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Ezra Klein. "A lot of progressives woke up this morning feeling like they lost. They didn't."

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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:29 AM
Original message
Ezra Klein. "A lot of progressives woke up this morning feeling like they lost. They didn't."
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:37 AM by Pirate Smile
Is the Senate health-care reform bill still worth passing?



"Insurance companies win," Markos Moulitsas tweeted last night. "Time to kill this monstrosity coming out of the Senate."

This was, for progressives, a frustrating vote. But the flip side of it being morally unconscionable for Joe Lieberman to put the bill at risk over something as small as Medicare buy-in for 3-or-so million people is that the absence of Medicare buy-in -- and of the weak public plan -- is not reason enough to oppose the bill, either.

The core of this legislation is as it always was: $900 billion, give or take, so people who can't afford health-care insurance suddenly can. Insurance regulations paired with the individual mandate, so insurers can't discriminate against the sick and the healthy can't make insurance unaffordable by hanging back until the moment they need medical care. The construction of health insurance exchanges so the people currently left out of the employer-based market are better served, and the many who will join them as the employer system continues to erode will have somewhere to go.

That's all policy. And as I spent yesterday arguing, it has a tendency to overshadow the lives in the balance.
You can choose your estimate. The Institute of Medicine's methodology says 22,000 people died in 2006 because they didn't have health-care coverage. A recent Harvard study found the number nearer to 45,000. Since we talk about the costs of health-care reform over a 10-year period, may as well talk about the lives saved that way, too. And we're looking, easily, at more than a hundred thousand lives, to say nothing of the people who will be spared bankruptcy, chronic pain, unnecessary impairment, unnecessary caretaking, and so on.

A lot of progressives woke up this morning feeling like they lost. They didn't. The public option and its compromised iterations were a battle that came to seem like a war. But they weren't the war. The bill itself was. When liberals talked about the dream of universal health-care insurance 10, 20 and 30 years ago, they talked about the plight of the uninsured, not the necessity of a limited public option in competition with private insurers.

Last night, on "Countdown," Sen. Sherrod Brown said, "This is a good bill. Not a great bill, but a good bill." That's about right. But the other piece to remember is that more than it's a good bill, it's a good start. With $900 billion in subsidies already in place, it's easier to add another hundred billion later, if we need it, than it would be to pass $1 trillion in subsidies in 2011. With the exchanges built and private insurers unable to hold down costs, it's easier to argue for adding a strong public option to the market than it was before we'd tried regulation and a new competitive structure. With 95 percent of the country covered, it's easier to go the final 5 percent. And with a health-care reform bill actually passed, it's easier to convince legislators that passing such bills is possible.

On its own terms, the bill is the largest social policy achievement since the Great Society. It will save a lot of lives and prevent a lot of suffering. But moving forward, it also makes future improvements and expansions easier. A lot of the hard work of health-care reform -- in particular, the money for subsidies -- will finish this year. If reformers want to come back for the public option or more subsidies in a future year, they won't be doing it atop a $900 billion price tag that's being battered by tea parties and industry and everyone else. This bill doesn't have all the good stuff it should have, but reformers can stop fighting for what good stuff it does have and concentrate more intently on what good stuff is left to achieve.

Photo credit: AP Photo/Haraz N. Ghanbari.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/is_the_senate_health-care_refo.html
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. kick for perspective
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Robb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. But "we" will frame it as a loss. Kind of no matter what.
That's the trap "we've" fallen into.

Good for us.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #2
18. So true. People invested in selling this as a huge failure are unrec'ing this because we certainly
wouldn't want to view it as progress.

The Republicans and a segment of Progressives/Dems are intent on turning progress into failure.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
3. As long as they're including mandates without measures to curb prices...
...and create competition, I don't know how this can be seen as "the largest social policy achievement since the Great Society."
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OneGrassRoot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. That's my question this morning...

I'm self-employed, haven't had insurance coverage for 10 years, and there's no way on Earth I can afford anything more than $100/month, let alone be FORCED to buy into something which really isn't going to help me and with the system essentially still corrupt.

I'm sincerely asking for someone to help me feel better about this if they have info which could do so.

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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. Wish I could help you feel better about this, but I feel sick about it...
Your situation is so unjust, and I know lots of others who are staying in jobs that don't match their talents just to keep their health insurance.

imo it's immoral for a country as wealthy as this one not to provide health care for every citizen.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
44. The question you raise might be What has happened to Medicaid expansion?
THAT was the idea to help people like you get affordable health care, even if you are not poor enough under current law to get Medicaid. If that is still in the bill, you could get help.
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Richardo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
4. Thanks for posting this
:patriot:
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. THIS. Recommended. n/t
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VMI Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:33 AM
Response to Original message
6. War is peace and this bill is a win.
Yeah.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Right - more through the looking glass stuff. nt
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
42. They think calling it "reform" makes it so -
or at least they think we're dumb enough to fall for that. Reminds me of Bush's "Clean Skies" plan.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
8. Blah-Blah... this is a give away to the Insurance Industry . Plain and simple.
Only a true corporatist would champion this shit pile as it now is.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
9. Think of the good $900 billion could do in a real national universal health system
Instead Congress is shoveling it into perpetuating a bad system based on profits over people.

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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. But how would the corporate parasites get a cut if we did that?
Oh, you're assuming that the purpose of all this was actually to reform health care. My bad.
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. How silly of you
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. What was I thinking??? n/t
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
10. I'd say this bill is more a sign of how progressives are taken advantage of by the Democrats.
It's a start. Great. Oh, we can add more in the future? Awesome! I'm sure the Democrats will have 60 votes many more times in the near future!

This was a once in a generation chance, with 60 Democratic senators, a good majority in the house, and a Democratic president.

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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
11. "...the largest social policy achievement since the Great Society."
That didn't take long at all.
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GarbagemanLB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. That means only 60+ more years for a public option! Can't wait til 2070!
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Umbral Donating Member (969 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I hope I can hold out that long. nt
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Uh it is a loss
Mandates without serious cost control.

No public option and even the medicare buy in is going to be torpedoed.

But thank god we saved those poor under-profitable health insurance companies.
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AndyA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
13. And how long will it take to "fix" this bill later?
When the Republicans gain back seats in Congress...when they get the White House. It will be delayed, delayed, delayed. Any hope of real reform will die, and the health insurance companies will be making a profit and average Americans will struggle to pay for a new "tax" that they can't afford.

With real unemployment at over 17%, it's inexcusable that anyone would force yet another expense on the American people. That's a sure fire way to lose votes.

Hey, perhaps they can even levy the fee on people a couple of years before insurance is available to them. You know, like they did with telephone portability and whatnot. Why, it will take these companies time to set up infrastructure and get prepared for the new customers. A couple of years should be long enough, right?

Oh praise the people who are looking out for our best interests! :puke:
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backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
14. K&R. Getting this bill signed into law is absolutely necessary.
There are times when we have to swallow our pride and do what must be done. This is one of those times.

One thing to be said about the public option fight: the opposition had to spend all of their energy killing it. If that wasn't the case, they would have been working on killing the pre-existing conditions ban, the subsidies, the caps on out-of-pocket costs, the Medicaid expansion, etc. Those provisions are still in there, and they're absolutely worth getting into law.

We get this bill signed, then get revenge on Kapo Joe Lieberman afterwards. Revenge is a dish best served cold.

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firedupdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. Rec'd...thanks! n/t
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
17. K and R for a little bit of positivity.
:kick:
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
22. Ezra Klein has been for a long t ime the spokeman of "any reform"
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 10:47 AM by Mass
Not surprising he continues.

I am not for following kos's advice, but I am tired to see progressive senators tell us it is a good bill when their body language tells us the opposite. So, tell us it is better than nothing, but stop telling us it is a good bill. It is not.

Also, we will know very soon how these people are serious. In the next few days, there should be a single payer vote in the Senate. We all know it is perfectly for show. The votes are not in. But, because they are not enough votes, there is no excuse for a progressive democrat not to vote for it and be counted. So, I will consider ANY democrat voting against it as opposed to single payer.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. I simply do not buy this bullshit any longer. n/t
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:51 AM
Response to Original message
25. If Americans do not participate, they deserve the Congress they get-bought and paid for by lobbyists
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Clio the Leo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:00 AM
Response to Original message
27. You tell them Ezra! NT
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
28. It's amazing watching Dems try to spin this as positive
It'll work for some, but not others. The bill is shit. Pure and simple...you can't explain that away. Again, it's the "anything is better than nothing" argument.
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sojourner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
29. kick and recommend.....
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Romulox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. Mandatory for-profit insurance + no price controls is a MAJOR loss for regular people. Unrec. nt
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
31. WRONG, IMHO, This is simply the Enronization of insurance. It is a scam, a con, a fraud,
that forces the working poor to buy insurance or get fined.

The only thing that will come of this are rich insurance industry profits.

AND The broken bank accounts of those who, for whatever reason can not get subsidies, and are fined and get nothing in return (this is where the money comes from for some of the subsidies).

And fly-by-night subsidiaries of big insurance who sell plans that prevent you from getting fined - BUT WILL NEVER - NEVER - NEVER PAY OUT A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT FOR THOSE WHO NEED TREATMENT.

If you don't think big insurance can game a system built on a 2,000 page bill, then you can't pronounce Enron.

This is simply the Enronization of insurance.

It is pay or punish crapsurance.



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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R. I heard him on MSNBC last night. He made a lot of sense. n/t
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
33. I Suppose For People Like Klein Perhaps It Looks GOOD To Him!
He HAS money and he probably doesn't have to worry about HCR! I'm tired of trying to figure just where "we the people" really fit in. Sure the bill "has something" in it... but it's so far off track from what began, I'm feeling like I'm out in LEFT FIELD!

OH, yes I AM out in LEFT FIELD! And for those who think this will be RE-VISITED... THINK NAFTA!! When will THAT be re-visited??

I'm not going to say I'm sorry for my comments because I believe this has been so watered down, so why should I really believe IT WILL get re-visited??

JMHO!
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Garam_Masala Donating Member (711 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
34. $900 Billion more revenues for the Private Insurance Industry is good?
I guess, if you say so.

I am looking at buying a mutual fund which has focus on health
insurance outfits. It has to be a winner.
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Yes
or least, to some extent yes. What path do you think most these billions will take to reach the industry's pockets? Would it by any chance by subsidizing people to help them health insurance?
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Cleobulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:55 PM
Response to Reply #38
56. More likely to help them pay for too expensive premiums and still be priced out of copays and...
deductibles.
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. I would like to to see the feasibility tested of filing a class- action lawsuit on behalf
of the American people who are going to be fucked by this, on the grounds that you cannot force someone to buy a defective product. Any lawyers out there? Thoughts?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
36. "Without a Public Option, there is NO reform."...Howard Dean.
I agree with Howard Dean.

This bill is NOTHING but another huge transfer of PUBLIC MONEY to the private sector.

Could you imagine the UPROAR if the Republicans tried to pass THIS piece of shit?

The Working Class is fucked.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
37. Yup.
:kick:
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
39. Good analysis
as was Sherrod Brown's last night on Countdown. Brown is AFAIK one of the most liberal in Congress, I doubt anybody here would dispute that. But he is also a good politician who knows thatpolitics must deal with what is possible, and not push away the good because he cannot get the perfect. As he said, it's not a great bill (far from it), but a good bill that once passed can be further built upon. With no bill passed, there is nothing there to improve upon, and health care reform will not be taken up again for God only knows how MANY years. Why is this so difficult to understand to the purists here?
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #39
40. Some people prefer a glorious defeat to a compromise victory. There weren't the votes for what they
want but that reality seems to be irrelevant to them. The idea of "Get what you can and build on it in the future" is just failure to them. A few decades of leaving things the way they are is acceptable - because there is no way in hell this would be coming up again for a long time if it goes down to defeat.

Reminds me of this post:

The political cost of failure

Austin Frakt reminds me of a post I wrote in November that's relevant to this week's events. An excerpt:

Failure does not bring with it a better chance for future success. It brings a trimming of future ambitions.

Truman sought single payer. His failure led to Kennedy and Johnson, who confined their ambitions to poor families and the elderly. Then came Nixon, whose reform plan was entirely based around private insurers and government regulation. He was followed by Carter, who favored an incremental, and private, approach, and Clinton, who again sought to reform the system by putting private insurers into a market that would be structured and regulated by the government. His failure birthed Obama's much less ambitious proposal,
which attempts to reform not the health-care system, but the small group and nongroup portions of the health-care system by putting a small minority of private insurance plans into a market that's structured and regulated by the government, and closed off to most Americans.

Failure does not breed success. Obama's defeat will not mean that more ambitious reforms have "a better chance of trying again." It will mean that less ambitious reformers have a better chance of trying next time.



By Ezra Klein | December 15, 2009; 11:11 AM ET

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/12/the_political_cost_of_failure.html
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Inuca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #40
45. Ezra Klein is one smart young guy
(I thought he was older until I saw him on TV recently). It defies logic to argue that suffering a blistering defeat now will lead to a glorious victory tomorrow.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #39
49. This is called progress..just bc it's
not giant doesn't mean it's not.

Guess who are the real progressives.

I hate it that there's so many selfish idiots in the US Senate who would rather fatten their own bank account than help others but there it is.
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LatteLibertine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
41. As I understand it
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 01:04 PM by LatteLibertine
the fee for insurance companies dropping folks with certain conditions or refusing care will not be that high. In other words, they will still do it rather than the more expensive alternative.

As far as Lieberman goes, he's just another puppet of the corporations, as are most of the politicians in Washington.
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. Congress can raise it then. Once the framework is set it isn't nearly as hard to tinker around the
edges.
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Cleobulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
57. When are they going to "tinker" with it, 10 years down the road, 20, 30? n/t
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #57
60. Once the framework is set up, Congress tinkers with these programs all the time. It is the initial
set up that is so hard to get in place.
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budkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:46 PM
Response to Original message
46. Sorry Ezra, they did.
Stop trying to sugar coat this turd.
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Cant trust em Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. interesting. nt
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R
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Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:33 PM
Response to Original message
51. kick
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
52. Without a PO it's a giveaway to the Insurance industry. KILL IT!
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
53. Weren't so many on the so called left
complaining their heads off when the PO was in the Bill? Weren't they saying it wasn't good enough?

So now they want it?
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uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
54. If HCI is unaffordable what difference does a nice bill make?
Edited on Tue Dec-15-09 06:51 PM by uponit7771
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NC_Nurse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
55. K&R
:kick:
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cry baby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-15-09 10:06 PM
Response to Original message
58. KNR!
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:34 AM
Response to Original message
59. Pure unmitigated tripe. Why does this idiot think that insurance = health care?
Plenty of the people who are dead or bankrupt HAD INSURANCE. All Klein wants us to do is to force us to be slaves to insurance parasites.
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