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Note to self re 2012: President Obama's Nobel Speech > A checklist of main points

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:32 PM
Original message
Note to self re 2012: President Obama's Nobel Speech > A checklist of main points
An award that speaks to our highest aspirations
Our actions matter and can bend history toward justice
I'm at the beginning of my labors
Most profound issue surrounding this prize is that I am CIC of troops at war
I have acute sense of costs of armed conflict
War has always been a human fact
Law sought control
Philosophy sought control
Just war was defined
Just war has historically been rarely observed
Defeat of 3rd Reich was Just Cause
More civilians than soldiers died in WWII
Institutions developed to prevent world war
America lead World to construct these institutions
Some success in this = no WW III
We are the heirs of foresight & fortitude
Old architecture is buckling under new threats
In today's wars more civilians are killed, seeds of future conflicts sown
I have no solution to the problems of war
We must think in new ways about the imperatives of Just Wars and the imperatives of Just Peace
We will not eradicate violent conflict
Nations will find the use of force necessary & Justified
MLK Violence never brings permanent peace
I am living testimony to the moral force of nonviolence, it is not weak, passive, or naïve
As a head of state, sworn to protect my nation, I cannot be guided by their examples alone
I face the world as it is and cannot be idle in the face of evil in the world
This not cynicism, but a recognition of history, imperfections of man, limits of reason
There is deep ambivalence about military action no matter what the cost
Reflexive suspicion of America, the world's sole military super-power
Whatever mistakes we have made the fact is that for 6 decades the US has underwritten global security
This promoted peace and security
Not to impose our will
Out of enlightened self-interest
We seek better lives for our children and believe they will have it if others have peace & prosperity
So instruments of war do have a role to play in preserving the peace
This truth must co exist with another
No matter how Justified war promises human tragedy
Soldiers' courage and sacrifice is full of glory expressing devotion to country, cause, comrades in arms
But war itself is never glorious
Must never be trumpeted as such
Part of challenge is to reconcile two seemingly ir-reconcilable truths
War is necessary: War is an expression of human folly
JFK let us focus on a more practical more attainable peace, based not on a sudden revolution in human nature, but on a gradual evolution of human institutions
What might this evolution look like:
Practical steps: all nations must adhere to standards that govern the use of force;
Adherence to standards strengthens those who do and isolates and weakens those who don't
Consensus re self-defense, against aggression
No nation can insist that others follow rules if they don't follow them themselves
Doing so makes their actions appear arbitrary and undercut legitimacy of future interventions
No matter how justified
This becomes particularly important when purpose of military extends beyond self defense
Or (beyond) the defense of one nation against an aggressor
More questions about how to prevent a a government killing its own citizens
Or prevent violence from engulfing a region
Force can be justified on humanitarian grounds
In-action tears at conscience and can lead to more costly intervention later
All nations must embrace role military with clear mandate can play to keep the peace
America's commitment to global security will never waver
America cannot act alone, because America alone cannot secure the peace
True in Afghanistan and Somalia will continue to be true in unstable regions for years to come
NATO demonstrate this truth
But many nations have disconnect between efforts of those who serve & ambivalence of broader public
I understand why war is not popular, but
The belief that peace is desirable is rarely enough to achieve it
Peace requires responsibility, entails sacrifice,
This is why NATO is indispensable and we must strengthen UN peace keeping
Don't leave task to a few countries
Why we honor those who return home, not as wagers of wars, but as makers of peace
As we make difficult decisions about going to war, we must think clearly about how we fight it
We have a moral and strategic interest in binding ourselves to certain rules of conduct
This makes us different from those whom we fight
Why I closed Guatanamo, ended torture, recommit to Geneva conventions
Effort to avoid such tragic choices = 3 Ways to build Just and lasting peace:
1. Must develop alternatives to violence that are tough enough to change behavior
Words of international community must mean something
Those who break rules must be held accountable
Sanctions must exact a real price
Intransigence must be met with increased pressure
Pressure exists only when world stands together as one
One urgent example = prevent spread of nuclear weapons,
e.g. Nuclear nonproliferation treaty 50 years ago
All will have access to peaceful nuclear power
Those without will forsake nuclear weapons
Those with them will work to disarm
This treaty is a center piece of my foreign policy
It is incumbent upon all of us to insist that nations do not game the system
We who claim to uphold international law cannot avert our eyes when IL is flouted
Care for security cannot ignore danger of arms race in ME
Same principle applies to those who violate international law by brutalizing their own people
Must be consequences
Yes to engagement, yes to diplomacy, but must be consequences
