Hey! Here's an idea ... MSNBC can replace KO with a person of color!

[Empowerer]

Yes, I know it's a revolutionary, outside of the box notion - the idea of introducing a black person into the ranks of such legendary hosts as Eliot Spitzer. But, as LBJ said when he appointed Thurgood Marshall to the Supreme Court - "It's time."

I'm sure if they search really, really, really hard, they can manage to find SOMEONE qualified ... Joe Madison, Michael Baisden, Tavis Smiley, Melissa Harris-Perry, Eugene Robinson, Donna Brazile, Al Sharpton, Jeff Johnson, Steve Harvey, Bev Smith, Ed Gordon, George Curry, Kweisi Mfume.

And that's just off the top of my head ...

[mucifer]

1. I totally agree!!!

[Enrique]

2. Cenk Uygur would be the obvious choice

:bounce:

[Empowerer]

5. Really? Why?

And why aren't any of the people I listed also "obvious choices?"

[rucky]

6. If KO was fired for his rants...

Uygur would be canned in 2 days. The man can rant!

[Enrique]

7. 'Kiss my Muslim ass'

this is from his Youtube show, wouldn't it be great to see this on TV?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x491711#492029

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMynufzD9dI


At 1:52 he says: "...F U Debbie Schlussel, F U and everything that you stand for, OK?. Kiss my muslim ass - not on the left, not on the right, but right in the middle, you know, that crunchy brown part...OK?...get right in there, you b***h...OK?, you want to talk about how I'm not American? You're not American, you don't understand what America means, OK?..."

Classic, Cenk, classic. I loved it.

[sallyseven]

47. Uygur is full of shit and sneers all the time

[forty6]

104. what is Cenk "full of shit" about? I really don't see that at all. n/t

[jenmito]

112. He said Obama is more conservative than Reagan among saying other stupid things. n/t

[tridim]

3. They're probably already eying Ron Christie and Michael Steele

I don't think you quite understand what Comcast just did.

[MadBadger]

19. They added Cenk at 6, moved Ed to 10, and Odonnell to 8. So no conservatives

[Empowerer]

33. and no black people either, still

Amazing.

Funny - there seems to be so much concern on DU about the lineup not being progressive enough, but hardly any concern at all about its continued and blatant the fact that it's STILL "all-white all night"

But sadly, that's consistent with the notion held by some that there are progressives and there are black people and the two are mutually exclusive.

[MadBadger]

37. Cenk is a person of color btw, not all people of color are black (problem with your list)

[hileeopnyn8d]

127. He's Turkish

Turks are Caucasian.

[rucky]

4. Tavis Smiley & Dr. West were on Morning Joe last week

(MLK Day) They were excellent together - a dream team of clear & engaging intellect. That's the kind of TV I'd want to see.

[elias49]

8. Cornell West? Get serious.

As a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, he's never pass muster.
Besides the fact that he's a wild man!
Dream your crazy dream!

[butterfly77]

24. He isn't wild..

many just can't handle the truth backed up with facts.

[awoke_in_2003]

29. "Besides the fact that he's a wild man!"...

i like that "wild man"

[Enrique]

11. I'd love to see Cornel West be the new face of MSNBC

CNN goes one way with Piers Morgan, MSNBC goes the a different way...

[proud2BlibKansan]

66. ROFLMAO

Love it! :rofl:

[Empowerer]

9. Why would anyone on a progessive Democratic site unrec a post calling for diversity?

Very sad and very telling ...

[Enrique]

14. I didn't unrec it, but I didn't like your list

I didn't recognize every name, but the ones I did recongize made me groan, especially when talking about replacing Keith Olbermann. Donna Brazile replacing Keith Olbermann? Why would a progressive want that? Because she's black?

[Empowerer]

15. If you don't like the list, please suggest some other people

I'm a progressive and I think Donna Brazile would be great - and not because she's black but because she's an interesting, intelligent, accomplished liberal Democrat with a tremendous professional, political and personal background.

But if you have any other suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them - my list was certainly not a finite one.

[Supersedeas]

65. Ron Christie, Ken Blackwell, Alan Keyes, JC Watts...what?...not black enough for you?

[butterfly77]

25. She is too weak...

[chimpymustgo]

62. Karen Finney. Already a frequent daytime contributor. Better for you?

[Enrique]

64. she's another flack, just like Donna Brazile

I don't mean it as an insult, but that's their profession. They get paid for mouthing things that benefit their clients. Why would anyone want to watch flacks of whatever race?

[chimpymustgo]

72. Oh good grief.

[Supersedeas]

78. who knows...

[Bad Thoughts]

10. Can brown apply?

What about Jorge Ramos?

[Empowerer]

13. He'd be great, too! nt

[soleft]

12. If they do it will probably be Michael Steele

[OHdem10]

16. Did I hear Lawrence ODonnell will move into Keith's slot???

Big Ed will move to 10pm AC 360

[barbiegeek]

17. Lester Holt is already employed by MSNBC

Harvey & Sharpton, as much as I love them, are not Journalists. We need Al in politics & Harvey is a comedian & unqualified.

Lester Holt is an AA, employed by MSNBC, a journalist with credentials, and has been working his butt off.

I'd rather have Keith

[Empowerer]

20. Schultz, Maddow, O'Donnell, Spitzer weren't journalists either

Why is a comedian any less qualified than a blogger, sports reporter or former politician?

One of the problems in overcoming racial barriers is the imposition of arbitrary standards that limit the qualifying pool to venues that themselves have been historically exclusionary. That's one of the ways the media has managed to perpetuate the lack of diversity we see.

There is nothing magical about being a journalist that makes that one occupation more qualified to host a cable show. But making that a threshold qualification all of a sudden - when it hasn't heretofore been one - would make it easier to maintain the whites only status quo.

[barbiegeek]

21. What is wrong with Lester Holt?

He's a brilliant man. He's African American. He already works at MSNBC

[Empowerer]

22. Who said there's anything wrong with him?

[butterfly77]

26. Too weak

[Vattel]

18. Most of these would be better than KO. (I'm not a big fan of KO)

[butterfly77]

23. Bob Herbert..

[onpatrol98]

27. No...not Bob Herbert

I love Bob Herbert. I think he's too classy for the gig. To me, his credentials and intellect crowd out the field and would be unappreciated. I think people would prefer someone loud, obnoxious, and partisan. To me, Bob Herbert is the ultimate professional. When he talks, you know it's legitimate and not for a tingle up a leg, or a cheap shot thrill. I wouldn't want to see him in the late night chatter role. But, I can why he would make the list. The guy has intellectual heft.

[butterfly77]

30. But,he gets to the point..

no beating around the bush.

[kjackson227]

28. If they're not willing to allow a white male progressive continue with his show...

what makes you think they would allow a person of color with the same progressive view have one???

[Empowerer]

34. That's a new twist

Are you suggesting that a black person should be given a chance to host because one white guy didn't keep his show?

Rachel Maddow, Lawrence O'Donnell and Ed Schultz seem to be doing just fine.

But hey, let's not consider a black host because he or she might not be treated fairly. Instead, let's just keep giving the gig to white people.

Please ...

[kjackson227]

36. No, that's what YOU are saying. My point is what difference...

does it make whether the person is of color or white if they both have the same progressive view point? Personally, I don't care what color the individual is as long as they are capable of progressing the message.

[Empowerer]

38. Race matters when they have the same viewpoint but there are no black people on the air

Or at least it does if you really care about progressive principles, one of which is a commitment to racial and gender diversity.

[kjackson227]

39. I don't understand your point. All I'm saying is that MSNBC fired...

Olbermann because he was too progressive. I doubt very seriously that they will hire a progressive person of color with the same viewpoint just to meet a quota. However, I would like to see Tavis Smiley with a show on MSNBC (but,not to replace Keith). I doubt it will happen because he too is too progressive.

[Empowerer]

41. My point is that fear that MSNBC won't hire a progressive black person

is not a valid reason for progressives to fail to demand that they do so. Backing off based on that reason is the very basis and perpetuation of institutionalized racism. Change won't happen unless we refuse to buy into the "it won't happen because they won't lket it happen so let's not even try.

Remember back in 2006, 2007 and 2008 when we were told that it was foolish to support Barack Obama because "America's just not ready to elect a black president?"

Well ...

[MadBadger]

42. You do know they gave Cenk a show at 6PM, right?

Or does he not count as a person of color?

[Empowerer]

43. No - he doesn't count. He's white

Being Turkish does not make one a "person of color."

Instead of folks twisting themselves into knots trying turn white people into "people of color" in order to justify the exclusion of blacks, why not just push MSNBC to hire a black host?

[MadBadger]

45. There really are no words to respond to this stupidity

[boppers]

49. I can try!

"Ignore" exists for a reason.

[Supersedeas]

75. He doesn't count cause he's not colored enough?

[11 Bravo]

125. That could be the single dumbest fucking thing I've read on this board in my 9 years here.

[Common Sense Party]

113. Is KO more progressive than Rachel Maddow?

Why hasn't she been fired?

[polmaven]

31. Ohhhh!

I think Eugene Robinson or Donna Brazile would be excellent as a replacement. Not going to measure up completely, but either could come close.

[jzodda]

32. That would be fine

However-I do not care who they put there: Regardless of color or gender or whatever: What we need at 8pm on MSNBC is somebody who can and will be a leader of the progressive movement. Thats all I ask for: Right now I feel that Keith is almost irreplaceable in the role he assumed. He has become a true national leader and the timing of this is soooo lousy. We needed him there more than ever and they found a way to rid themselves of him.

[Empowerer]

35. How do you define "leadership?"

I agree that Olbermann was a strong voice, but I don't and never did see him as a "leader." He did no organizing, no policy development or in-depth analysis, no reaching out to or even really influencing anyone beyond his very narrow audience, etc.

I don't look to cable news for leadership and don't need a "leader" in the 8 o'clock slot. I just want to be informed.

[elizm]

40. I vote for Eugene Robinson! nt

[Arkana]

44. Give Eugene Robinson his own show.

He's smart, funny, and manages to do it without being bombastic.

[greymattermom]

69. Perfect

Eugene Robinson= perfect

[kurtzapril4]

46. I just want someone really smart,

progressive, and with the fire in their belly. Along with the fire in the belly, they should be able to rationally articulate that fire. And I don't give a hoot what race or nationality they are...there are people who fit that description of all races and nationalities working as journalists today. The best woman/man who fits the progressive criterion is the one who should have the job. JMO.

[Supersedeas]

48. why not Ken Blackwell, Alan Keyes, Michael Steele, or Ron Christie

A person of color would be quite revolutionary to fill the shoes of KO

[Empowerer]

50. If they can find a white progressive, surely they can find a black one ...

[Supersedeas]

51. So something more than color matters....

Makes me wonder what other litmus test have to be satisfied...

[Empowerer]

54. Given the presence of Maddow, Scarborough, Matthews, Ratigan

apparently the current benchmark litmus test is that they be white - since that's the only thing these people seem to have in common.

[MadBadger]

55. They hired Martin Bashir, he's Pakastani. Tamron Hall is a dayside anchor, shes black

[Supersedeas]

67. sssshhhhhhh, don't lef the facts get in the way of demagogy

What is the name of the lady who most often substituted for KO during his absences....mmmmmm....Allison Stewart....nevermind

Ron Christie will fit the qualifications that matter for those who know that substance follows skin color.

[MadBadger]

70. Hey, I was told Cenk was white by the OP

ridiculous

[Supersedeas]

71. Allison Stewart is not colored enough either, I bet.

[Empowerer]

73. Alison Stewart would be an outstanding choice

It's interesting that, even though I made clear that my list was not exhaustive - that it was off the top of my head - some people are behaving as if it is a finite list and that I have deemed that anyone on it isn't black enough or not qualified to host a show.

It's also interesting how some folk are nit-picking the qualifications of the people on the list, subjecting them to rather harsh scrutiny to determine if they are qualified, and recommending white people who some seem to think are "of color" because they are not of Anglo Saxon heritage.

[Supersedeas]

79. You do know that Alison Stewart has been a long time stand-in for KO

My point was that your less than comprehensive list was missing someone who has already been given an opportunity.

Either you are blatantly ignoring that there have already been people of color hosting these shows, or you don't care. Are these facts getting in the way of your narrow reactionary view of the world? Or am I nit-picking too?

What is interesting is how you keep constructing strawmen as substitutes for argument instead of substantiating a position that you can't defend. What's interesting is how your provocations (posing as argument) continually morph into new threads with new strawmen of your own creation. Now "some folk are nit-picking." Your point was that black hosts have never been given a chance and yet Allison Stewart apparently rings no bells for you.

That is interesting. Just so you know, Allison Stewart already had a go at it...and that didn't come off the top of your head? Odd.

By the way, I hate to burst that narrow reactionary bubble of yours, but not every Anglo Saxon's is white either (Anglos come in a variety of flavors).

[EffieBlack]

80. For someone who's bitching about 3 threads being started on this topic

you're expending a lot of time and effort chasing her around from thread to thread commenting on them. You've inserted yourself more than a dozen times - 9 in this thread alone.

Rather than complain about her raising the issue, you probably should thank the OP for giving you a forum in which to vent - your cup obviously runneth over.

:-)

[AspenRose]

83. Remind them of the "taxicab test."

"...recommending white people who some seem to think are "of color" because they are not of Anglo Saxon heritage."

Remind them of the "taxicab test."

If an ethnic white person can catch a cab when a black or hispanic person cannot, then yes they're white enough for TV. Because the *average person* watching isn't going to care if they're WASP or Turkish. They're only going to see it's a white person.

[MadBadger]

86. Well Cenk looks either Middle Eastern or Hispanic to me, not white at all

[Empowerer]

88. dupe

[MadBadger]

89. "About Whether a White man"

Your a broken record that is always wrong.

[Empowerer]

90. Or Italian or Greek . . .

It's very interesting that a discussion about integrating the primetime lineup with a person of color (i.e., black, Latino, Asian, Eastern Indian) had devolved into an argument about whether a white man should be selected as the one to integrate the all-white group because as a non-Anglo-Saxon he should be counted as a person of color.

How bizarre. And we wonder why black and brown folks get frustrated - white folks get all of the slots and when we try to get just one of them, other white people are shoved in front of us because their names or slightly swarthier complexion makes some people believe they can be passed off as a person of color.

[MadBadger]

52. What about a Hispanic Progressive? Or an Asian One?

How bout an Arab one?

[MadBadger]

53. Though no turkish ones of course, because they're whities!

:eyes:

[AspenRose]

82. I bet he'd pass the "Taxicab test." (Unlike our president.)

Which would make him "white enough" for TV. Ethnic white is still white.

Please read "How the Irish Became White"

http://www.amazon.com/Irish-Became-White-Routledge-Classics/dp/0415963095/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295840866&sr=1-1

or perhaps "Working Toward Whiteness"

http://www.amazon.com/Working-Toward-Whiteness-Americas-Immigrants/dp/0465070744/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1295840866&sr=1-2

[golfguru]

56. They are all right wing...that fails them all n/t

[CreekDog]

57. your people of color list only includes African Americans

fail. :thumbsdown:

[Empowerer]

58. Very interesting that you seem more concerned that my list of potential replacements

is all black than about the fact that their current primetime lineup is all white.

You demand racial diversity in the "people of color" candidate pool (even though my list contained only suggestions but was not a finite one), yet don't seem to have a problem with the blatant lack of diversity in the actual hiring.

[Supersedeas]

60. and yet the shrinking diversity of IDEAS with Conservatives voices drowning out all others

seems less pressing to you than have someone of COLOR replace the all white line-up

If Ken Blackwell or Alan Keyes or Ron Christie satsify your NEED for diversity, then maybe we should all put on the colored glasses and ignore the conservative bias in the media.

If replacing the entire "white line-up" with 'colored' replacements is the only job qualification that matters to you, then what do you think they'd do to accomodate your need for a strict racial prerequisite...given the trend in limiting the substantive IDEAS that are expressed?

[CreekDog]

61. nice try

i want the DC establishment press to look like America, in terms of race, religion (and lack thereof), income and political opinion. that should change now.

but changing it to an all black lineup of mostly DC connected journos wouldn't solve that problem --i think it would help but not enough.

[AspenRose]

85. To the OP's credit they did say "off the top of their head"

so I was not under the impression it was an extensive list. And if the OP is black then it would make sense that they would post black journalists off of the top of their head first.

[CreekDog]

91. really? a person will naturally only think of people from their own race?

really? i don't think so.

if they are in the majority, perhaps, but among minority groups? i doubt that.

[Empowerer]

92. It's interesting you're more concerned that my spontaneous list of "people of color"

contains only black people than you are with the fact that the cable networks have excluded ALL people of color from hosting their primetime shows - while hiring ONLY white people to sit in their nightime anchor chairs.

It's funny how that blatant lack of diversity goes unnoticed and uncriticized - until someone points it out and suggests it be corrected. Then, lo and behold, those who couldn't care less about the racial discrimination that benefits white folk suddenly become diversity experts and civil rights crusaders demanding that the pool of proposed candidates be perfect, pristine and flawlessly inclusive. And they do their best to hijack and redirect the discussion away from the real problem to an inane dialogue about the motivations of the people who have the temerity to question the status quo, calling them and their proposed solution "racist," applying standards to their recommended alternatives that the current incumbents have never faced, and obsessively nit-picking the list as if who's on and not on it somehow excuses the entrenched racial exclusion and white entitlement on primetime cable news and undercuts the need to correct it.

No wonder it's difficult to achieve true diversity in this country.

[CreekDog]

93. then why are you playing games with the "people of color" term?

because when you said all hosts should be African American, you got criticized?

so you rewrite your OP's title to say that you want hosts to be people of color.

but then you only include African Americans on the list --in other words, you're trying to get credit for rethinking things but haven't changed a single idea from your first OP.

[Empowerer]

107. Ok- you've nit-picked to death my choice of language, now address my point

Do you think it would be good for MSNBC to make the effort to integrate its primetime lineup by hiring a black or brown or yellow or red host to replace Keith Olbermann?

If not, why not?

Do you think it's a problem for MSNBC to have only white hosts for its primetime shows?

If not, why not?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this.

And, by the way, I did not edit my OP to change black to "people of color.". In fact, the OP wasn't edited at all - what you're reading now is exactly what I originally wrote. But you should have known that, given the lack of an edit notice on the post.

[CreekDog]

111. yes I support that idea

And your op was not edited but you posted the same idea again with slightly different wording.

[Number23]

121. Oh girl, TELL IT!

TELL IT. :applause: :applause: :applause:

[AspenRose]

94. Um, if they're thinking about PEOPLE OF COLOR specifically

It makes perfect sense to think of those you're most familiar with, and probably listen to/watch/read on a regular basis.

Off the top of your head, of course.

There is a whole subculture of black media out there, apart from the tokens you see in the majority white MSM, that blacks plug into regularly. Ditto for hispanic media.

I wouldn't expect the typical black person to first think of people in hispanic media off the top of their heads unless they happen to be immersed in both cultures (which isn't typical).

I wouldn't expect a hispanic to *first* think of blacks in media off the top of their heads in a similar situation, unless the same thing applied.

That's perfectly reasonable. AND I see the "person of color" inclusion to be an admission that they are mainly familiar with their own specific ethnic group, but would love to see it for any other group of color.

The OP is black and so can only best identify and speak on what they're familiar, but are keeping the door open for others. That's how I read it anyway. Better they do that than to launch into talking about areas they know nothing about (hispanic and asian media).

Based on the responses, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. Had they just said "black people" from the beginning, people would jump on them. But they were trying to be inclusive by saying "people of color," not attempting to talk about other ethnic groups of color they were not familiar with...and got jumped on anyway.

[CreekDog]

95. I think you're stereotyping

to suggest that people think of only their own race first is stereotyping.

[AspenRose]

96. I did say average person.

Not the stellar exceptions to the rule here at the DU.

I don't understand the proclivity to jump to conclusions thinking anyone is talking about them specifically when someone says "average person."

I doubt the *average white person* knows who Tom Joyner is. Would it be considered a stereotype to harbor that opinion?

I doubt the *average black person* knows who Jorge Ramos is. Am I stereotyping?

I also didn't say that people think of their own race first. I said they think of the media they saturate themselves with first. If a black person is saturated with black media first and foremost, then it's perfectly understandable that they would think of black media figures before anyone else.

What I said: "It makes perfect sense to think of those you're most familiar with, and probably listen to/watch/read on a regular basis." If you're black and listen to MSM most, you'll be more familiar with white media than black. If you're black and live in the RGV of Texas you probably are more familiar with hispanic media than black as well.

Based on what the OP said, I'm guessing they are very familiar with black media, which is why it came up first. And there's nothing wrong with that. They also left the door open to acknowledge other minorities by using the broad term "people of color."

AND in saying "people of color" they are talking about visible minorities (people of differing color), not ethnic (who can visibly pass for white) ones.

[CreekDog]

98. yes, that's precisely what stereotyping is: saying the "average" black person will naturally...

...black media personalities, the "average" hispanic person will naturally name hispanic (heck that's not even a group!) media personalities, and on and on.

living in an Asian/Pacific Islander neighborhood as I do, and where I grew up, the idea that the "average" one naturally only thinks of people in their own group is ridiculous. people within one "group" are as different as the day is long.

[AspenRose]

99. Then I will go back to my social work professor and tell her she's wrong, then.

With your permission and blessing.

[CreekDog]

101. I have no idea what your sociology professor said

but I'd be surprised if he/she stereotyped.

also, i find your explanation laughable about the OP citing only African Americans as potentials for "people of color" slots: 1) you're assuming the OP is African American 2) you're assuming they wouldn't think of a hispanic/asian media personality 3) you're further defending them by saying, well African Americans are "visibly" people of color --are you saying that Hispanics and Asians are not?

Jeez, what a mess. Just stop. This is all starting to sound like an intellectual version of Archie Bunker. You think you're being fair but you're not.

:hi:

[kwassa]

110. I think you are digging yourself into a very deep hole ...

Your original point was trivial to start out with, and now you make it worse by projecting issues into it that weren't there in the first place!

Can't admit you are wrong, can you?

This really takes the cake

Jeez, what a mess. Just stop. This is all starting to sound like an intellectual version of Archie Bunker.

No, you just said something dumb, and are very busy compounding that.

[CreekDog]

117. my original point was not to reduce diversity to black and white

racial and ethnic diversity should not exclude or ignore (in this case) the large number of people who are people of color. that was my complaint, it's valid, you kept defending the OP's intentions and in the process you ended up saying the things about what African Americans and Hispanics "think" --saying things that are stereotypes of racial minorities.

and that's where i began to argue less with the OP's take and more with yours because i thought your stated viewpoint to be stereotypical and harmful.

[CreekDog]

100. .

.

[Empowerer]

103. Very well said

This entire exercise - particularly the obsession with minutae while the problem we're attempting to address is completely ignored - is very instructive.

It's quite fascinating to watch people who apparently couldn't care less that these networks so blatantly exclude "people of color," yet focus endless time and energy over whether an OP mentioned a Hispanic name in a non-exhaustive list of "people of color" - as if they are desperately devoted to protecting and ensuring full inclusion of minorities in the political arena.

And it's just as interesting that they do this un-sel-consciously, with a full confidence that they are more open-minded, progressive and all-inclusive than those who really know what we're talking about.

White entitlement in full bloom in the progressive garden is a fascinating thing to see.

[CreekDog]

102. that's what the OP said, "a person of color" then named a list of them

:hi:

[Sancho]

59. Al Sharpton would be excellent...

KO will show up somewhere else...so if you're a fan don't worry. I'd love to see Al with his own show.

[forty6]

105. Al Sharpton? You want MSNBC to close up shop? I can't stand to

hear him lecture.

[Empowerer]

108. A lot of people feel that way about Ed Schultz, Dylan Ratigan and Joe Scarborough

But that hasn't stopped THEM from getting shows.

No host is going to be loved by everyone. But it's long past time for MSNBC and CNN to break the color barrier.

[Ter]

63. Sure, how's Alan Keyes?

n/t

[Empowerer]

68. Don't be ridiculous

But your response exposes a mindset all-too-common among certain so-called liberals who claim to support racial diversity and inclusion but viscerally reject any effort to actually achieve it. And a favorite tactic is to whip out a parade of horribles - i.e., the worst case scenario that could result if GOD FORBID race is taken into account in the effort to ensure diversity in the selection process.

Suggesting that race be a considered as a factor is a far cry from making race the ONLY factor - unless you are incapable of understanding this issue in anything beyond a narrow-minded, kneejerk "let's all be color-blind as long as it means keeping the white entitlement status quo" approach so many here seem to be limited to.

[RichGirl]

74. What color are you thinking?

[ProudDad]

76. I hear Michel Steele is out of work...

:shrug:

But I definitely understand and agree with your point...

Why NOT a Black or Latino or Muslim Arab Progressive

[Supersedeas]

81. Why not bring Allison Stewart back...why discount the fact that she has already done the job

Or ignore the fact that MSNBC has already put her in the position prior to this little discussion.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

77. EXACTLY!!! Well done!! K&R!!!!! n/t

[jillan]

84. Melissa Harris-Perry - I love her. She is brilliant and a little bit feisty. She'd be good.

[annabanana]

116. +1 . . . .n/t

[jonnyblitz]

87. how does "the Alan Keyes Show" sound to you?

:D

[Fuddnik]

97. With Special Correspondents Michael Steele and Kenneth Blackwell.

MSNBC, Comcast, and NBC can all go to hell, for all I care.

I'm setting up parental controls, so that I can't even accidentally watch one of them.

[slackmaster]

106. Too bad Wesley Snipes is in the joint

:hide:

[Empowerer]

109. Yes, because what would a discussion about black people be w/o a reference to a black criminal?

Thank you for your input.

[zulchzulu]

114. What about a bald transexual?

They are people too.

[Empowerer]

118. Idiotic comments like this are typical responses to serious discussions about racial diversity

from people who think diversity is important only when it comes to having different kinds of white people in the mix - but sneer at every attempt to break an all-white logjam, believing that attempting to include racial minorities is either a joke or a blow against white people.

[zulchzulu]

119. Why is skin color such an obsession? There are black right-wing commentators on Fox News

Is that how you view the World? Through skin color?

MSNBC has people of color on various shows. Some are great and others are just like anyone else that isn't great.

I'm all for racial diversity, but thinking that a show would be better because someone's melanin levels or skin tone pigmentation is darker is nonsense. I thought we were over that shit.

[Empowerer]

120. That's another common response whenever someone points out the need to integrate

an all-white venue. The people creating, perpetuating and defending the pure white arena get a free pass while those of us who try to even the playing field are accused of "obsessing" over race.

Whenever someone tries to change a status quo, they are the ones who seem to be obsessing, since they're the ones who have to raise the issue, press it, press it some more. The people benefitting from the status quo, on the other hand, have to do nothing to maintain the existing system, so THEY seem to be calm and rational. In reality, they are just as obsessed as the folks on the other end - they can just exercise their obsession in subtle ways because everything is already in place for them to do so.

I'll bet you if the shoe were on the other foot and the cable networks had NO whites and only black and brown people hosting their shows, a whole lot of people would be "obsessing" over how out-of-kilter that scenario was - of course, the argument would be that MSNBC had lowered its standards.

And I never said the shows would be better because of the amount of melanin in the hosts' skin. By the same token, I DO think we all benefit by having diversity - whether it's political, gender or racial or otherwise.

It's easy, when you're in the majority, to pretend that a lack of racial diversity is no big deal. But if that lack of diversity meant that no one who looked like you was ever included in the mix, you'd probably have an entirely different perspective.

[zulchzulu]

123. Should MSNBC have a blinking "super" saying "black person" with bells when one is on?

Maybe that would make you happy. They do have people of color (i.e. more melanin in their skin pigmentation) on from time to time. granted, if they didn't agree wih you, you'd call them an "Uncle Tom".

Jus' sayin'.

[Empowerer]

124. Excuse me?

Are you actually paying attention to what you're saying?

I hope not since it would be a shame if such an ignorant, patronizing comment was the the intentional result of your thought process.

[annabanana]

115. HEY MR SCORPIO!! I gots a job for you!

Giggle.. wouldn't that be something?

[Number23]

122. Cenk works my last nerve, but I would have to agree that he would qualify as a

person of color. Is he a journalist? No. Is he interesting to listen to or more informed on the issues than a moderately bright 14 year old? No. But I do think that he qualifies as a person of color.

This thread is a ridiculous mess. Your point that the same folks who have made nary a peep about the astounding lack of racial diversity in the highest echelons of network/cable news have suddenly become race and diversity experts now that someone had the unmitigated nerve to point out the lack of diversity is spot on. It would be hilarious if not so predictable and simultaneously pitiful.

Personally, I would like to see Rick Sanchez get another job in the media. The fact that he was fired for his idiotic statements about a comedian while Lou Dobbs made idiotic statements about entire communities and kept his job has never sat well with me.

[AsahinaKimi]

126. Now that Comcast has taken over MSNBC

I have a feeling that any progressive or liberal view points might disappear, no matter who says them.

[Skip Intro]

128. Why not replace him with the best qualified, regardless of race? nt

[Empowerer]

129. That would be great

But since that's obviously never been a criteria up until now - only white people have been given shows and I find it hard to believe that ONLY white people have been the "best qualified" up until now - I don't know why we now need so suddenly to apply a different standard.

Besides, what actually constitutes "the best qualified" for a cable talk show hosting gig? Is there a set of objective criteria that has been and should continue to be applied? Or is it pretty subjective. taking into account all manner of attributes? What is it that makes Ed Schultz and Dylan Ratigan "the best qualified" people to host shows in their time slots? Are Joe Scarborough, Eliot Spitzer and Willie Geist "the best qualified to host their shows?" Or were they picked for reasons other than purely objective ones? ANd if it's the latter, why apply a different standard to the hiring of minorities than we do for the hiring of white folks?

In my experience, the decisions about whom to hire for most jobs - whether working in a store or practicing law or hosting a talk show - are rarely based solely on purely objective criteria, but are instead based on a number of criteria, some of which are very subjective. Often this subjectivity results in people hiring those who look like them since they offer a sense of familiarity and comfort. People seem to accept this with no problem or objection, even when this results in less than diverse workforces. Yet when an attempt is made to level the playing field and make the venue more diverse, we are subjected to the kind of vociferous objections we've seen in these threads - combinations of outright hostility, snark, sarcasm and just general unpleasantness. We are accused of racism and discrimination against white people - even though white folks control the process and the lion's share of the positions, in excess of their proportion of the population, the hiring pool or the workforce. We are treated to the inevitable parade of horribles - unqualified or undesirable black people who - God forbid - could end up being hired if we engage in the outrageous act of considering race in order to integrate the airwaves. And, as soon as night follows day, we get demands that we should just hire "the best qualified, regardless of race" - a standard that doesn't seem to be demanded by many of these people when it comes to the hiring practices that resulted in the original racial exclusions we are struggling to overcome.

I agree that it would be great if we hired the best qualified, regardless of race. And if we applied that standard consistently, that would be so much easier to do. But when that standard is insisted upon ONLY when it comes to trying to ensure that minorities get a fair shot, but is thrown out of the window the rest of the time, we will continue to have inequity and exclusion.

[HipChick]

130. they fired Carlos Watson..black host...another MSNBC body count...

[Empowerer]

131. AFTER never promoting his show

They didn't even mention him or include his photo among the other daytime hosts (all of them white) in their promotions. They literally skipped right over him: "Watch Morning Joe at 6, followed by Dylan Ratigan at 9, followed by Dr. Nancy Snyderman at noon." - with no mention of Carlos Watson's noon show.

Then they pulled him after a month or so, claiming his ratings were too low. And he hasn't been seen since. This, despite the fact that he was outstanding.

Here's the actual ad on MSNBC's website from the summer of 2009. Where's Carlos?