Obama needs to be primaried in 2012

[derby378]

There, I've said it.

A primary fight will get a lot of us squabbling at each other and cost Obama and the other candidates some cash, but it has to be done.

Obama has committed two of the biggest blunders you can make as President: "Bend over too far backwards" and "Lose sight of the goal."

By bending over too far backwards to accommodate not centrists but actual right-wingers on everything from health care to unions to Guantanamo Bay to tax cuts for the rich, Obama is losing sight of his goal of governing as a Democratic President - and losing the support of the party loyalists who put him in office in the first place.

On the campaign trail next year, Obama doesn't have to explain any of his actions to the teabaggers or to Republicans. But he's got some explaining to do to us. And unless he gets primaried in 2012, he probably never will.

[tekisui]

1. I agree. KNR!

I doubt he can be beaten, but he should be challenged and pushed. He has badly lost his way.

[derby378]

4. His 11-dimensional tiddlywinks has morphed into Go Fish

Even if he wins the primaries, at least he won't be rubber-stamped. No DUer should want Obama to be subjected to a mere formality - our next President needs to earn the right to run on our ticket.

[joeybee12]

2. The first thing someone runnning for re-election needs to do is shore up the base...

seems to me Obama thinks he can do that last.

[TreasonousBastard]

3. I give up-- this idiotic idea just won't go away.

[tekisui]

There's a reason this idea won't go away.

[derby378]

9. Madison

That says it all.

[ProSense]

34. What about

Madison?

In Wisconsin Obama’s Approval Soars as Scott Walker Plummets

[derby378]

39. Uh, Walker's WINNING

Polls mean nothing at this point if you're a union worker who's just learned that her government just took away most of her rights.

[ProSense]

44. "Walker's WINNING"

And here's what he won.

Still, if you think that's winning, that explains the OP.

[BklnDem75]

128. So is Charlie Sheen

Hint: That's not winning

[rasputin1952]

160. Not really...

for one thing, that vote may have been illegal, but beyond that...Walker may have won a skirmish, but he lost the war. There will be recalls of the at least 4 of the 8 that are recallable. Not to mention Walker's most likely recall in January. The price the GOP paid for this skirmish will have nationwide consequences.

[polmaven]

166. And the fact that

the heads of both of the largest Unions - AFL-CIO and SEIU - have thanked the president for what he has said, and agree that he should not have gone any further than he has, means absolutely nothing??? The US government *did not* take away most of the union workers' rights. The WI Republicans did.

[grahamhgreen]

70. That's what they said about Obama 2008!

[Union Scribe]

140. Pesky fucking democracy.

[mike_c]

5. he'll just run another great campaign, make a bunch of great promises...

...and then sell Americans out again. Unless, of course, someone beats him in a primary. I could certainly get behind THAT idea!

[bigdarryl]

6. yeah thats a bright idea and let someone like Gingrich or Palin become President

[tekisui]

10. Boogey boogey boo!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mike_c]

15. fear fear fear....

:puke:

[pnwmom]

21. Some people learn from history, and some people prefer

to keep their delusions.

You're someone who has learned.

[emilyg]

62. Not a chance either one of those would.

[dennis4868]

63. BUT AT LEAST....

we will challenge Obama....sure the country will really be fucked if Obama is primaried (see Bush I and Carter) and so what if we get a President Palin, at least we challenged Obama because all we got is this in just 2 short years www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

[derby378]

74. There's not going to be a President Palin, keep your shirt on...

As for the site in question:

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years - That's not so hard, Bush was giving jobs away...

Appointed first Latina to the US Supreme Court - Skin color doesn't matter to me, but voting recod does, and she's done some good

Issued executive order to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay - And yet, lo and behold, there it sits, like a festering boil

Ended Bush administration's CIA program of 'enhanced interrogation methods' by requiring that the Army field manual be used as the guide for terrorism interrogations - Bradley Manning?

Obama has done some good in the White House. We were counting on more than "some good," however.

[Name removed]

81. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

97. Here's a little secret...

Obama is Commander-in-Chief of our military, and last I saw, that little outpost in Cuba is still under military jurisdiction. Hell, Obama has to sign a little piece of paper every year to exempt Area 51 in Nevada from all those pesky EPA regulations, but if it weren't for that signature, Air Force Flight Test Center, Detachment 3's wall of secrecy would have a huge hole in it.

[Politicalboi]

248. She would be more prone to run

If Obama got challenged. I read a lot here about Rebukes always win because they stand together. This will show a weakness in the party at a time when we need 4 more years of a Democratic President. The Repukes WILL put that crazy witch in the WH if they knew she could win. It would make the crybaby Teabaggers happy, and maybe they will stand more with the Repukes if Sarah is Dog forbid President. They'll give the Teabaggers enough rope just to hang themselves, and then attack. The Repukes need 4 more years to get a really good candidate in there for 2016 when they run someone against Palin. That is if she hasn't quit by then LOL!

[grahamhgreen]

72. Obama CAN NOT win. Face it. He's boned the base, and his wall street pals will vote Repub.

[derby378]

94. I cannot stress that one point enough...

No matter how much Obama gives to the Republicans, no matter how much he tries to placate the health insurance companies, no matter how many tax cuts for the rich he signs into law, it ain't gonna matter one whit in 2012, because they're all going to turn around and bite the President in the ass, because they don't know what loyalty or gratitude is.

We, the Democrats, are the only friends that Obama has. And Bernie Sanders.

[Name removed]

202. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

158. Deleted message

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[creon]

188. Objectively speaking

Objectively speaking, you are a Republican.

[Name removed]

201. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Starbucks Anarchist]

227. Put your money where your mouth is.

$20 says he'll be reelected.

[ReggieVeggie]

111. so a primary challenge == Republican win?

for all the hard partisanship I see coming from some of you, you seem to be awfully afraid of fighting...if you believe in Obama, you can support him during the primary battle...stop being so anti-democratic

[polmaven]

167. You might want to try

reading some history books.

[ReggieVeggie]

219. So history dictates how one proceeds?

again, seems to me that'sd just weakness and lack of conviction

[polmaven]

221. Well,

you know the saying-----or maybe you don't. We ignore history at our peril.

"Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Those who do not remember their past are condemned to repeat their mistakes." - George Santayana

[ReggieVeggie]

223. Ok, so we can't have a primary challenge for an incumbent who...

has, to say the least, been fairly disappointing because, historically, primary challenges to the incumbent weaken the party and degrade the chances of an incumbent win. I can see that. I can grasp it. My question would then be, do we really have much of a democracy? Even much of a representative republic?

Let's say Obama is not challenged. He doesn't tack slightly left and "stays true" to his particular leanings and ideological agenda. If he loses without a primary challenger, then what? We''l just wait 8 years and try again?

Historically, a primary challenger may lead to the incumbent's downfall. I'm just wondering where it will be possible to see representation of our values come across if Obama not pressed to answer for his failures and his right-leaning attitudes and actions. Do we really have democracy if you can't argue amongst yourselves and not be the worse for ware?

[polmaven]

224. President Obama

has not been perfect. I, personally, do not want to even KNOW anyone who is perfect. He has not, though, been *nearly* as "fairly disappointing" as many here make him out to be, and he is MUCH better than ANY Republican.
He actually has accomplished a lot in two years given what he had to work with and what he inherited.

What I am seeing here, more and more, are unrealistic expectations of what the POTUS is able to accomplish, when he does not have absolute power to do everything he wants to do. He is not nearly as "right leaning" as you and many others are making him out to be. Please do not assume "our values" are all the same.

Of course we have a vibrant democracy. Just because you are not always able to get exactly what you want doesn't mean democracy doesn't exist. Just the opposite.

[ReggieVeggie]

231. oh, "exactly what I want" that's so much bullshit

Obama has been a huge disappointment to liberals and left-leaners who worked their ass off to get him his percentage-points win over McCain.

He is not very liberal and he can't lead on anything, other than chief of finger-in-the-wind political maneuvering.

[polmaven]

241. Well, i guess

we are going to have to disagree on this. i am very much a "left-leaner" Democrat, and have likely been one since before you were even born. While disappointed in some of his decisions, I have been very pleased with the majority of his 26 months in office....... See ya round! - Later!

[DeSwiss]

119. ....

[Union Scribe]

141. Ed!!!!!C3enk!!!!arrgghhhh

!!!!

[DutchLiberal]

229. What's the difference with Obama?

Seriously. I want to know.

Obama keeps Guantanamo Bay open and has decided to keep people who have never had a trial and against whom the state doesn't have a shred of evidence locked up indefinitely. Will Palin and Gingrich do worse?

Obama continues the practice of extraordinary rendition, by which suspects everywhere can be abducted and brought to shady places, mostly in the Middle East, where they let them be tortured by the local intelligence agencies. Will Palin and Gingrich do worse?

Obama has supported and legitimized the coup d'état against a democratically elected leftist president in Honduras in 2009, and people are dying as a result of it. Will Palin and Gingrich do worse?

Obama has left tens of thousands of soldiers and permanent American military bases in Iraq, and is expanding the war in Afghanistan, while at the same time using 'drones' to expand it into Pakistan. Will Palin and Gingrich do worse?

Obama has given an extended tax cut to the wealthiest 2% of Americans, but hasn't gotten the regular people the 'public option' for health insurance he promised. Instead, he lets corporations still run the show, leaving 30 million uninsured. Will Palin and Gingrich do worse?

[barbiegeek]

242. Or Walker from WI

[ProSense]

7. "everything from health care to unions to Guantanamo Bay " It would

help to support your argument with facts. People like Lieberman stood in the way a more progressive health care bill and it was the Democratic caucus that cut funding for Guantanamo.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

16. You would know. n/t

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

109. !!!

[derby378]

19. Then there's no harm in a primary challenge, right?

Let Obama debate with whomever runs against him on the issues facing him in the White House. If he wins (and he just might), at least we had the debate in Democratic circles.

[pnwmom]

23. History shows us there's ALWAYS harm in a primary challenge.

It chops our candidate off at the knees just as he's going into combat with the Rethug.

Obama needs to focus all his time, money, and efforts into fighting the Rethugs -- not other Dems.

[derby378]

31. I thoroughly agree with your last sentence

Who'da thunk it? :hi:

[pnwmom]

40. Well, that's something.

:hi:

[nxylas]

249. Maybe you need to tell him that

It's about time he finally started attacking Republicans, instead of his own voters.

[27inCali]

107. let's waste all our energy kicking each other in the teeth

while Fascism with a capitol fucking F knocks on the door?

[avebury]

215. I want to vote

for someone who I believe in not for someone that is only the least of evils. Obama has proven to be a Republican lite and has caved in to the Republicans way too many times. I will probably vote for him in the general election but I won't be happy about it.

Russ Feingold 2012!

[Critters2]

8. This should be fun!

:popcorn:

[louslobbs]

206. I'll give my vote to that beautiful Beagle.

Lou

[pnwmom]

12. This is why people should study history. This dumb idea has been tried before.

And all it does is weaken the Dem in the general election. The only people who should be supporting this are the ones who secretly want the Rethug to win.

[derby378]

24. Funny, I don't see where Obama was weakened by his primary in 2008

He demoralized the McCain camp so badly they had to try a Hail Mary by bringing Sister Sarah on - and they still lost to us.

[pnwmom]

33. He wasn't an incumbent then; he was a new, exciting candidate

that many people projected their fondest hopes on -- including many DUers.

Now he's not campaigning on people's projections, he's campaigning on a record -- and any President's record, since it has to be negotiated with the other side, will leave many supporters disappointed. A primary campaign will just magnify that sense of disappointment and weaken him in the general election.

[DCBob]

55. +1

correct.

[kiranon]

130. Agree. We have our candidate and he is the sitting President - Obama.

He may not be perfect but if Obama is primaried it just opens the door for the Republicans.

[Faygo Kid]

13. First candidate I supported was Gene McCarthy in 1968. Time for another.

I think it may very well be that a challenge from the left will be necessary.

Got to stand for something sometime.

[pnwmom]

18. So you were one of the ones who helped Nixon to win.

Thanks a lot.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dflprincess]

114. Johnson would not have won

The fact that McCarthy made such a strong second place showing in New Hampshire proved that.

Nixon won because Bobby Kennedy was killed and the Democrats nominated Humphrey who refused to break with Johnson's Vietnam policy until it was too late to make a difference.

[jaysunb]

131. Yes...he would have been re-elected

He didn't throw in the towel because of McCarthy....lets not try to re-write history. :evilfrown:

[dflprincess]

194. LBJ saw the handwriting on the wall that's why he dropped out. n/t

[polmaven]

169. Gene McCarthy!!

Yeah - THAT worked well, huh?

[Thrill]

17. Only one group benefits from a Primary

The Republicans

[derby378]

20. Then how do you explain what happened in 2008?

We had the mother of all primaries. And we still beat the GOP. Case closed.

[dionysus]

26. because we didnt have an incumbant on the ticket.

[ReggieVeggie]

113. so, incumbency = automatic weakness?

[polmaven]

170. What????

What a ridiculous question THAT is. Maybe you need some coffee to wake your brain up!

[Solomon]

178. There must be some very young people

on this board. They don't know any history at all. It's stunning to see the ignorance.

[polmaven]

197. Stunning is a very nice way

to put it. I won't write what I am thinking, though.

[ReggieVeggie]

220. apparently you didn't read the previous post

where that was implied

[pnwmom]

27. In case you didn't notice, we had no incumbent.

We do now, and all we will do is weaken him. Get informed. Read some history. This tactic doesn't work.

[Thrill]

51. You weren't primaring your OWN President

from your Party. Wake up. Ask Ted Kennedy and Carter how it works

[Starbucks Anarchist]

52. Do you understand what an incumbent is?

:banghead:

It's been explained to you in this thread several times. So either you're ignoring it or you're missing some brain cells.

[krawhitham]

54. Are you that dumb or just trying to start a flame war

You do not primary your OWN President


Tell me one time it worked out well, I know it did Carter wonders

[derby378]

58. I'll say it one more time...

If Obama wins the primary, fine, he wins, and we all get out the fucking vote for Obama and other Democrats in November, but at least Obama had the chance to defend his record to other Democrats during the primary. Nobody rides for free. That's how we wound up with Herr Fucking Decider in 2000 in the first place.

[Control-Z]

60. No. Case not closed.

Your mind may be closed, however.

Do you understand what an incumbent is? There was no incumbent in 2008.

[Exilednight]

118. I disagree. Voters benefit from choice. n/t

[dionysus]

22. oh lord.

[derby378]

29. If Obama wins the primary, he wins, no harm, no foul

But how do you sharpen a sword that's become dull?

Use it to chop down small trees?

Skewer some old pumpkins with the tip?

Or grind the edge of the blade against a decent file or wheel?

[pnwmom]

35. A primary won't sharpen his sword, it will chop him off at the knees.

A dumb thing to do if we want him to win the general.

[grahamhgreen]

77. If he's so good, he's got nothin to worry about.

[BlueIris]

28. Personally, I feel the Party has no choice but to pursue this option.

At this point, I do not think he is reelectable, and contrary to the "indications" of a bunch of skewed, b.s. polls, support for him is very weak. For the Democrats to ignore these problems would be total political suicide, regardless of the 2012 outcome. I just hope it's a real primary challenger, not a fake "just to show we tried" challenger.

ETA: I am not actually as pessimistic as I sound in these posts. I feel quite confident we will see a strong nominee in 2012 and that we will keep the White House.

[Lorien]

45. I think that we can pick up larger majorities in the Senate and regain congress

if more Dems act like the Wisconsin 14. But I'm certain that we'll lose the Presidency if Obama runs again (he may not). I only know two supporters of his personally at this point (and I don't know many Conservatives outside of work contacts). I knew hundreds election night...and the two supporters who are left are having doubts.

[jtrockville]

69. I agree BlueIris.

He's lost much of the progressive support by cow-towing to Republicans under the guise of "compromise". All he gained by that is a good chastising from the Republicans.

[polmaven]

198. Exactly to where

is he towing the cows?

[dionysus]

175. just because you *believe* democrats everywhere think obama is terrible, doesnt even make it so

seriously. just because some people on a message board who self identify as dems can't stand him, doesn't mean the party at large does. not even close.

[MadMaddie]

30. It's amazing that the lesson has not been learned

This is the kind of talk that convinced people not to vote in November. Instead of saying hey let's replace weak Democratic Senate and House Members and get super majority in both houses you choose to attack President Obama.

You must have forgotten that it is the House and Senate especially the Senate that failed the Democratic party.



It's almost as if.....

you want a Nader moment......?

[derby378]

36. Obama, whether he likes it or not...

...has a really big microphone that he's been too shy about using. It's called the Oval Office.

I like the idea about replacing some of our weaker Democrats on the Hill, but when CT Dems tried to replace Lieberman with Lamont in 2006, you know what happened next.

A little Sun Tzu is what our party needs right now.

[pnwmom]

38. I think there are many here still in the Nader camp who would actually

prefer anyone but a Democrat to win.

[dennis4868]

64. "the Senate that failed the Democratic party"

You are forgetting one thing.....most people here at DU think that Obama can do whatever he wants too without congress' approval....they think he is king and change should come in 2 quick years.....

[JoePhilly]

32. Please tell us who you have drafted for this nobel cause!!!!!!

Oh wait ... no one.

This is not fantasy land.

Where is you magic candidate ... the one who defeats Obama, and also wins in 2012???

Who is it?

[grahamhgreen]

67. Obama can't win in 2012, unless he changes radically to the left, so it don't matter, bur

we neeeeeeeed Feingold.

[JoePhilly]

168. There is a reason no one from the GOP has announced yet.

Even they know they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of beating Obama.

[robcon]

233. Obama will win easily in 20012.

His approval is terrific, he's won over independents (even more than in '08) which are the key to winning the presidency.

He's a lock unless he's primaried.

[Telly Savalas]

244. The midterm election was evidence of a leftist surge taking over American politics?

Feingold lost his last election. He's a great guy but your assessment of the political landscape is pure fantasy.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[derby378]

43. Reality? Uh, MADISON

Not to mention Guantanamo Bay and tax cuts for the rich. Did I mention that one earlier?

Yes, Obama has had some successes, but even some of those have been blunted by compromise with the enemy.

[dennis4868]

68. "Guantanamo Bay"

you see this is the nonsense that is spreading all over DU....Obama gets blamed for Gittmo not being closed when it is congress that will not fund it....this is just one of MANY examples of DUers being out of touch with reality and thinking that Obama can do whatever THE FUCK he wants to do without congress' approval and funding.....HE IS NOT A KING!

[polmaven]

199. I'm sure that

if you send a check to the white hoiuse large enough to fund closing Gitmo, the president will be happy to use it.

[dennis4868]

66. "Progressives wackjobs seem to be too delusionsal to deal in reality"

well said! They are so out of touch with reality that it is scary....as I have said they are mad at Obama because he follows the constitution and does not pass laws all by himself....they blame him for the weak dems in congress (especially in the senate)....

[Lorien]

42. Agree 100%

Those of us who are not right wing "Democrats" can't vote for him again, because we don't vote for those who side with corporate interests over those of the people. The only way for the Party to have a winning ticket in 2012 is for the people to choose a new candidate.

[dennis4868]

71. It's funny...

corporate america say that he is anti business and Progressives say he is pro business....hahaha....something is not right....some people always have to complain, especially those on the left....they want change by yesterday....don't understand that change happens in baby steps....so sad!

[Rowdyboy]

46. Until you have a serious candidate willing to consider it this is just mental masturbation....

Certainly speculation is fun but no one credible on the left has shown the slightest interest in running against Obama. You're asking someone to probably end their political career, raise tens of millions of dollars and split their own party. Then, should they succeed in beating him for the nomination, 90% of the black voters in America would stay home furious at the candidate who humilated our first black president, which would certainly elect whatever batshit crazy Republican runs.

Most leftists, like most politicians in America today, are spineless gimps. Of the very few who aren't I can't think of a single one suicidal enough to take on that challenge. Where do they get the money? How do they win back the black vote? If Hillary versus Barack nearly destroyed the party, anyone beating Barack would set back civil rights 60 years. Not going to happen.

[derby378]

47. Tim Kaine has been busy trying to pressure other Dems not to run in 2012

He even came out at the beginning of the year and said there wasn't going to be a primary challenge. Last I heard, however, that's not up to him.

[muriel_volestrangler]

78. But it seems you don't have a serious candidate

Can you give a recent (say, since universal suffrage) example of when a significant primary against a sitting president was either successful in winning the nomination and then the election, or was survived by the president who went on to win? And if so, what makes them more relevant than Bush Sr. getting primaried, Carter getting primaried, or Ford or Johnson?

[Rowdyboy]

90. The decision is up to elected officials of the party, who so far show no interest in a kamikaze

mission. Until you can suggest a single serious candidate you're just diddling around-its not serious because no one of the potential candidates has any interest in being a pariah.

When you have a viable candidate, then you have a serious discussion. Until then, as I said, it merely mental masturbation-great fun but nothing more than a waste of time.

[vaberella]

92. You people give Tim power when you wan and then take it away other times.

He has that much power that he can do that?! If they cared so much, if the Dems thought they had such a chance--they would never be pressured. This is fuckin' stupid.

[bornskeptic]

115. That's not pressuring. It's merely stating a fact

which is obvious to anyone with any political sense at all.

[dionysus]

48. STEP 1 republicans pull a dick move STEP 2 forget about the republicans, blame Obama. STEP 3 repeat

[grahamhgreen]

76. We need someone who will stand up to them. Obama aint it.

[DCBob]

49. Wow, you must enjoy Republicans winning elections.

An ugly primary will only damage our chances of keeping the WH and will likely negatively impact other races.
:thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown::thumbsdown:

[Howler]

50. K&R

K&R

[tallahasseedem]

53. This is a fucking stupid idea...

There, I've said it.

[CakeGrrl]

56. Well don't just stand here wishing and hoping - go git 'er done! n/t

Oh wait...



:eyes:

[Pirate Smile]

57. Dumb, counterproductive idea.

[Countdown_3_2_1]

59. A little competition never hurts. Primary him! nt

[dennis4868]

61. I agree...

we got nothing these past 2 years.....all of the worlds problems have not been fixed in just 2 years.....Obama is president...fuck congress....Obama can do whatever he wants too....he does not need congress' approval for anything....PRIMARY HIM!

www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

[Sky Masterson]

65. What-the-fuck-ever

I haven't been thrilled with many of his acts but he is our best shot of stopping/slowing the repukes..
We can primary him and welcome President Romney in 2012..That should make things better...That will show him!

[dennis4868]

73. But at least....

we got the satisfaction of challenging Obama....NOT

I am sure a repub president would have done all of -----> www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

[Sky Masterson]

79. Yeppers!

I am having a hell of a time walking...Will you consider helping me cut off and eat my own foot?

[dennis4868]

82. huh?

[Sky Masterson]

84. Exactly

!

[dennis4868]

86. whatever!

www.whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com

http://blackwaterdog.wordpress.com/

http://www.eclectablog.com/

[namahage]

105. Um, I think that poster agrees with you. n/t

[Sky Masterson]

155. You would be correct.!

I just let people go sometimes.It's much more entertaining. :P :rofl:

[grahamhgreen]

75. I agree 100%. I know it's tough for some here to admit they've been conned - but we have.

[DCBob]

83. clue......

less.

[great white snark]

87. Not "we", please speak for yourself. Good luck recruiting Feingold to run.

His failure to win his own state makes him a perfect candidate to primary Obama!

:crazy:

[vaberella]

95. I went in eyes wide open. I had no conning done to me. You're in it alone. n/t

[grahamhgreen]

96. Did you think he would close Gitmo? Fight for EFCA? Stand for a Public Option?

[babylonsister]

129. Do you think if he were acting alone he wouldn't have done

any of those things? Here's a clue; he's not king.

[grahamhgreen]

135. I no longer believe he would.

I'm glad you do.

[vaberella]

237. Well then, no point in talking to you about the issue.

You're already set to believe he's a corrupt bastard. I can see why the push for a primary. It's a bit sad when people seem to treat Obama as a dictator---when most of their complaints---based on some of the ones you named in my post have everything to do with Congress. You'd think we'd know how civics works by now.

[vaberella]

236. I had my doubts about Gitmo and knew what would happen with the PO.

What does the EFCA have to do with Obama? They're relatively independent. Gitmo failed due to the actions of Congress. PO failed due to the actions of the Senate. I was fully aware that Congress fucked up a lot of things. They did some productive things, but mainly when most of said productive things were watered down.