Closer we stand together the less likely that we will be faced with a choice between armed intervention and complicity in oppression
2. The Nature of the peace that we seek
Peace is not merely the absence of visible conflict
Only a just peace based on the inherent rights and dignity of every individual can be lasting
Declaration of Universal Human Rights after WWII too often ignored
Some countries' failures = excuse that these are Western principles foreign to local culture or stages of development
In America tension between Realists and Idealists re human rights
Suggests stark choice between narrow pursuit of interests or an endless campaign to impose our values around the world.
I reject these choices
Peace is unstable where people are denied the right to speak freely or worship as they please, choose their own leaders, or assemble without fear
Pent up grievances fester, suppression of tribal and religious identity leads to violence
The opposite is also true: only when Europe became free did it find Peace
Neither American interests nor the World's are served by the denial of human aspirations
Even as we respect countries and cultures we will always be a voice for universal aspirations
It is telling that the oppressive leaders fear their own people more than the power of other nations
It is the responsibility of all nations to make clear that these movements of hope and history have us on their side
Promotion of human rights cannot be about exhortation alone, also painstaking diplomacy (lacks the satisfaction and purity of indignation) but sanctions without outreach, condemnation without discussion can carry forward only a crippling status quo
No regime can move down a new path without an open door
No simple formula, must balance isolation and engagement, pressure and incentive
So that human rights and dignity advance over time
3rd Just peace includes not only political and civil right, but also economic security and opportunity
Peace = Not just freedom from fear, but freedom from want
Development does not take root without security, security does not exist where there is not enough access to food, clean water, medicine, shelter, no decent education, or a job that supports a family
The absence of hope can rot a society from within
Helping others is not mere charity,
Security is also why world must come together to address climate change = more conflict for decades
Not just scientist, and environmentalists, but also military leaders in my own country know this
We need agreements among nations, strong institutions, support for human rights, investments in development
I do not believe that we will have the will, determination, staying power to complete this work without something more
We need the continued expansion of our moral imagination
To the insistence that there is something irreducible that we all share
As world grows smaller you might think that it would be easier for us to recognize how similar we are
Globalization, cultural leveling of modernity = people fear the loss of what they cherish in their particular identities, their race, their tribe, most powerfully in their religion
Some places this fear has lead to conflict
Feels like we have moved backwards in many regions
Most dangerously seen in how religion is used to justify the murder of innocence by those who have distorted and defiled the great religion of Islam and have attacked my country from Afghanistan
These extremists are not the first to kill in the name of god , e.g. The Crusades
Remind us that no holy war can ever be a just war
Belief that you are carrying out divine will = no need for restraint against anyone even someone of one's own faith
Warped view of religion is incompatible with concept of Peace and also the very purpose of Faith.
The one rule at the heart of every major religion = Do unto others as we would have them do unto us.
Adhering to law of Love has always been the core struggle of human nature
We are fallible
We make mistakes
Fall victim to the temptations of pride and power and sometimes Evil
Even best of intentions fail to right the wrongs before us
We don't have to believe that human nature is perfect to believe that human nature can be perfected
Don't have to live in an idealized world to reach for ideals to make it a better place
Nonviolence may not have been historically possible in every circumstance, but Love, faith in human progress must always be the guide on our journey
If we lose that, faith is silly or naïve,
We lose what is best about humanity, our sense of possibility
MLK = refuse despair as final response to ambiguities of history, refuse to accept is-ness of man's present condition makes him morally capable of reaching up for ought-ness
Let us reach for the world that ought to be
That spark of the divine that still steers within each of our souls
Somewhere today, in the here and now world as it is, a soldier sees that he is out-gunned, but stands firm to keep the peace
Somewhere a young protestor awaits the brutality of her government but has the courage to march on
Somewhere a mother facing punishing poverty still takes the time to teach her child and still scrapes together the coins she has to send the child to school because she believes a cruel world still has a place for that child's dreams
Let us live by their example
We can acknowledge that oppression will always be with us and still strive for justice
Can admit the intractability of deprivation and still strive for dignity
Clear eyed we can understand that there will be war and still strive for peace
We can do that, because that is the story of human progress
The hope of all the world
And at this moment of challenge that must be our work here on Earth.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. You missed a couple
War is Peace.
Slavery is Freedom.
We have always been at war with East Asia.

