Dr. King v Obama

[grassfed]

The nonviolent approach does not immediately change the heart of the oppressor. It first does something to the hearts and souls of those committed to it. It gives them new self-respect; it calls up resources of strength and courage they did not know they had.
-- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

We must begin by acknowledging the hard truth that we will not eradicate violent conflict in our lifetimes. There will be times when nations - acting individually or in concert - will find the use of force not only necessary but morally justified.
-- President Obama Nobel Speech

[WI_DEM]

1. Did Dr. King oppose all wars?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Cage Match!!!

:woohoo:

[marmar]

3. I get your point.....but that's not a fair comparison.

Wouldn't you compare Barack Obama to another president or political leader in this case? ...... Being black and prominent isn't enough to justify a comparison.

[grassfed]

4. Obama quotes King in his Nobel speech nt

[impik]

8. He quoted Kennedy too. And mentioned the Pope, Nixon, Mao and Lech Valensa.

[Algorem]

11. he also said "Dr. King's's"

Ithink it was "Dr. King's's legacy". bad grammar.sounded Shrubbish.

[WI_DEM]

5. Actually Dr. King and Obama have much in common. Some blacks thought he was too moderate

just as some in the Democratic base think that Obama is too moderate. On the other hand the establishment like J. Edgar Hoover felt that Dr. King was a radical just as GOP leaders (and people like Rush) are calling Obama a Socialist.

[impik]

6. Way to take few lines out of context. And when was Dr. King president?

Did he ever have the weight of the entire country's safety on his shoulders? Did he face the grim reality of reading intelligence briefings?

Would Dr. King oppose World War II?

[FrenchieCat]

7. Dr, King sure in the hell knew that anything of value takes time, perseverance and

consistent work. Obama has just begun his work, and MLK would be proud of what he has accomplished thus far. To think otherwise would be to believe that MLK was a fool who was too stupid to understand that progress takes patience and diligence; two of Obama's virtues. There are no instant results, and if there were, they would be fleeting.

[Drunken Irishman]

9. I'm starting to feel had DU been around during WWII, we'd have hanged FDR.

[Algorem]

12. korsakov's psychosis?

[uponit7771]

13. +1!!!

[avaistheone1]

14. Rubbish.

Stop drinking.

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[Drunken Irishman]

19. I hear you're into that, though.

Sicko.

[avaistheone1]

30. People who are drunk do not hear or think clearly and project their problems on to others.

Get help.

[Drunken Irishman]

39. Seems like you're the one doing a lot of projecting here, buddy.

[arcadian]

22. You point out something that I feel needs to be said about that poster.

Does anybody care that that username promotes a denigrating stereotype about a group of people?

[Drunken Irishman]

24. I was going to say something, but I'm too drunk to finish.

:eyes:

[arcadian]

29. Well, obviously you don't care.

I'm Irish and I've had members of my family succumb to alcoholism. I find your user name to be inappropriate.

[avaistheone1]

32. I am curious too.

Why would one would want to take an ethnic stereotypical slur and banner themselves with it as a name?

[Lilith Velkor]

36. I'm Irish and I think it's funny.

Besides, if you look at some of his OPs, it's more like truth in advertising.

[Drunken Irishman]

40. Hey, me too!

Well everything you said except the inappropriate part!

[NJmaverick]

16. I feel the same way

[moondust]

26. Pure pacifism would have easily defeated the Nazis.

:eyes:

[Cleobulus]

10. Dr. King quote from "Beyond Vietnam"...

They must see Americans as strange liberators. The Vietnamese people proclaimed their own independence in 1945 after a combined French and Japanese occupation, and before the Communist revolution in China. They were led by Ho Chi Minh. Even though they quoted the American Declaration of Independence in their own document of freedom, we refused to recognize them. Instead, we decided to support France in its reconquest of her former colony.

Our government felt then that the Vietnamese people were not "ready" for independence, and we again fell victim to the deadly Western arrogance that has poisoned the international atmosphere for so long. With that tragic decision we rejected a revolutionary government seeking self-determination, and a government that had been established not by China (for whom the Vietnamese have no great love) but by clearly indigenous forces that included some Communists. For the peasants this new government meant real land reform, one of the most important needs in their lives.

For nine years following 1945 we denied the people of Vietnam the right of independence. For nine years we vigorously supported the French in their abortive effort to recolonize Vietnam.

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/45a/058.html

[FrenchieCat]

18. As long as you leave those Twin Towers and the lives that went with them

out of the equation, you doing good. Keep it up.
Your sin of omission should not be counted in this case,
so that you can feel righteous in using King's words,
as though they fit the case of today's first African American President
inheriting two wars.

[Cleobulus]

20. What the fuck does that have to do with anything?

You invoke 9/11 as if that is a justification for the United States to do ANYTHING. Here, allow me to make this clear, so there is no misunderstanding, what happened on 9/11/01 was NOT an act of war, it was a CRIMINAL act, perpetuated by CRIMINALS, and should have always been an issue of LAW ENFORCEMENT, NOT the military, to deal with. Bush fucked this up bad, hence why Bin Laden(assuming he's alive) is still at large.

[FrenchieCat]

23. Like I said, inherited wars.......

one which is a NATO war which was justified, whether rightly or wrongly, due to the attacks that occurred in this country. You can deny the facts that are there, but they are still there.

[arcadian]

27. Those aren't facts.

That is the subjective truth of a bunch of war hawks looking for justification for their Asian imperialistic goals.

[Forkboy]

34. It's right out of the Condi/Powell/Cheney playbook.

Invoke 9/11.

[treestar]

37. Well as to that 911 did happen

I did not think at the time we had to attack somebody just to attack somebody, but I was in a very small minority then.

80% of the country supported that war then. Why do they think they should not deal with the consequences now? Or at least that percentage that is now suddenly against it.

[arcadian]

21. Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11

Quit spreading that lie.

[FrenchieCat]

25. You can pretend.....

but whether you like it or not, we are Afghanistan directly because of 9/11.....
it may not have been what you wanted to see, and you may not agree with the action,
but it is how we got to where we are.
Further, neither wars being fought was started by Barack Obama. period.

[arcadian]

28. He owns them and he is prolonging them, expanding them.

Bush didn't start Pakistan. Why are you comparing Obama to Bush all the time?

[FrenchieCat]

31. We shall see.......

beyond your loud and repetitive protestations what will be.

Obama is his own man, and the person that we elected....
and as I would say to the extreme racist ass whining rightwingers,
I would say to you as well; Kucinich got 1% in the primaries;
Edwards had his hands in the wrong pants,
Hillary conceded, McCain lost it, and Obama won the election; get.over.it.

[arcadian]

33. That's all you got?

Is to label people that don't agree with a racist? That's a pretty weak argument. And ummm... It's a discussion board, you are reading this post. It's all in your head. There are no decibels.

[treestar]

38. And if any of those Democrats had won, they'd have to deal with

Afghanistan right now, too. It is hard to believe Hillary would be having us just pull out right away.

[grassfed]

35. yes, see PIPELINEISTAN by Pepe Escobar

http://www.tomdispatch.com/post/175050

[jberryhill]

41. "of the oppressor"

Compare and contrast:

1. Nonviolent resistance as a means of effecting change within a political system; and

2. Nonviolent resistance as a means of securing against external attack.

[DerekG]

42. The prophet vs. the politician

One suffers, the other dishes it out.