None of us has a problem with what the President has accomplished for us.

[ClassWarrior]

Some of us have major problems with what he hasn't accomplished for us, and has barely even tried to accomplish for us using his bully pulpit.

The Public Option, repealing DADT, closing Guantanamo and ending the Billionaire Bailouts come to mind. Any others?

NGU.

[Dawgs]

1. Speak for yourself.

I have major problems with some of the things he's "accomplished" for the Republicans.

[ClassWarrior]

2. Thanks. Duly edited.

NGU.

[jefferson_dem]

9. "1. Did they make him a king? I must have missed that; when did it happen?"

:) http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=174557&mesg_id=174562

[zipplewrath]

3. Torture

No one is being prosecuted for torture.
Eliminating the tax cuts for millionaires.
Appointing an SC justice as far left as Roberts is to the right.
Ending Iraq
Ending Afghanistan

And there are some of the "accomplishments" about which I do have "a problem with".

Honoring Rick Warren
Declaring that he "had the backs" of the torturers.
Tripling the number of troops in Afghanistan.
Keeping troops in Iraq.
Creating a private Army in Iraq
Extending the tax cuts for millionaires.
Protecting the Bonuses for Bankers
Not finding a role for Howard Dean
Keeping Gates in as Sec Def
Appointing Patreaus.
Cadillac Taxes
Mandates
Advocating the mass firing of teachers.

[ClassWarrior]

10. Dang, how did I forget the military occupations? It's early.

NGU.

[BklnDem75]

4. This might help you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bully_pulpit

[lamp_shade]

5. Who's "us"?

[Ineeda]

6. To be fair, Re: Guantanamo

Obama was only three months in when the Senate voted 94-3 to deny him the funds to close Gitmo and bring the detainees into the United States for trial. He campaigned on it, but the Democrats and their 'friends on the other side of the aisle' wanted to make sure he understood the landscape (or swamp) he'd landed in. (applies to other changes he campaigned on, too.) I won't comment on your other points, but this is an easy one.

[ClassWarrior]

12. But again, if he had used his bully pulpit to try and change the narrative on...

...Gitmo, that vote could have been different. And even if it still failed, he would have begun to shape the discussion the way it should be shaped for the next Gitmo go-round.

NGU.

[zipplewrath]

19. To be fair

He's never actually tried to close it, ever. He has tried to move it to Illinois, but he still wants to detain people, indefinitely, without a trial.

[TheKentuckian]

26. Funds were not allotted for moving Gitmo north.

That has precious little with putting those that can be indicted on trial in civilian courts and releasing those they don't have enough evidence to go to trial.

If you believe Congress has prevented trials and has ordered indefinite detention then we have a Constitutional crisis.

[tekisui]

39. He refuses to charge and try the detainees, the physical structure is

not the issue.

[peace13]

7. If he messes with SS then I strongly disagree with you thread title.

I would say that Obama has done some good things for the American people.Agree there. Now since the 2010 election cycle I would say that he has left the middle class and lower class Americans in the dust. If he thinks that a 2% cut in payroll tax does anything but set a precedent for meddling in SS then he is not as smart as I thought he was. I have defended Obama and stuck with him but this last week has been very hard to stomach. Quite frankly when he left Bill in charge of the presser so as not to keep the first lady waiting....well I thought that was simply a disgusting scene. It appears that Obama has been in contact with the head alien and had his brains sucked out. New low in my opinion.

[whosinpower]

8. Biggest thing of all for me -

Republican ideology has more relevancy that democratic ones. Anyone who points that out is a pinko commie socialist PURIST.

Selling the payroll tax holiday as a democratic goal is an absolute slime filled betrayal.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

11. You honestly expected EVERYTHING to get done in 2 years?

What about Congress (esp. the Senate)? What about the Permanent Republican Filibuster? Why does Obama get ALL the blame?

As far the Public Option goes, Lieberman and the Blue Dogs in the SENATE killed THAT and/or any expansion of Medicare. President Obama ultimately decided to sign the HCR bill in spite of its absence because he felt that there were other important things in the bill that made it worth signing. The Democrats in Congress have made two attempts (so far) to legislatively repeal DADT (Obama's preferred option for getting rid of it) and will be making more attempts to do so, President Obama has attempted to close Gitmo but his hands have been tied by NIMBY members of Congress due to them blocking funding for any prisoner transfers and/or civilian trials (KSM), and, as far as the bailouts are concerned, TARP funds are being paid back to the government, are they not?
:shrug:

I'm disappointed about those things as well but I don't lay all the blame on President Obama for not getting them (yet) and it's not like his Presidency is already over either (or that there's not a good chance he will get another four years). IMHO what we really need to concentrate on is working for his re-election in 2012, as well as giving President Obama a less intransigent Congress (and one with fewer Republicans) to work with.

[ClassWarrior]

13. No, I honestly expected him to lay the rhetorical groundwork for getting things done...

...in four or eight years.

Instead, he adopts the RW narrative over and over and over again, then claims his hands are tied. No kidding.

NGU.

[Armstead]

16. Bingo.....Nail on head

[ClassWarrior]

17. As a matter of fact, I expected a lot WOULDN'T get done. But I expected...

...the president would at least fight for the things he said he'd fight for. That's still a win, because then he's begun to lay the groundwork for future success.

NGU.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

20. All I will say to that is that

He's been working a** off since he's been in- not only focusing on his legislative goals but also trying to govern over a fractious country with a rabid right-wing pit bull press, a Congress in which even some members of his party were openly hostile to him (i.e. Blue Dogs) and with a governmental and regulatory infrastructure that was massively neglected and under-performing its duties 8 years of Bushco neglect. Cut the man some slack! Whatever anybody thinks of him and whether or not we think he's doing things like WE think they should be done (and when), the man is undeniably busy working and, frankly, IMHO he has racked up quite an impressive list of accomplishments in spite of all of the aforementioned obstacles.

[ClassWarrior]

24. So you're saying you don't think he can handle the job?

I think he's extremely capable of handling the job. If I thought it was simply a case of him not having the bandwidth, I would cut him more slack. And I have been cutting him slack up till now. But now it's becoming clear that he's simply negligent in leading the national debate with Democratic values.

NGU.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

25. I'm (definitely) NOT saying he can't handle the job

but people are demanding certain results of him on a timetable that may not be realistic and/or practical given the circumstances and realities of the job. If he was floundering around not getting anything accomplished, then I might say, yeah, maybe he can't handle the job but that is clearly NOT the case. He is his own person playing his role as POTUS in the manner in which he sees fit, which is to attempt to represent all Americans (not just Democrats). We may sit here and throw stones at him for not being partisan enough or doing anything and everything that we think he should be doing as a *good* Democrat but he's clearly doing the job and being quite capable of it. When 2012 rolls around and he is up for re-election (assuming he is running, which AFAIK he plans to) that will be our opportunity to render your verdict on his Presidency and make a judgment as to whether he should continue as POTUS. You are entitled to your judgment as I am to mine but I'm going to make mine in 2012 instead of 2010.

[zipplewrath]

14. Opposite sides of the same coin

We have regular complaints about how folks will criticize anything the president does, to the ignorance of his accomplishments. Alternatively, there are folks who will ignore any failure if they can find any success. I'm curious how you come down on this phenomenon. Can it go both ways? Can one ignore too much, as well as criticize too much? Is there a phenomenon of "knee jerk defense"? Folks are forever creating long lists of Obama's accomplishments. If one created a long list of his short comings, would that be a legitimate comparison?

Because that is sorta what this was trying to be, at least in the beginning.

[That Guy 888]

30. I honestly expected him to make as much of a PUBLIC effort to get things done...

...as he did for the bush tax cuts. He publicly defended the blue dogs despite their constant torpedoing of things that he allegedly wants to accomplish. He stacks his panels and appointments with DLCers, blue dogs, and actual rethuglicans... Liberals quite clearly need not apply.

I think the President is a very smart man. He wouldn't do these things unless he wanted to.

[Enrique]

15. Employee Free Choice Act

dropped right after the election.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

18. As always, the problem is with the definition of "fighting", isn't it?

You want liberal Dubya. Most of us are thankful that didn't happen.

[ClassWarrior]

22. No, I'd be happy with Campaign Trail Obama. Remember when he...

...was getting bombarded with the Rev. Wright stuff, and he gave that absolutely stirring speech on the moral outlines of the race issue? Why couldn't he do the same thing on the deep moral implications of the issues enumerated in this thread?

NGU.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

27. I don't particularly remember that as a "fighting" for anything speech.

In fact, I'd argue that you've gotten exactly that kind of speech on most topics. Basically that there's a grain of merit to his "opponent" but he sees things differently and wants to move forward with healing/getting something done. He's done that on every big issue!

[ClassWarrior]

28. Exactly. It was a persuasive moral argument. I'm not asking him to be a raving lunatic...

I'm asking him to make the case. And while he has spoken on topics since then, he has not attempted to make a moral argument since then.

:shrug:

NGU.

[Nicholas D Wolfwood]

32. My point is that he HAS done exactly this on every major topic.

The problem is that when it came to health care, no one gave a shit about the moral argument. People don't care about the uninsured unless they themselves are uninsured. When it comes to taxes, by and large, people don't give a shit about other people's taxes - they care about their own. When it comes to the war, so long as it's not their sons or daughters, they don't care.

If anything I'd argue he's done exactly what you're asking him to do to a fault! Moral arguments are entirely ineffective. You have to put issues in terms of how it impacts each voter on a personal level. If you can't do that, you're losing the argument.

[ClassWarrior]

35. Please link to the transcripts. I don't remember having my heartstrings tugged...

...on any of those occasions. And I sure do remember the race speech. :shrug:

NGU.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

38. No, he hasn't. Here's what he has done...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/george-lakoff/untellable-truths_b_794832.html

NGU.

[treestar]

21. "has accomplished for us" sounds so passive

as if We the People have nothing to do but sit there and be serviced.

You simply prefer to dwell on the negative.

If you did that to yourself, think how unmotivated and depressed you'd be. There's so much you don't have in life.

[ClassWarrior]

23. Okay, so substitute "has accomplished for the people."

:shrug:

By the way, before you pick on someone else's grammar,it'd help to learn how to properly capitalize first.

NGU.

[mtnsnake]

29. The apologists aren't much different than Bush's voters when it comes to the big issues

like the war and taxes.

No one seems to give two shits about the war anymore because having tax breaks is so fucking vital all of a sudden. They think with their wallets. "I want my tax break and I want it now or I'm gonna have a fucking hissy fit!"

[Bluerthanblue]

34. I don't want a 'tax-break' and I DO want both wars ended yesterday- BUT

I know that what I 'want'- and what I can have aren't the same thing.

You'd probably class me as one of those "apologists" that you'd like to marginalize and dismiss- But I don't fit your pigeon hole, and I think you'd have a hard time finding many people that do-

I could give two shits about the tax-breaks. I am positive however, that there is no way in hell that the republicans will let them die quietly. They will make people suffer, they WILL stand firm and sacrifice any meaningful legislation holding the country hostage until they get what they want.

I'm personally pissed at the Dem's who sat on their arses and refused to address the estate taxes, and expiration of the Bush cuts till the very last minute, and when faced with a choice between bad and bad, suddenly become animated and enjoy posturing and pounding their chests in outrage-

Where is their outrage on ending these stupid wars? where is their outrage on the ensuring that the most vulnerable citizens do not go hungry and homeless? They get all fired up against extending the tax-cuts, where is this same 'fire' for the real issues?

The fuckin hissy fit- only seems to happen with THEM when reality hits home, and their inaction and impotence is laid bare.

:shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

37. That's EXACTLY the attitude that's the problem. "I know that what I 'want'..."

"...and what I can have aren't the same thing."

So I gather that you're saying we shouldn't even BOTHER to try to get what we want. You want us to just accept failure and defeat at the outset. Correct? That's what Obama does.

Thank you for illustrating this so well.

NGU.

[impik]

31. I have a lot of problems with what he hasn't accomplished in two years

under the most difficult circumstances any president faces since FDR. For example: why there is not a world peace by now??? SELL-OUT!

[ClassWarrior]

33. It's not difficult for him to make an emotional argument, as he amply demonstrated...

...during the election. And as I'm sure he'll amply demonstrate during the next one.

:shrug:

Why do you feel a need to distort my point? Doesn't your point stand on its own honesty?

NGU.

[tekisui]

40. Wars without end, amen.