is yelling, "No! Don't do it!"

ZZZZZAP!
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
17. It's surreal - as if they WANT to crash and burn. nt
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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:06 AM
Response to Original message
2. For everyone who thinks passing a bad bill is more important than
not passing a bill at this time, all I can say is wake
up and smell the coffee.

This bill went up in smoke so far as the country is concerned
when Obama put the tight budget parameters on the darn thing.
This bill must be budget neutral. Once again the Democrats
told the country--We will take working class taxes and save
wall street but we will act like Misers when it comes to Health
care. The picture the American People have is a bunch of
so called Democrats(really Mod. Republicans) sitting in
back rooms wearing green eyeshades. Instead of going to the
people and giving them a dream and a vision of what HIR
could be, they remained hidden. The Media gave a one to two
sentence report on what they "might be working on". The
American people have this vision : Tight-wad Senators looking
out the Insurance Industry--going we can make that fit. OH NO,
that will be too generous, throw that out. We must stick
to budget parameters. Never this is an overall plan which
will make Americans feel good as well as secure about their
health care. Once again, we are left with what is the difference
between a Democrat and a Republican--they both serve at the
altar of Business--in this case the Insurance Industry, Big Pharma

Perception trumps reality in Politics. To have anything meaningful
in Politics , lesson one--you get the people with you and bring
them along--every step of the way.

I hope these Defict Hawks are smart enough to realize the economy
is a diffent ball game than when Pres. Clinton governed. The
reason the people are out of work and the jobs are not coming
back is the result of a globalization crisis. I hope Larry
Sommers is not just repeating the Clinton Playbook thinking
he will get same results. Why do I mention this. The HCIR
has been part of Deficit Reduction--not improving the Country.

Sure we need to reduce the deficit. TIMING is every thing.
Tighten up like Hoover and bring us into a Double Dip even
Depression. There are as many Economists taking the position
that we may need to do more spending rather than the belt
tightening too soon. Obama has surrounded himself with too
many belt tightners from Harvard AND THE University of Chicago.

I hold the Democrats on the Hill just as responsible.
They had better take a breath and think about the country
then once again think about HCIR.

I want our party to succeed. Sometimes they need to be reminded
of who they are and why they are there.

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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. The thing is we can't pass the public option
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 11:33 AM by Politics_Guy25
Joe Lieberman will never allow it, what an ass. Plus, reconciliation points of order require 60 votes in the senate to dispose of even though reconicilation itself requires just 51.

The only reason we don't have a strong public option is because of Joe Lieberman. God I hate him.

Nelson/Lincoln could have been brought on board. Lieberman won't even negotiate. He says no public option under any circumstances.

It's not our fault. Its Lieberman.

Also, the republicans would issue thousands of points of order to reconciliation as well, all of which require 60 votes to dispose of.

Joe Lieberman cost Gore the presidency and now has cost us HCR. Good job Joe!
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. Then you scrap the plan and say HC sucks because of Joe Lieberman.
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iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Lieberman wants Obama to fail.
I would be suprised if he does NOT endorse the Republican candidate in 2012.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Great Post
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KrR Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
23. Its not a bad bill so you wasted alot of typing there....
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JVS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is what happens when you allow your belief in compromise lead to spending 8 months making...
a shit sandwich for the public.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
18. In a nutshell, yes. Best to make a great Dem sandwich...
...and give everyone a taste.
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WI_DEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Hardly bad news for Obama compared to other presidents in the midst of a recession
If the economy were stronger he would be well over 50%. He still is doing much better than the Republicans or congressional democrats on poll questions. Heck, at this time in '93, I think Bill Clinton had a 36% approval rating.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. At this point in '93 Clinton had only one year of a Democratic congress left
The re-election of Barack Obama is quite important but it is not the only thing that matters.
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bluestateguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 11:53 AM
Response to Original message
8. We need to really cool it with the polls
The election is over.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. For some reason in a Democracy the views of the people are considered of ongoing interest
And since every seat in the House is up in less than a year I don't know that the election is over.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:36 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. Would be more convincing if we had heard that before they all sank so low.
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iceman66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. What the media will NEVER mention,
is that, even after all this decline, Obama and the Democrats are STILL outpolling the Republicans.

What 'our' leaders don't seem to get is that their numbers would improve if they acted more like Democrats and less like Republicans. Either that or they don't care.

I'm convinced that many Democrats in Congress actually prefer to be the minority party.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
15. The disapproval seems to be more over the handling of the issue than any position
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 12:47 PM by Armstead
I think Democrats screwed the pooch by tugging in too many directions.

People don't necessarily disapprove of the details of health reform. What's to like or dislike about it? Heck, every day it's different.

Rather than come up with a meaningful plan, a consistent set of principles and goals and pressing for it as a united front -- which is what Republicans tend to do when in power -- the Democrats had no commitment to anything other than some vague notion of "reform." And some democrats didn;t even want that.

People like Ben Frickin Nelson would have been happier if the democrats would have continued to just ignore the whole issue. Boneheads like Kent Conrad let his green eyeshades get in the way of his heart....meanwhile, Obama was trying to be Mr. Popularity and not rock any boats by actually getting involved in setting any real goals beyond meaningless generalitries.....The list of screw ups was long.

That's what I think the public objects to. It's not the details of "President Obama's health reform." Who the hell even knows what his idea of health reform is? Likewise with Congress. Every day we get another version.

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. The pugs can attack fantasy while we are left to defend reality, which is why the
The pugs can attack fantasy while we are left to defend reality, which is why the serial approach of tossing issues in congress' lap to sort out is such a loser.

If Obama had a plan then he, from the position of most influential man in the world, could have defended the plan.

Instead we got a rolling series of maybes all open to pug attacks that were difficult to refute since there was no bill to refute them with.

The pugs--a singularly non-credible outfit--defined this issue by default. Should not have gone down that way.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I think it could have been sold as a simple soundbite...
Our plan is to more tightly regulate insurance companies' prices and acceptance policies. We're also going to provide a voluntary publicly run alternative basic health plan for those who wish to participate.

The details could have then been worked out to fit such a broad outline, while providing a consistent framework that people would readily understand, even during the sausage-making process. And I believe a majority of the public would have supported it.

(Even though folks like teabaggers and Republican politicians would have been against anything, they could have been marginalized with a united message machine. Republicans could have been invited to add input and suggestions (maybe even tort reform) but it would be clear that this was the basic purpose and structure.)



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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Kurt_and_Hunter...
If you had to guess, what do you think the house/senate numbers will be the day after election day 2010? Right now they are 258-177 and 60-40 of course.
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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. I no longer consider losing the House impossible, but it remains unlikely
I would expect something like 224-212 and 56-44.

That retains organizational control but in practice kinda gives the Republicans the House since a RW coalition would be firmly in control. There are more than enough conservadems to swing most votes.

Because the pugs did okay in 2004 we don't have as much exposure in the Senate, since only 2004 winners are up again.

But what I learned in 1994 is how hard these things can break late. So all bets are off.

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Kurt_and_Hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. .
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Politics_Guy25 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Thanks Kurt for your answer
I appreciate it. I'm into getting as much insight as I can into 2010. Thanks!
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-10-09 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
21. That's what happens when the party in power surrenders to business lobbyists.
Edited on Thu Dec-10-09 03:46 PM by TexasObserver
We are not delivering on the promise of health care, a promise the public supports.

We will never get 40% of the electorate, but we're losing the 20% in the middle, both independents and Democrats.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
26. More about poll numbers
Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 01:53 PM by Tippy
While much has been said about President Obama's falling poll numbers, Tom Jensen notes that he is not alone.

Although Obama's approval/disapproval spread between April and December has fallen ten points, Mitt Romney dropped nine points, and Mike Huckabee has fallen eight points. Sarah Palin has only lost two points, but she has had consistently worse ratings than the others to start with.

"These numbers suggest that at least part of Obama's decline in popularity can be attributed to a general dissatisfaction of voters with politicians right now regardless of their party."

<http://@politicalwire.com>



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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
27. No unexpected news here based on the situation we're in and the lofty goals
I think Obama & co are doing just fine. Polls don't mean much right now.
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Tippy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-11-09 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
28. National Journal polls...congressional & insiders
Edited on Fri Dec-11-09 02:28 PM by Tippy
This week's National Journal polls Congressional and political insiders on their favorite members of Congress, the member they'd like most to shut up, the brightest thinkers and strategists in their parties and much more.

And Hotline OnCall is giving everyone a sneak preview. Some fascinating, and some very expected, results below. A full list of our insiders is at the bottom.

Which member has the brightest future?

<<http://hotlineoncall.nationaljournal.com/archives/2009/insiders_love_w.php>


Scroll down....

sorry link not working...


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