Sen. Franken’s Statement on Tax Compromise Vote

[ProSense]

Sen. Franken’s Statement on Tax Compromise Vote

Today, Sen. Al Franken (D-Minn.) released the following statement after voting to end debate on the tax cut compromise package:

“I don't like extending the excessive Bush tax cuts for the wealthy, I don't like the explosion in the deficit it will create, and I don't like how the President made this deal. But I would hate even more to see Minnesota families get hurt.

“There's a lot in here to help create jobs and to help middle-class Minnesotans weather this recession: tax cuts for working families, a payroll tax holiday, energy tax credits, and the extension of Recovery Act initiatives that are already making a difference. And a lot of harm would come to working families if unemployment insurance isn’t renewed. So I’m voting for this reluctantly and will continue to fight passionately to get our economic policies on the right track.”

[mtnsnake]

1. More of Bush's handouts aren't the answer

The opposite is.

[stray cat]

3. So we don't implement any of the bill?

[ProudDad]

27. Blame the assholes who gave you that crappy "choice" (n/t)

[pnwmom]

4. Letting long-term unemployment benefits expire isn't the answer.

But that's what will happen unless this bill is passed.

[tavalon]

34. And nobody questions why these two totally unrelated things have been

fused at the hip. Why is that?

[Kermitt Gribble]

49. You're asking questions that aren't addressed in their talking points memo, tavalon.

I don't suspect they'll have an answer for you until they get the next memo.

[tavalon]

58. Independent thinking

That's why I've been thrown under the bus. It's damn crowded under here which gives me some hope.

[vaberella]

52. You realize Middle Class tax cuts were included in the Bush handouts.

You're willing to rip that away. You people make no sense. Seriously.

[dflprincess]

2. I don't suppose Al mentioned how undermining Social Security helps Minnesotans n/t

[Hoyt]

23. Maybe he doesn't see this as undermining SS. I think he would have said something if he did.

I can understand how it happened, but we've become way too paranoid about some things.

[dflprincess]

25. If he did, then he'd have no excuse for voting for it

Al needs to listen to Bernie Sanders and not go along with this latest sell out.

[Hoyt]

26. I think Franken is more than capable of seeing the truth.

Some see this as a step in gutting SS. It might well be if people keep turning on Democrats, because the Rethugs will benefit. I don't see this as a threat to SS otherwise.

[dflprincess]

41. Just got off the phone with his office

The guy I spoke to said they are getting a lot of calls about the payroll tax holiday (and that overall the calls they are getting on this bill are not favorable - lots of anger at Obama). I got the song and dance that Al will always fight to protect Social Security - I politely suggested that if this is true, Al speak to Bernie Sanders before he cast a final vote on this scam.

[Hoyt]

42. Apparently Franken doesn't believe it's a "scam" despite the hysterics.

I don't either. Although I think the hysterics may well hand the Republicons big wins in 2012 with the obvious consequences. They are certainly laughing right now.

[dflprincess]

43. According to his office and Franken himself, he is very unhappy with this bill

and is supposedly aware of all the bad things in it.

As someone pointed out in another thread Congress seems to have the same affliction as Wall Street; the inability to think long term and a fondness for short term fixes. Increasing the deficit by undermining Social Security and extending tax cuts to the wealthy are going to come back to bite us in the ass.

[golfguru]

31. There is NO CHANGE in future SS benefits based on the 2% holiday

So why do you think Social Security is being undermined?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Because It'sA Good Talking Point To Scare People And Undermine Support For The Compromise

.

[vaberella]

53. There are people crying all over this board that SS is undermined.

I thought it was privatized by the way they're acting. This is the reactionary left.

[Pholus]

62. Next year you'll be back telling us why we can't have a "tax increase" in an election year.

There is a reason that this was originally a REPUBLICAN idea and part of the "Starve the Beast" strategy.

