Wow! The Obama haters on with O'Donnell can't give him any credit

[JamesA1102]

for everything that he has accomplished. These people have on credibility left.

[Pirate Smile]

1. Gawd, they are horrible. Ugghh. That is why they have no credibility.

If you can at least recognize some good stuff then your complaints about the bad stuff actually ring true - otherwise they are just garbage.

[JamesA1102]

2. Does anyone take Jane Hamsher seriously anymore? nt

[Pirate Smile]

4. I can't imagine why anyone would.

[vaberella]

14. She was on the O'Donnell show saying he would never get it done during the lame duck.

This chick is a clown and I knew she wouldn't eat crow. She hates the guy.

[Clio the Leo]

65. lol but look on the bright side...

... your Twitter play by play (I was behind and still watching Rachel) of the whole scene keep me very entertained. I could SEE The steam coming out of your ears .... or fingers .... or somewhere. lol

[Pirate Smile]

72. I couldn't shut up about it.

:)

I knew it was coming too - because The Last Word tweeted that panel line-up.

I usually just mute or turn the channel but it was a good day and I was hoping for some basic recognition of that. That Hedges-asshole is so bad that he sometimes causes left-wing critics to start defending President Obama because he is so ridiculous (of course, that wouldn't include Hamsher who would never do such a thing). I bet he posted(posts?) on DU.

[Clio the Leo]

74. Well, he certainly doesn't spend his time...

.... coming up with creative book titles does he? Hates the President .... but not enough to make a dime or two off of him.

[butterfly77]

100. They were on cnn discussing how..

the President didn't have enough experience to be President,as though any of them did especially bush,he couldn't even read a teleprompter.

David Gergen had the nerve to say that the President needed to do more to prove to white men that he is on their side...

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tularetom]

3. Please identify these miscreants for those of us who aren't watching.

Tenk yew.

[JamesA1102]

6. One is Jane Hamsher.

The other is Roger Hodge.

[tularetom]

11. Thanks - I went and turned it on in time to see Hodge

I missed Hamsher but Hodge did seem to have a rather sour outlook for the future progressive accomplishments of the Obama administration. He appeared to be a thoroughly unpleasant individual.

I knew there was a reason I avoided that show.

[emulatorloo]

31. O'Donnell usually straightens them out with the facts

after giving them enough rope to hang themselves.

[JamesA1102]

48. True.

Hodge didn't know the tax rate on the lowest bracket and how much it would go up if the tax cuts expired. O'Donnell nailed him on it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

114. No respect for the institutional impediments that liberal Democrats in the House

faced. I don't get this. These people are political commentators. They act as if they have no clue about how the U.S. Constitution works. None.

I don't get it. If you have a broken Senate due to Republican obstruction, then yes, progressives can't expect to get anything done.

If you have a midterm and not enough Democrats come out to vote, of course, future progressive accomplishments are going to be hampered.

We spend a lot of time on DU pointing fingers. The bottom line is that Democrats simply did not turn out enough votes. So what we got instead are MORE Republicans--a good chunk of which are Teabaggers--and not enough Democrats to affect change.

This is reality. These are the facts. It is not Obama's fault that not enough Democrats voted and thus we got more Republicans in Congress. Of course the future looks bleeker. The president is now forced to deal with MORE Republicans rather than less.

[dennis4868]

5. Two people on the panel are giving Obama.....

no credit and the other 2 on the panel are giving him credit and completely understand why Obama had to compromise on the tax deal....Jane Hamsher never takes into consideration of the fillubuster and thinks if Obama uses his bully pulpit the repubs will simply cave into Obama because they care about what the people think?

[JamesA1102]

7. Jane Hamsher just hates the President and will never give him

any credit for anything.

[dennis4868]

9. That's right...

why bother having her on the show...you know what she is going to say before she talks....also, the other guy on the panel (Roger Stone?) is even crazier....

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojorabbit]

81. I do think they care some about what people think

I think the uproar over the 911 bill caused them to rethink their position. I do think if the bully pulpit is used it can make a difference.

[MH1]

89. I think that only works when there's a VERY stark contrast

between republican behavior (e.g. blocking the first responders bill) and their previous rhetoric (9/11!! 9/11!! heroes!! ...)

I think it works less well where the republicans' behavior can be sold as consistent with their prior rhetoric (even when outright lies are involved, if it sells). Example: health care bill = socialism.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

111. How many of us have tried to explain this over and over on DU and get nowhere?

They think that Obama should defeat the Republicans by making speeches.

How ridiculous and naive!

[FrenchieCat]

8. It was disgusting!

[jenmito]

10. Yup. They might as well be Hannity and Coulter sitting there spouting their BS. n/t

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hello_Kitty]

25. This is a Center Right(TM) country, by God! eom

[eleny]

13. Jane Hamsher made an excellent point when she said...

.... that what passed - the repeal of DADT, the 9/11 Responders Bill, the Food Safety Bill are liberal ideas supported by the majority of Americans. Those positions represent the middle. Therefore America is not conservative but more liberal.

Hamsher asserted that Obama didn't want to move forward on the repeal of DADT and the 9/11 Responders Bill but only wanted to be proactive on the START Treaty. The White House supposedly made phone calls about START and not the other issues.

The other "hater" said that Obama is planning to roll out austerity measures at the SOTU address next month to get a jump on the Republicans. Liberals worry that Social Security will be under the gun.

So please save your "haters" hyperbole for the Republican's attitude about the president. Leftists have good reason to worry about what our president will do to weaken New Deal advances in order to win the next election.

[Hello_Kitty]

17. Also, the uncritical acceptance of everything O'Donnell, Klein, and Wolffe said is misguided

Wolffe sat there saying $800bn of $900bn added to the budget was what the Dems wanted. Uh, what? O'Donnnell was quick to pivot to DADT so that the "haters" didn't have a chance to push back.

I do give Larry credit for having critics from the Left on so they can make their points.

[eleny]

88. Full disclosure of what all was said really makes for a more interesting thread!

I was surprised that O'Donnell didn't argue the points with them. Maybe he's "gun shy" after he blew his top that first time.

Btw, sorry for the delay in responding. I posted my reply and then my oven buzzer went off. Lots of Christmas baking going on here.

Oh, btw Part 2. On Rachel's program last night Melissa Harris-Lacewell also made an interesting comment. She said that we push and push from the left over the decades. And then when there are achievements we say, "Thanks you, Mr. President". But she seemed exasperated and rightfully so at how slowly our nation moves forward. She even alluded to a conversation she had with a friend or colleague who asked her if Obama was Booker T. Washington. I gasped at that since I wanted to ask that question here at DU early last week and dared not since it's too volatile. Even Mellissa H-L said she gasped at the question. Given how slow we do make progress I'm even more in awe of the 9/11 responders and gay activists who, as Hamsher said, never gave up and wouldn't take no for an answer.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

113. Progress IS slow and Melissa H-L is keenly aware of this as a historian

and a noted political scientist. She knows damn well as a scholar of African American history and politics that we didn't gain our civil rights overnight.

Progress IS slow, but so many on the left--and I'm one of them--cannot except that fact.

Everything that this Congress has been faced with in terms of the Senate filibusters. All the hateful rhetoric coming from that side and targeted at the President, and yet, it has been one of the most productive--AND PROGRESSIVE--Congress's on record.

Two years! Two years is all they get?

There's absolutely no respect for history or reality in these Obama haterade posts.

[FrenchieCat]

18. The other "hater" on the TV said THAT IT WAS RUMORED......

that Obama is planning to roll out austerity measures.

That's how LOWLIFED it got. Folks who are supposed to be hepful,
passing on rumors on national television as though they are fact.

Treating and discussing Rumors as though facts is EXACTLY
what REPUBLICANS are good for, and do. We don't need those calling
themselves the Left to do it too, if it is simply wrong.
I've noticed too, Folks are doing here as well......
and there's an agenda behind that....
and this week of all weeks, it is easy to see who is reasonable amongs us,
and who will stop at nothing if they can, to help see Democrats lose it all.

[vaberella]

23. The left don't know shit FrenchieCat. But they like thinking the worst b/c they want to hate. n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

36. Down with the left!

No place for them in Center Right^TM America!

Not like the left has had any good ideas or anything. (40 hour work week, child labor laws, Social Security, Medicare, food stamps, womens' rights, civil rights, gay rights, legal birth control and abortion, opposition to needless wars, ADA Act, etc.) Nope, we really need to get rid of the Left. They don't know shit.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clio the Leo]

61. And all of those things you listed....

..... were signed into law with the help of Republicans.

Sure, the GOP of today is a bastion of the suckage and they have about three brain cells between them but we on the left do not have absolute control of government. We need to quit expecting the President to act like we do or we're just asking for aggravation.

[Hello_Kitty]

63. Who's "we"?

You are willing to capitulate from the get-go.

[Clio the Leo]

64. If "capitulation" was responsible for everything we've seen in the last two weeks...

.... then hey! Bring on the capitulation!

Capitulation got a years worth of un-insurance benefits.

Capitulation got a repeal of DADT.

Capitulation got a UNANIMOUS vote for a 911 first responders bill.

Capitulation got 71 votes for a nuclear arms reduction treaty.

Tell me what's wrong with capitulation again? ...... oh I know, Obama's going to privatize social security or something.


Some of us dont NEED our President to prove his manhood .... we need him to GET STUFF DONE.

[Hello_Kitty]

66. You had to bring up SS.

Let's see what happens in the next year with that. I hope I'm wrong, I really do, but I suspect the Sensible Centrists are going to call for cuts. Let's see how y'all react.

[Clio the Leo]

68. Serious question...

.... do you want Social Security kept in Gore's lockbox? Are you ok with some changes as long as it's not privatized? Do you think deficit cutting should come from everywhere else (assuming a high amount from ending all wars) and leave SS alone?

I'm turning off the snark button because I seriously want to know what you're thinking.

Personally, I'd like to see an increase in the retirement age phased in. I dont begrudge money to seniors, but at age 37, I'd like to get a little back of what I have paid in some day too.

[girl gone mad]

71. An increase in the retirement age..

is a right wing position.

[Hello_Kitty]

73. I'd support a raise on the income cap, but no cuts.

At this point there's no justification to raising the retirement age. There haven't been the major developments in medical science that would extend the lives of the janitors who, according to Paul Krugman, will be forced to work longer (with no concomitant expectation of longevity) than lawyers. Raising the retirement age is forcing poor people to work longer to support rich people, and then die before or shortly thereafter. If that situation changes, then by all means, adjust accordingly. But it hasn't so far.

(Then there's Medicare, which is the true third rail, and projected to cost MUCH more. The reason you don't hear much about cuts to that program (beyond some calls to shift costs onto users) is that the upper class wants that program to stay in place. Unless you are wealthy enough to self-insure (and very few people are) you don't want to incur the cost of your mother-in-law's care or your own. This is the really big deal, and the corporate cheap labor proponents of both parties don't seem too inclined to address it.)

[Clio the Leo]

75. Thank you for that response....

.... and at least it will give us something else to "fight" over right? :hug:

[Hello_Kitty]

78. Yes, indeed.

:hug:

[unapatriciated]

107. being 59 and working, paying taxes since I was 15 would like to see a little of what I paid in too..

So nice of you not to begrudge me monies I paid. Why is it some seem to forget we have been paying into SS and at a higher rate for years. Your statement ignores that little fact.
It is not YOUR money or MY money. It was a safety net set up for all.

http://www.justfacts.com/socialsecurity.basics.asp
<70> Publication number 05-10024: "Understanding the Benefits." United States Social Security Administration, May 2008. http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10024.html

The current Social Security system works like this: when you work, you pay taxes into Social Security. The tax money is used to pay benefits to:

• People who already have retired;
• People who are disabled;
• Survivors of workers who have died; and
• Dependents of beneficiaries.

The money you pay in taxes is not held in a personal account for you to use when you get benefits. Your taxes are being used right now to pay people who now are getting benefits. Any unused money goes to the Social Security trust funds, not a personal account with your name on it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

117. Gives liberals like myself a bad name. I am an unapologetic liberal

who is a pragmatist and realistic about what is likely or unlikely to get done given the current political climate. I understand that as much as I would like for this country to be a bit more liberal or progressive on some issues, the reality is that they are not. It's easy to forget that fact living in this Blue Bubble I call home in the D.C. area. But I grew up in Georgia and have lived all over the country. The bottom line is that while the culture is changing and future generations will be more tolerant and progressive, we don't live in that time now.

Many liberals/progressives simply cannot accept this fact.

[Clio the Leo]

59. lol must have spoke w/the same dude Defazio spoke to...

..... who said that .... heck, I dont even remember what he said.

Anyway, *I* heard that Obama invented Christmas! ...... it's just what I heard. And it's what I WANT to believe, so it's gotta be true, right?

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

115. DU is no different. All these threads about how Obama is going to cut social security.

No proof. No statements. No proclamations coming from the White House. Just pure conjecture on the part of the Obama haters on this message forum.

I don't know, FC. I'm getting to the point that I need to take a long break from this forum. Why have Fox News if all we have to do is come on DU and be exposed to a 24-7 Obama hate-fest.

We're not waiting for proof. We're not waiting for affirmative statements from the White House. We're just exploding over innuendo and what we *think* will happen.

People are saying that they'll never vote for Obama again because he made a statement about Vick? Really? What the fuck kind of stupid, ignorant shit is that?

Please forgive my language, but it's really driving up the wall how these people project onto ONE MAN what they want him to be. And when he doesn't live up to THEIR projection, they go all psycho on these boards and talk shows. I've never seen anything like this.

[Swede]

19. You and her must've missed Obama's State of the Union speech.

It was in all the papers. A quote from the January 27, 2010 speech.

“This year — this year, I will work with Congress and our military to finally repeal the law that denies gay Americans the right to serve the country they love because of who they are,” Obama said. “It’s the right thing to do.”

[jefferson_dem]

21. Hamsher is not shamefully ignorant... she flat out lies.

It's been verified by numerous "insiders" that Obama worked the phones ... hard ... in the past few days for ending DADT, aside from everything else he did during the lead-up to the vote. Of course, Hamsher's a hardcore "PUMA", but I'm starting to wonder what exactly she has against Obama. For real. I think I know but am not about to "go there". Not now at least.

[Clio the Leo]

58. lol Jeff's all fired up and ready to go!

Never seen this side of you! ;)

[Number23]

95. No please... go "there"

We all know it. Her plastering a pic of Lieberman in blackface. Her support for anyone with nasty things to say about either Obama, including Michelle. Teaming up with and encouraging others to team up with teabaggers.

No use hiding or pretending to not see what's right in front of our faces. Ms. Jane certainly isn't hiding.

[vaberella]

22. Do you honestly believe that Repubs voted b/c of polls?

For the past decade the American public has been saying that they don't care about gays in the military. For the past decade until today did it finally get done. Repubs were around then. Nothing got done. You act like the American public has leverage when it comes to Congress. If that was the case the PO would be there. Obama couldn't get a single vote on the PO and not to mention before the bill was even finished being written 5 Democrats came out and said they wouldn't support the bill if it had the PO. Which means, that no...the American public are not sufficient to move Congress. They're important, and the public opinion is noted---but if the President didn't stand by us and was pushing Congress to follow suit as much as possible, nothing would have gotten done.


Hamsher speaks as though it was an inevitability now. However, about 2 weeks ago on the exact same show she said that Obama had no chance in hell to have DADT repealed in Congress during the lame duck session. Now she acts like it would have happened anyway. She's a shit head, man. That's what she's about. Check out the video here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=573063&mesg_id=573063

The woman was spouting doom and gloom only and said it was an impossibility. Said he wasn't even a leader and he was weak--or as close to that. And now she marginalizes his role completely. And she asserted lots of crap. The woman is a piece of damned work. She knows nothing about Obama. Reid, Pelosi, even Collins said they got called by Obama and were in regular talks with Obama about DADT. Reid even said he was in the room with Obama when he was making calls to Senators. Shoot, Gates even stated that from day 1 of Obama being sworn in the first thing on the agenda was making sure to repeal DADT.

And you're going to take the word of a whack job who has no insider information. She couldn't get repeal done and the man who did--is getting attacked and you're supporting her comments. Ugh.

Liberals have been saying SS is under attack without any proof. You'd think we'd wait until we hear the full story from the side of the White House too and what they plan on doing to pay for this compromise before we jump in arms. Until we get all the details and the language then I say we rail. However, I'd rather get the facts before I lose hope. Most people lost hope in the President and more often than not he's come through. Especially during this session.

[emulatorloo]

34. Hamsher "asserts" lots of things. Lets not confuse her opinions with facts

[JamesA1102]

53. And neither offered any factual support for their claims.

Hamsher asserted that Obama didn't want to move forward on the repeal of DADT and the 9/11 Responders Bill but only wanted to be proactive on the START Treaty. The White House supposedly made phone calls about START and not the other issues.

She didn't back any of this up and it has been reported no where else. This morning Chuck Schumer said the President did everything they asked of him to help the 9/11 Repsonders Bill. And Senator Schumer has more credibility on the issue than a hater like Hamsher.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

112. I have friends who are noted gay activists who had been meeting with the White House

very frequently. What you write is a bunch of bullshit. You have no idea what you're talking about! NONE!!

[Kurovski]

121. If they're noted, they won't mind being mentioned.

Do you any good stories to relate? I love to hear about how sausage gets made. :D

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

122. That, too! LOL!!! n/t

[Kurovski]

123. LOL

:D

[firedupdem]

15. I wouldn't watch any show with firebagger jane on it.

She wouldn't spit on the president if he was on fire. To hell with that hateful woman.

[AtomicKitten]

49. Ugh. She was horrible. My son was in the kitchen listening

(apparently!) and yelled out, "Gawd what an itch." Or something that sounded like that.

A bit later Lawrence said he had something on the next segment with Ann Coulter, "a friend of the show." And then I stopped listening. Vomit. I've reached my quota of ugh*barf for the day thanks.

[JamesA1102]

56. You should have stuck around.

O'Donnell was being sarcastic calling Coulter a friend of the show. She said on Fox that conservatives were more charitable that liberals; so O'Donnell made a charitable contribution in her name.

[AtomicKitten]

60. thanks for the heads up -- my dvr will correct that

:hi:

[jefferson_dem]

20. People should just randomly run up to Hamsher, point at her, and laugh out loud...

She's earned it...all the mocking ridicule. What a fucking clown of a tool.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FrenchieCat]

27. There are many folks who survive Cancer, and unfortunately some who don't.

Sadly, having been struck with Cancer,
doesn't make them right about everything,
as well, it doesn't mean they don't lie or stretch the truth
if they are prone to it.

Cheney is sick too.....and he might state that he is a survivor....
and?

[vaberella]

28. What does her being a cancer survivor have to do with anything. The issue is she's a liar. n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

30. What has she lied about? Being wrong in a prediction isn't lying.

Please show me where she has lied.

[Clio the Leo]

33. Let's just say.....

..... her interpretation of how the last two weeks in the Senate played out differs with every report I read about it, literally, while it was happening. ;)

Her assertion that Obama wanted START passed and the rest be damned is about as disingenuous as you can get.

[Hello_Kitty]

39. Yet if all that came out of the lame duck session had been START

I have a strong feeling you'd being crowing as loudly as you are now and praising Pres. Obama for his big success in getting this important weapons treaty passed despite the disappointment of losing all those other things. As it is, DREAM Act seems to have disappeared down the memory hole. If the President deserves credit for DADT (and I agree he does deserve some of it) then he deserves (at least some of) the blame for DREAM failing.

[vaberella]

41. When did Dream Act go down memory hole...

That's hardly the case, it died and they know they don't have a chance for the next two years. Are you suggesting that the President has forgotten about the Dream Act and doesn't plan on revisiting it?

As for the first part of your statements...that did not happen. The fact remains that the lame duck session overall was a success for the President and none of your comments nor Jane Hamsher's string of misinformation and certainties will change that fact. But I notice belittling the President is part and parcel with the direction some people are going. At times this strays far from being logical skepticism to just disliking the man in general which is the sense that comes out when it's so hard to just say the man did good without having to add something along the lines of "it wasn't really him though."

[JamesA1102]

70. It didn't. The President mentioned it at the press confernce today.

[Clio the Leo]

51. Of course he does.....

.... but the fact of the matter is, DADT was going to get done. We have NO Omnibus because of it and we probably have no DREAM act because of it. I was honestly afraid we'd have no 911 bill because of it. But anyone who listened to what the man said for the past year and half, provided they TOOK THEIR BLINDERS OFF FOR FIVE SECONDS, can see that not only did he get it done but he did it just like he said he would. By working with first the DOD and then the Congress and by the end of the year.

