I gotta say I kind of agree with Gergen that the atmosphere in the Arena was wierd

[Perky]

Ultimately whatever Tuscon needs to do for a cathartic moment I have to support. Still the thunderous as opposed to polite, solemn applause when the President Walked in the room and when he was introduced was very disconcerting.

[dennis4868]

1. I did not get that at all....

the people of that city need something to cheer and release from all the bad shit they have had to endure since Saturday....it's perfectly understandable...

[Empowerer]

2. I saw it very differently

These people have been through an extremely difficult, painful week. I can imagine that it means the world to them that so many people care and it must have been incredibly moving for the President of the United States to come personally to pay tribute to their loved ones. I think their reaction - appreciation, pride, catharsis - was perfectly understandable.

[awoke_in_2003]

22. i agree with you. nt

[CTyankee]

65. Plus, there were a LOT of young people there and they must have been

genuinely excited to have the President come speak at their school. I know I would have when I was that age. Especially if many of them voted for him.

[bluestateguy]

3. Gergen can take that shit back to his Georgetown cocktail party where it belongs

They are trying (and will fail) to relive the Wellstone memorial backlash magic again.

[truebrit71]

24. +1. Who the hell is he to criticize how they choose to mourn and heal?

What a spectacular asshole..

[CTyankee]

66. Gergen is an old, cynical sour puss. He's been in Washington too long.

He's an old retread who just can't face the fact that he is a has been (or a never was, IMO). Folks like that just can't stand the young...they get agitated and need their meds...

[TwilightGardener]

4. Big crowds and big venues make for big reactions in the audience.

[kestrel91316]

5. I have always felt that applause at any memorial service was dicey at best,

and completely tacky at worst. Same here. BUT I am not going to presume to tell the good citizens of Tucson how to deal with this very traumatic event.

Obama's speech seemed to get people to tone the enthusiasm down and behave a bit more appropriately.

[Teaser]

6. who.the.fuck.cares?

it's their memorial.

[sweetloukillbot]

7. I'd also add that the people who are complaining the loudest...

Couldn't give a shit about it to begin with. The complaints remind me of a time when my grandfather was complaining about how much the Catholic church spent on bringing the Pope to Phoenix when they should be helping the homeless with that money. My dad, looking disgusted at him, said "Why do you care? You're not Catholic, and you don't give money to help the homeless."

That's kind of how I feel listening to people complain about this event. The only people who have a right to complain about the way the service was handled are the families of the victims.

[wisteria]

38. People are stating their opinions, not complaining and I am sure they do care, like myself.

No relection on our President, but I prefer more subdued memorials.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

9. Touche"

[SidDithers]

67. +1...nt

Sid

[harun]

78. No kidding. How dare anyone sit in judgment of someone elses

service.

It is why I didn't watch any of it. It is for them, they can do as they please without my commentary, or anyone else's.

[madmom]

8. How dare ANYONE be so presumptuous as to tell someone how to grieve!

[wisteria]

39. I don't think that was the point. However, you will have to admit that most memorials are more

subdued and somber occasions. This was just different and some people might have found it disrespectful based on their previous experiences.

[madmom]

54. From what I've read and heard it was a CELEBRATION of their life! It was

billed as a celebration, people have to get the proverbial sticks out of their asses.People celebrate, morn, remember all in their own unique special why and it IS presumptuous for anyone to tell another what is the RIGHT way to do it. I haven't heard any of the families complaining about it, only the key board commandos and talking heads.

[wisteria]

63. Well I suppose I am a keyboard commando. I didn't care for the rally atmosphere.

And, if people were morning my death I wouldn't want them clapping and shouting out loud. I go for the more respectfully traditional celebration of life and death. Not that I want to take anything away from the President's speech, it was great.

[rasputin1952]

76. Not to sound presumptuous...

but does it matter?

It is not up to the deceased, they are dead.

All things considered, when I leave, I want people to remember the good I brought into the world, (if any)...and that, (hopefully), would help people move on.

Look at some New Orleans funerals, it is mournful on the way to the grave site and jumping for joy on the way back, sort of shows the transition.

I think that in the end, it is more of sincerity of the living, those that carry on the memories.

[CakeGrrl]

10. So you're bugged at how excited they were to see the President?

Weird.

I suppose you said the same thing when he and Michelle were applauded at the Ft. Hood memorial.

People were glad to see him despite the circumstances. They expressed it.

What he did in return was totally appropriate - a very mild acknowledgement of the greeting rather than exhorting the crowd like a rally.

[ProSense]

11. Unlike Gergen

these people were there, including the family and friends of the victims.

[LynnTTT]

12. How about church

I am of the generation that believed you never applaud at a anything in a church. But in the past I realize that times change- people applaud choirs, Christmas carols etc. It's not disrespectful and it feels automatic to applaud the president when he enters a room.

[frazzled]

13. Yeah? Like at Paul Wellstone's Memorial?

We've heard this one before: criticizing people for celebrating the lives of the departed. It was too raucous, it was too political, it was unbecoming.

Paul Wellstone was my senator (though I'd moved to another state by the time he died). I enjoyed every moment of that memorial. I understood the people's, yes, spirited reaction to the sudden and tragic loss of one of their heroes.

Tonight I saw the same thing: a community coming together to celebrate its survival in the face of tragedy, to cheer on the heroes and root for the victims. To applaud the lives of the fallen. To cheer for the message of unity.

I thought it was totally appropriate. And don't let David Gergen bring up the old "Wellstone" canard this time.

[BlueMTexpat]

57. My first thought too at this inappropriate OP ...

and so the RW attempts to smear, spin and rewrite history begin ... .

:hi:

Gergen can take his opinion and shove it right where the sun don't shine.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

14. Yeah because it is Obama's fault. He should have taken control of the crowd.

He should have told them to just the hell up!

:sarcasm:

[madinmaryland]

15. Jesus H... This was a "celebration" of life (and lives). Gergen can go pound sand.

Remember that this was a CELEBRATION of life and what we can do as a country.

:wtf:

[OHdem10]

16. It is called Celebrating their lives, not mourning their deaths.

This is how today many people honor the passing.

I first noticed this when a Memorial Service was held
for Ron Browne, Clinton Adm.

[onenote]

17. My initial reaction was to be a bit surprised that it was not as solemn an event as I expected

based on how these sorts of events usually are conducted. But I wasn't offended by it, just didn't expect it. But it was clear pretty quickly that the audience and participants were there not just to mourn, but also to celebrate the coming together of their community and to celebrate the lives that were lost, the lives that were saved, the heroic efforts of many in the community, and the general coming together of the community. And that was very cool, imo.

[kwolf68]

18. This is how they'll get us

Republicans want to kill their political opponents and democrats (not that all of them yelling were) make noise and stuff.

[Ikonoklast]

19. Gergen can go piss up a rope.

Good thing he's never been to one of the wakes held by my extended family.

The last one we had was for one of the patriarchs of our extended clan, and lasted three days.

We had the monsignor in tears at the funeral home as we each told our stories, and it wasn't because he was sad.


It was epic.


People grieve in their own ways, and God forbid a stranger tell us how it should be done.


Like Gergen.

A stranger.

[phleshdef]

20. Not everyone wants to act like a total emo goth when honoring the dead.

[Whisp]

21. the applause police speak. you and Gergen have badges?

[Cali_Democrat]

23. The applause was disconcerting to you?

What would you have proposed to remedy this "disconcerting" situation? :shrug:

[ClassWarrior]

25. Why don't those first nine words surprise me?

"I gotta say I kind of agree with Gergen."

:eyes:

NGU.

[hedgehog]

26. It's not what I expected. An open air memorial with a broad cross

section of the community would probably have been very solemn. This memorial was held in a college arena, presumably with a lot of students attending. If you've attended any graduations recently, you will know that large groups of students tend to be rather raucous, no matter the event.

