How nasty will the 2012 election be?

[onehandle]

[Buzz Clik]

1. Here at DU, it will be "Obama Sucks!" 24/7. Just like 2011 and 2010.

[Avant Guardian]

5. Only if Obama keeps giving tax cuts to the rich

...and filling other GOP priorities....then yes, it will be as you say.

[Buzz Clik]

10. Yeah, I see what you mean. His health care bill: GOP wet dream.

Ending Don't Ask Don't Tell: Just what the conservatives wanted
Refusing to defend Defense of Marriage Act: Republican campaign plank #1.

You make excellent points.

[Avant Guardian]

14. Corporate healthcare?

GOP policies are things like corporatism, war, torture, tax cuts for the rich, etc.

[Buzz Clik]

17. See what I mean? You epitomize my points without even trying.

[polichick]

21. You're ignoring the point. We could have had a public option...

...if the prez hadn't traded it away in secret early in the process - thus protecting and even mandating corporate health insurance.

[Buzz Clik]

23. I'm guessing you were on a long ocean cruise with no communications during the health care debate.

Is it your opinion that Obama proposed the piece of shit health care bill we have today?

Did the majority Democratic Congress play any role at all in turning the bill into a prop for the health insurance industry?

Last question: would you rather Obama had vetoed the bill (which gave the opportunity for health insurance for those who don't have it) or accepted this as the first step?

It's pretty easy to continue throwing stones at the White House despite the undeniable fact that the blame does not lie there.

[polichick]

24. Lots of words I see, but no excuse for trading away the public option...

...behind the backs of Dems - even Dems working on the deal.

WHY did he do that, if not to protect the corporate status quo?

[Buzz Clik]

25. Pure distortion. Sorry, but I don't have prolonged discussions with dishonest people.

Have a good one.

[polichick]

26. Do your homework - you're being dishonest with yourself. nt

[BzaDem]

45. "Do your homework"

Really? Here you are, claiming that Obama somehow could have had a public option passed, and then you are telling OTHERS to do THEIR homework?

:rofl:

[dionysus]

38. there were 6-8 blue dogs plus lieberman who would have filluibustered the PO. i'm sure you haven't

forgotten.

[Pirate Smile]

56. There were never the votes to get a PO. We never had even close to 60 for it.

Some people would have preferred for him to go for a symbolic fight which we would have lost and got nothing but instead he got as much as he could get passed in the US Senate.

Bill Maher pushed this crap on his show on Friday. Ezra Klein was luckily there to respond that if President Obama said Public Option or veto, around 8 conservative Dems would have balked and walked away.

He got what he could so that 30 million more people would be covered by insurance in 2014 and the insurance reforms re preexisting conditions, life time/yearly limits outlawed, etc could be enacted.

He got what he could but some wish he would have just made a symbolic fight out of it instead. Symbolic fights are always so helpful to the uninsured.

[polichick]

6. Not if he suddenly remembers what the Democratic Party is all about. nt

[superduperfarleft]

27. How did I guess that the first post in this thread would be whining about how much DU sucks.

:rofl:

[SteveG]

39. Obama will still win.

But I am getting my passport just in case.

[grahamhgreen]

43. He can not win with his present policy positions.

[VoteProgressive]

54. Are there any things that are ok to complain about?

[xchrom]

2. Other: don't care. Nt

[demwing]

3. The 2012 election will be a happy place

We'll have flowery meadows and rainbow skies, and rivers made of chocolate where the children will dance, and laugh and play with gumdrop smiles!

[rpannier]

60. It will happen

Especially if the rapture comes and drags the tea baggers and fundies to Hell.

[Avant Guardian]

4. A picture tells a thousand words

[namahage]

57. Random white people?

Still 997 short, can you fill me in?

[polichick]

7. It will be interesting, for sure. I'm wondering if the messages will be...

...very different or if both sides will be sucking up to all that big money.

[Avant Guardian]

8. Im curious if Obama will try to use the 'Hope' and 'Change' memes again

I suspect he has blown that one.