Signed,

just another DFH

[vaberella]

65. Tell me again when SS was privatized and destroyed?! n/t

[Pholus]

66. In 2012 the moment you all get ready to "compromise" again. "Oh, but we can't raise taxes."

The whole idea it (like the Bush tax cuts) will pass is because the Repukes know that NOBODY will have the guts to reinstate the tax when the time comes. After all, we didn't have the spine to stop THESE cuts, did we? All it took was a *threat* of obstructionism and we went all Carlsbad on them. 2012 is an election year and if the midterms spooked us into being so stupid the stakes are even higher next time. So this temporary inflow of money from the general fund becomes a permanent contributing part of the deficit (as if THAT will make for a good talking point during the next presidential debate).

Anyway the debate will shift to how the deficit is growing out of control and part of the problem is social security. And we'll have ANOTHER compromise, this time cutting social security badly or abolishing it altogether for the younger folk. And my prediction is that you will be defending the cuts telling me that nobody could predict this, nobody could avoid it and this is the best we could do.

Man, you'd think NOBODY in the WH had ever read anything about "Starve the Beast." The problem with being a hyper-dimensional chess master appears to be that you're so busy with some grand plan you can't see the other side doing a "Queen Raid" on you.

But enjoy punching the DFH's -- it's the only aggressive act you guys seem capable of.

[phleshdef]

35. Why would he mention something that isn't actually happening?

[dflprincess]

44. So Bernie Sanders is wrong?

How does dropping the amount being paid into the Social Security system help it? Taking money from the General Revenue to make it up will only give Republicans and "new Democrats" a reason to claim SS is contributing to the deficit and must be cut. Both these groups have had SS in their sites for a long time and this is just another step toward destroying it.

[Jefferson23]

5. Unfortunate position to take Franken. n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

6. Economists don't seem to think the tax package will do much.

[ProSense]

7. This:

<...>

While the compromise package is likely to boost economic growth in the next two years, it will “adversely affect” the budget deficit, Senior Credit Officer Steven Hess wrote in a note today. Obama’s deal with congressional Republications, announced Dec. 6, calls for a two-year extension of tax rates in return for extending long-term jobless benefits for 13 months and cutting the payroll tax for $120 billion for a year.

“From a credit perspective, the negative effects on government finance are likely to outweigh the positive effects of higher economic growth,” New York-based Hess wrote. “Unless there are offsetting measures, the package will be credit- negative for the U.S. and increase the likelihood of a negative outlook on the U.S. government’s Aaa rating during the next two years.”

The Congressional Budget Office estimates budget deficits of $1.1 trillion for fiscal 2011 and $665 billion for 2012 if tax cuts enacted in 2001 and 2003 expire on schedule on Dec. 31, for a ratio of government debt to GDP of 68.5 percent by the end of fiscal 2012, Hess wrote. The net cost of the compromise package may be $700 billion to $900 billion, pushing the ratio to as much as 73 percent, he wrote.

“Higher economic growth should have a positive effect on government revenues and reduce payments related to unemployment,” Hess wrote. “However, the magnitude of this positive effect will be considerably less than the forgone revenue and increased benefit expenditure.”

There also is a risk that the tax-cut extension may be renewed during the presidential-election year of 2012, which might generate a “considerable increase in deficit and debt levels” unless there are offsetting provisions, he wrote.

link

Yeah, in the long run something needs to be done about the deficit, but I'm sure the President is up to the challenge.

[Milo_Bloom]

8. How incredibly inconclusive.

Love the use of wiggle words. Is the best you can find a bunch of maybes, shoulds and coulds?

"negative effects on government finance are likely to outweigh "

"economic growth should have a positive effect"

Hopefully congress is smart enough not to risk a trillion dollars on such an unsure proposal... especially when other economists don't have such a rosy outlook.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2010/09/will-a-payroll-tax-cut-stimulate-the-economy.html?cid=6a00d83451b33869e2013486d36e5c970c

[ProSense]

9. "September 03, 2010"

Irrelevant.

[Milo_Bloom]

11. The date of the analysis is meaningless

Since the proposal was made back then.


Sorry, you don't get to throw out opinions based on the date they are offered, when they are talking about the same issue.

I know that is inconvenient, but it is something you will have to learn to live with in your life.

[ProSense]

12. Yes, it's meaningless

because it's not about the deal made last weak.

May I quote Krugman, today:

The deal will, without question, give the economy a short-term boost.

Yeah, he still doesn't like the deal, but there is no denying that it will have a positive short-term impact.

[Milo_Bloom]

13. Yes, there is denying it.

Just as other economists have done.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/12/08/tax-cut-deal-not-effective-job-creation_n_793978.html

[ProSense]

16. From your link:

<...>

Gus Faucher, an economist at Moody's Analytics, acknowledged the tax cut deal wouldn't be the most effective remedy for the economy.

"Are there more effective ways of creating jobs than this program? Yes," Faucher said. "Are those enactable? I don't know."

To what degree the tax cut package would benefit the economy remains to be seen. As David Leonhardt noted in the New York Times, economists expect the legislation would reduce the unemployment rate--currently 9.8 percent--by up to a full percentage point over the coming year. A new report from Moody's Analytics forecasts that the tax plan would cut unemployment to 8.7 percent during 2011, predicting that without the legislation, the rate would be 9.8 percent.

<...>

[Milo_Bloom]

22. Way to strive for failure!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msongs]

14. the 99ers are grateful they will get their unemployment checks extended...oh wait... nt

[harun]

15. Surprising, coming from Franken. I think he is off on this one.

[Pholus]

63. It's plain that there is nothing to be done at this point since the back room dealing is done.

[sciencewins]

17. The Next 2 Years will Likely Be Similar in Getting Republican Compromises.

I expect Social Sec. to be cut some in the next two years

[RBInMaine]

18. So ultra-lefters, is this liberal hero "caving and capitulating" too?

[frazzled]

30. I think we are mistaken when we call people

who take these kinds of hard lines "ultra lefters." I consider myself a proud member of the left, and I do not share these kinds of views. I don't think people who focus solely on deficit reduction (a right-wing concern, never a progressive one), to the exclusion of aid to the uninsured, extension of the earned-income credit, etc., are leftists. I don't think people who oppose a child nutrition program (on the specious argument that 2% of food stamp assistance, which has doubled over the last two years, from $38B to $68B, may be reduced four years from now) are leftists. I don't think people who think that a government mandate is an abrogation of personal rights and side with a conservative judge who was on the take from right-wing politicians are leftists.

I think they are something else. I haven't quite decided what yet. Some are libertarians. Some are just anti-government. Some are proto-anarchists. (All of these things are okay, but they should be identified correctly.) Some here may well be shills sowing discord. But I wouldn't call this kind of thinking leftist.

[Dawgs]

45. Damn right he is... it's pathetic.

:(

[RBInMaine]

48. I'd say your views are just a bit outside the mainstream on this one.

[Ikonoklast]

56. We measure those kinds of distances in 'miles', not 'inches'.

You are being diplomatic.

[treestar]

47. +1

[Jakes Progress]

19. So you agree with Franken about not liking how Obama did this?

We could have a first here.

[vaberella]

54. Obama didn't like doing it either. But Congress sat on it's ass not doing anything.

Why because they couldn't decide if they were for or against extending and Obama wanted to make sure that the American people got something done before the new conservative House fucked shit up even more and the American people got screwed.

[Jakes Progress]

57. Wasn't the question I asked.

And not at all what was said in the article quoted.

But I can ask you too. Do you like the way Obama made this deal?

[vaberella]

60. Wasn't your question answered when I said in response, "either".

I don't get your point. To be honest, in all that was being done and failed--or not done by Congress. Or all the stonewalling by a fairly inept Congress. Yeah, I actually like and tolerate the deal, otherwise----We'd all be shit out of luck. People on DU act as though the tax cuts for the middle class is in some way mutually exclusive from the Bush tax cuts. So we can keep the tax breaks on the middle class but fortunately drop the ones for the rich when they expire. Congress tried voting on that measure like...twice. And they twice failed and we all know that when Jan comes around---there is no chance in hell we'll get any breaks for the poor. However, they are not mutually exclusive. That means one part of the bill goes out, everything goes out and in the end middle class and below will get even more screwed. When I'm seeing a Congress that is slow on getting shit done for the American people...but a President who recognizes the political climate and tries to get shit done, because he has both Dems and Repubs he can't trust. Well, I can tell you now that I'm looking for benefits, b/c letting this drop and hoping it will be fixed later---is an impossible dream.

