"If health care reform does not pass this Congress...it will be kicked back for a generation"

[jefferson_dem]

VP Biden, just now on "Mourning Joe".

[begin_within]

1. And what they have now isn't reform at all, so the country is screwed for another generation.

[jefferson_dem]

5. That's the point, I guess.

You prefer the status quo (and wherever that takes us) prevails rather than whatever "reforms" are in this bill. For a generation. Good luck with that.

I'll keep that in mind when all Democrats (the entire caucus) support this bill. And all Repugs (the entire caucus) oppose this bill. :crazy:

[Inuca]

26. NOT TRUE

It IS reform. It may not be reform that you or me or many others (mind you, many <> everybody, DU or KOS are not the whole universe of people out there) may have wanted, but iIT IS reform. I will not go over the list, I am sure you know it. It MUST pass, it is an imperfect step in the RIGHT direction. Not passing anything at this point, that's what, to quote you, would screw the country for another generation.

[GarbagemanLB]

2. Mandate everyone buy insurance with no real competition? Sounds awesome for the insurance industry!

No public option. No medicare buy in. Change we can believe in.

[MNDemNY]

3. This bill must die.

[jefferson_dem]

7. Assface McConnell Hearts You...

for that comment.

[MNDemNY]

9. The Insurance industry blows you kisses!!

Aren't those pails getting heavy????:rofl:

[jefferson_dem]

10. Nope. But your cross is.

Put it down and join us.

[MNDemNY]

12. No thanks my stomach for your corporatist mentality is weak.

You and yours are a scourge on this nation. Why do you find it so easy to bow to the corporate masters? are you one of them , or just very ignorant??:thumbsdown: :shrug:

[jefferson_dem]

14. "corporatist mentality"..."corporate masters"...

Total stupid-speak that screams ignorance.

[Bullet1987]

19. Wow so you ARE a corporatist

Only a fool would deny that corporatism runs America now. Even worse are those that pretend it doesn't exist.

[MNDemNY]

22. And the sun revolves around the earth!

:o :rofl:

[dionysus]

25. you have become a cartoon. a really angry, jaded cartoon.

:shrug:

[MNDemNY]

34. No, that would be your "clownish" stance.

Face it, your (our)man in the White House has sold his soul to the corporatists. Even a blind squirrel , such as yourself , must by now see that nut! It's OK, admit that you got lost in the moment, and return to the Democratic Fold. We are very forgiving.:) :rofl:

[Inuca]

28. Mandate everyone to buy insurance BUT WITH

- no preexisting conditions
- subsidies so that MANY MORE can afford health insurance
- better regulation of the insurance industry e.g, Rockefeller's amendement that would force them to use 85% or 90% of the money they make to actually cover halth costs
- no life time limits (I hope the no yearly limits will be brought back as well in conference or whenever)

And the list could go on. Yes, it would be change we can believe in. Change in the real world, where things get dirty and advance slowly. Pragmatic, imperfect, born painfully and in frustration change but real change nevertheless.

[MNDemNY]

35. Teddy would be ashamed of your "bend-over-and -take-it" post.

[Inuca]

37. Doubt it

Do you think that he got all these deals with Hatch and varioous other Rs because he never compromized?

And by te way, I happen to find the "bend over" metaphors offensive and idiotic, whether they are aimed at me or anybody else.

[MNDemNY]

44. too bad.

[DCBob]

4. They wont let it die...

Too much at stake and there are still options left..

[maryinthemorn]

6. But Joe, The Senate just kicked it down to very little.

[Joe Bacon]

8. Been there and done that

I remember working my ass off for health care reform in 1974, We almost got single payer, then Kennedy and Mills fashioned a compromise that got bogged down in Watergate.

Then came 1994, when Hillary's plan went down the toilet. Worked my ass off for Prop 104, single payer, here in California, it went down after the insurnace racketeers poured 100 million into the state to stop it!

The way things are going, we'll have to wait another 20 years before trying again.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

11. And WHY is that so? If a huge mobs of pissed off voters who VOTED for reform

get NOTHING - why are they/we just supposed to sit quietly and die and go bankrupt for twenty more years?

Why do we buy this "one bite at the apple crap" anymore than we buy anything else?

If you had a project at work that you didn't complete on deadline, would your boss say, "oh well, we'll just have to forget about that project"? You bet your ass he/she wouldn't! They would say - "get back in there and do what needs to be done or I'll someone someone else who can do the job!"

Sorry, but I think Biden's statement is incorrect. Healthcare reform was never a luxury - it was always a necessity. 40K deaths a year have been quantified. The financial ruin of Americans due to healthcare is a FACT. Just because they failed this go round will not make it go away.

[jtrockville]

27. Because that's the way it's always been. So where's the CHANGE?

Just because "it's always been that way in the past" is NO EXCUSE for this administration to drop something as basic as providing health care to everyone. This adminstration ran on CHANGING the way things work in Washington.

[freddie mertz]

13. "Laugh about it, talk about it, when you've got to choose....

Anyway you look at it, you lose."

As the song goes.

[rug]

15. I don't think so. It's a big problem that only grows worse.

If Obama doesn't do it, it will still get done.

[tularetom]

16. That's OK, that's plenty of time to eliminate the middle class

In a generation, we'll all be broke and hungry anyway.

And what passes for health care will be a guy walking up and down the street with a big cart shouting "Bring out your dead".

[Tom Rinaldo]

17. That depends on Democrats

If Democrats learn the right lesson from this we can do it again and do it well within four years. The lesson should be stop trying to play nice with the private insurance industry, stop trying to protect it's interests, stop trying to win a broad bi-partisanship consensus on health care reform, and instead concentrate on the real needs of the American people and ennact real strong deficit reducing government run reforms using simple majorities in Congress.

If Democrats admit that is where they went wrong and start running on a platform of Medicare for all, or at least for a whole lot more, they can distance themselves from this failed effort and use it as the reason why they needed to take a completely different approach next time. The problems with the current system aren't going away, they are getting worse. The public has been paying attention - they know why and where this effort foundered. Opponents of a government role in health care will remain opponents, but we won't need their support to do what is needed.

[cornermouse]

18. Do you really think anything's going to change after

the insurance companies have soaked up the profits from 4 years of a national mandatory health insurance law? All that money is going to buy a lot of lobbyists and be applied to a lot of campaign bank accounts. Ain't nothin' gonna change in 4 years for us.

[Tom Rinaldo]

21. They had all the money needed to bribe lawmakers now

They didn't skimp, they were willing to spend whatever was needed, and that could buy them enough votes to keep us from having a dependable super majority but not enough to stop us from going the Reconciliation route. Democrats lack the nerve, not the resources, to get real reform through Congress. Reagan and Bush accomplished much more of their core agendas by playing hard ball in Congress, sometimes without even holding simple majorities there. When Democrats can't win primaries inside their own party without strongly backing expanding Medicare, they will find the resolve to get this done. Industry money can't help them win general elections if they can't get past the primaries.

[Armstead]

20. That attitude is why Democrats are the Loser Party

The assumption that we have to swallow shit because that is all we will ever be able to swallow is at the heart of the modern Democratic Party.

Jeezus, even in defeat the Republicans get their way, while in victory the Democrats spend tyheir time finding creative new ways to screw up.

[backscatter712]

23. And he's absolutely right.

We get it passed now.

Reform and change is an incremental process, and the correct strategy is to take the increment. If it loses, we're dead in the water.

[Inuca]

29. 10000000% agree

You must be an adult, right?

[backscatter712]

45. I'd like to think I've observed this game long enough to know how the bastards in DC operate.

If the bill dies, we'll get absolutely nothing for the next 20 years.

I say we take what we can get now, then the day after Lieberman's cast his final vote, then we take his gavel, expel him from the caucus and move his desk to the Senate bathroom...

[Clio the Leo]

24. "The man glows!"

That was nice to wake up to this morning. ....... And he's right.

[Inuca]

30. "glows"????

Curious minds stuck in front of a computer at work want to know.

[Clio the Leo]

31. lol, that's what either Joe Scar or Mike Barnacle...

.... or maybe both of them said as Joe the Hottness walked onto the MSNBC set this morning.

And they were speaking the truth...

See?

[treestar]

32. I've heard that one before

But don't understand why it would be the case. Nothing stops them from trying a bill every year.

[flyarm]

33. well that is better than the shit they are putting forward! Which is nothing but bought POLITICANS

HEALTH INSURANCE CORPORATE AND BIG PHARMA WELFARE PROGRAM AND BAIL OUT!

if you accept this shit..you get what you deserve!

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

Remember Joe Lieberman was Obama’s Mentor in the Senate

By: fflambeau Monday December 14, 2009 10:05 pm

Those who are up in arms over Sen. Joe Lieberman’s "veto" of the extension of Medicare should remember this. When Sen. Barack Obama arrived in Washington, D.C. in 2005, he selected as his mentor none other than: Joe Lieberman.

Here’s David Sirota writing about this, after discussing Obama’s stab in the back of the progressive Lamont in Connecticut and his stab in the back of the progressive Christine Cegelis (Obama backed Duckworth) way back in 2006:


snip:

Other sources, including the Hartford Courant, reported that Obama chose Lieberman as his mentor.]

http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/18929

[bvar22]

36. If this bill passes...

..Health Care Reform will be set back for a generation.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. This bill is so bad, that we'd be better off letting the system collapse

(with providers unable to collect bills at all) till everyone BEGGED for single payer.

Since the people who can't afford insurance wouldn't be helped for years anyway, why not?

[Jersey Devil]

39. Why don't you volunteer to get it started by dropping your insurance?

Then you can be the one to lose your house and savings and go into bankrupcy instead of the poor slobs who lost their jobs and now are uninsured that this bill, even minus the public option, are designed to help with subsidies for the poor.

Or maybe you should refuse all health care no matter how sick you may become to stand on your principles like those who cannot afford it because they are too poor to get insurance?

Nice of you to sacrifice others for your principles.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

41. Don't accuse me of hypocrisy--I'm almost there

and I have no house to lose. If business doesn't improve in about two or three months, I will be declaring bankruptcy for reasons other than health care.

As I said, most of the help doesn't go into effect for years. If you think you'll get immediate help on payments, you're dreaming.

Extension of Medicaid to the unemployed could be a separate bill without all the corporate welfare attached to both the House and Senate bills.

The only reason I'm keeping my insurance is that it's currently less expensive than the "subsidized" prices proposed for my income level. Yes, bad as it is, I'm better off with it than with what I'd be getting under the Massachusetts plan or with the bills currently before Congress.

If there's a mandate, I don't want to be forced to buy something that's more expensive than what I have now. I'm hoping to be grandfathered in with this policy.

That's how bad this bill is. My current insurance sucks, but it's better than what I'd get under either the Senate or the House bills.

If the bills fail, I'll happily drop it and pay out of pocket. My current deductible would bankrupt me anyway these days.

[budkin]

40. They said the same thing in 1993... and we made it back here again

[Jersey Devil]

42. Great! That means we only have to wait until 2025

What? :wtf:

[asdjrocky]

43. This is not health care reform.

Everyone that can think knows this has nothing to do with reform. So if we pass this there's no real reform

Fucked, and double fucked.