Why are presidents always lawyers, career politicians ?

[TatonkaJames]

Why isn't a nobel prize winning economist or Dr. of Political Science ever picked to run
by either side ? Isn't this a sign we're sort of at the end of our road and the empire is
falling with no way of supporting it unless we have our own Egypt ?
Is there no chance for an FDR anymore ?
Is there no sane person who can fill those shoes ? Why aren't candidates like Kucinich elected
when he's obviously wiser than the others ? Appearance is my bet, Americans are gullible and
are taken easily for the good-looking boy scout who's hugging his dying wife on TV and is on
the bus schtooping his mistress. It's almost surreal watching it all end, like a movie you've
seen many times before because it makes you feel good. When are we going to change the channel ?
When you look at our policies, trade imbalances, work and factories leaving the mainland,
representatives ending up cast out for crimes or other affairs, what is wrong with us all ?
What is making everyone ? I just hit it, they dumbed us down so long, most Americans ARE
intellectually incapable of clear thought or logical reasoning by all, not one party, both.
The youth are in it deep and from where I sit I see little concern by as much as 90% of them
about their futures.
It's worse than you all think. We are on our way to the canvass. It's been documented in,
"Fall of the Empire" and "How it All Ended", or John Perkins books about how we conduct
our foreign policy, and I don't see how we're going to stop this train-wreck.
And they certainly aren't going to change the status quo. Would you vote yourself out of a job
with term limits ? Good luck with that. So take a look out your window, this is as good as it gets.
When I was working at a large pharma corporation my late manager said in the late 80's, "Enjoy it now
because these are the good old days."
He was right.

[sharp_stick]

1. Blah, Blah, Blah

why don't I get my way everytime I complain, why is my coffee too hot, why oh why is there always a line up when I need to get gas?

Why doesn't everyone just listen to ME... I know all, everything would be just perfect and I could quit complaining all the time if everyone would just do what I want them to do.

Roosevelt was a lawyer by the way so I guess he would have failed your test... From wiki

"Roosevelt entered Columbia Law School in 1904, but dropped out in 1907 because he had passed the New York State Bar exam. In 1908, he took a job with the prestigious Wall Street firm of Carter Ledyard & Milburn, dealing mainly with corporate law. He was first initiated in the Independent Order of Odd Fellows and was initiated into Freemasonry on October 11, 1911, at Holland Lodge No. 8 in New York City.<13>"

[TatonkaJames]

3. But was he for or against the working class

Maybe the "humaneness" I was speaking about didn't come through ?

[karynnj]

15. True - as are/were lawyers Teddy Kennedy, John Kerry, Dick Durbin, Pat Leahy, etc

Now, there is a Veterinarian in the Senate - John Ensign - is that what you want?
There are three doctors in the Senate - Tom Coburn, Rand Paul, John Barrasso and there is ex-Senator Bill Frist - Are they what you want?

Would you trade any of the lawyers I listed for any of these medical professionals?

[TatonkaJames]

35. I would replace them all, 'cept for Bernie Snders

When we get actual statesmen back in control, who are there for the right reasons, then
I'd begin to believe in the system again.

[WingDinger]

2. Duh, Bcause all the other lawyers would make lunch of him/her

[vroomvroom]

4. 1) Better Social Skills to Manipulate, 2) Money

Most politicians are lawyers who also happen to be extremely wealthy (most are > $1 million net worth). In their job they learn how to speak to a crowd.
This leaves little room for a blue colar worker who wants to challenge the system.

[obamafourmore]

5. Obama hardly worked as a lawyer. He could have been millionaire before he was 30

But instead he went to work in one of the poorest places in the country. You, on the other hand, is a regular whiner.

[Freddie Stubbs]

10. He is a millionaire now

[ClarkUSA]

13. Because people bought his books. Not because of his non-existent lawyering practice.

He's not nearly one-hundredth as wealthy as the author of Harry Potter books, though.

[Jersey Devil]

6. Because lawyers are the smartest people on Earth

LOL, I should know! I are one. :woohoo:

[GoCubsGo]

7. Jimmy Carter was not a lawyer. Nor, were Reagan or LBJ

Carter was a farmer and Naval officer before he ran for Governor. Reagan was an actor. LBJ started off as a teacher. And, Eisenhower was an Army general, his presidency was his only political office. Hardly a "career" politician.

[Ter]

24. Please tell me W wasn't a lawyer either

n/t

[GoCubsGo]

27. He wasn't..

He had an MBA. Nor, was his father, another businessman.

[Kdillard]

8. Imo because most Americans could not pick an economist out of a line up.

Getting elected to an office is not easy. It costs money, organization and the backing of your political party. You also have to be a people person. Even with all of that you can still lose. Politicians that are successful work hard at it and it would make no sense for a well respected economist to give up their chosen field to run in something that is basically an expensive crapshoot. No political party would invest all that money on that losing prospect with no name recognition and no clue as to how to get anything through Congress. Also being President does not make you King. As President you have to deal with Congress and if they don't want to pass something even if it is a good idea it will not become law. I can just imagine the frustration on all sides if an economist were on the slim chance ever elected to the Presidency. I doubt DU would be any happier.

[Alcibiades]

9. Political scientists, as a rule, don't practice politics

We study it. If you hold a Ph.D. in political science, which I do, you spend your time writing papers in order to get tenure or a better job, out of habit and because it's what you're trained to do. You can, and most folks do, earn a Ph.D. in political science without having the foggiest notion of how to organize a precinct. It is worth noting, though, that many of the folks who go on to become lawyers are political science majors.

You're not the first person to ask why so many presidents, and politicians generally, are lawyers. In fact, the question has been investigated extensively by--you guessed it--political scientists. One reason given has been the nature of the legal profession itself: since most lawyers work for themselves, they have the time, ability and income needed to go into politics, and they share many of the same contacts. There's also a dual selection effect going on, and a possible case of spuriousness: since many young rich people choose to become lawyers, you might observe many politicians are lawyers, but the real independent variable isn't their law career, but their social background. There's also the issue of the nature of the work: relating to juries and judges is not unlike the relationship between politicians and voters, plus the legal profession is one of the few left wherein public speaking is part of the curriculum, an obviously desirable skill for a politician. Then, too, there's the idea that politicians make laws and lawyers practice law, so the two fields are related in that way.

It's not unheard of for an academic political scientist to become a politician--in fact, I am represented in the House by one who did so, David Price. I think he's probably only slightly better than most other members of the Democratic caucus. I don't know if political scientists would be good politicians, or produce a better politics. The area of political science that might produce a better quality of politician, in my opinion, is normative political theory, but it is also the area most remote from political practice.

Many practitioners of politics are political scientists, but it's unusual for them to have earned an advanced degree: generally, I'd think a degree in law or an MA in political science or public administration would be good for a political practitioner. By practitioner, of course, I mean someone who manages campaigns, not an actual candidate, which requires a different skillset, if not a different background. David Axelrod, for example, majored in political science as an undergraduate at Chicago, which has one of the best (if most conservative) departments in the country. Another political practitioner with a degree in political science is Karl Rove.

[Exilednight]

40. That's actually quite interesting, but I have another question for you that I hope you might be able

to answer. Why don't presidents, or those elected, try to appoint Nobel prize winners to cabinet positions? I know it's done in many other countries, but within the US many continue a life in academics.

It would seem to me that it would be much smarter to put someone with an a degree in economics in charge of organizations like the Fed, SEC, and treasury instead of those with MBAs.

[Shiver]

Secretary of Energy Stephen Chu

Holds a Nobel Prize in Physics.

[Shiver]

55. Dupe

[Hippo_Tron]

46. Paul Wellstone also had a political science PhD

And while I don't know this for a fact, I would speculate that his academic experience did help him to organize the grassroots movement that got him to the Senate.

[treestar]

11. The skills involved

It takes people skills.

And now when we see legislatures proposing and passing laws that blatantly violate the constitution without even looking into the issues, I'm thinking lawyers are much safer to have as legislators. At least they'd have some inkling for example, that a state can't have an immigration law.

[JoePhilly]

12. Let's pick Sarah Palin, she's no lawyer ... or economist, or rocket scientist ...

she's one of us.

ugh.

[ClarkUSA]

14. In China, almost all of the top leaders are engineers. Go figure.

[nemo137]

28. Our two engineer-presidents were Hoover and Carter.

Both utterly fascinating men who did a bunch of good, but not great presidents.

[stevenleser]

16. Why are you repeating right wing talking points?

And generalizations about attorneys and politicians?

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Alexander]

45. Nothing is locked and no one is tombstoned.

You, however, are so pathetic you're responding to your own posts.

[slackmaster]

17. Our political system is a gigantic perversion of what it was originally intended to be

Public service was supposed to be something that people did as a temporary diversion from their normal careers as farmers, opticians, buggy whip makers, etc.

[onenote]

34. more myth than reality

Check out the background of the members of the First Congress. Almost all of them were lawyers. Almost all of them had served in a legislative role prior to the forming of the first Congress. And the vast majority of them continued in public service after they left Congress, either as a member of state legislature, a governor, a member of the judiciary, or a diplomat. The main difference was that being a legislator back then was a part time job -- Congressional sessions were relatively short owing to a variety of factors.

[Hippo_Tron]

47. Governing in the 21st century is also a lot more complicated than it was in the 18th cenutry

If this "citizen legislature" model every actually existed, I'm certainly glad it doesn't anymore.

[jberryhill]

19. You do realize that FDR was also a lawyer, yes?

Whatever one's background, a decent grip on how the law works is pretty much a requirement for the job. The office is defined by law and deals directly with the law.

[madamesilverspurs]

20. brain pain!

Just tried to picture Shrub attempting the LSAT.

Ouch.

-

[rug]

21. The last President who neither held a political office nor was a lawyer was Eisenhower.

[Fuddnik]

31. George W. Bush wasn't a lawyer.

Too dumb to get into law school. He got an MBA instead.

[rug]

32. He was a governor.

Truman. Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Reagan were not lawyers either but they all held political office before the presidency.

[jmowreader]

50. Chief of Staff of the Army is a political position

You don't get elected to it, but it's a very political job.

His commanding the European Theater in WWII gave him international statesmanship skills--another political thing.

[ReggieVeggie]

22. to rise to political power you have to be an establishment darling

that way they can ensure that you do what they want you to do

[JI7]

23. they aren't always that, there was Dr. Frist and the father/son Pauls who are medical doctors

Coburn is a medical doctor also.

and i would rather have career politicians than what we are getting in california with term limits . serve for a few years and just use it to get some lobbying job or anything else to make money for yourself rather than improving the state.

[Ikonoklast]

25. Uhhh, Kucinich is the quintessential career politician.

It's what he's done his entire life.

He is exactly what you are complaining about.

[craigmatic]

26. Presidents have traditionally been from the military, lawyers, or politicians.

Sure we've had actors and haberdashers and rich kids. It's nothing new.

[Ter]

29. Yet the last three presidents were not in the military

Also, the last three candidates with military experience (all with heavy experience by the way, and all in combat in wars as well) lost. That would be Dole, Kerry, and McCain.

[stevenleser]

33. Not quite right. George W. Bush was a pilot in the USAF n/t

[Alexander]

39. Wrong. Bush was a pilot in the Texas Air National Guard. And he went AWOL.

Had he been in the USAF, Bush would've been shipped off to Vietnam.

[stevenleser]

42. You realize that distinction is irrelevant as to the question of whether someone served in the

military, right?

[Alexander]

43. You do realize that you were incorrect and you're not admitting it, right?

The very important distinction between the TANG and the USAF is that if Bush had actually served in the USAF as you claimed, he would have been sent off to Vietnam.

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[karynnj]

56. AND lost flying privledges for unknown reasons - rumored to be not taking physical test

- so he SHOULD have been kicked out of the NG, which paid a lot of money to train him - and shipped to Vietnam.

[Hippo_Tron]

48. That's because there's no draft anymore

[onenote]

30. FDR was both a lawyer and career politician

You need to check the history books before posting.

[RBInMaine]

36. Bush wasn't a lawyer.

[RBInMaine]

37. If you are going to be making laws, it's nice to know something about law and government.

[The Straight Story]

41. Presidents don't make laws (nt)

[MikeW]

38. I dont want a college professor running anything .....

OOOPS

[Synicus Maximus]

49. Is there no chance for an FDR anymore ? " You mean there is

no longer a chance that a millionaire and career politician to be elected President? FDR did some great things but he had been a politician for 20 years before he was elected President and was in no way a working man or men of the people.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

51. Do you want someone who isn't a "career plumber" fixing your cistern? N.T.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ShadowLiberal]

53. 1) Social skills, 2) The ultra smart/gifted don't usually have the personality to lead

The very smartest people we have who would probably be the best at problem solving and long term planning as a leader are the scientists and inventors and such I would think.

The people who tend to be the smartest, such as inventors, scientists, etc and other jobs needing big brains, tend to be filled by people who may be really smart, but who aren't the best socially.

Often part of what makes some people the very best at math and science is their brain is different, with some parts used for those subjects much bigger then usual. But that often makes them suffer in other areas to, like socially. When some of the greatest scientists were kids people thought they were retarded, because they just didn't understand them. For example I've read that as a kid Thomas Edison once tried to hatch a chicken egg like a mother hen, sitting on it to keep it warn, which made people think he wasn't too smart.

Albert Einstein, once he got old enough to work, originally wanted to get a job as a teacher. He showed he was a brilliant guy later in life, but no one would hire him to be a teacher, because he just wasn't too good socially.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

54. Most Democratic politicians are lawyers.

Most republican politicians aren't.

I see Republicans writing unenforceable laws trying to regulate lots of silly stuff. If they had gone to law school, they might have taken a course called Legislation. Legislation is about how to write a valid, enforceable law.

But they write laws banning Sharia law, which also bans "international law". Guess what? The laws of the United States are from England and in Louisiana, from France, the Code Napoleon. In Texas, the marital property law is Spanish, and gives women the right to hold property in their own name, as of 1836. That is far more progressive than the English law. Ooops, there goes all our law, which came from Europe.

Or they try to ban baggy pants. :banghead:


I am a lawyer with a degree from a Texas law school, but I do not play one on TV. :D

[Mass]

57. FDR was a lawyer and a politician.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt

Nothing wrong with both of them. There are good and bad lawyers. There are good and bad politicians.

[TatonkaJames]

58. I know about FDR

Maybe the "humaneness" I was speaking about didn't come through ?