[Jakes Progress]

67. Didn't know if the either referred to you or Franken.

i would rather all the bush cuts expire. Then let congress attempt to reinstate them. My problem with the way it was handled was that it was all back room meetings and then a fait accompli. Who on earth thought that we could bargain this kind of thing from the republicans in secret. This is the kind of dealing that should have been done in public, lots of press conferences, maybe a nice little debate between boehner and Biden. We had 90% approval from the country. This we could have rallied. On this we had a chance. I don't like that the republicans are trumpeting how good a deal this is. If they thought they could get away with more in two months, they wouldn't be pressuring Dems to pass it now. We cower at what they might do in February. Well they know what they can do in February and they want it passed now. Badly. Surely that should give us pause. If the tax cuts drop, we have a slight chance of blaming them. The media will blame Democrats, but maybe we could make the case. Then the republicans would have to debate this stuff on the floor with a new bill for cutting taxes. I think they believe they would have a hard time passing such generous cuts for he rich in the spring. They know they would have problems with the estate tax gift that we gave them.

This is a bad deal. Hurt now if it doesn't pass. Hurt a lot more later if it does.

[Lint Head]

20. Not one politician in Washington has backbone.

Do we stand for something or do we fall for anything?

[jefferson_dem]

21. Way to do the right thing, Senator Franken.

I applaud you! :applause:

[Clio the Leo]

24. Opponents of this plan are running out of champions. nt

[Pholus]

33. Well, I guess we can all sit back and bask in the glory of the miracle. It had better be good! nt

[displacedvermoter]

40. You'll always have Laura Ingraham!

[Dawgs]

46. Uh, Franken doesn't support it.

Nice try though.

[keepfreespeechalive]

59. He isn't opposing it either

He's going along with Obama selling out the Democratic Party. As kentuck put it, "We gave the bully our sandwich and our milk but he let us keep our apple. We called it a compromise." Absolutely terrible deal that should have never been on the table. Al Franken is completely falling for it. He's playing into Obama's conservative frame that treats a tax increase on the poorest 1/3rd of Americans and a tax cut for the richest as an acceptable trade off for what has happened under both Democrats and Republicans during a recession: extended unemployment benifits. This is robbery and Sen. Franken is standing by while Obama and the Republicans pull off the heist.

[hulka38]

28. Franken also supported the Iraq War at its start.

So while he's a nice guy and a senator I like, he has a huge fuck up on his record in terms of judgment on the big, heavy pressure matters.

[EndElectoral]

29. Al, you're wrong. This bill hurts the families long term much more.

[mod mom]

36. I was very saddened that Sen Franken didn't support Bernie Sanders filibuster.

[tomm2thumbs]

38. good point - one of the few who you would think would

sadly did not

[Bluenorthwest]

37. I don't like how the President made the deal either

And I hate seeing Al having to admit to voting 'reluctantly' for that which he does not really support. I wonder if the OP agrees with Franken, or just with the vote he is making against his best wishes.

[Phx_Dem]

39. I wonder if Glenn Olbermann will call him a Nazi appeaser? n.t

[BeyondGeography]

50. " A lot of people are unhappy that the President punted on first down, and I'm one of them."

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/collections/special/columns/polinaut/archive/2010/12/franken_says_ob.shtml

[alcibiades_mystery]

51. Pretty cowardly

So much for standing up for your convictions with your vote.

[vaberella]

55. Isn't he just. Fucking Minnesotian's over is the best plan of action. n/t

[Stoic]

61. Dear Al, Please don't call for another donation.

You're getting no more from me.

[JoePhilly]

64. The House and the Senate should have taken this up BEFORE THE MID-TERMS ...

If they had this fight when they needed to have it, Al, and the others would not now be complaining about "how the President made the deal."

The reality is that the House and Senate Democrats PUNTED and gave up what leverage they did have.

Now they feel sorry about it. Too late.

[WI_DEM]

68. Yet another DU hero voting for it.