He's not claiming this victory as his alone and no one is claiming it for him. He saved his biggest thanks for the grassroots supporters of the bill .... those who chained themselves to the WH fence months ago .... and those who chained themselves to the fence proudly gave their gratitude to their commander in chief. To nit pick over who didn't do enough or who didn't do it in the way that someone would have liked for them to sounds like a fit of the green eyed monster.

As for whether DREAM has vanished down the memory hole .... it's clear that you long ago unsubscribed to OFAs mailing list (as is your prerogative.)

This train is going to keep rolling along. You and Jane can stand next to the tracks and yell that it's not going fast enough, but the rest of us are going to leave you behind.

We'll send you a postcard when we get there.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

118. Ridiculous! Most of the Republicans and five Democrats blocked DREAM

How exactly is this Obama's fault? I'm not clear.

[emulatorloo]

35. She deliberately "confuses" her predictions with reality. She 'asserts' her speculation as fact

"Hamsher asserted that Obama didn't want to move forward on the repeal of DADT"

[vaberella]

40. Exactly. n/t

[Hello_Kitty]

43. Was she totally off-base on that, assuming she made that assertion?

Didn't AG Holder appeal the court decision stopping it? Plus, how do you know who she was talking to in DC to draw that conclusion?

[ProSense]

45. She was smug when she made the assertion

and she laid it all at the President's feet. If she is going to insist that nothing is getting done because the President doesn't have the will and isn't pushing hard enough, she is going to have to concede that he proved her wrong when it he gets it done.

[Clio the Leo]

54. you do realize the President didn't HAVE to sign the repeal right?

..... if he didn't want it passed, he's got this veto deal-y thing-ma-bob.

Or is there some grand scheme as to why he signed the bill against his own will? Do DADT advocates know the true location of the long form or something?

[TheKentuckian]

76. Not unless he is ready to make a run as a Republican.

He VETO'S DADT repeal and he may as well be Reagan's reanimated corpse as good as his chances would be of being renominated.

Would you vote for him if he vetoed that bill?

[Clio the Leo]

77. lol he's not going to veto it ....

... not after working so hard to get it passed.

[TheKentuckian]

82. I didn't say he was. It was your hypothetical that you don't want to play if it is turned around.

[Clio the Leo]

97. Nope .... I was asking a question.

If Jane's accusation is true ... that the President didn't want it passed ... or wanted START passed even if it noting else did, then why sign DADT?

I think it's this point it's pretty obvious, he wanted START and DADT passed even if nothing else did as that's what happened. (I think credit to the 911 bill goes to Schumber/Gillibrand/911 responders.)

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

119. It has been explained many times as to why he had to. Even Rachel Maddow

discussed this at length.

And the gay activists who met with the President and scolded Holder were explicitly told why the AG had to pursue this route to make sure that states were making laws that the Federal government had no change of enforcing. Change had to happen in the Congress. DADT was instituted as legislation, not a court decision. Therefore, it is necessary for the Congress to overturn legislation to have the force of law. Now that it's done, no state can come back and claim to uphold DADT. Federal laws are supreme over state laws. Federal court decisions are typically more powerful that state court rulings.

Why this is so hard for DUers to understand is just baffling.

Again, hatred of this president has caused all reason and logic (not to mention respect for the U.S. Constitution) to flow out the window.

[JamesA1102]

67. No, she lies.

O'Donnell nailed her for lying 2 weeks ago.

HAMSHER: I think the poor are being used as human shields to give billionaires tax cuts—I think that there is no way you can argue with a straight face that having an estate tax that is even better for rich people than anything George Bush ever had is in any way—

O‘DONNELL: Hold on, hold on. No, that‘s not true. The estate tax today is zero. It is zero. There is a zero estate tax. The estate tax on January 1st, on the Obama deal, will be 35 percent on estates of $5 million and above.

So, we have a zero estate tax. Let‘s not let anyone pretend that the estate tax next year is somehow going to be lower than what George Bush managed to achieve for this year. You don‘t get lower than zero.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40566695/ns/msnbc_tv/

[Clio the Leo]

69. that was a fun moment. nt

[JamesA1102]

87. Yes is was.

I also find it interesting that many times she doesn't answer the question. She just launches into some rant.

[Hello_Kitty]

91. The estate tax was going to go way up in 2011. So she was telling the truth.

You guys constantly invoke "but if they'd let the tax cuts expire it would be SO MUCH WORSE!!1!" to defend the compromise where middle and lower income people are concerned so it's more than a little hypocritical to call Hamsher a liar here.

Try again.

[JamesA1102]

92. No she wasn't

She said that the President was cutting the estate tax lower than Bush had. Bush cut it to zero and you can't go lower than zero. She was lying.

[Hello_Kitty]

93. Oh brother. You're really splitting hairs here.

The estate tax didn't go to 0 right after the Bush tax cuts. It went down gradually over a period of 10 years.

[JamesA1102]

94. You're the one splitting hair

but however you cut it, Bush lowered the estate tax to 0 so her statement was a lie.

[jeanpalmer]

102. If we're going to call out lies

how many times did Obama lie during the campaign? And why hasn't he been called out like Jane, who was telling the truth?

[JamesA1102]

105. Be my guest. Point them out.

No one ever said the President was perfect but that doesn't change the fact that Jane lies.

So feel free to make a list of the President's lies. Go here if it helps: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/

[jeanpalmer]

103. Jane was correct

when she said Obama's estate tax "is even better for rich people than anything George Bush ever had...." The lowest rate during W's term was 45% with a $3.5 million exemption. Obama gave them a 35% rate and a $5 million exemption, clearly better for them. This is why the Repugs loved the deal.

The estate tax rate in 2010 did go to 0% under W's 2001 tax cuts, but that was because a change was made in the capital gains law that required heirs to recognize much larger gains on inherited property and therefore pay much higher income taxes when disposing of the property. It appears to have been a trade-off for one year of lower estate taxes for higher income taxes. I believe Obama's tax deal retains for two years the lower capital gains recognition, in addition to establishing the lower rate and the higher exemption.

[JamesA1102]

104. But Bush is responsible for the current rate

which is zero and you can't get lower than zero, she lied.

[jefferson_dem]

83. Here's a lie. Did she say that POTUS didn't make calls on DADT?

Well... Lookie here. Photographic proof that Hamsher LIES.


President Barack Obama makes Congressional calls from the Oval Office before today's final Senate vote repealing the ban on gay men and women serving openly in the military, Saturday, Dec 18. White House Photo by Pete Souza

http://www.pridesource.com/article.html?article=44806

[great white snark]

86. Didn't he also make calls to the Log Cabin Republicans to drum up support?

I recall reading that somewhere. In any event Jaded Hamsher has no shame.

[NorthCarolina]

106. It's just a picture with a caption that somebody added. He may have been ordering a pizza.

Just sayin'.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

116. To assert that Obama had no role in DADT is a flat-out LIE. It wasn't a prediction.

It was a lie. And a projection. For a fact, Obama worked with gay rights organizations and advocacy groups to convince Senators to get onboard on the repeal. The target was moderate-leaning Republicans like Brown, Snowe, Collins, Voinovich and LeMieux.

The bottom line is that Hamsher is lying. Her hatred of Obama has made her delusional and hysterical, much like what we witness here on DU on a daily basis.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Clio the Leo]

26. It must suck to be that wrong.....

.... talking about Jane of course, not you James. ;)

Years from now history will remember the heroes of this day .... Dan Choi, Zoe Dunning, Eric Alva ... and it will also remember Barack Obama.

Jane Hamsher wont even be a footnote in the story.

[vaberella]

29. Yup yup. Only last week or two weeks ago she was on O'donnell's show.

She actually smirked and said that Obama didn't have a chance in hell in getting DADT repealed during the lame duck session. Went as far as to imply that he might have wanted it that way so he could get START passed. The woman hates Obama like I've never seen before.

[Clio the Leo]

32. Lawrence has admitted he was wrong about HCR.....

.... Rachel GIGGLES with DELIGHT "about how wrong" she was over DADT. You know who else admits when he's wrong? Barack Obama. People with strong characters and tough egos do that.

Jane .... eh, not so much.

[emulatorloo]

37. She'll never admit she was wrong. Because she creates her own reality.

[Clio the Leo]

38. convenient. nt

[ProSense]

42. Transcript

Transcript, Dec. 14

<...>

O‘DONNELL: Joining me again are: Jane Hamsher, founder of FireDogLake.com; Adam Green, cofounder of the Progressive Change Campaign Committee; Ezra Klein, columnist for “The Washington Post”; and Karen Finney, former communications director for the DNC.

Today, Speaker Nancy Pelosi tweeted, “The House will vote on Representative Patrick Murphy‘s stand-alone “don‘t ask, don‘t tell” repeal bill tomorrow. Senate action on “don‘t ask, don‘t tell” is long overdue.”

Jane Hamsher, does this look like what could be the breakthrough on “don‘t ask, don‘t tell”? Surely, the House can get a stand-alone bill through. And there seem to be more than 60 senators who are available, theoretically, to vote for a stand-alone “don‘t ask, don‘t tell” in the Senate. Might this be the breakthrough?

HAMSHER: Well, as Nancy Pelosi (INAUDIBLE) goes, I think I prefer “Pirates of Penzance.” This has about zero chance of actually getting through the Senate. They‘re due to break on the 17th. They‘ll fight about tax cuts for a few more days. They make take up the START Treaty.

But this will ultimately wind up being—ending in procedural commotion, much like it did last time. There isn‘t the will to pass it.

The question then becomes: does President Obama really want to end it? Because it‘s questionable that he has the ability either through the Justice Department to not challenge the court decisions that have rendered it unconstitutional, or also to end it with a presidential order ending “don‘t ask, don‘t tell.” So, I think that‘s going to be the real question.

<...>

[vaberella]

47. Exactly and note what she implies here: "does President Obama really want to end it?..

You see what I'm talking about. Ugh, she's disgusting.

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emulatorloo]

55. Hamsher's words aren't a "prediction". It is character assassination.

Re-read the quote again. It is full of negative language, assumptions, armchair psychoanalysis and baseless character attacks

[ProSense]

57. You think my believing the health care bill wasn't dead

is the same as Jane Hamsher making smug predictions about the President's resolve on TV?

Really?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

46. Sounds some people here on DU. Nothing different than what we've seen here.

I just don't understand why the hell they even bother coming on this forum. Makes no sense to me at all...

[11 Bravo]

101. Yup, they'll be back posting on DU as soon as their TV appearance has concluded.

[rufus dog]

79. Jane's rhetoric is getting uglier by the day

Sometimes you just have to admit you are wrong. Or you just double down on the bullshit with a smile on your face. Condi and shrub do it on WMDs, Jane does it with her Obama lies. In the end they are just different sides of the same flawed coin.

[impik]

80. What's really sad is that these people are

self appointed "speakers of the Left". I couldn't care less about how stupid they look and sound - but they make the entire left look and sound the same.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

120. It sure does. And we're quite an eclectic and diverse community. It's really sad.

They are doing the exact opposite of what we've been working on for years: to being credibility to the progressive movement. They set the movement back decades with their hateful rhetoric.

I'm sure Rush and Glenn are shouting with glee, joyous at the fact that the so-called "left" is deteriorating. The more we fall for it, the more delight they get from it.

Adam Green isn't as bad as Jane Hamsher, but he's getting there. At the very least, he tries to motivate the left into action rather than just sitting around writing a blog about how much he hates the president like Hamsher does. I also think that Green is able to admit when he's been wrong or misguided on an issue. Cenk and Hamsher, not so much.

[Phx_Dem]

84. That's why they're haters. Hamsher has that creepy grin plastered

across on her face the entire time, like she's frozen. She's so weird . . . and a hater.

[Still a Democrat]

85. Hamster = Palin

Mirror image.

She doesn't care about progessive accomplishments, she cares about some on the left always feeling disenfranchised enough to keep visiting her site to be reassured the world is still a hopeless place.

I do enjoy it when LO smacks her down - it's amazing how her fact tank runs on empty.

[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[megax5000]

96. Why so?

They're pretty much right. And I say that as someone who likes Obama.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xajou_lHI

[Tripod]

98. Thanks for the humor.

This helps to ease the pain I have, while watching all this happen right in front of me.x(

[namahage]

99. I like Obama, so I'll link to a video

portraying Hitler mentioning hillaryis45.com.

[ncteechur]

108. Unfortunately there are several on DU as well.

[JNelson6563]

109. Which DUers were they?

Just curious.