It's really sad seeing guys like Sherrod Brown having to bite their tongues and be good soldiers

[Armstead]

He got screwed, More importantly his principles got screwed.

And yet -- listen up "centrists" and "pragmatists -- he remains a loyal Democrat, after being kicked in the teeth. He goes on Keith Olberman and tried to put the best face on what is obviously a complete disappointment.

Same with Tom Harkin last week. And several others.

And I'm sure we'll see more Democrats who fought hard for actual health care reform being trotted out before the cameras trying to put the best face on this -- even though they AND WE were hung out to dry.

Jay Rockefeller is probably kicking the walls in his house right now, but will also be a good soldier in public.

My gut wishes they'd all rebel, and do a reverse Lieberman and kill this and force it back to the drawing board.

My head says it would be a futile gesture.

Either way it makes me really sad.

[Captain Hilts]

1. That IS frustrating. nt

[polichick]

2. I wish they'd all tell the truth and let the chips fall where they may. nt

[Blasphemer]

4. Yes, that would be far more honorable. nt

[DJ13]

3. As long as they put party ahead of principles we all lose

[Armstead]

5. At some point they figure they got to cut their losses I guess

But right now, my feeling about the structure of the Democrats is "Why Bother?"

[Tansy_Gold]

8. Cut their losses? What losses? They haven't lost a fucking thing

WE have.




TG

[Armstead]

10. Give some of them credit. who did put their heart into the fight

Many of them I'd happily tell to fuck off.

But the ones who really did fight hard did believe in it and fought for it. They got screwed just as much as we did, even if they aren't personally affected.

[OhioBlue]

15. I don't think they are puting party ahead of principles

I think the reason that people like Sherrod are easier to push around then a blue dog or Republican is b/c Sherrod honestly CARES about people. He sees half a loaf as better than nothing. He sees the political reality of not being able to get a great bill and help everyone, but doesn't want to sacrifice the people that could be helped.

[DJ13]

17. Then he has no spine?

I understand politics is a balance, but wheres the balance in whats left of this "reform"?

An instant 30 million new captives to the insurance industry, and the trade off was no pre existing condition?

But what market forces in this bill prevents higher rates on those with pre existing conditions?

Did these Senators forget this wasnt an insurance reform (or corporate welfare) bill, that the goal was supposed to be affordable coverage so everyone could get health care that doesnt have it now?

[Armstead]

18. I think he does see it as half a loaf -- I disagree but I don't think he's spineless

[OhioBlue]

20. He definitely has spine

While affordable coverage for EVERYONE is definitely the goal.. it might also mean that this bill is one step toward the goal. They still haven't reconciled the House and Senate version so whatever passes in the Senate still goes to committee. After this bill.. we still wait for a final version.

Then, they have to work toward future bills to make it better. It seems as tho it is either that or nothing. The lobbyists, the insurance money, the teabagging scare tactics, the scared blue dogs... what the hell do you do? Work at it bit by bit and get what you can when you can or throw up your hands and pass nothing?

But - I do agree.. if they're passing this piece by piece they need to make sure there are no mandates.

[movonne]

6. They can twist the arms of the progressives ... but isn't it strange

they can't twist the arms of the blue dogs and some of the repugs... we dems have been set up...their are a lot of dems we can blame but I put rahm right up front...

[Berry Cool]

7. It breaks my heart. He has to say stuff like "OK, it won't have single payer,

it won't have any kind of public option and it won't even have a Medicare buy-in, but it'll still have things it wouldn't have had if activists in Shelby and Ashtabula and whatnot hadn't insisted on them."

Yeah, sure, Sherrod. Then next week Joe Lieberman will insist he will filibuster unless you get rid of all those things the activists in Shelby and Ashtabula and whatnot insisted on. And you will roll over and concede, and send it to the president, and by that time what will be left in it? Nothing except maybe "Smile and use a really nice pen, Barack, it'll look good in the pictures." *sigh*

[dflprincess]

9. None of them have to do that

If they're choosing between party and principle, then they need to choose principle. They should be standing up for the people they supposedly represent, not the insurance companies.

[Armstead]

11. I agree in principle and have been arguing that for months -- But what the hell good would it do?

They have been left out in the cold by the "leadership" of the party.

At some point, a loss is a loss.

[dflprincess]

13. Then it's time to go down fighting

We're better off if this scam doesn't pass and they should make it clear they will vote against it.

[Armstead]

14. Maybe so....Either way it's a lose/lose situation

[Tansy_Gold]

16. then lose with dignity, go down fighting, not whinig and kissing up

to those who beat you.

I really need to read Barbara Ehrenreich's new book.


The Dems need a lecture by Dr. Ehrenreich.



TG

[Armstead]

19. It's reallty depressing that the Dem leadership puts us in the same position as in the Bush years

"Go down fighting"

Remember when that was our only choice because the GOP had the White House and majority in Congress?

Now the Democrats have a majority in Congress and the White House, and we're still stuck with that Hobbsian Choice of fighting a lost cause or giving up?

It sucks. The election was supposed to change things. Ha.

[WillyT]

12. Yep... You Could Tell By The Look On His Face...

I wonder how he's feeling about Joe Lieberman tonight.

:shrug:

[mkultra]

21. he caught spinlessness desease from OBama

hes liek an illness that has spread through government. A cancer.

[IndianaGreen]

22. Sherrod Brown is a good guy being forced to accept Petain's surrender

and we don't have a DeGaulle.

[Armstead]

23. I'd almost like to see Bernie Sanders do a reverse Lieberman

"If you take out the public option (or Medicare buy-in) then I'm voting to block this bill."

He won't but....

[BlueIdaho]

24. How much lower can these meatheads drag our expectations?

[jefferson_dem]

25. I agree.

I love Sherrod - he is the genuine article.

He is a principled fighter but also a loyal Democrat, who knows when it's time to take what we can get...even when it's sucks when compared to what we need.

[emulatorloo]

26. Can they come up with a way to save this? Kos diary suggests pass the bill, then budget reconciliati

to get medicare buy in etc

I don't know if it would work or not:

***HCR IS SOLVED!!! PASS THE REFORM BILL NOW-- RECONCILE A MEDICARE "BUY-IN" IN JANUARY***

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x57970

It really makes me said to hear people call Sherrod Brown and the others "spineless".

[maryinthemorn]

27. Sherrod Brown is a co-sponser of the Sanders Amendment which is up

today (single payer). see this....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x57848

[BeyondGeography]

28. There's much more good than bad in the bill, it's still a net gain for millions of people

and, as usual in America, it's not quite what we need to do to address the problem because money is in the way.

Brown also realizes we need to move on politically and focus on the economy or the 2010 elections will kill any further attempts at progress.