"And this July, we will begin to bring our troops home."

[UrbScotty]

[TomClash]

1. We'll see nt

[tabatha]

4. That is what people said about Iraq.

The troops came home from Iraq.

[TomClash]

5. Many went straight to Afghanistan

And many are still there.

[tabatha]

8. Yes, but many still came home.

You look at the negative; I look at the positive.

[TomClash]

14. My cousin did a year at Balad

And is now on the NW frontier.

My nephew is on his fourth tour in Iraq.

Not so positive.

[tabatha]

22. Not good.

I was lucky - my son could have been sent, but was not.

[TomClash]

24. Thank God for that! nt

[tekisui]

9. Nearly 50,000 troops are still in Iraq.

And, he has made no promise on end date in Afghanistan.

[vaberella]

15. And it was already announced that those 50,000 troops come out this summer.

And the draw down of Afghan troops begins this summer. Both of which were announced on Rachel Maddow's show.

[tekisui]

18. A begin of a drawdown with no end date is meaningless.

No mention on numbers or rate or end date.

We'll see on Iraq.

[dflprincess]

10. One of the Minnesota National Guard units is preparing for another year in Iraq

they leave in a few months. For some of the members in the unit, it will be their third deployment to that farce.

[tabatha]

12. How many in the unit?

We still have troops going to other countries for over 50 years. Are these troops in that context? or for combat?

[dflprincess]

17. According to the local news 2700

they're going to provide "security" (wink, wink, nudge, nudge).

I can't say I recall National Guard units being sent to Germany or Japan over the last 50 years. Damn few National Guard ever went to Viet Nam (that's why there were waiting lists for the Guard then).

It's only since we've been wasting lives, time and money on these wars of choice that the Gurard units seem to be called up so often.

[tabatha]

21. Yep, the National Guard deployment sucks.

[vaberella]

13. Did you forget last August?! It was a massive troops haul...or are you ignoring that?

Last August, they also clearly stated that the final amount of troops in Iraq are coming out and they will be starting to take out troops from Afghanistan.

But I'm sure when that happens---5 months later you'll claim it never happened.

[TomClash]

20. Yes I remember

Finally some have come home. About 50,000 are still there. That's two large divisions and roughly the size of the German Afrika Corps in WW II.

[ProudDad]

31. And at least the equal in "contractors"...

"Change" you can bereave about...

[TomClash]

45. Good point!

The private army . . .

[Cant trust em]

2. Expect a lot of disappointment when they don't come home in large enough numbers. nt

[Ken Burch]

3. You say that as if such disappointment is inherently bogus.

Clearly, we've achieved nothing in Afghanistan and there's no real difference between the side we're fighting for and the other side.
A warlord is a warlord is a warlord, and pretty much ALL Afghan men agree with the Taliban's view of women, sickeningly.

[Cant trust em]

11. I think that the extrication from the war is going to be more difficult than we'd like to recognize.

There is likely a large gap between what is militarily and politically prudent.

[ClassWarrior]

23. I don't trust people who are quick to point out the "difficulties" of ending war. We all know...

...it will be exceedingly tough when it happens. So what agenda does it serve to keep pounding that point home? Huh?

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

25. Because some people actually talk like its easy.

But you can continue to distrust me. Your trust isn't something I value.

[ClassWarrior]

27. Where?

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

28. Are you kidding?

Have you never seen a post calling for bringing the troops home tomorrow?

I find that hard to believe.

[ClassWarrior]

29. No I haven't. Show me.

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

32. OK. I'll play your little game.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4659168

See posts 2, 4 and 9.

[ClassWarrior]

34. If it's so hard to find that you have to reschedule your evening, is it really that significant?

:shrug:

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

35. I still have to do readings for tonight. I've already spent too much time on this site as it is.

But I edited the post. It actually didn't take too much time.

[Cant trust em]

36. I started this poll a few minutes ago.

Check it out.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x275398

[ClassWarrior]

37. Not one said we should "leave tomorrow."

All three said we should BEGIN to leave tomorrow. We should BEGIN THE PROCESS to leave tomorrow.

Of course you know that. You're the one who's "playing little semantics games."

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

38. OK. If this is about semantics, then let's do some quoting.

You're right, in my earlier post I said leave tomorrow. I admit that that was paraphrasing a general sentiment that I picked up on.

Yet the posts that I found stuck pretty close to that intent. That being the case, let's take it to the actual quotes.

Post 2 says "The Sooner The Better...." Presumably this person would be pretty happy with tomorrow as a timetable.
Post 4 says "Heck, it could begin now. nt" Hell, this person doesn't even want it to wait until tomorrow. At 5:21 in the afternoon on 12/10/2010 they could have started the draw down.
Post 9 says "Shit, let's call a win right now and get the fuck out." Again, the sentiment is right now. Not wait another day.

That's why I think it's important to talk about how we're going to get out of this and not talk about it like it's going to be a simple solution that we can end in a moment's notice.

[ClassWarrior]

39. I think you know fully well that those words are expressions of urgency, and that we all...

...completely understand it will be a long, grueling and complex challenge to bring our troops home safely.

And that's all the more reason to begin all the sooner.

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

40. I'm honestly not sure that we do fully understand.

We're going to have to have a disagreement on this one. I've just seen far too many posts talking about bringing our troops home tomorrow in a very haphazard kind of manner to think otherwise. Honestly, I hope you're totally right. If all of these people are thinking this through in the way that you say they are, then I will happily eat my words on the subject.

But since we're on the same page on how challenging it will be, why are you distrustful of people who want to talk about it? I don't want it ever taken for granted how difficult of a process it is going to be. As a result I don't want people talking in even a joking manner about how easy a transition its going to be. To be distrustful of people who want to talk about all of the pros and cons of something strikes me as strange. I don't know why this is something that we would want to silence.

[ClassWarrior]

41. Because it always seems to be used around here to smack down DUers who convey a sense of urgency...

...about the dire consequences of our military actions. We are engaged in multiple occupations, societies are destabilized and people are dying on a daily basis. This ain't farm subsidies.

That's why I distrust the "it's going to be too hard to leave" meme.

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

42. Then I guess here's where we differ.

I don't engage in needing to trust or whatever. I'm just trying to make sense out of this world and take in as many viewpoints as possible while I make up my mind. I don't want to write anyone off just because they've used some code words.

Anyway...what does the NGU stand for?

[ClassWarrior]

43. Then your handle is rather ironic.

NGU = Never Give Up, my personal motto around here.

NGU.

[Cant trust em]

44. The "em" in question was mostly directed at Bush and Cheney.

It's a bit outdated now, but I can't change it.

But it's not that I trust everyone. I just don't need to trust anyone. I don't have categories of the good guys and the bad guys. I listen to what folks have to say, if it resonates, then it's something I consider. If it doesn't resonate, then I discard it.


Anyway, that's my outlook.

Take it easy.

[ClassWarrior]

33. dupe... delete...

[MichiganVote]

6. What a fucking croc that is.

[vaberella]

16. How so? Did you forget the draw down in Iraq already?

The final 50,000 are due out this summer. As for Afghanistan that's already been in the works since last year. He announced that. But then again...many of his critics said the same about DADT ending during the lame duck. So I'll put in a we shall see.

[dflprincess]

19. If the final 50,000 are due out this summer why are Guard units shipping out this spring

and being told they will be there for a year?

As for Afghanistan, we need to get out yesterday. We've ruined enough lives over there and God knows we can't afford to stay there.

[vaberella]

26. I have no clue. Maybe to help with the final drawdown.

They shipped in more troops to Iraq when they were removing a lot of troops last summer as well if I remember. Many people assumed when people were being deployed to Iraq that the initial draw down was a rumor and when it came out it was to help the other troops---silence.

Afghanistan is a mess---it was a mess from the moment we went in. In my opinion we get out, within 2 years if not less we'll be right back in it because of the amount of blow back. And leaving them in a disarray on top of it means our nation is going to end up like Russia with regular bombings be them suicide or whatever. Leave now or later---in the end it doesn't matter from what I can tell. By going into Afghanistan and Iraq in the first place we sealed our fate and that nation will be a revolving door of war for us for decades to come. I notice this is ignored by many on the site but inevitable from the way I see it.

[sailor65]

7. "Combat patrols have ended in Iraq...."

funny, my friends must not have gotten the memo while they were gearing up for their most recent......

[ProudDad]

30. And I've got a bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to talk to ya' about...

I'll give ya' a hell of a price...

-------------------------

Go Figure - What Would It Cost to Save the World?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9po4ggUl-Ew&feature=player_embedded

Fucking Permanent War Economy goes on and on and on...

[jonnyblitz]

46. "mission accomplished!111"

just like they "came home" from Iraq. :eyes: