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NYT: Obama Institutes End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir (Get ready for "Death Panels"!!!)

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:33 PM
Original message
NYT: Obama Institutes End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir (Get ready for "Death Panels"!!!)
heh :evilgrin:

Obama Institutes End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir

By ROBERT PEAR
Published: December 25, 2010

WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.
Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care, which may include advance directives to forgo aggressive life-sustaining treatment.


-snip-
The final version of the health care legislation, signed into law by President Obama in March, authorized Medicare coverage of yearly physical examinations, or wellness visits. The new rule says Medicare will cover “voluntary advance care planning,” to discuss end-of-life treatment, as part of the annual visit.
Under the rule, doctors can provide information to patients on how to prepare an “advance directive,” stating how aggressively they wish to be treated if they are so sick that they cannot make health care decisions for themselves.

While the new law does not mention advance care planning, the Obama administration has been able to achieve its policy goal through the regulation-writing process, a strategy that could become more prevalent in the next two years as the president deals with a strengthened Republican opposition in Congress.

In this case, the administration said research had shown the value of end-of-life planning.
“Advance care planning improves end-of-life care and patient and family satisfaction and reduces stress, anxiety and depression in surviving relatives,”
the administration said in the preamble to the Medicare regulation, quoting research published this year in the British Medical Journal.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/26/us/politics/26death.html?hpw
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:38 PM
Response to Original message
1. But earlier Obama used his grandmother to open debate on rationing health care.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. What is your point exactly?
Edited on Sat Dec-25-10 05:46 PM by Pirate Smile
I'm not sure.

These are issues all families face so it is certainly not surprising President Obama's family has dealt with this issue. Most people would like to have some say in what happens near the end and would like for those discussions with a doctor to be paid for by Medicare.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. My point is simple, society can not fund every medical procedure for everyone so rationing must
become federal policy under Obamacare. Obama recognized that and funded studies to recommend rationing policies and they may well follow policies used in UK.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Gotcha. I just wasn't sure.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Rationing? What an interesting choice of words. Do you use that term
when insurance companies deny a claim?
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 10:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. ROFL! Have a great evening. n/t
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egoclothes Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #8
20. you too.
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. I don't.
If I stand back far enough I can ignore the difference. But even moderately up close there is one, and I think it's important. I usually stand, by default, moderately up close.

In my limited experience doctors require pre-approval for nearly everything under Medicaid and Medicare. Before a procedure or test is scheduled, it's got to be approved. Often a schedule will include all sorts of tests and procedures so a doctor will just shrug and say he can't do it. They assume the patient can't pay for it, esp. if they are on Medicaid. With reimbursement rates low, there's not a big incentive for doctors to subsidize care, it wouldn't be a rare occurrence and there's no real monetary ROI. Even though I know they're rationing *dollars*, not health care itself, there's a close enough correlation that to ration dollars is to impose a limit on health care. It's sloppy thinking but good enough.

With my private insurance, claims are submitted. Providers don't usually seek pre-approval. When claims are denied it's usually after the procedure or service is done; how that gets paid varies, from my being charged full price, insurance-company price, or just the co-pay--it's infrequent and there is a monetary ROI in some cases. In any event, that's rationing of disbursements but not rationing of health care: there's not usually a required pre-approval so the linkage between rationing dollars and health care is broken--and since there are levels of service that are up to me to decide, it's not really rationing. In some cases the insurance company does require pre-approval; but it's just the same claims process with the timing a bit offset, so I extend 'denial of claim' to cover that as well. In those cases it is a kind of rationing.

I do refer to the entire insurance company industry as a kind of rationing, since if you don't have health insurance your health care options are limited, usually to just the ER. I believed that ER use correlated with insurance, so that people with insurance were "in the system" and not subject to the same kind of rationing as those outside the system. Recent studies show I was wrong: ER use correlates not with insurance/lack of insurance but with some aspects of SES. Add insurance to a given group and the ER use doesn't significantly change, at least not over the first year or two.

I think some definitions are in order. I think of rationing as neither a negative or positive term. It's a term used when needed, that's all. You have it when there is a ratio-driven distribution of a limited resource that is imposed, if you ignore the black market, pretty much on everybody. Butter to families and steel to manufacturers during WWII, for example. I thought that the 1970's gas "rationing" wasn't a good use of the term, but it did provide some imposed limitation on gasoline distribution. I think of Medicare as rationing because under Medicare everybody's treated the same, per a formula; Medicaid is the same. There's a limited resource--health dollars--and that translates into limited health care available. You don't pay for different levels of care within those systems. (Even if there if there private supplemental policies.)

Health insurance is a kind of rationing in the sense that it's a way of distributing merchandise or services and those services are limited in quantity. We use the same kind for food, shelter, transportation, clothing, and even, to some extent, education, but those aren't really limited. We don't think of the fact that poor people buy lesser-cost food or less food as rationing, simply because even poor people often have some discretion. It's not usually an arbitrary distribution. I slighted health insurance for a decade because I could afford to pay the doctors and used the money saved on housing and food. I know a family where everybody has Blackberries and cell phones, they rent a 2400 sq ft house, but they have no health insurance, eat crappy food, and even let their car insurance lapse. Their choice. For them, health insurance is a commodity they could afford but they choose not to: This isn't rationing any more than we have food or housing rationing.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. I thought not.
I won't delve too deeply into your long winded, bizarre justification above, as I found it to be bull almost immediately.

Thanks for the response, however.
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. "rationing" is a terrible choice of word
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egoclothes Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. The word is instructive in this case. It is what it is-a form of
rationing when economics are involved.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #19
25. You might have had a point if you didn't say insurance companies
don't ration care. Denying a claim is either rationing care, or it isn't. You can't make up different definitions for business vs. taxpayers.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 03:07 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
bhikkhu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. We also cannot afford to feed everyone, or educate everyone
...beyond a reasonable level. Why is K-8 provided for, but not college? Yet we don't speak about rationing education.

Why is the "poverty level" set low to the point that a large number don't qualify for food assistance and go hungry, while we don't speak about food rationing? In the case of end-of-life planning, it has been shown that quality of life is increased at a reduced cost simply by injecting some intelligence into the system. The other choices we make, by necessity because of limited resources, have shown no similar benefit.

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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
4. Many facilities are assisting patients with Advanced Directives.
The emphasis is on education. The idea - once explained - is embraced by most as they contemplate how they wish their end of life to go.
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jwirr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-25-10 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. End of life plans are not about either tax money or environment. They are
plans that give the dying dignity. I did this for my daughter and I would never do that because some poor rich man had to pay for it or because her life is not as valuable than any other life. If they are talking about anything else then I am totally against it.

family lived during the years when eugenics was used to determine who was to be punished by castration/sterilization or even life imprisonment in an institution.

We were their victims and it is one huge miracle that I am here to print this at all. The miracle that allowed me to be born was a man known as FDR who put a stop to that nonsense.
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 02:19 AM
Response to Original message
9. And just like clockwork...
.... the wingnuts are having a fit. Palin's PAC founder is blasting this story from her Twitter account even as we speak.

http://twitter.com/#!/RAMansour
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 02:24 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. Stupid ass
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impik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 02:24 AM
Response to Original message
10. He told you he was persistent
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jeanpalmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 05:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Is the purpose of the directive
simply to pay doctors for such counseling ("Under the new policy, outlined in a Medicare regulation, the government will pay doctors who advise patients on options for end-of-life care....") or will it instead encourage doctors to give the advice to end one's life? If the doctor doesn't advise to end the life, how can his advice be considered advice on end-of-life care? And then how does he get paid, since he only gets paid for end-of-life advice.

Why didn't the regulation instead just pay for "advice relating to serious illnesses and conditions"?
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Igel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. It means what it says, I'd say.
Any time you're sick you get advice.

This is advanced planning, a different kettle of fish. I've known people who died without them, and it was a burden to the living. I've known people who died with them: Some were a bit of a pain, but it distributed the responsibility and provided for a reasonable conclusion to their lives. Others called for all heroic measures possible--a nasty proposition for end-stage bone cancer, prolonging your pain, the caregiver's pain, and racking up the biggest bill possible.

I dislike how my FIL did it. He had no directive. He was in a coma and the doctors asked his wife whether to pull the plug. It was her responsibility and only her responsibility. To this day she wonders if he'd have recovered if she'd said to continue care.

I like my uncle J's. His directive had the doctor's take a vote: If most said "stop care" then a council of his siblings, wife, and offspring was formed. The doctors, individually and in isolation, filled the council in, so everybody heard the same thing. The council would discuss it and then they'd all hang up. Hours later they'd have another conference all and there'd be no discussion, just the vote: to continue or discontinue care. A nurse was to hold the vote, not one of the doctors, not one of the participants. They'd be informed of the results, not how any one person voted. If they voted to continue, they'd repeat the procedure a week later, unless he was conscious. If they voted to discontinue, that was that. The vote was something like 6 to 3 or 5 to 2 to stop life support. No one vote change would have made a difference. Granted, it was a pain, but it distributed responsibility and nobody knew how anybody else voted.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
15. kick
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Sheepshank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
16. It's amazing how many people of past generations
look to their doctor for every piece of medical advice. To be asked by their doctor what they want, for many is a unique situation and gives them options they didn't even know existed. Palin and her screwball ideas are to the detriment of the right to be informed and make all sorts of personal choices. This particular idea is about education and end of life directives.... not about rationing or denied health care. Trying to divert the discussion onto another track is simply buying into and promoting Palin's thought process. I for one am not going there.

The real death panels, in Palin's squawking, are in reality the insurance companies that determine who gets and doesn't get coverage for expensive life saving procedures. It's not about directives at all.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 05:28 PM
Response to Original message
18. One of my loveliest family members passed in June and she had bedside counseling by her medical
team at the hospital. They told her what the end would be like with her disease (advanced cirrhosis). Since it would take a while for her grown kids to get to her, they counseled her that if she went into a coma she would not be able to tell them of her wishes and they would be saddled with the decision -- a terrible thing to do to one's kids. At that point she signed a DNR. She died that night.

My advance directives were spelled out by my lawyer when I did my will several years ago. I was not then and am not now sick in any way. However, I have seen how quickly one's life can be taken. I want no problems for my spouse and kids to deal with...
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ShadowLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-26-10 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
22. Even now the media STILL isn't covering the facts on this issue, the lie is too good a story to them
I think nothing has disgusted me more in the healthcare debate then the crap stirred up about compensating doctors for end of life planning.

All this proposal does is let medicare compensate doctor's for their time spent advising a patient on their end-of-life care planning, that's it. There is no one telling you that you have to have such end of life planning if doctors think you might die of something you're sick with. The whole purpose of advising the patient at end of life planning is to help the patient write up a living will, that states what they wish if they're unable to make medical decisions for themselves in the future and the doctors all agree that no matter what they do the patient has almost zero chance of recovery or even regaining their consciousness.

There's more benefits to such end of life planning then for the patient, it can also settle family arguments on the issue. If Terry Shiavo had written up an official living will before she went brain dead then the living will would almost certainly have settled the family's long and likely expensive legal battle over what to do with her.

The media shouldn't be giving any credibility to people who spread the false death panel smears, they should be forcefully explaining each time why the smear is dead wrong long and why people spreading it should have zero credibility on healthcare issues.
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