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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. My notes are a direct transcription. Yours are not.
Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 02:50 PM by patrice
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Paraphrasing is verbatim
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. That is a contradiction in terms, i.e. bullshit, I won't honor with an attempt at reason.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. bullshit is reason
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. only to mushrooms
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. mushroom is whatever the opposite of mushroom is.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Formulaic = predictable = boring.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #1
16. LMFAO!!
Edited on Sat Dec-12-09 04:11 PM by jonnyblitz
exactly. :patriot:

sick fucking orwellian speech he gave. :puke:
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. How Orwellian of you!
:applause:
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 01:22 AM
Response to Reply #1
31. Obama proved that he understands that War and Peace are
not black and white issues. You obviously haven't learned that.
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Mithreal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-13-09 02:03 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Not B&W if it is a defensive war. Now offensive war otoh is black and white.
Offensive war is illegal and a war crime, no?

Helps that the Bush Doctrine is still in effect.

Repeat of the lie that Afghanistan attacked us on 9/11 is so necessary.

1984 all over again.
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tabatha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is it not ironic that the state that is being strived for
for Afghanistan is for them to have the means to defend themselves (against warmongers).
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. And, thus, (at least in theory) maintain their own internal peace under a leader that deserves this
this commitment.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wow, patrice! Magnificent~
Thank you. So many unrecs from those who are afraid to face reality, no doubt, and this should definetly be on the Greatest!
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. I'm used to People wanting things to be easier/simpler than they really are.
It's a political gamble for this President no matter which way he goes.

I just needed to know exactly what he said and there are some interesting word choices, a certain avoidance of absolute things like "all", "always", and "never", certain potential qualifications maintained against a ground of givens.

I have a couple of definite points of personal contention with this speech, but definitely on a whole, I understand it/him. I don't think he is wrong. It's just that so much depends upon how the different very specific details of this global dialectic play out.

I'm also hoping that We the People get a trade-off of some sort for the fact that MANY of us, despite the last 60 years, never wanted to be THE police force for the World and the fact that that's what we are right now will cost so many so much and I'm not talking just military, nor just dollars, here.

I need to look up exactly what he said about 2011 in his announcement of 30K military persons being sent to Afghanistan.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. I think the president did the only
he could..knowing what he knows and politics be damned.

He's not going to play around with our Soldiers' lives..that's how I know how serious this is.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. That's also one of the reasons March 19-20, 2003 made me so permanently sad.
I knew, from living through the Viet Nam era, that even when the country developed the will to get out of Afghanistan & Iraq, there would be no leaving under our own criteria. Once you do something like this, you lose your autonomy.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. Those stuck in the binary thinking paradigm don't get the nuances
that you have thoughtfully outlined. I despise the notion of more war, but Pres Obama had two wars wrapped waiting for him on the WH doorstep when he took office. Sort of like a bag of dog poop on fire.

k 'n r
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. There's also dishonesty, conscious or un-conscious, about what one's highest priority is.
Sometimes, your highest priority requires the honest humility to put competing priorities in their place.

You can see this around here in people who are quite possibly posing as Liberals who have the benefit of the People closest to heart but, in actuality, have placed the drive toward power through destruction ahead of the most good for the most people. Maybe they think the power they think they can get will serve the common good once they acquire that power, but there is at least the question that if "the common good" requires coercive power, bringing it about may result in just another cycle of the same old same old. It's would just be a question of time before the new boss becomes the old boss.

What we need is more change at the grassroots, independent of political leadership.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. I'd say it was much worse than
a bag of dog poop on fire, old chap.
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Lord Helmet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. Much worse.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That use to give me comfort
to no end ..knowing people in Germany had bush's number.
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
14. Well-done Patrice. Kicked, Recced, and Bookmarked. nt
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:21 PM
Response to Original message
19. Why do we need a synopsis? n/t
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. No one said you do. It's for me and anyone who wants it. Don't want it? Don't click on it.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. P.S. I have been seeing what has turned out to be a lot of lies about this speech posted here.
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Fire1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 05:36 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. Gotcha! Lies? More like preconceived notions and
misrepresentations.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Some, yes, but there are also people on this board who outright lie.
Some are more interested in destruction of the existing order (and I CAN understand why) than they are in avoiding harm and doing the most good for the most people.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
28. ?
Meet Hamid Karzai
or as Obama calls him, "The Government of Afghanistan".

He was appointed by Bush the Lesser to run Afghanistan.
He is one of the most despicable criminals in The World,
But NOW we like him so much
that our children will be sent to die in the deserts to keep him in power.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. "our children" V - O - L - U - N -T - E - E - R - E - D and they were told what the UCMJ is before
they raised their hands. If they have trouble with why/what/who/when/where/how being under the control of others, they should NOT have enlisted.
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-12-09 08:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. "The topic you have chosen has been saved in your bookmark list."
K and R.

Thanks.
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