Is Obama About to Sell Us Out Social Security?

[ProudDad]

"Obama has signaled that he might include Social Security cuts as part of a grand deficit-reduction deal. If that occurs, expect civil war among the Democrats."

"If you think the Democratic base is mad at Obama now for making a craven deal with Republicans that continues tax breaks for the richest Americans and adds new ones for their heirs through a big cut in the estate tax, just wait a few weeks until Obama caves on Social Security.

"How will this occur? The deficit commission appointed by the President has called for an increase in the retirement age, as well as other cuts in benefits over time. And the deal that Obama made with the Republicans just gave deficit hawks new ammunition by increasing the projected deficit by nearly $900 billion over a decade. Social Security will be in the cross-hairs."

Too late...!!!

http://www.alternet.org/economy/149166/is_obama_about_to_sell_us_out_social_security_the_political_fallout_would_be_devastating

[ProudDad]

1. More

The only real stimulus is the temporary cut in Social Security taxes, the extension of unemployment insurance plus a few minor tax breaks for regular people, totaling about $200 billion. That's a little more than one percent of a $15 trillion economy. Pretty puny, certainly a lot smaller than the inadequate stimulus of February 2009 when the recession was only beginning to deepen.

Except for the extension of unemployment insurance, which should be done out of common decency, most of the "stimulus" is pure Republican ideology -- stimulate the economy by cutting taxes. If that had worked, the huge tax cuts of the Bush years would have kept the economy out of recession.

There is not a nickel of public investment or direct job creation in this proposed deal. And it is well recognized by economists that in a recession, temporary tax cuts, especially tax cuts tilted to the rich, provide far less bang for the buck than public investment.

[snot]

30. Again, they are looting funds for our future retirement to pay bonuses to bankers now.

[polichick]

2. Of course he's going to sell out S.S. - he always signals and he has signaled this...

I'm not sure we'll see much of a fight though - how much of a fight is there about removing the payroll tax holiday from the bill?

[Nite Owl]

4. Oh there will be a rukus

then nothing will come of it because something else will have been held hostage to some deal and it will be the best he can do. His being a leader is not something we can depend on and the GOP knows that. The congressional dems will do as they are told.

[polichick]

6. Our "leaders" in the WH and in Congress prove themselves irrelevant...

...every day - we might as well have one party. (Maybe we've only had one party for quite a while and it's just becoming obvious.)

[damntexdem]

3. Expect the shattering of the Dem Party in that case.

And unless such cuts are stopped, it will be goodbye Dem Party for me.

[polichick]

5. I agree that people will leave the party, but I don't think we'll see...

...much fight from elected Dems. They could be fighting the payroll tax holiday now.

[Deep13]

7. I guess I thought he already sold us out on SS. nt

[golfguru]

8. He may not have a choice to curtail SS

With budget deficits growing and social security in imbalance with
the baby boomers starting to retire, the situation looks grim.

With Afghan quagmire showing no end in sight, and our troops stationed
in 2 dozen countries, the budget is in dire straits. Why the hell do we
need troops in Germany? I thought Germany is stable and secure & democratic.

[polichick]

9. Not counting the two on-going wars, we have almost 800 bases around the world...

...according to Chalmers Johnson in his new book, Dismantling The Empire. Crazy!

[golfguru]

11. That is simply crazy...we can no longer afford 800 bases

around the world and pay their expense by borrowing more
money from China & others. This debt being accumulated will not
just disappear. We will be paying INTEREST every friggin year
until doomsday since there is no surplus to pay off the principal.

This is simple and straightforward rape of younger generations to come.

[eridani]

38. +1000

However, Soc Sec was NOT in trouble until this fucking FICA break.

[ProudDad]

12. You're absolutely right

that the largest drain is the Permanent War Economy(tm)...

You are incorrect about S.S. though... It was fully funded until 2037...

The boomers were taken care of when the percentages were adjusted in the early 1980s...

Those are the percentages that Obama just sold us out on...

JUST raising the cap a bit would have funded it until 2075...

[golfguru]

13. There are all kinds of numbers floating around for SS

The proposed 2% tax holiday certainly affects SS account, does it not?
And all projections are based on level of future employment. Which geniuses
predicted 9.8% unemployment in November 2010 back in 2007? No one! Zip! Zero! Nada!

Therefore the projections all the way upto 2037 are as hollow as a 99'ers savings
account balance.

[daa]

15. Social security is still in surplus

get the fuck out of Afghan today.

[golfguru]

23. 2010 was the first year in which payouts exceeded inflows

At least that is what I read somewhere. Future projections going
forward 5-10-15-20 years are meaningless since all depends on how
many are actually employed and contributing into Social Security.
And the lockbox Al Gore talked about never took place. All of the Social
Security surplus so far is a bunch of IOU's from the US Treasury and has
been already spent.

I am sure you are well aware the US Treasury is $13 Trillion in debt.
How many geniuses in 2007 predicted 9.8% unemployment in November 2010?
I don't know of any.

And yes, stop the Afghan war in 2011 and close all 800 bases around the
world. We can not play world policeman on borrowed money from China.

[daa]

31. Maybe you have had you head in the sand

The increase in the debt is not due to Obama or the dems. The debt comes from the deficit. The deficit the last two years has been two unfunded wars, unfunded tax cuts by Bush, and less money to the treasury because of the depression. Now use you head and think. Is cutting social security the answer? Hum come on. Or it the answer to reverse the tax cuts for the rich, reverse spending on wars and maybe create some jobs some workers begin to pay taxes again. 20 million unemployed are not paying taxes, put them to work.

[golfguru]

35. Come on pal do not put words in my mouth

Where did you read in my post that debt increase is due to Obama?
Or do you have a problem seeing stuff which is'nt there?

The debt started to balloon during Reagan when the budget tripled in 8 years
when we had a democratic congress. Bill Clinton has the best record on deficits
in recent years with a GOP congress for 6 years.

Bush-43 caved in to the Wall Street bank bailout which was idiotic.
The deficits have continued to grow under Obama and there is no end
in sight. But he can not be blamed entirely because without more bank
bailouts and $800B Stimulus there was fear of a depression.
Moody's is talking about downgrading US Treasuries. That is extremely serious.

What needs to be done now is cut military budget significantly and increase
taxes on every person who does not create or maintain jobs. But that will not
be enough. All of the recommendations made by Obama's debt reduction commission
will have to be looked at also.

[Lasher]

36. Only half the Congress was Democratic during Saint Ronnie's first 6 years

Reagan's debt cannot be blamed on Congressional Democrats of the time. And credit for Clinton's fiscal success cannot be claimed by the GOP Congress that existed during his last 6 years.

[golfguru]

51. Both congress and president are responsible for every budget

Both must sign on to it. President can't spend a penny without
congress authorization. And congress can't spend it until president
signs it.

[Lasher]

53. Actually Congress can spend it witout the President's signature.

But this is a pointless recital of obvious Constitutional roles of the Executive and Legislative branches - a standard feature of many attempts to shift blame away from Saint Ronnie on account of his fiscal disaster, or to bestow Clinton's deserved credit on undeserving Republicans who controlled Congress during his last 6 years.

[daa]

48. All of the recommendations made by Obama's debt reduction commission

Oh, right, let's eliminate the corporate tax and cut taxes for the rich even more, and screw the little guy lots more.

Nobody put words in your mouth, you said it. I did not even mention that Obama is adding 900 Billion with his tax extension for the rich.

Social security is not the problem. The only reason Medicare and Medicaid is a problem is because instead of passing universal care that 2/3 of the people supported, Obama and the dems passed the insurance and drug company profit preservation act. And with rates up 20% for many don't bother telling me how good insurance reform is.

[golfguru]

50. Again you are doing the same thing!

I am all for increasing taxes on the rich....but only those rich
who do not directly employ other people. You want more jobs or less jobs?
Tax the CEO's, Hollywood people, sports figures and stock traders. None of
them directly employ any one. But the small businessman running a heating
and cooling company employs 25 people, give him a tax credit for each employee.

Corporate taxes are 100% passed on to the consumers and stock holders.
Every single corporation is owned by individuals at the end of food chain.
It is much better to tax those individuals than the corporation because
by taxing the corporation you penalize every consumer, every employee, every
small stock holders.

For example look at General Motors. There are individuals who own millions of
shares of GM and many many others who own a hundred or less. Let the million
share owners pay higher tax on their GM dividends, not all the lowly joe-6-packs.

[Mimosa]

25. ^ Amen to above! ^ Odd how we always have enogh money for wars.

And it's beginning to look like somebody wants a state of endless wars.

Older citizens just aren't USEFUL for that enterprise, are they?

[eridani]

37. There IS no goddam fucking imbalance! Boomers prepaid their retirement

WHY, WHY do we have to keep tolerating sociopathic REPUKE nonsense on this board? Of course cutting FICA is going to cause a problem that was not there before.

Like you, I really do wish we would give up on this imperial crap, but it seems as unlikely as Obama defending Social Security.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[thelordofhell]

14. And when the cap gets raised in 2012

Will you still think Social Security is being dismantled?

[polichick]

21. Who's going to raise the cap? nt

[eridani]

39. That would be fine, provided that the retirement ages remained unchanged n/t

[Dawgs]

45. "And when the cap gets raised in 2012"

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[jenmito]

16. From alternet.

Anything to find something negative to post about Obama. :eyes: At least THIS anti-Obama thread got 0 recs.

[displacedvermoter]

18. Not as good a cite as Ingraham and Krotchhammer who were

getting posted here for their support of the Obama tax deal. But if it is in praise of the great man,then it is all good.

[jenmito]

19. Wrong.

But since you mentioned it, how do you feel about Ed Schultz agreeing with Sarah Palin on her criticism of Obama and his tax compromise? :eyes:

[displacedvermoter]

24. Are you denying that people here are using Ingraham and

Krotchhammer to point out how wise Obama's deal is?

I have no idea what Ed Schultz said, BTW. Don't care really. I wouldn't cite Sarah Palin to support my political opininons any more than I would Ingraham or the Krtoch Man, or beetwasher or you for that matter.

[eridani]

40. Same way I feel about the unionbusting Andrew Carnegie, who

--also despised the imperial state he could see beginning with the war of conquest against the Phillipines. I like it that he offered to buy the place outright for $100 million, but that is still no goddam excuse for his murderous campaign against unions.

[Mimosa]

26. I recced it. It is NOT 'anti-Obama'.

We shall see what Obama's intentions are Re: Social Security.

IMO, he didn't help us so much on health care reform. he helped the INSURANCE and pharma corporations.

WE do not know what Obama will do with Social Security, do we?

[Smashcut]

54. That's right! It's not whitehouse.gov.

Hence, IMMEDIATELY suspect. :freak:

[Whisp]

17. NEXT!!!

now that Obama may not be the garantuan homophobe and DADT has a chance! *gasp* and there is a good possibility that the tax cuts for the middle income will stick, and the much needed unemployment extension...

next on the fabrication and sky is falling block has to be SS. until that too is debunked.

for anyone who cares to see the pattern is quite evident here

[polichick]

20. "The pattern is quite evident" - but it's not even close to your read. nt

[TheKentuckian]

22. It doesn't matter what the intent is because defunding Social Security will cause expected issues

There is no reasonable expectation of getting that tax raised nor raising the cap since the TeaPubliKlans will frame either as a tax increase.

[Mimosa]

27. Sometimes somebody has to stand up to the tea Party liars, right?

The president and his administration could use the bully public if they so chose.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

28. Yes, after he forces us to convert to Islam.

Wait, what?

[ProudDad]

29. Kick so the rational folk get a chance to read the actual article...! (n/t)

[whosinpower]

32. Yes he will

And the proof is simply this - they are selling the payroll tax holiday as a democrat gain.

If he doesn't have the cojoines to fight against extending tax cuts to the wealthy.....
If he doesn't have the cojoines to fight against the estate tax holiday.....

He will never fight to increase the payroll tax come 2012.
You know it, Proud Dad.
I know it.
The die hard Obamafans will come up with yet another excuse how republican principles are vital, and democratic ones are not important.

I will not be surprised at all if the White House dusts off George W. Bush' idea of privatizing Social Security. Wait and see in 2011. His advisors have already recommended that.

[dflprincess]

33. His anti-Social Security appointments to his deficit commission didn't work

so he'll try it this way.

[ProudDad]

34. Oh, they worked all right...

The Cat Fud Commission just wrote the legislative agenda for the new republican House...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Dad, You're My Hero. You Never Sleep. I Have A Gift For You

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njG7p6CSbCU

[Fruittree]

42. I just read this on Huffington Post...thought it might be of interest

It's kind of long but I'd be curious what people think..

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marshall-auerback/cut-the-payroll-tax-to-sa_b_797757.html

[DemocratSinceBirth]

43. I Read It

As long as there is broad popular support for SS it will be financially supported. When's the last time a politician did something unpopular. My take seems to be supported by the fact that the biggest expansion of an existing entitlement was done by a Republican president and Congress...

[BrklynLiberal]

44. It is already a done deal.

I cannot imagine voting for that man again..ever..for anything.
I am more pissed at his administration than I was Dimson's.
I never expected better from pres shit-for- brains.

With Obama, I feel like I was scammed by a grifter.

I am totally numb....

[pnorman]

46. MUCH more important issue! "Is Obama a secret Muslin?"

n/t

[opihimoimoi]

47. SS?.....Its been the GOPers Target for decades...they are squeezing Obama who appears to be using

chess moves.....only time will tell

[dflprincess]

52. The only chess moves he makes are the ones where the pawns are sacrificed. n/t

[opihimoimoi]

55. BS...thats so unpatriotic.

[obxhead]

49. Yes. Add 1 trillion to the deficit to fund yachts for the rich

then steal the money to pay for it from the poor saps that need SS to survive their final years.

Way to go!!! Rah Rah Obama!!!

[ElsewheresDaughter]

56. He already has

[johnlucas]

57. Yes

Yes.
He is.

And that might be a prime time for the Revolution to get its momentum.
Take away this social safety net & watch people become alert.
Sadly, human beings are not designed to care about much anything that doesn't directly affect them.
The Revolution was postponed when Frankie Roosevelt put together that New Deal.
He HAD to or else there would have been no United States of America eventually.

Tamper with that & watch all kinds of hell break loose.
I don't put nothing past Obama anymore.
I just wish I wasn't foolish enough to fall for that marketing 2 years ago. You learn with age and experience.
John Lucas