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The problem isn't Obama -- It's the Democratic Party framework, and his role in it

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:59 AM
Original message
The problem isn't Obama -- It's the Democratic Party framework, and his role in it
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 11:28 AM by Armstead
The Republican Party is going through its own version of a circular firing squad at the moment, with their own ultra-conservative "base" battling it out with the party's "moderate" leadcership....You might say a Bizarro Universe version of what the Democratic Party has been going through for decades.

But you can't draw too many parallels. In some ways the dynamics are similar, but the details are very different.

For one thing, this disarray in the GOP is relatively recent -- and understandable as the party went from having it all to being cast out into the wilderness in the elections. Plus they had a disaster of an administration who screwed things up beyond all recognition....So finger-pointing is inevitable.

However, despite their fractures, the GOP has one thing we don't. They stand for something. They have a clear set of basic principles, and they don't deviate from them -- except when it's due to incompetence, like Bush chalking up huge deficits. But otherwise, they are very predictable. They oppose the role of government, they oppose taxes and they want business and "the market" to be able to run rampant, regardless of the consequences on everyone else.....(Their emphasis on "freedom" does fall short when it comes to individual rights -- but that's an internal contradiction within their coalition they are going to have to figure out.)

Even the "moderates" champion this view. There is not really a fundamental difference between what the teabaggers want and what the mainstream GOP leadership wants, except in degree and style. Mitt Romney's views are not really different from a Sarah Palin, except he is more intelligent and reasonable about expressing it.

What do the Democrats stand for? Who do they stand for? What is the guiding principle of a Democrat? Is there that same consistency of principles?

No. We are all over the map. Can you actually picture someone like Jan Schakowsky or Ted Kennedy being in the same party as Ben Nelson and Max Baucus? Can you say that diehard, pro-labor liberals like Sherod Brown and Tom Harkin have the same worldview as DLCers like Evan Bayh or Bill Clinton?

This is not a matter of whether to be a Big Tent or not. Big Tents are good, and necessary. Nor is it a matter of ideological "extremists" versus "pragmatic" moderates. If that were the case, Democrats could still be effective, because at least we'd all be rowing in the same direction -- just at different speeds.

It's a more fundamental difference in goals and allegiances. The problem is that we are rowing in different directions. Which ultimately means we go round in circles, and thus remain adrift. Which is ultimately worse, because the current carries us backwards.

Put another way, a "centrist Democrat" is NOT the same as a "moderate liberal Democrat." Their worldviews are different, their allegiances are different, their goals are different. Their underlying philosophy is different. We've seen this play out over countless specific issues as well and in the bigger "framing" of basic goals and principles.

Healthcare reform is the latest example, but we've also seen it in previous debates over NAFTA and "free trade," over financial and other deregulation, labor and welfare policies, etc.

We've also seen it in more basic terms, in arguments over what the party should stand for, whether it believes in government or not, and how much we should placate Republicans and conservatives.

President Obama is in the middle of this, and in many ways he personally embodies this contradiction. When I listen to Obama speak, I love the guy. He pushes all of my buttons as a relatively moderate liberal and progressive. He "gets it."

However, I also am very worried and somewhat suspicious of him. The actions of his administration, and his leadership tone, are more DLC. He seems like half of him is in the camp of liberalism and the other half is being pulled in the direction of the DLC/Wall St./Beltway Insider Consensus. And too often the DLC seems to be winning out.

Thus he becomes a Rorschach test. You can project your hopes onto him, but if you are suspicious of the status-quo crowd of Corporate Democrats you can also project your worries and anger onto his actions -- or inactions.

Bill Clinton was the same way. Listening to him, even a progressive can often say "Yeah. Right on Bill." But the cumulative effect of his actions and policies helped drive the country into the ditch during the 90's (despite the glittery surface of the ice in the 90's). It was a consistent bridge between the Corporate COnservative policies of Reagan/Bush Sr. and Bush W. The devastation we have seen over the last year is just as much a consequence of what happened in the 90's as it is the results of GOP CONservatism.

Because of that, many of us are torn by Obama. he is certainly better than a Republican. He is certainly better than some other Democrats would be in that office. (President Bayh anyone?)

We have to give him the benefit of the doubt. His administration is still young and formative. he also stepped into a mess o'crap that no one could clean up overnight, and which created a crisis mode which prevented any normal handling of situations.

But we worry when we see signs that the Democrats are up to the same old stuff. We worry that what was ultimately a MANDATE FOR LIBERAL CHANGE in the election is being squandered. And as the LEADER of the Democratic Party at the moment, Obama does have both symbolic and practical importance in defining its identity and direction.

That is why the stakes are high, and why many of speak out critically. We're doing what we can in our own small ways to prevent a DLC2 -- The Sequel from occurring.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, come on now -
no rational critiques are permitted in discussing Obama and his administration.

Either you're for him or you're... Huh?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. I know....This may sink like a stone, but if it were "Obama Sucks" ...
...or Lefties Suck it'd get 100 responses.

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AspenRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. Good, thoughtful, rational post.
K&R
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Davis_X_Machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
4. We have coalition politics but don't admit the reality of it.
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 12:02 PM by Davis_X_Machina
This country is backwards from Europe. In Europe you fight the election, then form the coalition. Here you form the coalition, then fight the election.

At any given time we have in the US four or five parties, but only two labels. American politics is coalition politics.

All coalitions can be split.
The bigger the coalition, the more fault lines.
Any coalition large enough to govern will have at least one fault line along which it will split.
Any coalition small enough to stay united isn't big enough to govern, only obstruct.

My concern is that in six months, because the ability to fracture a ruling coalition doesn't allow a faction to produce legislation, but can stop legislation quite easily, Obama won't be able to do anything. A righto-leftist Congressional coalition-of-convenience, will be able to stop everything. You saw the bloc begin to emerge on the supplemental budget vote. You saw it start to emerge on ACES, where Kucinich and DeFazio voted with Boehner. ACES passed by one (1) vote. It's happening again on HCR.


Even if some HCR bill is produced, I predict the next big, Democratic, bill after that will not pass at all‚ thanks to Republicans on the right, and Democrats on the left.

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
10. You're corerect -- That is a big hurdle. But IMO it does not have to mean Democratic paralysis.
The problem with the system is that people who hold different views on different issues are still stuck with the larger labels of party and ideology.

For example, one may be staunchly anti-abortion on moral and/or religious grounds, but extremely liberal and progressive on other issues like economics. If one's beliefs are strong enough, where do they go? To the "family values" Republicans despite their own economic views or to the Democrats?

or, in terms of politicians, Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul may agree on issues of war and peace, but their economic views are polar opposites.

Such dichotomies do make it difficult.

However, since we're stuck with this system, IMO, the problem we have is that there is a one-sided coalition on the key issue of Wealth and Power. Republicans support the interest of free markets over the public interest. But Democrats are not equally consistent from tghe other side. Therefore, too many issues get decided on the side of the powerful over the people.

Healthcare is a perfect example. Republicans represent keeping things the way they are, and they will block anything tyhat pushed the system in the direction of healthcare as being a public responsibility. They are very c onsistent about that, and by just saying "No" they have already staked out their position.

Democrats on the other hand, are not fighting equally strongly on the side of gthe public interest. They are pulled between their timidity and allegiance to the insurance industry on one hand, and their efforts at public-oriented reform on the other.

Thus we have 1 1/2 parties on the sides of insurance, and a half a party on the side of real reform.


I believe that it would be possible for Democrats to be effective and push through a good bill even with differing opinions, and with the need for coalitions on specifics -- including coalitions with republicans on areas of agreement.

The missing ingredient, though is a similar set of underlying principles on the basic goals and allegiences that split Democrats.






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Jennicut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
27. Most accurate post describing how politics is in the US.
No one wants to admit that we have a big tent. It is a big tent because the two parties never split. Other countries have multiple parties and we still have the same two, of course we will have coalition politics. How else would the two parties have stayed together all these years? I do wonder whether the two parties splitting may not be a bad thing.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:06 PM
Response to Original message
5. well stated.
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Guy Whitey Corngood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
6. That's pretty much how I feel. nt
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
7. The GOP stands for dismantling government, which is much easier than governing
Edited on Mon Dec-14-09 12:11 PM by BeyondGeography
My complaint about the Democrats is they have never really taken the ideological fight to the GOP, and I include Obama. I also wish the blogosphere of the beautiful minds on the left would stop wasting its energy on bogus exercises like suspecting Obama's motives (a) he is not and never will be a coporatist and b) he is a true progressive at heart) so we could collectively push him to be more confrontational toward the disloyal and destructive opposition. Obama has already bent over backwards for bipartisanship, which gives him the political leverage to position Democrats as the party of choice for most of the country. Confronting the GOP would have a salutary effect on the Party as a whole as it would force some of our more mealy-mouthed officials to actually take sides. At any rate, pointing guns at each other ain't going to accomplish shit.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. I agree but...
It is frustrating that we have to work so hard just to get taken semi-seriously.

We should all be fighting Republicans, whether one is a moderate or "left" Democrat. Our energy should all be going to further discrediting them, and offering a viable alternative to their right wing ideology.

But gthe problem as I see it is that we do not even a coherent countermessage. It doesn't have to be unanimity about everything. But at least a shared direction.

For a specific example, look at healthcare. Forget universal single payer for a moment. Even if that is taken off the table, we should at least agree that the government should have an important role in both regulating insurers and in providing a public alternative. We should be pounding that home, even if we have to hash out differences over specifics.

But too many Democfrats won;t even go that far. Instead they sound like Republicans in their terror of any perceived government role, and their green -eyeshade obsession with deficits hile thousands die every year for lack of access.

We should not have to be spending so much energy just getting the Democratic "center" just slightly to the left of the Rdepublican "center."



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OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
8. Excellent.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
9. A thoughtful, reasonable, and fair-minded analysis.
WTF is WRONG with you man?

K & R.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Must've been something I ate
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Could you perhaps post the recipe?
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Um, this morning? I'nm afraid the answer is just coffee.
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freddie mertz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I had some myself.
But I'm a bit under the weather today.

And grumpy.

I've got nothing today.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Maybe tomorrow.....Actually, I think my fuel was the meltdown of healthcare
I just got so f'ing tired of hearing certain Democrats worrying that various variations of the already-weak forms of a "public option" were still too tied to government.
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gorfle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
12. This is one of the most rational posts I have ever seen on DU.
Well done.
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timeforpeace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
14. That's the ticket! Don't Blame Obama is a winning slogan.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 01:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. really well thought out post.Thank you.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. Probably one of the better posts about the Dem Party on DU
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AndrewP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. Really interesting post.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. brilliant analysis, I agree completely.
:yourock:
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:37 PM
Response to Original message
24. The powers that be can shove their big tent. nt
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 09:42 PM
Response to Original message
25. Very astute observations.
We have two corporate parties.

The problem for the Democrats is that with them in power now, its hard for them to deliver on the promises they never thought they'd have to keep.

Health-care is the prime example.

I now believe we will be sold out and Joe Lieberman will be their fall guy letting them say "we tried". It lets Obama off the hook...completely. He'll sign whatever the corporations have their lawyers (which would be their Senators) write.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-14-09 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. LOL ""promises they never thought they'd have to keep" -- Not funny but,
have to laugh to keep from crying
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