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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 07:05 PM
Original message
More on the recovery.
NELP: A Year of Unbalanced Growth (PDF)

<...>

The backdrop to this report is an economy that is still facing a significant jobs deficit. During the Great Recession, the US lost more than 8.84 million private sector jobs, and to date has only managed to reduce that deficit by 1.26 million. Fully 13.9 million workers are still unemployed, nearly half of them for more than six months. Job creation, then, is still an urgent and immediate need for our economy.

At the same time, given that the last 12 months saw a net gain of more than a million jobs, it is important to begin to track the emerging recovery. We find the following:

In the private sector, there is a striking imbalance between where the recession’s job losses occurred, and where the growth of the past 12 months was concentrated:

  • Lower-wage industries constituted 23 percent of job loss, but fully 49 percent of recent growth
  • Mid-wage industries constituted 36 percent of job loss, and 37 percent of recent growth
  • Higher-wage industries constituted 40 percent of job loss, but only 14 percent of recent growth
The current recovery looks worse than the “jobless” recovery of the 2001 recession, on several fronts:

  • After a year of positive job growth, the private sector after the 2001 recession had recovered almost half (47 percent) of the jobs it had lost. By contrast, to date the private sector has recovered only 14 percent of the jobs it lost during 2008 and 2009.
  • The early job growth following the 2001 recession was more balanced than the early job growth following the 2008 recession, with significantly more growth in higher-wage industries.<...>


  • So 12 months after the Great Recession the economy only managed to create 1.26 million jobs.

    Now, about this: "After a year of positive job growth, the private sector after the 2001 recession..."

    Is NELP comparing apples to oranges? Here's a chart from the PDF:



    The 2001 recession lasted less than a year, ending late that year. It wasn't until 18 months later that the economy sustained net job creation. By contrast, the Great Recession lasted a year and a half, ending in mid 2009. Within months, early 2010, and since then the economy has sustained net job growth.

    Summary: It took a year and a half to achieve sustained net jobs after the 2001 recession. Based on the chart, this, "After a year of positive job growth, the private sector after the 2001 recession...." could only refer to the period from late 2003 to late 2004.

    It took only eight months to achieve sustained net jobs after the current recession, the worst in more than 70 years. The 12 months of positive job growth refers to the period from early 2010 to early 2011. An equivalent time frame after the 2001 recession would have been early 2002 to early 2003, a period where there was not 12 months of positive job growth. In fact, the chart above shows only one solid and one negligible uptick during that period.

    So what period is NELP using to compare to the period from early 2010 to early 2011? Apples to oranges: July 2003 to June 2004.



    The analysis gives the impression that this recovery is slower than in 2001, but that's not the case.



    source


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    Badfish Donating Member (543 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 07:32 PM
    Response to Original message
    1. Rec for recovery.
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    ClarkUSA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 07:37 PM
    Response to Original message
    2. The unrecs are already rolling in. Obviously, all positive economic news must be surpressed.
    Edited on Sun Mar-06-11 08:33 PM by ClarkUSA
    God forbid anyone get the impression that President Obama and his economic team are doing a great job of turning this country's economy around!

    :sarcasm:
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    Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 03:49 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    14. For a lot of people, screw the "macro" picture ... we're still looking for a J-O-B
    So I assume you HAVE a job.

    Pardon us if we're not jumping up and down about the economy.

    Bake
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    JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:40 PM
    Response to Reply #14
    28. Three out of five of my immediate family are out of jobs...
    And I'm looking at NOT going on vacation, NOT buying any new shoes, NOT doing home repairs, NOT doing a damn thing until this is all over so I can help them all out. Everything is falling apart and I can't spend the money right now because my family needs me. I can't even get a damn haircut.

    But guess what? I AM jumping up and down and I'm very thankful for the upturn. You see, I was paying attention when we were told this was going to take years. I was paying attention to the reports showing where we'd be right now if not for all the stimulus and jobs creation. I was paying attention to what I was being told, and it's all coming to fruition. So the fuck what if I live on bean burritos and oatmeal for another year? I'm happy to see things getting better despite businesses holding onto stimulus money instead of spending it like they were supposed to... and any number of other GOTP dirty tricks.

    You can do what you like... go ahead and cry and bitch... your negativity is very telling.
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    Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 05:21 PM
    Response to Reply #28
    32. You have no idea .. NO idea.
    And you're damn right I'm negative. If you'd been through a tenth of what I've been through, lost half as much as I have lost, you'd be negative too.

    So I'll believe there's a recovery when it starts to affect JOBS. A "jobless recovery" is NOT a recovery.

    Bake
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    JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 05:47 PM
    Response to Reply #32
    33. You have no idea what I've lost...
    Not a clue. I've lost a son, a home, and two of my siblings have lost their homes as well.

    You'll believe there's a recovery when your own needs are met... how fortunate that's all you need worry about. I'm worrying about five immediate family members, two siblings, a parent, and six nieces and nephews... all on one person's earnings... mine.

    I sure wish I could be selfishly clueless.
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    Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:33 PM
    Response to Reply #33
    36. And I too have lost a home, taken an 80% pay cut, and I have four people relying me.
    Plus, I've sold most of my possessions just to put food on the table. And you have the NERVE to call me selfish????!!

    Yeah, I'm worried about my family's needs. That's really selfish.

    I'm done with you.

    Bake
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    walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:32 PM
    Response to Reply #2
    35. All positive economic news?
    Maybe if this made any sense...

    All this stuff Prosense posted is sourced at a link that says in huge letters.

    "Jobs report could be a downer Private-sector employment is in its worst slump since WWII and unlikely to get better soon."

    Can't imagine why anyone would unrec a post when the post says the economy is kicking ass and the link to the source says private sector jobs are at their lowest in 70 years.

    :shrug:
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    BlueRidgeProgressive Donating Member (38 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 07:49 PM
    Response to Original message
    3. The President and his team deserve a large amount of credit for averting disaster.
    Things could have gotten much, much worse.
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    TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 08:20 PM
    Response to Reply #3
    4. Indeed. We may not be entirely happy, but we're not on the edge of the cliff anymore. nt
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    a kennedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:28 AM
    Response to Reply #4
    12. and it is so sad that this truth won't really come out.....
    :cry: :cry: :cry:
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    Avant Guardian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 12:33 AM
    Response to Reply #12
    23. The economy is held together with duct tape and bailing wire...
    The root of the problem has yet to be addressed. Lets hope Obama makes good on his promise to get rid of the Bush tax cuts.
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    Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:32 PM
    Response to Reply #3
    26. Recovery = not as bad as it could have been? This should make us happy.
    Wow!
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    JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:45 PM
    Response to Reply #26
    29. Yes, actually, it should
    40% of us could be in soup lines right now. You are sitting at a computer complaining... you don't have it near as bad as you think you do. The people who really have it bad haven't bathed in months and live on the street.

    I'm pretty damn sick of the selfishness I'm seeing here. Seriously sick.

    You don't have a fucking clue what it's like to really be down and out... if you were anywhere near that point you wouldn't be near a computer right now, not even a public one.
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    paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:14 PM
    Response to Original message
    5. does it really matter what they compare it to?
    the numbers speak for themselves -

    this "recovery" may look good on paper, but in the real word not much has changed.

    The mcjobs that are being created aren't going to go very far in getting us out of this mess.
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    ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:22 PM
    Response to Reply #5
    6. Yes,
    if they want to be accurate. Recoveries take time and comparing a period to one a year and a half later doesn't present a true picture.

    The text does say it may be too early to make a determination, but why make the comparison in that case?

    The other thing is that Bush's 2001 tax cuts, signed into law July of that year, were a miserable failure. The period NELP uses begins July 2003, a full two years later.



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    Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:25 PM
    Response to Original message
    7. 25% of US children in poverty. Welcome to the new definition of "Recovery" nt
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    ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:30 PM
    Response to Reply #7
    8. No, that's not the definition of recovery.
    The country is really screwed up. Poverty in the U.S. has been and continues to be abysmal




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    woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:12 PM
    Response to Reply #7
    15. +1000000 And the numbers keep growing.
    Lots of depressing talk everywhere about the "new normal."

    Recovery my ass.
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    Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:32 PM
    Response to Reply #7
    27. +1.
    And, double dip coming soon. :(
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    JuniperLea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:47 PM
    Response to Reply #7
    30. Yes, actually, it is...
    That is the level of poverty before this disaster! We should be happy it's not 40%! The current levels aren't nearly as bad as it was, or as it could have been.
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    Pirate Smile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 09:50 PM
    Response to Original message
    9. Thanks, Prosense. Kick & Rec.
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    girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-06-11 10:11 PM
    Response to Original message
    10. Not good, and it's about to get a whole lot worse.
    The recovery is absolutely anemic. The employment base is weak and still eroding, with replacement jobs mostly low-wage service sector work. We cannot afford the rise in gas prices. We can't afford the wars. We can't afford the continued inflation in health care costs. We certainly can't afford forced austerity at the federal, state and local level.

    Our country has very little to show for the vast wealth transfer from our Treasury and the Fed to Wall St, from the middle class to the Military Industrial Complex, from savers to speculators, from workers to rentiers. We are fighting for our survival now.
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    woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 04:15 PM
    Response to Reply #10
    16. Where's the beef in my McJob? nt
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    Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 03:08 AM
    Response to Reply #10
    25. +1000, Girl Gone Mad
    I don't see things getting better for people over 50. We remember when things were WAY BETTER than this!
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    eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:02 AM
    Response to Original message
    11. Wonderful. No net job growth for 15 years
    This is an ongoing disaster not mitigated by swings in the business cycle.
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    Badfish Donating Member (543 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:58 AM
    Response to Reply #11
    13. But we are moving in the right direction since ,
    Obama took office.

    If we keep this pace there might be almost 6 million jobs created by election day.

    But I imagine there will be some people complaining because unemployment won't be at 0%

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    eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 07:52 PM
    Response to Reply #13
    21. Creating that many jobs still leaves us with NO NET JOB GROWTH
    This is unacceptable. Please quit pretending that being on the up side of a business cycle compensates for that.
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    WolfoftheWild Donating Member (355 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:07 PM
    Response to Original message
    17. this is due to successful economic policy
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    great white snark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:12 PM
    Response to Original message
    18. K&R for some breathing room between us and Bush's abyss.
    Thanks for some good news ProSense!
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    politicasista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:30 PM
    Response to Original message
    19. Kick
    :kick: :patriot:
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    yellerpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 05:53 PM
    Response to Original message
    20. K&R!
    Good to tie facts to perspective. Thanks.
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    Safetykitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-07-11 11:43 PM
    Response to Original message
    22. Oh you gloomy-Gus! These are quality burger-flipping recovery type jobs.
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    golfguru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 01:38 AM
    Response to Reply #22
    24. Can you sneak a few burgers in while flipping them?
    that saves on food!
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    Jakes Progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 02:13 PM
    Response to Original message
    31. Here's a real world view of these numbers.
    Robert Reich: The Real News on Jobs http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-reich/the-real-news-on-jobs_b_831493.html

    But to get to the most important trend you have to dig under the job numbers and look at what kind of new jobs are being created. That's where the big problem lies.

    The National Employment Law Project did just that. Its new data brief shows that most of the new jobs created since February 2010 (about 1.26 million) pay significantly lower wages than the jobs lost (8.4 million) between January 2008 and February 2010.

    While the biggest losses were higher-wage jobs paying an average of $19.05 to $31.40 an hour, the biggest gains have been lower-wage jobs paying an average of $9.03 to $12.91 an hour.

    In other words, the big news isn't jobs. It's wages.


    For a view as to why the Wisconsin workers need more attention from Washington, the article goes on to say:

    The current attack on public-sector workers should be seen in this light. The charge is they now take home more generous pay and benefit packages than private-sector workers. It's not true on the wage side if you control for level of education, but it wasn't even true on the benefits side until private-sector benefits fell off a cliff. Meanwhile, across America, public-sector workers have been "furloughed," which is a nice word for not collecting any pay for weeks at a time.

    At this rate, the unemployment rate will continue to decline. But so will the pay and benefits of most Americans.


    This is why playing with numbers like this is the same as playing with people's lives. The richest .5% are wealthier than they ever were and made a killing from the bail out. They still have the money that they stole from us, money our government gave them. They are doing fine. And, all these happy numbers aside, the people of this country are not.
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    walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-08-11 06:28 PM
    Response to Original message
    34. So I went to the link you posted as a source and it said
    "Jobs report could be a downer Private-sector employment is in its worst slump since WWII and unlikely to get better soon."


    :shrug:

    It's your link.
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