That said, they were there for all the right reasons.

[Jennicut]

27. I found the atmosphere hopeful and moving. Everyone choses their

own way to mourn someone who has died. The people there seemed to have needed this.

[WI_DEM]

28. I can see it now--some commentators trying to spin it the way they did the Wellstone Memorial

It won't work--none of the speakers said anything that could be taken as partisan.

[HeroTwins]

29. Gergen has shit for brains. He can't stand Obama.

The people applauding were from Tuscon.

They have the right to express and release some emotions that David Gergen just doesn't comprehend.

[PatSeg]

30. I have to say

I found it rather odd myself. I don't say that as criticism, but it is more an observation. The enthusiastic applause began way before the President entered the room and it just did not feel like a memorial service, more like a pep rally. I've never seen anything quite like it.

[HeroTwins]

32. have you ever been to a wake? sometimes it is better to celebrate their lives

than to mourn their deaths

[PatSeg]

33. Oh I agree

As I said, my comment was not meant as a criticism, more an observation. It caught me off-guard, as I may been expecting a more solemn service in my mind.

[BlueMTexpat]

58. Absolutely - at my late parents' celebrations of life, we laughed ourselves

to tears ... and it was incredibly cathartic and healing. But their deaths were in the more natural order of things; they were in their 80s and we all had had time to say good-bye.
If I had lost someone in circumstances like these, I would want to do everything I could to feel part of a greater community and, in my opinion, this ceremony did exactly that.
I know that I would be extremely resentful of some far-away "pundit" who thought that my mourning style was inappropriate. Who on earth does he think he is?

[FloriTexan]

44. I agree...

It was odd at first and I felt the other speakers were unsure what to think of it, including Obama, but somehow they maintained an attitude appropriate to a memorial despite the crowd. By the end of the service I was ready to applaud, clap and cry right along with all of them.

[onecent]

31. It was ABOLUTELY PERFECT. I don't believe it could have gone any better. n/t

[aikoaiko]

34. There was too much UA pep rally stuff going on.

Never let an University President be the MC. The university PR people write everything he will say.

The president's speech and the other speeches were generally very good, but it was weird for me too

[Empowerer]

37. Have you ever been to a black funeral?

If yesterday's service was weird for you, that would likely freak you out.

Different people memorialize differently. This was how the people in Tucson chose to do it and I respect them.

And, frankly, what I find even weirder is that the media would descend upon that city like a traveling circus, set up camp, disrupt all kinds of activities, stick microphones in grieving and injured people's faces ("how did you FEEL when you realized you'd been shot?"), pull doctors away from their patients several times a day and grill them like they were football coaches at a post-Super Bowl presser - and THEN have the nerve to second-guess how these poor people choose to grieve and memorialize their friends and loved ones, sneering at them from their director's chair perches that they didn't behave "appropriately" for the occasion.

Good Lord.

[aikoaiko]

41. Well, i have and I really didn't see the people who provided the venue promote themselves

like the UA President did.

There was too much UA promotion from the University President, in my opinion. A little to much about UA at places.

You could tell the person who wrote the university president's speech was working off of a graduation ceremony script when they introduce the commencement speakers.

Good lord, indeed.

[Empowerer]

45. Well, maybe next time, you can go in and plan the event and write the speeches

to make sure that they are just right . . .

[aikoaiko]

46. Its pretty easy to not mention yourself. ;-)

[JoePhilly]

43. I agree with you ... see my post #42

[wisteria]

35. I agree! n/t

[butterfly77]

36. What Gergen doesn't like is..

the fact that many people still like President Obama dispite all of the dirt he and his gang have thrown at him. Some people were just so excited to be able to see him in person although, they were there for the celebration of their lives and memorial..

[otohara]

40. Oh Brother

the crowd didn't behave the way YOU and BRIT HUME wanted.

Never go to a Jewish funeral, they too celebrate the life of the person, vs somber, sad.

[JoePhilly]

42. I worked in a Cemetery for a number of years during high school and

then after that as a way to make money while in college.

