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Honeycombe8 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:10 AM
Original message
No Way, No How, No Bill!
Do I look stupid to you? OK, I know you can't see me. But trust me. I'm not stupid. So when you say to me that the new HCR is progressive, historical, reforming in nature, true progress, etc.....don't think for a minute that I'm swallowing that bull.

When it became clear, at the beginning, that single payer was out...okay. I went along with that. Logical. Obama had never backed that (none of the candidates who got significant votes had backed that). I'm a reasonable person. Why insist on having something that we all knew wasn't ever going to exist? So a robust public option it was.

Then when it became clear that a robust public option was out, and a weak one, barely passible as a public option, was possibly in, I said, well, that is something we can work with. Get it up and running, and amend it later. Okay, I'm with you on that.

Then when it became clear that a weak public option was out, but an opening up of Medicare to the 55 - 65 age group was in...I said, well that's not good. But okay, I can see that in some ways that might be even better. It opens the door to Medicare. It might actually help Medicare become solvent, because there would be new payees who aren't as sickly as the older folks. And the 55-65 age group is one that suffers more than some others in recessions. Okay...well...this Medicare thing might actually be a good thing. (Blowing the dust off my voter's registration card, as I get things in order to vote next year...for Democrats.)

But now it has become clear that the Republicans and the insurance companies have won. The ins. cos. get the windfall of a captive market that is required to pay them money. No public option, even a weak one. No opening up of Medicare.

I don't want a politician explaining to me how this bill will help 300,000 people. All bills help some people in some ways. Or they wouldn't have been passed.

Harry Reid really told the tale when he said recently that they are close to doing what they had planned, to reach their GOAL of 60 votes on a HCR bill. No, Harry. That was not the GOAL. The GOAL was a health care REFORM bill that contained costs and reformed the health care industry. It was your JOB to see to it that you found a way to get that done. You failed in the real GOAL. Just because you get SOMETHING passed does NOT mean you succeeded at anything. Don't try to put lipstick on that pig NOW. It's too late.

And it's clear that Obama will sign any HCR bill that hits his desk. He just wants a bill. Any bill. I love Obama, but that's the truth of it.

The name of the game for the Democrats: Get any HCR bill passed, and sell it as helping people and being real reform, so they can campaign on that next year. They bought into the Clinton advice: Pass a bill, and people will learn to like it.

I'm not stupid. Even with lipstick on this pig, I can still see that it's a pig.
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lob1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. And it's not lipstick, it's blood.
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
2. K&R to your most excellent post
Kill the bill
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. All opinon, and not all accurate. It doesn't take genius
to realize that several more months of a new health care debate is not politically feasible. The assholes will still be assholes. The reality is that if the bill is killed, health care will be swept under the rug for a long time.

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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Only until people are ready to force a change
Whereas if a bill passes, health care will be swept under the rug for a long time.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. "Whereas if a bill passes, health care will be swept under the rug for a long time." Impossible.
You have that completely backward. It has been more than 16 years since the U.S. attempted health reform.

Every state that has enacted some type of reform is having to deal with the issue daily.

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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Not impossible
The focus will move from needing reform to the disenchantment of people who do not like the reform passed.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. "The focus will move from needing reform to the disenchantment of people" Yeah,
Edited on Wed Dec-16-09 01:01 AM by ProSense
just like it did for Medicare, Social Security, the Mass and Vermont health plans and all the other bills that have been improved with time.
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:08 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Different time, different sentate.
The pubs are still agitating to privatize social security, have managed to spend a significant portion of its stored funds on their wars, and convince a lot of younger people that its not going to be there when we get to that point in life

They managed to slip medicare advantage in, and will happily do anything else they can to destroy or further privatize that program as well.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:10 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. What? I'm talking about the original bills. n/t
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quakerboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Were any of those bills passed
recently?
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LooseWilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:57 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. If the situation is as bad as it's made out to be... then it will have to be re-addressed
if it's killed now. Why settle for a steaming pile of shit, when the pressures are such that even more pressure for something reasonable later will be present if we don't settle for this fucked up mess now?

Or, are you really just a big fan of making the underemployed and under-benefitted workers legally forced to subsidize a fucked up system in order to prop it up for a little while longer before it is really fixed?

Get rid of the mandates, and let's see if Lieberman will support "reform" that isn't a handout of monies from under-benefitted workers unto the health insurance industry...
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #3
17. If it passes, health care reform is well and truly fucked
This bill will take the Dems and Obama straight down.
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Fridays Child Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm with Dr. Dean: kill the bill.
k/r
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LiberalLoner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:01 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Me too. Kill the bill.
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BP2 Donating Member (406 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
15. I would rather canx it and

say the bill got too complex and start over again
than take it like it is now without a Public Option.
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HowHasItComeToThis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 12:46 AM
Response to Original message
6. YOU ARE SO RIGHT
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salguine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 02:28 AM
Response to Original message
16. I would like to see someone test the feasibility of a
class-action lawsuit to scuttle the mandate, on the grounds that you can't force someone to buy a defective product. Any lawyers out there? Thoughts?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 03:46 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm looking into a civil rights lawsuit on age discrimination n/t
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-16-09 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
19. opening up of Medicare to the 55 - 65 - you people make it sound like it's a freebie... NOT!
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