So I was hopeful, but I didn't really expect him to win those with the kind of Congress he was given.

[dionysus]

203. is obama a con-man?

[grahamhgreen]

230. More like neo-con.

[RBInMaine]

226. Crazy post.

[AtomicKitten]

80. LOL!! Challenged in a primary by whom?

TPM link: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/poll-obama-way-ahead-in-hypothetical-2012-nh-primary.php

Obama vs Dean........78% - 10%
Obama vs Sanders....79% - 8%
Obama vs Clinton.....59% - 28%

In the words of Keith Olbermann, a primary challenge is genius, genius I tells ya!

:patriot:

[derby378]

85. That's three we knew weren't running anyway...

...and Sanders isn't even a Democrat, although he behaves more like a Dem than some Dems in Congress.

But if it makes you feel any better...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xf6wNZNM0tU&feature=related

[AtomicKitten]

88. That's genius I tells ya!

[BklnDem75]

246. Maybe you're not a Democrat at all

That's why Sanders seems to be a better fit for you.

[Pisces]

89. Not going to happen, try again.

[ClarkUSA]

91. Republicans sure would enjoy that. I'm sure they'll do their best to underwrite Nader again.

[grahamhgreen]

93. I hope everyone here realizes that Terry Randall is officially running as a Dem against Obama and

that a subsequent debate between Randall and Obama, without any voice on the left would would be a travesty.

Randall is that Operation Rescue nutjob.

We can not afford to allow the party to be represented by a radical economic conservative Dem and a pro-lifer.

[derby378]

100. Randall Terry is as Democratic as Arlen Specter

Pure political opportunist, nothing more. We know better.

[grahamhgreen]

110. Does he get to debate?

I don't know what the rules are....

[dionysus]

171. he wouldnt get near a debate with obama.

[Whisp]

98. by whom?

yeh, thought so...

you.

:crazy:

that will sure show him!

[Exilednight]

120. Howard Dean would be a nice choice, so would

Bernie Sanders, Al Franken or Dennis Kucinich.

[Whisp]

133. I believe they have declined. You going to talk them into it? nt

[Exilednight]

154. I would lie if I siad that the thought hasn't crossed my mine. n/t

[polmaven]

208. Of course they have...

All three are smart men and are aware of what a primary challenge would do to the Democratic Party in 2012.

[jenmito]

99. Bull. He has accomplished more in his first two years than most modern-day presidents. He has, so

far, kept 134 promises and broke 39: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

[whatchamacallit]

101. Yawn...

When it comes to the stuff that really counts he's a fail.

[jenmito]

102. Riiight...

none of the things that got done really count. :eyes:

[Exilednight]

122. Actually, he hasn't. Carter has the best average of campaign promises kept. n/t

[BklnDem75]

132. And he got primaried!

I'm detecting a pattern here...

[Exilednight]

153. better to be a good one term president than a mediocre two term president. n/t

[BklnDem75]

162. I'm pretty positive his goal was two terms

Unfortunately, some geniuses thought it was a good idea to primary an incumbent President and we ended up with Raygun/Bush for 12 years. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[Exilednight]

163. I am positive that everyone who holds the office thinks of themselves as a two term president ......

and I am sure that Carter was no exception, but his loss was less to do with Ted Kennedy and more to do with the economy. He wasn't a victim, as some would like to believe, of forces within the party. He was a victim of bad economical timing.

And you're right, those that don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. If Obama doesn't fix economy before election day in 2011, he's going to be a one term mediocre president.

[BklnDem75]

183. Keep hoping

It was the far left doing what it always do with Democratic incumbents since LBJ. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Exilednight]

184. What exactly do you think I am hoping for? n/t

[BklnDem75]

186. That someone other than Obama becomes President

You ARE calling for a primary.

[Exilednight]

189. I can honestly say that you are wrong. But that's what happens when people make assumptions about

other people.

[BklnDem75]

190. I can honestly say you surprised the hell out of me

Pretty positive I'm not the only one.

[polmaven]

209. President Carter had 4 years.

To date, President Obama has had under 26 months. How was his count in the same time period. I don't know, do you?

[Exilednight]

212. Yes, I do. Less than 2 years to go and

less than half of his campaign promises kept, coupled with a hostile congress, he's not going to come anywhere near Carter's success rate.

[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[stevenleser]

104. There already is a Democratic primary challenger. Here is his website

http://tinyurl.com/4oztrfn

Go to it, start supporting him.

[stevenleser]

106. And we can hear the primary challenger speak on blogtalk radio

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/mercerforpresident2012

[Patriot 76]

108. Disagree, the focus in 2012 should every other office up for a vote.

Seats in Congress, Governors, and your Local and State elections.

[treestar]

112. You're obsessed with the presidency

What good would it do to have Kucinich himself as President, if there is a Republican or Blue dog congress?

How hard is it to realize that Obama would do a lot more if he had a more left wing Congress?

Yet I see no "disappointment" with individual Congressmen, no talk about doing the hard work of electing those people. Just tilting at windmills as if a President is all powerful. What will you do when you find whoever is your ideal President is just as disappointing?

[Exilednight]

123. History has proven that presidents have better luck at making

congress bend to their will. Sadly, Bush was more effective at making a Democratic congress bend to his will than Obama did when he had a Democratic congress.

[vaberella]

238. That's false. History has shown that Presidents get things done with a like-minded Congress. n/t

[Exilednight]

243. That's completely off topic of what I said. n/t

[dionysus]

176. a lot of the people pushing this crap started in on it before he even got sworn in.

[quaker bill]

116. By whom and what army?

Yes, what we should do now is divide our forces and waste resources on a pointless primary challenge. Brilliant strategy!

Like it or not, President Obama is dealing with political reality. Nothing since day one would have passed but for accomodation. If you do not like accomodation of the right, work to get as many of them defeated as possible. The President will not go out of his way to give them power they do not have. Making them powerless and making progressives the party that must be accomodated to pass anything, is the only thing that will get the job done.

I would prefer that to the extent we can, we work to make sure that no republican get elected to any office anywhere. We should "primary" all of them. Any that run unopposed simply send money to the others with opposition, we should challenge them all.

[phleshdef]

117. He won't be. The party will back him by a huge majority. He will be the nominee.

And there isn't a damn thing you can do about it.