So I got to setup, attend, and then clean up after, a few thousand funerals. And so nothing surprises me in this area.

Here are a few examples ...

At one funeral, "Smokin Joe Frazier" was in the mourning party. Before and after the service, people were asking him for his autograph.

During one funeral in the winter after a big snow, after the service, many of the mourners, as they returned to their cars, broke into a snowball fight. As I stood there, a woman who was walking past me, and saw my wide-eyed look said ... "Jim would have loved this."

At another, an Asian man was being buried, I think he may have been Korean (not sure). They had us lower the coffin during the service while 3 women wearing brightly colored, flowing robs wailed and threw dirt onto the coffin as the coffin descended. Meanwhile, some one else was burning a pile of colorful money. After the service, the people stayed and ate what looked like cooked medium sized chickens, with the heads still on. They also gave out cans of orange soda and mountain dew.

It was common for African American funerals to break into song. And very common for folks there to break into groups who would joke and laugh.

White protestant funerals tended to be the most "solemn", and at times, honestly, dark affairs. While at some funerals, you could feel "life", at some of these, I felt surrounded by death. I didn't like these.

The Greek funerals had their own style, usually Catholic, but very different from the Irish Catholic funerals.

And the Italian American funerals often had their own flavor.

The Cemetery had a large veterans section. Funerals there often included a military tribute. 21 gun salutes. Taps.

While I was there, a number of Philly cops were killed and buried. As you might imagine, a funeral for police officers killed in duty has its own feeling. Police from all over, plus politicians, plus news media.

We buried a set of teenage girls who died in a fire. During the service, some of their friends tried to jump into the graves.

And, we buried children. Lots of them. The suffering at these was probably the worst. Kids hit by cars. Kids who got some illness.

As I think of the events in Tuscon, I can see many of the same kinds of diverse reactions to death and how groups of people deal with it.

[Empowerer]

47. This is SO interesting - thanks for taking the time to write it

At my beloved grandfather's gravesite service, my cousins got a horrible case of the giggles because the minister could barely be heard over the music from a nearby carnival . . . but no one got angry about it because we all knew that, had he been there, my grandfather would have laughed harder than anyone.

[JoePhilly]

51. I have dozens of stories from that time ...

I keep threatening to write a book.

On the personal side of this ...

My last grandparent, my mom's mom "Gram Ellie", passed away about 8 years ago. And during her memorial, the minister, who had never actually met her, gave a very nice talk about what her family members had told him about her.

No one had mentioned to him that "Gram Ellie" had a mouth on her. She was loud. She could be rude. She had no boundaries. She said what ever she thought in the moment. Take it or leave it, you knew where she stood. At times, it was a wonderful trait. At times, it was extremely hurtful and even mean.

At the end of his talk, the minister said "Would anyone else like to say a few words" ... and all remained quiet.

I leaned over to my sister, and I whispered, "I'm surprised Gram Ellie didn't sit up and make a statement". My sister began to giggle.

As it turned out ... a number of other people heard my comment ... and along with my sister, they began to giggle.

The minister heard the giggles, and you could see on his face he was not pleased. Others who didn't hear what I said had angry looks on their faces. Not at me, but at the gigglers.

So, I raised my hand and said, "I'd like to say something". And I told the minister, and everyone else, the same thing I had said to my sister.

That when he said "Would anyone else like to make a statement" ... my immediate expectation was that Gram Ellie would sit up and make one. Because she never held back before, why would she now.

All of the angry faces started to laugh, most nodding. Some one else said, "I thought that too!!!"

It was hilarious. From that moment on, the event went from a sad, solemn event, to a rollicking reflection on the entirety of Gram Ellie.

[BlueMTexpat]

59. Please do write a book - you have talent! nt

[zulchzulu]

48. If there was no applause, Gergan would have said Obama's message was recieved badly

See how it works!

Always an anti-Obama spin at the ready.... :crazy:

[WellsStreetHell]

49. it's Arizona

There are some strange lookin' people in that arena and that state.

[muffin1]

55. Strange lookin' people?

Umm...ok...:eyes:

[Skittles]

74. certainly strange folk posting on DU

:D

[golfguru]

50. Do you mean more of a pep rally than a memorial service atmosphere?

[vaberella]

52. People didn't want to be upset dude. They wanted to come together and look at the happy side.

Not the negative. This was a memorial...not a wake.

[bigwillq]

53. I thought the service was wonderful.

Heartbreaking and sad at times, but also uplifting and inspiring.
It was a moment that was needed for those families, that city, that state, and this country to help the healing process.

[muffin1]

56. Jesus. Speaking as someone who has issues with many things Obama has done,

this is a NON-issue. First, it wasn't solely a memorial service, it was also a celebration of life and an acknowledgment of the heroes of that day. Second, nobody should judge how other people survive such an ordeal.

Even Elisabeth Hasselbeck and Joey Scarborough told people to STFU about this.

Ridiculous.

[Skittles]

70. I absolutely agree

I was also taught it is never good form to try to measure someone's grief - different people handle things, well, differently. I saw nothing wrong with what the Tuscon folk did, and I think Obama's speech was wonderful. And certainly I am also someone who has had MANY issues with Obama.

[Swede]

60. The audience was "weird"? The speakers "weird"?

What are you implying?

[GSLevel9]

61. you could tell by the look on Obama's face that he was uncomfortable

with the "enthusiastic" atmosphere.

[wisteria]

64. I thought I picked up on that a little also. n/t

[Warren Stupidity]

62. Spun by the spin.

clue up perky, gergen is a paid political hack.

[AtomicKitten]

68. Jon Stewart: "Have you ever been to an Irish wake?"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/14/stewart-arizona-memorial_n_808985.html

[opihimoimoi]

69. Me thinks he did GOOD.....More than good.....he spoke of peace and silver linings...

[jenmito]

71. I'm glad Jon Stewart did a segment on how the "pundints" (as Palin called them)

had the NERVE to criticize the way the audience behaved when expressing THEIR feelings. NOBODY has the right to criticize the crowd's reaction. I'm GLAD they were so happy (and willing to show it) when the "Comforter in Chief" came out.

[jenmito]

72. You never saw a New Orleans funeral? You'd be REALLY creeped out. n/t

[Odin2005]

73. The thunderous applause happed for the same reason Obama is getting away with corporatist BS.

The dangerous power of charisma is fooling the masses.

[jenmito]

75. You forgot the sarcasm thingy...

or you forgot the address of the website where you REALLY belong.

[rasputin1952]

77. I think that all of these services, regardless of what they are called...

are for the living, after all, the individual is already dead, they are already on the journey we all must take.

If I knew I would be dead in say 3 months, I'd be telling people old stories of the times we had together, the jokes, the laughs. I don't want people to see me as some kind of downer, I want people to celebrate and get on with their lives.

I've spent a good part of my life around death, it's never a "pleasant" thing, but I've seen the rates at how people recover from the loss between different situations. Those that celebrate the individual recover far faster than those who who carry the death around like a millstone.

I can't tell anyone how to grieve or celebrate, in the end though, we all get to be recycled through the system. Even in our deaths, we sustain life in many ways.

[texshelters]

79. I saw the speech and live in Tucson (I was showing to a night class) and

I have to say that the cheering at certain moments was unreal. But, the cheering for the Daniel Rodriguez and those that tackled the man, that Giffords opened her eyes, and other moments was fine.

Peace,
Tex Shelters

[Beacool]

80. Yep, at times it resembled a political rally.

It was not due to Obama or the families of the bereaved, it was the students on the bleachers. Someone should have talked to them before the event and told them that continuous wild cheering at a memorial service is not appropriate behavior. Although there were some exceptions where cheering was acceptable, such as when Obama announced that Giffords had opened her unbandaged eye.

Totally different atmosphere than Holbrooke's memorial.

:eyes: