Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Unjust wars and unfair taxes

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:14 PM
Original message
Unjust wars and unfair taxes
Those were the two biggest issues on our platform and the reason we got back into the White House.

Now all of a sudden Bush's tax program is fair, and the war in Afghanistan is a just war and well worth escalating. Let's keep spending billions upon billions on wars we can't win. Makes a lot of sense.

What a difference a year or two makes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. It
wasn't all of a sudden:

Afghanistan: Obama and Biden will refocus American resources on the greatest threat to our security -- the resurgence of al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They will increase our troop levels in Afghanistan, press our allies in NATO to do the same, and dedicate more resources to revitalize Afghanistan’s economic development. Obama and Biden will demand the Afghan government do more, including cracking down on corruption and the illicit opium trade.

link


Also, middle class tax cuts, unemployment benefits are not "unfair."


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Funny how you were always the first one to whine about Hillary & how hawkish she was
IOW, pot kettle black.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Hillary?
What the hell does Hillary have to do with what Obama campaigned on?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Obama's campaign plan for Afghanistan has nothing to do with Hillary
Edited on Wed Dec-15-10 07:30 PM by ProSense
edited.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Fair enough
:)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. exactly, it is bush's plan not hillary's nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Life Long Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
8. The war(s) are worth ending
The ones handed to this administration. And witnessed through the Iraq war, this is exactly what this administration is doing.

This economy - nearly going into another great depression - was also handed to this administration. Unlike the previous administration, it was crazy to cut taxes when you just started two wars. In this administration most understand that cutting taxes isn't good for the deficit, but most also understand you need to weigh your options. Either the deficit takes a hit or the economy takes a hit. Most choose the deficit taking the hit and the economy taking the needed growth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
9. "I'm not opposed to war, I'm opposed to a dumb war."
Egads ... read a little. Here's the speech that made Obama known .... before the speech that made him famous....

Good afternoon. Let me begin by saying that although this has been billed as an anti-war rally, I stand before you as someone who is not opposed to war in all circumstances.

The Civil War was one of the bloodiest in history, and yet it was only through the crucible of the sword, the sacrifice of multitudes, that we could begin to perfect this union, and drive the scourge of slavery from our soil. I don’t oppose all wars.

My grandfather signed up for a war the day after Pearl Harbor was bombed, fought in Patton’s army. He saw the dead and dying across the fields of Europe; he heard the stories of fellow troops who first entered Auschwitz and Treblinka. He fought in the name of a larger freedom, part of that arsenal of democracy that triumphed over evil, and he did not fight in vain.

I don’t oppose all wars.

After September 11th, after witnessing the carnage and destruction, the dust and the tears, I supported this Administration’s pledge to hunt down and root out those who would slaughter innocents in the name of intolerance, and I would willingly take up arms myself to prevent such a tragedy from happening again.

I don’t oppose all wars. And I know that in this crowd today, there is no shortage of patriots, or of patriotism. What I am opposed to is a dumb war. What I am opposed to is a rash war. What I am opposed to is the cynical attempt by Richard Perle and Paul Wolfowitz and other arm-chair, weekend warriors in this Administration to shove their own ideological agendas down our throats, irrespective of the costs in lives lost and in hardships borne.

What I am opposed to is the attempt by political hacks like Karl Rove to distract us from a rise in the uninsured, a rise in the poverty rate, a drop in the median income — to distract us from corporate scandals and a stock market that has just gone through the worst month since the Great Depression.

That’s what I’m opposed to. A dumb war. A rash war. A war based not on reason but on passion, not on principle but on politics.

Now let me be clear — I suffer no illusions about Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal man. A ruthless man. A man who butchers his own people to secure his own power. He has repeatedly defied UN resolutions, thwarted UN inspection teams, developed chemical and biological weapons, and coveted nuclear capacity.

He’s a bad guy. The world, and the Iraqi people, would be better off without him.

But I also know that Saddam poses no imminent and direct threat to the United States, or to his neighbors, that the Iraqi economy is in shambles, that the Iraqi military a fraction of its former strength, and that in concert with the international community he can be contained until, in the way of all petty dictators, he falls away into the dustbin of history.

I know that even a successful war against Iraq will require a US occupation of undetermined length, at undetermined cost, with undetermined consequences. I know that an invasion of Iraq without a clear rationale and without strong international support will only fan the flames of the Middle East, and encourage the worst, rather than best, impulses of the Arab world, and strengthen the recruitment arm of al-Qaeda.

I am not opposed to all wars. I’m opposed to dumb wars.

So for those of us who seek a more just and secure world for our children, let us send a clear message to the president today. You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s finish the fight with Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, through effective, coordinated intelligence, and a shutting down of the financial networks that support terrorism, and a homeland security program that involves more than color-coded warnings.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure that the UN inspectors can do their work, and that we vigorously enforce a non-proliferation treaty, and that former enemies and current allies like Russia safeguard and ultimately eliminate their stores of nuclear material, and that nations like Pakistan and India never use the terrible weapons already in their possession, and that the arms merchants in our own country stop feeding the countless wars that rage across the globe.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to make sure our so-called allies in the Middle East, the Saudis and the Egyptians, stop oppressing their own people, and suppressing dissent, and tolerating corruption and inequality, and mismanaging their economies so that their youth grow up without education, without prospects, without hope, the ready recruits of terrorist cells.

You want a fight, President Bush? Let’s fight to wean ourselves off Middle East oil, through an energy policy that doesn’t simply serve the interests of Exxon and Mobil.

Those are the battles that we need to fight. Those are the battles that we willingly join. The battles against ignorance and intolerance, corruption and greed, poverty and despair.

The consequences of war are dire, the sacrifices immeasurable. We may have occasion in our lifetime to once again rise up in defense of our freedom, and pay the wages of war. But we ought not — we will not — travel down that hellish path blindly. Nor should we allow those who would march off and pay the ultimate sacrifice, who would prove the full measure of devotion with their blood, to make such an awful sacrifice in vain.

~ Barack Obama 10/2/02

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Barack_Obama's_Iraq_Speech
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
10. All of a sudden? Obama f'ing campaigned on escalating in Afghanistan,
and I don't think anyone in the White House has claimed that the tax cuts on the wealthy are a good idea. They have, in fact, been quite adamant that they're only being included because the Republicans have taken hostages.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. No, not what Obama thinks. What so many Democrats think
"All of a sudden" everyone has changed their tunes. Not so long ago, the general sentiment among us was that the war was unjust and Bush's tax program was completely unfair and needed to be stopped. Now, how sooooo many people have completely changed their tunes. The fucking war is all but irrelevant and Bush's obscene tax cuts are the best thing since sliced bread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-15-10 10:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You'll forgive the confusion, given that your OP began by talking about Obama's campaign.
That said, have liberals actually been claiming Bush's tax cuts are a good idea? A necessary evil that must be endured, perhaps. The unfortunate result of a poker hand misplayed, perhaps. A good idea? Not so sure about that.

As regards Afghanistan? Things look to me the same way they looked back during the primaries: most people seem to think the war is generally a bad idea, though not to the same extent as before, and a significant minority believes the war is worth fighting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Apr 23rd 2024, 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion: Presidency Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC