To be Honest, I'm very pissed...

[FrenchieCat]

but Hey I'm looking for the Fat Lady,
and I don't hear her singing just yet.
She's drank her glass of water,
but she's hasn't cleared her throat!

And so back to me being pissed, feeling yanked around like a yo-yo...
and I don't like that shit.....
so I'm gonna get busy!

If you are pissed and mad, you would be getting busy too!

This shit ain't over yet, and if you act like it,
than you are putting dirt on a grave which has no body in it for now!


Look, this reform is supposed to be for us,
and I'll be damned if I let anyone take it away,
especially a piece of shit like Lieberman....
or the constistent habitual cynics and the GOP
who find today to be, well....quite fruitful!

So, YES,
I actually understand that we need 60 votes to get cloture,
and that even if Obama put on boxing gloves,
and kicked the shit out of Lieberman's ass,
Lieberman still wouldn't give us his vote....
and yet, we would still need 60 to get to cloture....to get to conference.

After cloture has been invoked, the following restrictions apply:

No more than thirty hours of debate may occur.<9>
No Senator may speak for more than one hour.
No amendments may be moved unless they were filed on the day in between the presentation of the petition and the actual cloture vote.
All amendments must be relevant to the debate.
Certain procedural motions are not permissible.
The presiding officer gains additional power in controlling debate.
No other matters may be considered until the question upon which cloture was invoked is disposed of.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloture

As well.....

Technically, conference committees can only consider matters in disagreement between House and Senate versions of legislation, but in practice, matters only remotely, and sometimes not at all, relevant are added or changed in conference. At times, the House or Senate may pass a provision of a bill to which they have no intent of adhering firmly during conference negotiations. Rather, Representatives or Senators may wish to make a statement of legislative ideas to the public or to conferees and then concede the provision, if necessary, down the road.

The intent of each chamber, their willingness to bend on some issues but not on others, and the politics surrounding other bills or issues facing Congress all play a role in determining the final product of a conference committee.
...

Negotiations continue until language is found for a bill that a majority of both House and Senate conferees can agree upon and report to the whole Congress. Once a conference committee issues a conference report, which includes the language of their agreement and an explanation of the differing House and Senate portions, both chambers must give final approval before the bill is sent to the president's desk. The conference report is not subject to amendment by either chamber, so it must be either approved or rejected exactly as agreed to by the conference committee (though Members of Congress rarely let conferees agree to a report they will not vote for).
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Compromise+and+the+conference+committee.-a0132841472

----------------

ADOPTION OF THE BILL
Would send the Senate bill to a conference committee, where it would be reconciled with the House healthcare bill that passed two weeks ago

When expected: Just before Christmas, though possibly later

Votes required: 51

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-health-box21-2009nov21,0,7619532.story


That's right, 51 votes needed on the bill coming out of conference in the Senate.

----------------

Till then, we need to be the activists that we say we are, and we need to activate!
We need to protest, write, call and do whatever else we do,
to send a clear message to the conferees what we want in the bill that comes out of there....;
the Public Option included by the house.

This isn't about Lieberman, Obama, Rahm, or Reid; this is supposed for us and about us,
so we don't need to sit this out, or make faces in disgust; or scream, or resign in disgust.
we need to be involved!

So again,


White House Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]
TTY/TDD
Comments: 202-456-6213

Email Contact: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact


Here for easy contact info for congresscritters
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/directory/congdir.tt


Contacts for congressional leaders:

Nancy Pelosi at [e-mail]
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


Contact Sen. Harry Reid via Web Form: http://www.congress.org/bio/id/370
go to contact, than the web page link
and select the topic "Keep the Public Option in Health Care Reform" (you'll have to hunt)
Phone: [phone]
Fax: [phone]


then write an LTTE to a couple of your newspapers while drinking your coffee!
http://legislators.com/congressorg/dbq/media/


you can even have a letter hand delivered to your favorite congresscritter!
http://www.congress.org/congressorg/extraimpact/extraimpact.tt

[mkultra]

1. IM looking for a fat lady too

[Cha]

2. K & R for Action..Now is the

time!

[FrenchieCat]

3. That's what I'm talking about!

We need 60 for cloture, and then lieberman gets crushed!

I'm all for that.

Lieberman just put his foot on the trap door.....

[dkf]

6. So we can bait him with a Senate bill without a public option

and then pull the old switcheroo in conference?

[FrenchieCat]

15. That's my understanding.....

although I do have to look into this 60 votes on the conference report shit.....
cause if that's the case, we need to otracize Lieberman so he can't come back to haunt us.

[dkf]

24. Ezra Klein's article says it only needs 50.

Reconciliation, in other words, tips the bill towards an expansion of the public sector rather than a restructuring of the private sector. That makes it much less congenial to conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans (not to mention more conservative Republicans). But it also doesn't need as many of their votes, as it can pass the Senate with 50, rather than 60, in support.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x57682

[rosesaylavee]

4. Brilliant --

Thanks for the timely reminder. Will make my calls tomorrow.

[FrenchieCat]

8. Aye.......

we can get what we want in the end.
It won't be perfect, mind you......
and I don't believe Medicare for over 55 was in the House bill,
so that one may not see the light of day.....although it may depend on the CBO report...

what I do know is that the Public Option is in the house bill, and so
as long as those conferees hold their ground, we will get that....

But we must do our job,
and our job is to make some noise; something that should actually be quite easy to get done.

[OhioBlue]

5. K&R Frenchie!!! n/t

[grassfed]

7. Joey Isadore Lieberman has made me physically ill

what age does medicare start?

[FrenchieCat]

10. I understand........

MAKE SOME FUCKING NOISE!

We need everyone's voices......
as long as you want health care reform that's good and decent,
we can make it happen.

It doesn't matter if one believes in Obama or doesn't believe in Obama...
what happened today, should have us all good and enraged.

LET'S MAKE THIS DEMOCRACY WORK FOR US!

[mkultra]

17. Obama and leiberman are in it together

[FrenchieCat]

22. Yeah....sure......

Lieberman, who supported John McCain and spoke against Obama at the GOP convention,
is playing a game FOR Obama.

Yeah...that's the ticket.

Do you have any other grand fucked up theories to contribute?

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[grassfed]

41. what do you suggest?

where is the march? I'm sick of fdl petitions...

[FrenchieCat]

43. There is no march that I know of........

But I will do everything that I have posted on my OP.

I will write, call and fax, and write an LTTE,
that I will send off using the Congress.org for media tool.

[grantcart]

9. I believe that the most critical point of your OP is in error

From the same LA article


CLOTURE TO END DEBATE ON CONFERENCE REPORT
Would end GOP filibuster of the conference report that combines the House and Senate healthcare bills

When expected: Sometime in January

Votes required: 60


The final vote on the conference report would still require 60 votes

[Clio the Leo]

What does Sherrod Brown know that we dont?

Since he kept saying, "I'm hopeful that the buy in will be inserted later." (on Countdown tonight)

[grantcart]

19. Sherrod's main point was that instead of a public option or a buy in

then a restriction would be substituted requiring the insurance companies to spend 85-90% in actual health care reimbursement.


This would in fact be an important step


EXCEPT


It doesn't do anything to control costs. Indeed there would more incentive to increase prices as a way to increase the gross margin.

[Clio the Leo]

42. Then why are all of the progressive Congressmen....

... citing this as a way to control costs?

Are they just yanking our chair chain or what?

[Armstead]

46. They're grasping at straws

It's the Stockholm syndrome. The leadership has held them hostage for so long they are looking for anything in this shitty bill they can support.

[David Zephyr]

48. Yep.

.

[Clio the Leo]

47. lol, I CLEARLY need to stop doing five things at once.....

.... I think I need to edit that post some.

[FrenchieCat]

13. Oh shit....then I'm extra pissed, and will make even more noise!

shit!

[Tom Rinaldo]

16. This is absolutely the central point

Does the conference report still need 60 votes? In the past my understanding was that the possible advantage of a strategy of inserting a House version public option into the conference report was to thereby make it impossible for health care reform to be approved without approving that also. Make it all one big up or down vote and dare any Democrat or Republican moderate to ultimately kill HCR because of a public option being included. I didn't think a conference report was filibuster proof, just amendment proof. I would love to be wrong about that, but if I'm not then Lieberman is still in the way unless Snowe and Collins bend.

[FrenchieCat]

45. They'd been better off going with snow and a trigger.......

But we didn't like that either.
so.....
we are just going to have to make some loud noise.
We can't just sit there and hope for the best,
or in some's case, hope for the worse.

[Tom Rinaldo]

51. We have to insist on strong Democratic leadership from the White House and in Congress

We need Democrats who are willing to play hardball and they need to know that we won't continue paying the costs for fielding a softball team instead. Lieberman and the like should be made to fear the consequences of not negotiating in good faith. As it is all they feel is smug.

Hardball would be a determination to use Reconciliation to ram through a very comprehensive public option plan and/or a massive expansion of Medicare if a good faith agreement on HCR can't be reached through conventional means. While it is true that Reconciliation can't be used to bring about reforms of the private industry, it CAN be used to scare the living shit out of them by creating a robust public system with subsidies that could actually put them out of business exactly the way they keep falsely complaining that the lame public options that have been negotiated to date supposedly would have.

Make Lieberman chew on that choice for a while. Fuck this we have to get an agreement by Christmas so we have to please Lieberman shit.

[FrenchieCat]

53. So make some NOISE!

[Clio the Leo]

11. Ya mean that House Bill that had a public option!

;)

[styersc]

12. A task made more difficult by an absence of leadership in the

executive branch.

[FrenchieCat]

14. MAKE.SOME.FUCKING.NOISE.THEN!

I've read your posts today,
and you keep saying the same thing.
That's not a solution,
it's instead become a refrain,
that's not helpful in getting it done.

Once whatever comes down, comes down,
then you can instruct us on the leadership of this President.
Till then, what you are talking about is not "action",
cause it doesn't help get a bill through.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[firedupdem]

21. What are palm palms? n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[firedupdem]

29. oh my,

your attempt at being a smart ass exposed you as a dumb ass.

[mkultra]

31. exactly!!! thats how i feel about OBama too. im agree

[FrenchieCat]

23. Up yours, perhaps?

[mkultra]

26. exactly! Up yours Obama! i agree with you completly.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

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[Dinger]

27. Whee! K & R!

That's a *Snap!* if ever I saw one.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dinger]

18. K & R Frenchie

I will call and write. I'm not exactly a gifted writer or speaker, but I can speak my mind.

[budkin]

28. You somehow managed to give me hope again... nice post!

If the Teabaggers can fight then so can we!

[FrenchieCat]

33. This is supposed to be for us, about us, and we need to make ourselves heard so more!

No sitting on the sideline...
cause if we do,
then we will reap what we sow,
and we will deserve it.

We are the one that we have been waiting for....
but now it's time to roar, and show them damn teabaggers
that we know how to do what they have been trying to do,
and we do it well!

[styersc]

62. Frenchie Cat certainly is right. Just because we have no credible

leadership in the Whitehouse does not mean we should stop trying. We have suffered through malevolence and indifference. We should be able to operate despite incompetence and cowardice.

[Gregorian]

35. Now I'm feeling all Howard Beale like. This is great.

Let's make ourselves heard. Instead of feeling powerless, we need to light a fire under these congressional clowns. We have the power.

[FrenchieCat]

39. Hell, we can also light this fire under this President.

His ass ain't exempt!

They all need to hear from us.

They need to hear us fuckig roar!.....

[OneGrassRoot]

66. LOL. K&R for Frenchie, for Gregorian, for Howard Beale....

and FOR ACTION!

I'd rather feel pissed off than defeated and exhausted.

:thumbsup:

:kick:

[Armstead]

36. Thank You Frenchie -- This is helpful

[bridgit]

37. If I hadn't seen this coming I'd be more pissed, but now I'm just flat disgusted with Dem Leadership

rapid response-lack of response, image/position/product control, comprehension of news cycles, packaging, timely pithy flick shit back talk, future vision the whole damn nine they sputter along while reading aloud with their august, uber-civilized silver tongues from The Marquess de Queensberry Rules as they're being led up the gallows to have their fucking heads chopped off

The Queensbury Rules

1. To be a fair stand-up boxing match in a twenty-four foot ring or as near that size as practicable.

2. No wrestling or hugging allowed.

3. The rounds to be of three minutes duration and one minute time between rounds.

4. If either man fall through weakness or otherwise, he must get up unassisted, ten seconds be allowed to do so, the other man meanwhile to return to his corner; and when the fallen man is on his legs the round is to be resumed and continued until the three minutes have expired. If one man fails to come to the scratch in the ten seconds allowed, it shall be in the power of the referee to give his awart in favour of the other man.

5. A man hanging on the ropes in a helpless state, with his toes off the ground, shall be considered down.

6. No seconds or any other person to be allowed in the ring during the rounds.

7. Should the contest be stopped by any unavoidable interference, the referee (is) to name the time and place as soon as possible for finishing the contest, to that the match can be won and lost, unless the backers of the men agree to draw the stakes.

8. The gloves to be fair-sized boxing gloves of the best quality and new.

9. Should a glove burst, or come off, it must be replaced to the referee's satisfaction.

10. A man on one knee is considered down, and if struck is entitled to the stakes.

11. No shoes or boots with springs allowed.

12. The contest in all other respects to be governed by the revised rules of the London Prize Ring.

Nope, nope, chhillll, I've already been here and nobody listened then as it was

[The_Casual_Observer]

38. It's going to be interesting to see how this & Afganistan play out

over the next year or so. It's too early to make a judgement and too late to do much to change the course of events at this point.

[David Zephyr]

49. I do admire you.

You know, I hope you are right and I am wrong.

You are one of Obama's best supporters. I can never get upset with you. I like you too much.

I wish I could see this your way, but I can't.

Still, your OP clearly lays out some hope, thin as it is. And for that, I am kicking this up and giving it an R, too.

May you be right and may I be wrong.

[FrenchieCat]

50. In the end, we both want really pretty much the same thing......

We just have different approaches.
I'm just not going to get pessimistic,
cause what happened today, as mad as it made me,
made almost no sense......unless!
I just don't think that this President is that stupid,
and I'm sure they have anticipated for Leiberman's douchebaggery!

Anyway, thanks for the support. It is appreciated.

[Undercurrent]

52. This is one of the best posts I've seen on DU for awhile!

One of the best because it's respectful of another poster with a different perspective.

Thank you! You renewed my faith, and made my day. :toast:

[David Zephyr]

54. FrenchieCat has my support.

Even when we disagree. FC is no slacker.

Undercurrent, thanks.

[Undercurrent]

55. Thanks Frenchie, for this, and all you do to

try to call people to action. :thumbsup:

My guys, Senators Cantwell, Murry and Rep. Dicks got messages from me tonight. I keep on their cases on a regular basis.



Also, I'm a big fan of Congress.org. It's an excellent advocacy tool.

[arcadian]

56. WTF is this?

And what's with DUers writing their posts in the form of bad poetry?

[AllentownJake]

59. They lost their collective minds last week

When reality came crashing in with fantasy.

[FrenchieCat]

60. Spacing to the next line after a punctuation is not poetry. Doh!

[LittleBlue]

57. I can get behind this.

At least it's not despair, which is all I've been feeling since the Afghanistan troop increase.

[AspenRose]

58. Kickety

K&R

[Hekate]

61. KnR, Frenchie. nt

[JTFrog]

63. Thanks for the links, K&R

[maryinthemorn]

64. Bettter idea is to send a FREE fax..Sanders single payer amendment is up today...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x57848

[me b zola]

65. Just got off the phone with Harry's office

I encourage others to call at least ten members of the senate today.