Something is wrong with Arizona when a disturbed person can buy a handgun legally

[bigdarryl]

They need to take another look at those gun laws

[DrDan]

1. EXACTLY

[baldguy]

2. But so-called "law abiding gun owners" don't want to be held accountable for their actions.

And the weapons industry lobbyist NRA backs them.

[john donathon]

3. what would

you suggest the new law to be?

[RichGirl]

9. New law...old law..doesn't matter.

Existing laws need to be enforced. I have hunters and gun owners among my family and friends. Not one of them think that people should be able to buy guns without a background check. Even though many enjoy gun shows, they are disgusted by the fact that anyone can go in and buy a gun without a background check. No one should be able to buy a gun if they have a criminal record or mental illness. If someone was rejected from the army and thrown out of school for mental illness, that should go on their record even if there is no formal examination. That person should have to get an examination before they can purchase a gun.

That crazy person with a criminal record might one day point his gun at you or someone you love...think about that.

[atreides1]

4. One question

When was it determined by a licensed mental health professional that he was disturbed?

All we know is that the college he was attending required him to be certified as not a threat to himself or other students before he could return to school.


From all the evidence so far, he never sought counseling of any kind.

So, short of the "thought police", or forced mental evaluations, everything was in accordance with the current standards.

Sometimes living in a free society means things like this happen. But the alternative is much worse.

[RichGirl]

10. NO WAY!

We have technology now that we've never had before. If a school expells a person because they feel they are dangerous, if the army rejects somone, that needs to go on his record. Like pulling up a credit reference. Why go to extremes to make your point??? Of course we should not have forced mental evaluations. But, if someone goes to buy a gun and it's on his record that his mental health is in question...then it should be required...not forced...to get an examination before buying a gun! If he checks out okay, he's free to buy whatever he wants.

This does not infringe on anyone's rights. FREE SOCIETY doesn't mean that a person with a mental illness should be FREE to wave his gun around in a crowd. I can't use my debit card to buy a can of beans at the grocery store without having my credit checked out...does that mean we don't live in a free society?

When the world has evolved to the point where no one ever wants to do any harm to another person...then we can have total freedoms. Until then, we need laws, rules and regulations...and common sense.

[LisaL]

19. I agree that we have no information he ever was diagnosed

with anything. But judging form his behavior, I'd say it's a good guess he was disturbed.

[Warren Stupidity]

5. concealed carry is also just not a real good idea

but don't worry, the usual suspects will show up to tell us why we are wrong

[LAGC]

7. Would have making concealed carry illegal have prevented the shooting?

Something tells me if the shooter didn't have a problem breaking the law against MURDER, he'd have little problem breaking a law against concealed carry.

[Warren Stupidity]

15. He could at least have been stopped for carrying.

As the law stands in AZ, he was completely within his rights to walk into that crowd carrying a concealed weapon, and no amount of law enforcement would have stopped him from doing so.

[awoke_in_2003]

16. if he is carrying a "concealed" weapon...

then how would the cops know to stop him? You do know that concealed=hidden?

[jody]

6. 18USC922 "has not been adjudicated as a mental defective or been committed to a mental institution".

How would you change that law?

[rasputin1952]

8. I am not defending this guy, and certainly not his actions...

however, an FBI background check is just that, a background check. If there is no record of felony, misdemeanor or mental illness, nothing is going to show up.

When I was in the Army, I had a Top Secret clearance, and they went deep, talking to members of my extended family, checking back a couple of generations.

When purchasing a firearm legally, there are local and state checks as well. If there is no outstanding warrant(s), no record of criminal history, that's the end of it.

In this instance, there was nothing to show that this individual was a threat and the permit to purchase was issued. I lived in Northwestern AZ, and we all "packed", various firearms for different reasons. I had a .22 revolver w/snakeshot...nothing like stopping in the desert to take a leak and find a rattler 3 feet away. I had shotguns, a .45 M1911A1, a 30/30 Winchester and a 30.06 Browning. Except for a very few occasions other than target practice, did I fire any other them. One one occasion however, I ran into a "miner", who had a .38 pointed at me when I rounded rock formation. I backed down after a brief conversation, but I did surreptitiously pull my .45 as I headed out and kept looking back...you never know, especially 25 miles into the desert where one will never be found.

[Jennicut]

11. I think what happened here is he never got the psychological help he needed.

He would have not gotten the gun if he had an actual documentation of mental illness. No one stepped in, where was his family members when he was in high school? By 22 he was an adult and I know from experience (I have a psych degree) that you can't usually force an adult into being held against their will at a mental health facility.

[RichGirl]

12. Yes...

We need to learn from this and do something about it.

This is what is wrong with our society:

If you went to buy a gun with a credit card...your card would be checked out in a second. Would the seller still sell you the gun if your card were rejected...of course not. Just as much detail needs to go into other qualifications. If places like schools, army, employers question your mental stability, it should go on your record just like your credit. In that case, you should be required to get an exam if you want to buy a gun. It would also be helpful in other areas like childcare. A person hiring a nanny needs to know if the person is mentally ill.

I would think that any mentally ill person would want for someone to stop them before they did anything to devastate themselves or others.

[The Backlash Cometh]

13. You noticed that too?

[mimitabby]

14. sigh...

you know how hard it is to declare someone incompetent? in ANY state?

[aikoaiko]

17. What you're asking for would require the Federal government to track medical information of all

Are you ready to have your doctors submit this information on you and your loved ones?

[quiller4]

18. A "disturbed" person can buy a handgun legally anywhere in the

country so long as they have not been court ordered into mental health treatment. Arizona is not unique in this regard.

A NICS check is only a check of official records.

[jillan]

20. +1