"Will no one rid me of this troublesome priest"? Henry II didn't

[hedgehog]

murder Becket, the knights did. It can even be argued that Henry was only exaggerating, expressing his anger with Becket. Still, he was held responsible for Becket's death.

[Confusious]

1. 800 frikin' years ago

Do you want to go back to that time?

[hedgehog]

2. Gee, his son John signed the Magna Carta almost 800 frickin' years ago,

what could that possibly have to do with us today?

:eyes:

[Confusious]

8. Henry was before the Magna Carta

When the king could throw anyone into prison on a whim.

Which is I assume you are suggesting. Your reference to the Magna Carta is trying to change the argument to one which might be defensible.

[yodermon]

5. Human nature hasn't changed that much. n/t

[eppur_se_muova]

9. Those who do not learn from history, are doomed to repeat it.

Not to know what has been transacted in former times is to be always a child.—If no use is made of the labors of past ages, the world must remain always in the infancy of knowledge.

etc., etc.

[Newcanuck]

3. SP's Thomas a Beckett moment

At least Henry II acknowledged his own responsibility for the assassination and did penance for it. Do you think the ugly Sarah will?

[hedgehog]

6. Looking back, I find that I may be rooting for Henry on the issue

of Church vs. State. Extrajudicial killings of his opponents, not so much. Plus, I think he apologized not out of any sense of right and wrong but more in the face of public pressure.

[JNelson6563]

11. I disagree.

Remember, in the earlier days of their relationship, Henry and Beckett were great friends. They were well matched and made an awesome team. It was when Henry made him Archbishop things went awry as Beckett was an in-for-a-penny-in-for-a-pound guy. He would not relinquish church control over certain points of law. He and Henry were at a stalemate that lasted for years and caused a great deal of trouble.

I believe Henry was truly sorry about what happened, on a personal level, and knew the public penance he submitted to was necessary to stop the bloodshed going on. The coalition against him was using the Archbishop's death as their main justification.

Between him doing his penance and his amazing tactical skill in war, the coalition against him crumbled and the war ended.

Those were complicated times and Henry was an incredibly complicated man.

Julie

[hedgehog]

13. I was thinking about the dispute over turning clergy over to secular courts.

Apparently, a lot of bishops still haven't gotten the message that yes, indeed, clergy is subject to secular law!

[JNelson6563]

14. Well I certainly agree with you there!

:toast:

[Robb]

4. This post reminds me why I love DU. nt

[nemo137]

7. Someone suggested drawing Palin as Lady Macbeth

but I think the Henry II comparison is more apt.

[eppur_se_muova]

10. "Out, you gosh-darned spot!"

Now you've got that *voice* in my head ...

[CitizenLeft]

12. love the analogy

...and I can just hear Peter O'Toole screaming that with the spittle flying!