Tom Harkin Peddling Crap To Maddow

[jberryhill]

First, he goes through this jazz about "building a foundation" and adding to it later.

Then he does a 180 and and talks about how hard it is to break reform into compnents and pass them incrementally.

I hope someone catches a link to the video. He was pathetic.

[Dinger]

1. K & R. You Beat Me To It

My sentiments exactly.

[polichick]

2. It sure was hard to watch. "This is a progressive bill," he said. nt

[saltpoint]

3. I like Tom Harkin.

Always have.

Likely always will.

[jberryhill]

11. I like him too.... Catch the video.... It's just sad

I like Tom Harkin a lot, but he is trying to paint a smiley face on a non-smiley situation.

[saltpoint]

19. I'm bone-deep resolved on the side of Harkin. And disinclined to

let one brief interview eclipse a career's dedication to good things.

[jberryhill]

26. You are not understanding me

I will continue to like him too. That doesn't mean his shit doesn't stink.

It's sad that he has lost and tries to make the best of it.

Watch it when it's available. I did not say it eclipsed his career or the other words you are dishonestly putting in my mouth.

[saltpoint]

28. Your subject line didn't sit right with me.

At all.

[jberryhill]

35. When you see the interview, I believe the subject line will make sense

It's something of a WTF moment in an admirable career.

[saltpoint]

38. Were it never shown my opinion of Harkin as a genuine public

servant would be as unchanged as if I watched in within the next half-hour.

The larger point is he's a good man.

Which I'm sure you will agree was not entirely evident from your subject line.

[jberryhill]

39. I agree

And urge you to watch the interview.

I've seen plenty of guys at poker tables and racetracks do the same thing.

[Nite Owl]

4. I heard

they are spinning so hard on this that they are dizzy from it all. What crap---and there are those who still believe it!

[still_one]

8. You can only fool people so many times /nt

[still_one]

5. The true colors were demonstrated by the Democrats involvment in the loss of the drug importation

bill that went down to defeat

[IndianaGreen]

7. that is an excellent point

[IndianaGreen]

6. It was painful to watch him. Harkin doesn't lie very well.

Horrible that Harry Reid is sending Harkin and Brown to the media to sell this piece of shit.

[Armstead]

15. I admire them both but itn is sad to see them suffering Stockholm Syndrome

I think they've both been beaten down so much that their willpower has collapsed. They'll do anything just to stop the abuse

[bigwillq]

9. Was he the one that said

there would be a public option in the final bill? Waiting. Still have time. Let's GO!

[Justitia]

10. and he sure doesn't sound like he even believes himself. Be honest Tom - it sucks!

Just change the MFing thing to be a health insurance reform bill - no fucking mandates, no fucking billions and billions to insurance companies.

THEN it would be worth something without fucking the rest of us over.

[jberryhill]

14. He doesn't, and it shows

He's not going to say we're screwed, so he did this interview instead.

[Learning Nomad]

12. He 's copying the "wedge" strategy of the creationists.

That's the same idea set forth by the Discovery Institute to get creationism taught in the schools. Get a little point in and then run from there once you're in.

[jefferson_dem]

13. So now Dean is a God and Harkin is a Tool.

You guys are a hoot.

Both have credibility on this issue (though I would argue that Harkin has more of an established record). The key difference is that Harkin is in a position of responsibility, and his position actually has practical effects. Dean is like an angry fan sitting in the bleachers screaming at the team when he thinks they are not playing well.

[Blue-Jay]

16. +1

[jberryhill]

17. No... First off I am not "guys", and I like Tom Harkin

Please watch his interview with Maddow when it is available.

And do not put words in my mouth. Harkin us not a "tool" and your characterization of my comment is dishonest.

Harkin is a good guy, and it is pathetic to see him have to paint a smiley on this POS.

[jefferson_dem]

24. Try to sugar coat all you want but the implication is clear.

Why not acknowledge that Senator Harkin is disappointed (who isn't) but realizes that we have to seize this opportunity to get what we can?

If the bill is truly so bad, and you respect Harkin as much as you say you do...he would not be supporting it. Period. No matter what. Unless...you think he's being dishonest.

[jberryhill]

32. The thing is...

No office holder is going to say "we lost".

It's just a sad interview to watch as he grasps for something good to say and fails (by pretending this bill is SCHIP among other things).

It was this interview with Harkin which convinced how far off track this thing has gone.

He's not "dishonest" in it. He IS a politician in it, and holding back what he might otherwise say about this "whoopee we spent a year on Better Than Nothing" bill.

But he does contradict himself on the "we can make it better" and "we don't have time to do it anytime soon" part.

[Feron]

36. That's what I got out of the interview.

I didn't think that he was pathetic at all.

A good point he made was that if nothing is done, then the issue isn't likely to be revisited anytime soon. And history certainly bears that one out.

There are shitty things in the bill, but there are also good things. Plus this certainly isn't the final bill.

[appal_jack]

41. sorry, bad point

A good point he made was that if nothing is done, then the issue isn't likely to be revisited anytime soon. And history certainly bears that one out.

Funny how when Republicans want to privatize Social Security, they bring it up under Reagan, Bush 41, Clinton (had a 'study panel' that parotted RW bullshit), Bush 43, and now Obama (there have been threads recently here at DU about some (Dem!) Senators again saying that reform has to happen or it will all cost too much, with "too much" being equal to about 1/10 of the recent Wall St. / Bank bailout).

But somehow, when timid Democrats pre-compromise their way toward a shitty health reform proposal in 1993, we all magically HAVE to wait sixteen years until an even more lame extra-pre-compromised update is even brought to the floor. Now we are told we MUST swallow this corporate-give-away shit-sandwich, or the magical 16-year clock will have to be re-set again, and we will all have to wait, timid as church mice.

Sorry, but if we had REAL leaders who were pursuing REAL progressive solutions, then Democrats would have proposed single-payer reforms during EVERY session of Congress between 1993 and now. Such REAL leaders would have used every microphone they could get near in the intervening 16 years to state that the US' lack of a national health plan impedes US job growth, contributes to a huge percentage of personal bankruptcies, and DOES NOT MAKE SENSE in light of the fact that every other industrialized nation delivers better health care to more of its citizens at a lower cost than what we already pay here in the US.

Sixteen years of pushing this meme in every venue possible would have primed the populace for real reform. Then if Obama REALLY wanted reform, he would have acted as a leader and used the bully pulpit EVERY WEEK between his inauguration and now to push for SPECIFIC PUBLIC reforms to our health care system.

-app

[jberryhill]

44. Bingo

It's like democrats are a species of cicada that only appear every 17 years.

[jberryhill]

43. "the issue isn't likely to be revisited soon"

Oh, so you disagreed with him when he said we could pass it now and fix it soon.

Which Harkin did you agree with?

[Justitia]

18. Uh, who has actually got REAL healthcare provided to his constituents? Hint: not Harkin.

If you are looking for "established records" you need to be looking in Vermont, not Iowa.

But go ahead and bash Howard Dean because he is telling you the truth about something you don't want to hear.

[Mass]

25. Hint. Harkin was never governor, so it would have been a little hard for him.

And Harkin is a good guy that I trust any day on these issues.

[Justitia]

29. I like Harkin, this is not Harkin vs. Dean. I just couldn't let the "established record" bs slide.

I know Tom is trying to put a good face on it, but I would appreciate his honesty more.

[jefferson_dem]

33. Sensitive, aren't we?

Dr. Dean is cool. And generally governors do govern.

My point was in terms of length, not necessarily quality, of service. Harkin has built a 30-year record as a figher for progressive issues and values and distinguished himself on health care especially. You do know that he now sits in Teddy's seat as chair of the Senate's Health, Education, Labor and Pensions Committee, right.

[Davis_X_Machina]

20. Hey, this is DU. There are only two *real* Democratic Senators....

Dennis Kucinich, who isn't a senator, and Bernie Sanders, who isn't a Democrat.

[saltpoint]

21. : )

:thumbsup:

[provis99]

22. well, Feingold is a Democratic senator. The only one, apparently

Though I still have hopes for Sherrod Brown, if he stops being so gutless.

[Enrique]

23. you forgot Zombie Paul Wellstone n/t

[Dinger]

27. Dang, You Mailed It!

Good call.:thumbsup:

[Feron]

31. I respectfully disagree..

One wrong move and they'll be banished as well.

[jefferson_dem]

34. +1.

n/t

[O is 44]

30. Could not agree more....

"Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good" I remember candidate Obama saying that quite often. I agree with Harkin that we can build on this bill.

However, I do think the Dems need to do a better job in explaining how this current bill is going to control cost.

[rwheeler31]

37. I thought he explained it well.

[BlueIdaho]

40. Every Congressional Democrat is working the spin mchine 24/7

To rationalize their colossal failure and the failure of this administration to reform health care. Now its not even health insurance reform that will deliver insurance to the people. It has boiled down to a scheme that delivers 30 million more Americans to the heavily profit driven health care industry.

Lambs to the slaughter that's all we are.

[budkin]

42. I just saw it on the replay... the guy looks like a beaten dog.

[IndianaGreen]

45. as did Sherrod Brown on another show

they are clearly under orders to publicly support the Lieberman/Obama bill.

I wonder how long before they crack.

[neverforget]

46. "Keep fighting the good fight" but cave to 1 man. Excuse me while I

throw up. :puke: Sen Harkin, I really like you, but WTF? Isn't this worth fighting for? If this isn't, then what is?