[polichick]

9. Yes, he's moved on to something more specific - like "Win the future."

[Buzz Clik]

11. Maybe he could try, "Empowering the Extreme Left". Ya think that would get him elected?

[polichick]

12. This is the one that would WIN BIG: "Gov't of, by and for THE PEOPLE...

NOT Gov't of, by and for corporations."

[Buzz Clik]

20. I'll bet you'd be out campaigning every day if that was his theme, and you wouldn't ridicule it.

Yeah, right.

Does a candidate on the national scene today fit your standards? Can you give us a name of your dream president?

[polichick]

22. I'd love it if Obama took that theme and backed it up with action...

Sadly for the country, he's letting another great opportunity slip by.

The question is WHY?

[Butch350]

52. Wrap your mind around this...

Your gonna get scre*** no matter who ends up in the WH.
(save this for future reference)

[nxylas]

33. You unAmerican radical, you

Don't you know that expressing such sentiments makes you a member of the extreme left? You'll be telling me next that people shouldn't be bankrupted because they get sick, or that Wall Street and the Pentagon should have to make financial sacrifices along with teachers and firefighters.

[Drunken Irishman]

16. Yes. Obama should run on change...

That's ridiculous. Of course he's going to run on something different than change. An incumbent who runs on change looks foolish and desperate - like when Hillary Clinton and John McCain tried to do it back in 2008.

You can't run on change and expect people to keep you in office. C'mon now. Use your head. I mean, I get what you're doing here - trying to take Pres. Obama down a peg with a snide and unremarkable statement, but even you realize he can't run on change.

This election will be about Pres. Obama showing the American people he has a steady hand and is guiding the country in the right direction.

Now the tea-baggers? My bet is they run on the change mantra.

Of course, no one likes their change.

[Ozymanithrax]

13. How can it possibly be nasty with upstanding family values Republicans running...

24/7 against the Kenyan/Muslim/Anti-American/Gay loving/Selling American to Fundamentalist Muslim Socialist President Obama Bin Laden?

:sarcasm:

[BlueIris]

15. Dirtiest yet. My prediction: Dem candidate spends 500-700 mil again.

S/he will make the usual pile of excuses, engage in the worst kind of hostage tactics, pander to every special interest group imaginable, (including those on the right) and basically attempt to slap a nice coat of paint on the piece of crap that is the DNC's recent track record of "accomplishments" these last few years. We will be expected to capitulate.

As for the Republicans, the neo-cons will hijack the process early on, (again) nominate two solid foreign policy hawks, and scream about terrorism/the bad economy for six to nine months. I expect another terrorist attack sometime before the election or if the Democrats pull this thing out, immediately after. Come January 2013, the president, Democrat or Republican, will be under enormous pressure to invade yet another country, or continue a new invasion already taking place at that time.

I'm not looking forward to this.

[vicarofrevelwood]

18. the Empire needs to be dismantled.

the Empire needs to be dismantled.

[polichick]

28. The empire might have to crash and burn in order for people to wake up...

America is like Charlie Sheen - we're WINNING!

[vicarofrevelwood]

49. Why is it so hot,

and what am I doing in this hand basket?

[craigmatic]

19. It'll be very nasty because they don't think they can win so they'll just lash out.

They know for a fact that they can't beat Obama. Their candidates are a joke and whoever they nominate will be so right wing they'll just recycle birther, oath keeper, and other loony talking points. Their poll numbers will sink and they'll only get nastier as a result.

[emulatorloo]

29. Huckabee's book tour outta give DU a clue. He's said everything about Obama except the N-word

Eom

[onehandle]

30. They use the word 'urban' as a code for the N-word.

They have used it to describe our President.

[vicarofrevelwood]

50. A hell of a lot of Other folks still live in the cities.

Me thinks they have forgotten.

[treestar]

37. Exactly, and they will be hysterical to "prove"

that a black man can't win two terms and from that to draw the conclusion blacks aren't up to the job.

We don't want the racists to be able to say, "we were right, a black man cannot be president" (though they won't say it, they will think it and imply and dog whistle it).

[mzteris]

31. what scares me are all the "democratic obama haters"

THEY will be the ones responsible if he should conceivably lose the 2012 election.

yeah yeah yeah, i know your feelings - "it's his fault for not being liberal enough" .... so no need to try and sell me on WHY you feel that way. I know "why" - I just completely and totally disagree with your solution - which is NOT VOTING FOR THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE!

See how well the "let's send a message and not vote" thing worked out in WISCONSIN????????? We have a ignorant arrogant paranoid sociopath for governor. And a puddle of slack-jawed drool as a replacement for Senator Feingold.

Obama doesn't do everything right - he's not f'ing superman! He gets plenty wrong. But he gets a whole damn sight more RIGHT than any gd Republican or teabagger candidate every will. When your house is burning down, you pick up an armload at a time - you can't pick up EVERYTHING AT ONCE.

Can you IMAGINE what a "walker type" would do to our country if they were President? Can you imagine a Palin or Gingrich or Huckabee or Bachmann or any or those @(*#&$(#*& types as President???

[FrenchieCat]

32. The folks who swear they won't work or donate to Obama 2012 campaign

but will vote for him are the most frightening....
because if everyone thought like them, Republicans will win....
and if no one knows what that means for our future, then they
will soon enough. It's like some put it.....they seriously believe
that America has to fall apart before it can be put back together...
in otherwords, they do believe that re-electing Pres. Obama will only
delay the inevitable revolution they so much yearn for. What they do
not want to see is that there is no guarantee that a revolution will come,
and what the aftermath will look like....and yet they are willing to gamble
our children's future for their emotional possible satisfaction.

So they can continue to say they will not work or donate to Obama,
and in stating that, they are indeed siding with those who hope that
Pres. Obama fails, and by extension that America fails.

Hate to say it, but for them, it is all about personality,
because if they were about the issues that they cared so deeply about,
they wouldn't want to take any chances in allowing more damage to many of the issues
as what would happen with a Republican in the White House.

[DonCoquixote]

46. AMEN

I realize there is a lot to call Obama to task for, but a lot of the dislike is personality.

Yes, there are some bigots that wanted to keep the boomers in charge, even if it was a Boomer like Clinton who did more to push the left out of the way than anyone else.

Yes, there are some anti-intellectuals, who hate the idea of chess, and wish he would would just talk in some "down ta errth" faux blue collar tone, like Ed Schultz or Mike Moore, even if the Blue Dogs would have stopped them.

Yes, there are some who will not let their precious Blue Dogs take any blame, like the people that defend Mary Landrieu, even as she wailed and whined for the oil rigs to get turned on pronto, oil spill be damned and in the same breath, yelled at Obama for not stopping BP.

Yes, there are radicals, like the Ted Ralls and Derrick Jensens, who think that if another FDR saved capitalism, they would not get that glorious revolution. Of course, these folks do not realize that in any serious revolution, their faux-intellectual ass would be the first ones strung up from lampposts, and that sadly, the American proletariat they claim to be in touch with would be the first to whine for a big daddy dictator that would fix everything, the way the Russians made Vladimir Putin a new Czar!

In short, there are a lot of Americans who frankly, are used to having their ego fed, and as much as there has been black times, they have no idea that the rest of the world has several rude awakenings that will make 9-11 look like a fender bender. After all, they all slammed Obama about keeping General Motors afloat; some wanted to let it rot, some wanted it to be taken over, but none will own up to the fact that Obama saved it. Noen will own up to the fact that we came real close to a full blown, BIG D depression, one that,let;'s face it, Bush was probably planning so that his brother Jeb could win in 2012, but no, people will just wait until the GOP gets to finally do it.

and of course, there will be peans about how Howard dean and dennis K could have saved all us in two weeks.

[obamafourmore]

34. Landslide. My condolences to DU.

[Uta]

35. I wonder what changes we'll see

Will there be a Dem or 3rd party challenger?
Will Obama have a pre-election staff shake up?
Will Biden stay on as veep?

Who will the GOP candidate be? Romney?

[treestar]

36. It will be horrid but the Republicans are going to make themselves

look so very bad, it will be only to our advantage.

[Agent William]

40. Nothing compared to 2016...

If we make it past 2012 that is...

[NillaWafers]

41. It will be sickening, n/t

[Arkana]

42. Put it this way: It will make the 1824 election look like a tea party in Versailles.

[Zoeisright]

44. I would only change one thing to my answer: violence isn't PROBABLE.

It's certain.

[vicarofrevelwood]

48. Bad times..

are coming for sure.

[rasputin1952]

47. The simple answer is it will be ugly...

regardless of whom the GOP runs. The somewhat larger problem is that many here have yet to realize that PO has been at the helm for some pretty hefty changes that are simply overlooked when people thrive on negatives.

Could he have done more, of course he could have, but there is a distinct lack of understanding of what he has helped to accomplish so far. I realize that people want their own situations to become a reality, but politics does not work that way. I think PO conceded too much to the RW, but there is still plenty of time for maore changes...it's the big picture that matters, not our own single issue wants.

Some of the more prominent achievements:

1. Established a Credit Card Bill of Rights
2. Closed the "doughnut hole" in Medicare Rx program
3. Expand eligibility for Medicaid
4. Expanded SCHIP
5. Expanded training for Primary Care physicians
6. Increased VA budget for mental health
7. Fully funded the VA
8. Fully funded the Violence Against Women Act
9. Ended the abuse of supplemental budgets for war
10.Created National Infrastructure Protection Plan
11.Increased funding for local emergency planning
12.Reform mandatory minimum sentences
13.Invested in alternative energy
14.Created job training program for clean technologies
15.Increase funding for EPA
16.Invested in public transportation
17.Extended unemployment insurance
19.Reversed restrictions on stem cell research
20.Ended DADT
21.Ended defending DOMA in court challenges
22.Expanded visiting rights to individuals formerly banned by some hospitals/health care institutions

These may not be seen as "great" advances, they are, none the less advances that would never have come about under an R administration. The thing about politics is that nothing is cut and dried. The object is to keep moving forward, opening doors and making sure there are things to build upon. Do I want universal health care, you bet, but I know that just getting a foot in the door and laying a foundation for the future is the time honored way of getting things done in DC.

The D's in congress need to spine up and retake the House if they want to get more done. We're starting to see some fire-in-the-belly from some of them. The mid-term was an anomaly, it should never have swung the House to the R's, there are several reasons why it went the way it did, but basically the R/Teabaggers were more organized and actually went out and voted. We, on the other hand were disorganized and did not vote in nearly the #'s required to keep the R's from taking the House and some Senate seats.

I think that when we look at the big picture instead of a few slides, we realize that we must fight for changes that benefit all of us as a society, and not drag ourselves down on an issue or two. there are plenty of things I'd like to see get done, and I'd like to see PO doing a lot more for the nation as a whole and leave the GOP in the dust. But as long as we are moving forward, I'll stick with PO...the alternative is a split party which very well might move R's into a position getting even more power...and I find that intolerable.

[vicarofrevelwood]

51. Well spoken.

:donut: coffee anyone?

[amandabeech]

55. A lot of people will vote their pocket books.

And a lot of those are empty or close to it.

When the Pukes say, "Are you better off today than you were four years ago," a lot of people are going to say, "No."

Then they'll vote for the pukes because Obama and the Dems are the ones in office.

For a lot of people, your list of accomplishments just isn't going to be relevant.

[old mark]

53. Worse- Really evil., beyond disgusting....nt

[cherokeeprogressive]

58. Seems to me that each election has been nastier than the last...

So I'm going with mucho nastio. Hella nasty. Uglier than a homemade shit fence.

[davidpdx]

59. It's going to be nasty especially since candidates will be allowed to get

unlimited funds from anywhere. The Republicans will try to BUY the presidency.

[lunatica]

61. As nasty as the people paying for the elections want it to be

That's a no brainer. As nasty as the Koch brothers, and the Chamber of Commerce want it to be.