Anyone want to make predictions on how much FURTHER right this administration will go?

[Ken Burch]

And how much louder the "it's enough that the president is a Democrat" crowd will get will they shout people down over the sellouts to come?

[LastNaturalist]

1. You mean further right than "most liberal president since FDR?"

Yeah, he'll probably go a little further right than that around election time, 2012. When he wins a second term.

:)

[Ken Burch]

2. He won't be able to say he's the "most liberal since FDR"

If, in 2012, the wars are still going, healthcare hasn't happened, gays still can't serve in the military and EFCA hasn't passed.

There's no liberalism left if all of the above are the state of affairs in 2012.

[LastNaturalist]

3. You do know Harry Truman proposed health care reform right?

And Obama is the President that will actually get it passed? And with a weak Congress of pansies, no less. Get over yourself.

[Ken Burch]

4. That would be the "health care" bill that now leaves out everyone under 55?

The one that is, therefore, worthless?

[pampango]

7. Let's see how the progressives in congress end up voting on an eventual HCR bill.

Right now it looks like the Senate bill will differ significantly from the House bill. Maybe something good will come out of the conference, maybe not.

We already know that 99%+ of republicans will vote against any reform. If 95% of progressive legislators vote for the eventual HCR bill and 99% of repubs vote against it, I'll take it as a first step. If the eventual bill attracts a lot of repub support and is opposed by most progressives in congress, I'll consider it worthless and a sellout to the insurance industry.

[Ken Burch]

10. Fair enough.

n/t.

[ima_sinnic]

5. so passing "it" just for the sake of doing so is ok, doesn't matter what "it" is?

what exactly is Obama "getting passed"? Do you even know--or care?

And Congress is no more "pansies" than he is. They know what they want, and they are getting it. It just doesn't happen to be what you and I want.

[Ken Burch]

6. It's the healthcare equivalent of the Civil Rights Act of 1957.

If you want to know how much good THAT did, ask the families of those little girls in the church in Birmingham. Or the families of Chaney, Schwerner and Goodman. Or the people who died on the Freedom Rides.

[ima_sinnic]

8. well, since those girls were killed in 1963, it didn't help them much

or the others, who were all active later. The act in 1957 merely gave the right to vote. The important desegregation legislation was passed later.

However, to compare my newly won "right" to purchase useless health insurance with the rights of minorities to enjoy equal protection under the law and be accorded the full rights of all U.S. citizens is a bit histrionic, I think.

[Ken Burch]

9. The right to vote, as supposedly included in the act, was meaningless

If that had mattered, people wouldn't have been getting killed in Mississippi and Alabama for ATTEMPTING to register to vote.

And without any real universality FROM THE START, there never will be universality and people from the lower levels of the class system will keep dying to save the rich money. That's WORTH getting "histrionic" about.

The Civil Rights Act of 1957 was worthless and anyone conversant with the Civil Rights movement would agree. This bill, as currently written, is JUST as worthless.

[ima_sinnic]

11. are you then agreeing w me that this is not really "reform" that will benefit We The People? (nt)

[Ken Burch]

12. It's looking more and more like that.

I agree that the bill at present sucks and see no reason to think it will get better.

[ima_sinnic]

13. oh, sorry for the argumentative post upthread, then

:toast:

[Ken Burch]

14. No worries. This is a tense time.

Enjoy your cyber-pint.

[Sherman A1]

15. Yes, he die and I think the first one to propose it was TR

back in the early 1900's. The answer to the question which we all await is "will this HCR really be worth the effort?"

If it is so watered down by the time it gets signed, was it worth it?


I suppose only time will tell.

[AllentownJake]

17. Nixon was more liberal than President Obama actually

If you look at administration policy. His healthcare proposal is more "liberal" than the one we are about to approve. Yes and that little mind fuck makes my head explode too.

He certainly isn't more liberal than LBJ or Carter. It will be seen in a few years whether or not he is to the right of Bill Clinton.

He's to the left of the Bush's and Reagan.

Read a book or stop making shit up.

[asdjrocky]

18. You will buy anything they sell you won't you?

Most liberal President since FDR? Have you been reading the National Review again, or Weekly Standard.

Oops sorry, assuming you read.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[harun]

16. I'm still waiting for it to do anything that would be Progressive or Left.

[freddie mertz]

19. Is that even possible?

Name one liberal/progressive thing they have done.

Even the good things, like stem cells, are more centrist than liberal gestures.

[SIMPLYB1980]

21. LoL!

[Clio the Leo]

22. Just far enough to piss you off completely. :-p NT