So if Bush's tax cuts were a major factor in the economic collapse of the United States

[mtnsnake]

then doesn't it make perfect sense that those tax cuts should not be extended for a single day? Let alone for 2 more years??

For the sake of our country, I would be more than happy as a middle class American to see ALL the tax cuts expire if it meant that the rich would finally see their obscene handouts from Bush come to a screeching halt. It wouldn't kill any of us.

This shameful deal has nothing but politics and surrender written all over it.

[Honeycombe8]

1. Who said the Bush tax cuts were a major factor in the collapse? nt

[mtnsnake]

2. The economists? nt

[merbex]

4. Did you see any job creation with those tax cuts?

Those tax cuts had 10 years to yeild millions of jobs....where are they?

[BadgerKid]

5. Proabably overseas.

I would believe that the money saved by outsourcing when into executives' pockets.

[Cosmocat]

20. None, zero, zip ...

there were other larger factors involved, but the tax cuts exasperated it, giving those holding the greatest portion of wealth less incentive to actually spend or invest in tax deductable business expenses ...

Sorry, at 33% they just hold and invest their wealth in speculative markets (with the 2003 tax cuts providing the cover for investment returns) ... The 39% rate seems to be enough to force them to put back into the actual, real economy ...

AND, they are pretty much soley responsible for the deficit the republicans will beat him over the head with for the next two years ... There just is no way of overstating how friggen bad this is ...

[CJCRANE]

8. IIRC they cost at least $1 TRILLION.

That's a trillion dollar hole in the Treasury.

Who was it said they want to bankrupt America?

(Oh I remember, Bin Laden, and... Grover Norquist, RW guru).

[Hello_Kitty]

13. ROFLMAO!!

We now have Bush tax cut defenders here. Hilarious!

:rofl:

[paulk]

24. a good article on the subject

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/david-fiderer/the-bush-tax-cuts-and-the_b_781419.html

[tekisui]

3. The Bush/Obama tax cuts and the Bush/Obama Wars are breaking us.

But, don't worry. Obama has frozen federal civilian pay to fix the deficit. :eyes:

[jillan]

6. Don't forget, he also froze Social Security payments this year and next.

No inflation = no raise, he said. Nah - nothing has gone up in price over the last two years :crazy: But those taxcuts for millionaires were so damn important.

How the fuck does he sleep at nite????

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bluenorthwest]

9. The COLA is auto-fixed, but if the President had done as the

candidate promised, and made tax cuts for retired Americans making under 50K a year, there would at least have been a taste for the elderly and disabled in this package that hands out money to everyone but them. When running, Obama said he wanted to end federal tax for that population group. Even a half cut would have been helpful.
Once he had the nomination, he forgot about that. The arguments became all about what the President can not do, not that which he can do. He can always at least try to make a fair deal across the board. This deal is not fair across the board. The retired and elderly get screwed, basically. That is politically just daft, to allow this without at least being seen to advocate for better is just daft. Not wise. Much can be said for trying, even for seeming to try. He did not even do that. Daft.

[jillan]

10. Don't call me a liar ever again - here's your damn links

http://www.savingtoinvest.com/2010/08/2011-cola-increase-for-social-security-benefits-in-doubt.html

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_social_security_no_cola

[phleshdef]

12. LOL, your own links call you a liar.

Read them, then stop being a liar.

[jillan]

14. What part of No COLA increases in 2010 and 2011 do you not understand?

edit to add -

Social Security is supported by a 6.2 percent payroll tax — paid by both workers and employers — on wages up to $106,800. Because there is no COLA, that amount will remain unchanged for 2011.
The absence of inflation will be of small comfort to many older Americans whose savings and home values haven't recovered from the recession.

[phleshdef]

15. The part where you said the President froze them, the part you were called out on.

[jillan]

17. He did freeze them - I'll ask again - what part of No COLA increases do you not understand?

Social security payments to seniors and the disabled remained the same in 2010, and they will remain the same in 2011.

I don't understand what you don't understand - I don't know how to make this any clearer.

[phleshdef]

19. Ok, maybe you aren't lying, you just have no clue how this stuff works.

The Social Security Administration makes that decision, NOT the President and the SSA bases raises on the rate of inflation. Inflation as been virtually dead for 2 years. And this is the way its been done for ages.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[frylock]

26. with xanax and booze

[ProSense]

16. The tax cuts didn't cause the collapse

The problem was that the tax cuts for the rich had no impact on the economy while adding to the deficit.

[Milo_Bloom]

22. Which helped cause the collapse.

[mtnsnake]

23. I never said it did. I said Bush's tax cuts were a major factor in the collapse. Big difference, and

it's been pointed out time and time again that Bush's obscene tax cuts for the rich did NOT create the trickle-down effect that he promised. Not even close. Just look back and see what happened. It was a disaster just like everything else during his two terms. And now we're going to prolong it? Doesn't make sense.

[GoCubsGo]

18. You are confusing the economic collapse with the deficit.

The tax cuts ballooned the deficit. They, however, were not the main cause of our economic problems. Those were caused by deregulation of the banking system, along with dozens and dozens of laws that allowed scam mortgages, and greater corruption on Wall St. and in the banking industry. All this while gutting the government that was supposed to protect us from all of that.

On edit: As someone pointed out earlier in this thread, the two wars had a lot to do with it, as well.

[Phx_Dem]

21. They weren't. It was financial deregulations and risky deals that took down the economy.

Not the debt.

[Catherina]

25. Rec'd. But it's ruling elite complicity, not politics and surrender. Rec'd