[tweeternik]

196. And re-elected! n/t

[DeSwiss]

121. K&R - n/t

[RBInMaine]

124. Fringe nonsense.

[adigal]

125. I agree - he is a HUGE disappointment to me

He is so willing to go along to get along. I just don't understand it. He wants everyone to like him. At least Hillary knew the repubs were liars and scum. She would not have played as nice with them,

[ChairmanAgnostic]

161. agreed.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

134. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WolfoftheWild]

146. if you're not attcking Obama, you should have nothing to worry about.

[grahamhgreen]

127. I don't even think the man wants the job. He certainly doesn't want to be the Dem president.

[dionysus]

172. when you say stuff like that, it really shows a lot.

[BklnDem75]

136. I agree

with the other posts. Stupid idea

[opihimoimoi]

137. I happen to think this is divisive for the Party...it strengthens the GOPers agenda

[donheld]

138. Obama 2012 campaign slogan "oh you'd rather have Sarah" isn't that great?

[FrenchieCat]

139. I say go ahead....primary the President!

as long as folks understand the consequences. And since most do seem to understand....so be it.

There are those who don't think he's kissed enough far Left ass.....understood.

Read you loud and clear! :patriot:

But he has...

Reversed 'global gag rule', allowing US aid to go to organizations regardless of whether they provide abortions

Signed the Family Smoking Prevention and Tobacco Control Act, giving the FDA the authority to regulate the manufacturing, marketing, and sale of tobacco for the first time

Signed New START Treaty - nuclear arms reduction pact with Russia

Renewed dialogue with NATO and allies on strategy issues

Ended the stop-loss program which made soldiers serve as many as 4 tours in war

Increased average fuel economy standards from 27.5mpg to 35.5mpg, starting in 2016

Reversed the policy of barring media coverage during the return of fallen soldiers to Dover Air Force Base and provided travel expenses to families of fallen soldiers to be on hand when the body arrives at Dover AFB

Launched recovery.gov to track spending from the Recovery Act, providing transparency and allowing the public to report fraud, waste, or abuse

Signed the Weapons Systems Acquisition Reform Act to stop fraud and wasteful spending in the defense procurement and contracting system

Provided the Department of Veterans Affairs with more than $1.4 billion to improve services to America's Veterans

Signed the Children's Health Insurance Reauthorization Act, which provides health care to 11 million kids -- 4 million of whom were previously uninsured

Issued executive order to repeal Bush era restrictions on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research

Signed the Christopher and Dana Reeve Paralysis Act, the first piece of comprehensive legislation aimed at improving the lives of Americans living with paralysis

Developed stimulus package, which includes approx. $18 billion for nondefense scientific research and development

Issued executive order to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay (although the Senate turned down funding twice on this...but let's primary him!)

Ended Bush administration's CIA program of 'enhanced interrogation methods' by requiring that the Army field manual be used as the guide for terrorism interrogations

Increased minority access to capital

Signed the Edward M. Kennedy Serve America Act, which expands the scope of AmeriCorps and provides opportunities for young people and senior citizens to join in service programs.

Established Credit Card Bill of Rights, preventing credit card companies from imposing arbitrary rate increases on customers

Health Care Reform Bill, preventing insurance companies from denying insurance because of a pre-existing condition

Health Care Reform Bill, allowing children to remain covered by their parents' insurance until the age of 26

Tax credits for up to 29 million individuals to help pay for health insurance

Tax cuts for up to 3.5 million small businesses to help pay for employee health care coverage

Expansion of Medicaid to all individuals under age 65 with incomes up to 133 percent of the federal poverty level

Cut prescription drug cost for medicare recipients by 50%

Require health insurance plans to disclose how much of the premium actually goes to patient care

Added 4.6 billion USD to the Veterans Administration budget to recruit and retain more mental health professionals

Significantly increased funding for the Violence Against Women Act

Provided $12.2 Billion in new funding for Individuals With Disabilities Education Act

Lifted restrictions granting Cuban Americans unrestricted rights to visit family and send remittances to the island

Eliminated subsidies to private lender middlemen of student loans and protect student borrowers

Significantly expanded Pell grants, which help low-income students pay for college

Increased funding for national parks and forests by 10%

Expanded hate crime law in the US to include sexual orientation through the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act

Extended Benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees

Appointed more openly gay officials than any other president in US history

Provided stimulus funding to boost private sector spaceflight programs

Appointed nation's first Chief Technology Officer

Signed financial reform law establishing a Consumer Financial Protection Bureau to look out for the interests of everyday Americans

Signed financial reform law requiring lenders to verify applicants' credit history, income, and employment status

Signed financial reform law prohibiting banks from engaging in proprietary trading (trading the bank's own money to turn a profit, often in conflict with their customers' interests)

Signed financial reform law allowing shareholders of publicly traded companies to vote on executive pay

Signed into law the Helping Families Save Their Homes Act to help families on the verge of foreclosure keep their homes

Gave tax credits for first time homeowners through the Worker, Homeownership and Business Assistance Act

Created more private sector jobs in 2010 than during entire Bush years

Seven of ten economic indicators have improved, showing signs that the economy has and continues to improve

Cracked down on companies denying their workers sick leave, pay, and insurance and also avoiding paying Social Security, Medicare and unemployment taxes

Voluntary disclosure of White House visitors for the first time in US history

Appointed two women to the US Supreme Court

Promoted social responsibility through creation of serve.gov, a national database of volunteer opportunities

Signed the Repeal of Don't Ask, Don't Tell

Determined that DOMA will no longer be defended by the Government

Rescued the American Auto Industry

Got most of the Bail Out Money paid back to the Government

Increased Education tax credits to $2,500 per year for 4 years

Launched the Recovery.org website to show where your tax dollars are going, giving transparency to government

improved government transparency "included a ban on lobbyist gifts; restrictions on the hiring of lobbyists; publication of White House visitor logs and other records; and a move to bar lobbyists from serving on advisory boards.


NOTE: Most of these items can be found here: http://whatthefuckhasobamadonesofar.com/
http://www.daily-jeff.com/news/simple_article/4857392

"...Funny how easily so many white liberals fell for Koch financed propaganda especially when the person being vilified is a black man who has gone out of his way to help the middle class 1st and foremost. Nothing that president Obama has done these last 2 years warranted the amount of outrage and hate from white America that the rest of us have witnessed.

Saving a nation from a depression, finally getting hcr, wall street reform, saving the American auto industry,tax cuts, drawing down nuclear arms, negotiating with the other side, etc....wtf about that made white liberals mad, especially white males? Why are all these white PL pundits movie actors ex republicans dressed in liberal clothing etc always concern trolling this particular President? "
http://www.eclectablog.com/2011/03/this-whole-teach-obama-lesson-thing-is.html

I'll add that one should perhaps list the 8 years of Pres. Clinton's accomplishments, and then tell me where the calls were to primary him after 2 years? And explain the difference in treatment of these two. Thanks! :hi:

[obamafourmore]

173. Epic post.

[great white snark]

211. Preach it!

Thank you.

[EndElectoral]

142. He needs to be primaried. Wes Clark? Dean? Maybe Boxer?

[FrenchieCat]

143. Liberals will most likely lose most of the Black Vote forever--

and that's no exaggeration. Will it be worth it....while some wait for the Revolution?

I say YES....go for it! But Gen. Wes Clark, Howard Dean and Boxer won't run against
the first Black sitting President....

But keep thinking......
You'll come up with something,
and I'm sure Republicans encourage you to think really, really hard.

[Youth Uprising]

148. Why?

Why would liberals lose most of "the black vote" forever? Do you honestly think so little of African-Americans, that you think they can't see past their race?

[FrenchieCat]

150. Not when primarying this particular President has yet to be justified

to those of us who didn't expect Superman with a swagger
when we elected this President.

It might be different if someone could show how Pres. Obama's accomplishments
as worthy of him being primaried, but Pres. Clinton wasn't.


You got a list of Clinton's accomplishments in his first two years, cause I'd like to see them?

Here Obama's: http://journals.democraticunderground.com/FrenchieCat/687

Black folks have been voting for White Presidents forever....
so no, they don't discriminate.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

144. Fine

Who's in the running? And, while you're at it, please tell us the brilliant strategy that he/she has for enacting a 100% "compromise-free" progressive agenda if and when they get elected POTUS. :shrug:
This country could elect the most ultra-progressive person as POTUS but unless he/she also has an ultra-progressive supermajority and practically Republican-free Congress (which, for the record, I would not mind in the least), some people here will continue to be disappointed time and time again.
:banghead:

[FrenchieCat]

145. Some are waiting for the Revolution.....

and till it comes, some don't truly give a fuck about what happens, period.

[obamafourmore]

152. These people lives in la-la-land

[TheKentuckian]

193. Necessity is the mother of invention. A candidate is not needed, only the space for one needs

to be created and the vacuum will be filled.

You folks are hell bent on setting up a dynamic where those who are displeased have absolutely no outlet or even HOPE of such an outlet supposedly out of fear that challenging incumbents means a loss and ignoring the possibility that weak incumbents draw challengers and breed opposition.

I see little evidence that Poppy, Ford, or Carter were going to win in any event and there is a distinct lack of proof that they would have won if only they had been unopposed in their parties.
Correlation is not cause.

Few if any have demanded "compromise free" but there is a strong desire for capitulation free SOP and certainly a desire to avoid dealing with innate corporate friendly nonsense like the BP cover up, defeating drug re-importation, flammy loan modification programs, school deform, ramping up in Afghanistan and Pakistan with no clear purpose, end game, exit strategy, or even compelling reasoning, and in contrast to the epic and ongoing disaster they created, a fairly hands off attitude toward the financial sector, and an utter refusal to hold criminal Republicans accountable so they remain free to continue their reign of terror with much more than a skip in the beat, at most.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

210. Whew! There's so much to respond to here

First off, nobody can legally be prohibited from mounting a primary challenge to President Obama, so if you want him primaried, you are free to run yourself or find a candidate who you think would be better to draft. Most people seem to be happy with President and his overall approval rating is fairly high, so I'm not exactly sure what the point of primarying President Obama in 2012 might be other than serving as a platform to scold President Obama for being insufficiently progressive on some things during his first term. However, like I said, if somebody wants to play that role, they are legally able to do so. I would just point out that it's easier for those of us whom are NOT President Obama to sit on the sidelines and toss stones and engage in "Monday morning quarterbacking" then explaining how you might do things differently, which I sincerely hope any prospective primary opponent would do.

I don't pretend to know how a hypothetical primary might affect the general election. I do agree with you that correlation is not cause and I don't believe in the "President Palin disaster scenario" that some people espouse if President Obama were to be primaried, however I believe that it still probably won't really help things either in terms of strengthening him (and party unity) for the general election. Also, there would probably be few minds changed by such a contest IMHO and the disgruntled +/-20% are probably going to remain disgruntled with him after a primary and the supportive +/-80% will likely continue remain supportive of him. There will be a lot of unnecessary conflict and tension in the meantime (that will probably look a lot like DU writ large).

I recognize and understand some of the problems that progressives have with him and I don't necessarily agree with everything he's done or every position he's taken since he was elected POTUS but organizing to get a more supportive Congress and more support at the local grassroots level for progressive issues and concerns seems like a helluva lot more likely to be productive in terms of progressive change for our country than organizing a primary challenge against a sitting President from our own party over differences of ideology and/or political strategy.

[obamafourmore]

147. Who is stopping anyone from primary him?

Find someone, what's the problem?

[dionysus]

174. becauset here isn't a prominent Dem stupid enough to make a laughingstock of themselves like that?

[alcibiades_mystery]

180. A DUer should run! They seem to know everything

:rofl:

[vaberella]

239. Agreed. n/t

[TomCADem]

149. Hmm, Perhaps We Should Attack A Republican? What do you think?

[Drunken Irishman]

151. I hope he's primaried from the right...

Someone like Evan Bayh decides to run for president. The reaction here on DU would be priceless.

:rofl:

[Exilednight]

156. I think we need to get our own house in order before attacking someone elses. n/t

[TheKentuckian]

216. I know it would make you cream tour britches to see him move further to the corporate Reich.

That would be great for America and the party, dontcha know.

[Drunken Irishman]

222. No. I think it would be awesome to watch you people bitch even more...

You people are the most depressingly negative assholes I've ever come across. You're not happy unless you're whining. I swear to Christ this board is populated by nothing but Richard Lewis'.

So anything to get you all riled up is a positive for me. Especially when you people don't actually have a clue what you're talking about. Primary Obama from the left? What world do you live in? Obama has massive liberal support. Just because a fringe few who never leave their house and spend every waking moment on a message board don't like him does not mean the entire party shares that view.

In fact, I'd wager those who disapprove of him the most are in fact conservative, white Democrats.

That's why I hope you get your wish. Just because your bitching makes me smile.

[derby378]

245. HA!

I will agree that Obama would clobber him in the primary - and rightfully so. Might as well have Tom Vilsack make another failed bid.

[Kdillard]

157. Dumb with no basis in reality but not surprising. Good luck with the

Republican President, Senate and House

[jefferson_dem]

159. Nope.

Sorry to disappoint but that would be a worthless, futile, and destructive (to some degree) exercise.

[LWolf]

164. +1

[Keith Bee]

165. Sure...if you want a wingnut as President

Johnson 1968, Ford 1976, Carter 1980, Bush 1992...

[Freddie Stubbs]

177. Even Dennis Kucinich isn't foolish enough to try something like that

[alcibiades_mystery]

179. ROFL

:rofl:

g'luck with that.

:rofl:

[onenote]

218. +a really big number

[bigwillq]

181. Every incumbent should face a primary challenge

In 2011, 2012, 2013.... every year, on every level, for every office. It's called democracy.

[SkyDaddy7]

182. WHATEVER!!

No one in the Democratic Party will beat him in a primary & all it would do is help the Republicans...Which I am almost convinced many here want to do for one reason or another.

[Dokkie]

185. K&R

Just for the fact that I think hes taking the liberal base for granted. Its all about appeasing the independents and the republicans, nothing but crumbs for the dems who have stood by him and supported him. He needs to be primaried and maybe, just maybe we can get a president who would tend to our needs and not that of the right wingers and corporations who would never like him no matter how much he capitulates.

[creon]

187. Wrong

Completely wrong.
What needs to be done:
Organize
Find and recruit competent and honest progressives to run for Congress.
See to it that these candidates win the election in Nov 2012.
Organize.

Vote.

Get out the vote.

To do anything else is self destructive.

[golfguru]

191. Obama says "much easier to be president of China"

“Mr. Obama has told people that it would be so much easier to be the president of China. As one official put it, ‘No one is scrutinizing Hu Jintao’s words in Tahrir Square.’”

[RoadRage]

192. Please name for me the Democratic Candidate that would actually get elected???

Seriously - I swear 1/2 of the people on this site live in a Democratic Fantasy Vacuum where the only people who vote are Democrats and Liberals.

Obama BARELY snuck by.. and he's a centrist. Any further to the left.. and BAM - a republican gets elected.

So, you choose: Palin/Romney/Trump/Newt/Jeb/ETC. or Obama. 'Cause like it or not.. a far left ideologue isn't going to get elected in this country - no matter how badly you want it to be so.

[tweeternik]

200. There aren't any!!

The point here, I believe, is to attempt to push him farther to the "left". Fine ... but it won't have any impact on his policies. Obama is not the "far left ideologue" longed for in these blogs. Sorry ... :cry:

[vaberella]

235. Actually if we get progressive Congressmen and women who write legislation.

We'll have left wing policies enacted because they would push them into law. People seem to forget this. They seem to look to the President to create policies. He doesn't create them. Congress really should be the ones creating them and voting them into law. Sadly this is forgotten. People think, if Obama is primaried we'll have leftist ideology. If you had progressive Congresspeople---then you would definitely have progressive policies in place. As I said before in my post on this issue---our priorities are skewed---but now also our understanding on how to get what want.

[ReturnoftheDjedi]

195. bring on whatever Primary contender you can muster and Obama will kick their ass

[Marnie]

204. Absolutely Agree.

He went to the WH as the first actually voter elected President of this Century but he was caving before he was even sworn in and has continued to do much to please the Republicans who despise him on a deeply personal level, and done little to please Americans who actually like the guy and voted for him.

Explain to me how that is a successful political strategy.

[Name removed]

205. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

207. I don't like the idea, but what other way is there to pry him out of the arms of the corporate wing

of the party and Wall Street?

He is more worried about hurting their feelings than hurting actual people.

[vaberella]

240. How about making Congress 100% Progressive?! Did anyone think of that?! n/t

[BklnDem75]

247. But that would be too smart!

No, no, no! Obama must motivate us (also read: massage our egos) to get off our asses, even in a midterm, to do something that smart. It's not enough that we know the opposition is looking to destroy us in every way. Simply sitting out elections sends a much clearer message. Even if that message is 'We are Idiots.'

[Bryan]

213. I welcome a primary challenge

I don't begrudge people being unhappy with Obama per se, but the campaign's starting in earnest in about eight months, and those folks need to get behind an alternative candidate yesterday.

To play the devil's advocate, if the very high support for Obama among Democrats which is shown by polling is really a mile wide and an inch deep, and we're making a mistake putting him forward when there is an opportunity to successfully advance someone a certain degree to his left, it is almost incumbent upon the dissatisfied to make use of the primary mechanism, and try to change the rest of the party's mind.

(For myself, I suspect that there is no willing, let alone viable, challenger, and that even if there were, Pres. Obama would turn that upstanding man or woman into hamburger.)

[be_long]

214. the list is a mile long.

no challenger needed, Wisconsin has set the table, pay more attention, Obama/Biden run against the millionaires-billionaires, special interest corporations, toss in the criminals
on Wall St and remind the public who the R-teapublicans have disenfranchised, the list is a mile long, and of course, every ad that runs, we must remind the public of the destruction
the R's have done and are doing to middle class American.

[polichick]

217. True - and a primary challenge would help this party remember what it stands for...

...something that could serve us for some time.

[RBInMaine]

225. Another ridiculous fringe post. Give the foolishness a rest already.

[Name removed]

228. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LibDemAlways]

232. I don't believe the goal was ever to govern as a Democrat. All

smoke and mirrors during the campaign - get the base on board at the ballot box and drop them like a hot potato once elected. There is only one political party in this country and ordinary people haven't been invited.

[shotten99]

234. Be careful what you wish for. You just might get it.