Do you think stripping Bradley Manning naked and forcing him to sleep without clothing is torture?

[Cali_Democrat]

President Obama doesn't seem to think so and has been "assured" that the procedures are appropriate.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/us/12manning.html?_r=1&hpw

WASHINGTON — President Obama has defended conditions in a Marine Corps jail for Pfc. Bradley E. Manning, who is accused of leaking classified government documents to WikiLeaks. The president said Friday that he had been assured that such measures as forcing Private Manning to sleep without clothing were justified and for his own safety.

“With respect to Private Manning, I have actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures that have been taken in terms of his confinement are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards,” Mr. Obama said at a news conference. “They assure me that they are.”

What do you think?

[Exilednight]

1. Anyone who votes no, let's see if they would change their minds if they were forced to do it.

Personally, I like sleeping naked, but I don't have to worry about someone with a gun coming up and checking up on me every hour.

[TheWraith]

36. I sleep naked every night.

And someone checking on you every hour is called "suicide watch." It's what happens when someone talks about killing themselves.

[Exilednight]

37. Suicide watch doesn't mean you have to force

someone to sleep naked. They could just as easily kill themselves using a blanket, sheet or pillow.

Anyone who buys into this bullshit is beyond ignorant.

[vaberella]

61. Do you know much about it? Actually in cases of suicide watch they do take away the clothing.

They can make anything into a rope and hang themselves or find some way to stimulate strangulation. This is done in many prisons in the United States and is legitimate.

http://www.slate.com/id/2133393/
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5074203

As far as your other claims. They're not given pillows nor sheets. They are given a mattress and a very thick blanket they can't cut or use as an instrument. So I don't know what bullshit you think anyone is buying. But you're selling a bit of it in your post.

[msanthrope]

65. Prison mattresses have a pillow rise, too.....

The posters on this board who post bullshit about him not having a pillow are completely unfamiliar with actual prison/jail.

It ain't the Shawshank Redemption.....you don't get a fluffy pillow.

[MNBrewer]

75. Some of them do, some of them don't

[msanthrope]

79. His does--

"The restrictions related to Manning's pretrial confinement have become the source of debate surrounding his treatment. For example, Manning is not allowed to have a pillow or sheets, though he is provided a foam mattress with a built-in pillow."

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:QgLUUXbeDwIJ:www.aolnews.com/2011/01/21/accused-wikileaker-bradley-manning-is-being-mistreated-lawyer-s/+manning+mattress+with+built+in+pillow&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&source=www.google.com

[vaberella]

91. A built in pillow probably made of foam. Not with a pillow covers.

So I don't get your point. How is he going to hang himself with foam?!

[msanthrope]

98. He won't. Which is why I'm of the opinion that peoples need to stop the

bitchin' that Bradley ain't sleepin' right....

[MNBrewer]

101. Why do you trivialize the creeping disregard for civil liberties

under the Obama administration? Is the pot of water not getting warm quickly enough for you to notice?

[vaberella]

109. You should say that to his father, who says you're wrong. n/t

[MNBrewer]

114. This is part of a pattern of disregard of civil liberties on the part of the current administration

I guess the pot is warming up right on schedule. Boiled frog for dinner!

[msanthrope]

113. Getting a mattress with a built-in foam pillow instead of a nice fluffy down one isn't

a reflection of creeping disregard for civil liberties.

Please. I'm gonna worry the poor dear doesn't have a pillow????

[cali]

80. It may be done but it's not legitimate

And in many prisons it most certainly is NOT done. There is no reason to do this other than humiliation and breaking him down. He could be put on a 24/7 suicide watch if they're genuinely concerned about it.

[vaberella]

94. Actually it's not illegal so then it is legitimate.

I understand you don't like it. And that's one thing. But be a bit objective here. It's not necessarily torture---if the person is claiming he plans on committing suicide. It is a legitimate protocol for those who are suicidal. And you're right there are some prisons who don't do that. They just put you in a paper night gown and that's it.

[TorchTheWitch]

112. humiliation and breaking down is SOP in boot camp

Other than the solitary confinement, Manning is getting a walk in the park compared to what he already went through in basic training along with every other soldier.

Damn, how is it that everyone here seems to forget what every single soldier has to deal with as a matter of course in the army??? So fucking what if he had to sleep naked with a blanket to cover his modesty? At least he's not being made to exercise till he pukes, stand at attention in full ruck in the hot sun till he does a header, or have a drill sergeant screaming directly into his face all manner of spittle flecked insults while he has to remain stone faced.

This is just absurd.

[MNBrewer]

74. you do know he's NOT on suicide watch, don't you?

[Exilednight]

78. Then you need to tell the person I responded to. n/t

[vaberella]

95. Actually, yes, he was under suicide watch. n/t

[liberalmuse]

2. No shit.

I hate when people get into positions of power, then change because they're privy to "secrets" and think because they have so much more information than the rest of us that it's okay to keep us in the dark and then go so far as to try and justify shit like torture. If that's what "knowledge" does to people, let me remain "ignorant". President Obama, I've stuck by you longer than a lot of people, but you're losing me when you fucking condone torture. I should add that he hasn't outright condoned it, but it appears he's sidestepping the question here.

[lumpy]

3. Is Manning still on suicide watch ?

v

[MNBrewer]

33. That's like the old question "have you stopped beating your wife?"

Because he has not been on a suicide watch.

[vaberella]

54. He says he was not suicidal and they say he was...understood... n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

4. What is he talking about?

>>>>With respect to Private Manning, I have actually asked the Pentagon whether or not the procedures that have been taken in terms of his confinement are appropriate and are meeting our basic standards,” Mr. Obama said at a news conference. “They assure me that they are.”>>>>>

Neither Bush II nor Reagan would have said anything so inane.

[Exilednight]

30. Asking the Pentagon if they are doing a good job is like asking

Wall Street if they are properly regulated.

[KansDem]

5. "Torture?" I thought it was called "enhanced interrogation."

Or, as the folks at FOX want us to believe, "frat pranks."

[NC_Nurse]

6. What's the thermostat set on? That is my first thought... If they are not keeping him

warm enough that's more than psychological intimidation.

I think this whole thing is just more evidence of what depths our country has sunken too. Sadly, I'm not surprised in the least.

[ProSense]

7. "President Obama doesn't seem to think"

Utter distortion. First of all, you have no confirmation of what is happening. Second, Manning is not stripped "naked" as he himself allegedly indicates he is left in his underwear. Third, what you describe is not torture, especially barring context. Fourth, and most important, that is not the question the President responded to.

The poll is BS.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lumpy]

10. Do you know if Manning is without certain clothing because of

his suicide attempt?

[MannyGoldstein]

15. Do you have info on a suicide attempt?

I don't think there was one.

[MNBrewer]

35. There was not.

He has never been placed on a Suicide Watch.

[vaberella]

55. He was actually. He was placed on suicide watch.

The question is---was there an attempt to commit suicide, not if he was placed on one.

[MNBrewer]

76. Everything I have read indicates that he was never put on suicide watch

If you have alternate information, I'd like to review it.

[vaberella]

96. Here are a list of reputable articles on the fact he WAS in Suicide Watch.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-12728315
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/11/stripped-naked-bradley-manning-prison
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2011/03/bradley-mannings-attorney-on-mannings-conditions/72055/

Even an organization put out for him listed this: http://www.bradleymanning.org/16023/manning-removed-from-two-day-suicide-watch-attorney-files-complaint-calls-action-punitive/

I'm trying to figure out, how you were under the impression he was not. If you put a search on google, with his name and suicide watch you get 137,000 results. I find it a bit surprising you read nothing on it. And I listed the most reputable sites to make sure they were as legit as possible.

I would recommend retracting that obvious falsehood you were spreading about him not being on suicide watch. I believe currently he's not on suicide watch...they usually hold in you such conditions for 24-48 hours. However he most definitely was.

[TheWraith]

102. He didn't have an attempt, he made reference to killing himself.

In military detention, that's more than enough for a suicide watch.

[AtomicKitten]

19. He made a comment about committing suicide.

His lawyer says the comment was sarcasm. However, it could also be construed as verbalizing suicidal ideation and this traditionally invokes a so-called suicide watch as a precautionary measure. He is given two blankets at night to sleep.

[vaberella]

56. Ahhh, so in a situation as he was in, he has time to make a sarcastic comment?!

Lordy. You'd think he'd take the situation a bit more seriously. The don't take anything you say as just "mere sarcasm"---it's like the internet. They take it seriously and unless you have an emoticon (or even if you do) they don't care. That kind of comment is taken very seriously.

[AtomicKitten]

86. He is not sleeping naked.

He may have for two days (according to my research) but was given two blankets for sleep. He has since been given the standard suicide-proof sleepsuit. His comment: "I could kill myself with the elastic in my underwear and my flip-flops" was taken seriously as it should be and activated the standard protocol for suicide prevention.

His maximum security detention is no picnic, but it is a far cry from the charge of torture. Sure, FDL is raising money on that allegation, but that doesn't make it true.

[MannyGoldstein]

14. In fact, Obama's approval *proves* it's not torture

Obama says we don't torture.

Obama approves of treatment.

Ergo, it is not Torture.

QED

[ProSense]

16. Obama's approval

is driving his detractors crazy!

[MannyGoldstein]

17. But it's not driving Manning crazy

Because it's not torture.

[ProSense]

18. Are you Manning? n/t

[MannyGoldstein]

26. We are all Manning

Atman=Brahman

Or to put it another way:

"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

-- Martin Niemöller

[polichick]

99. Yes indeed! nt

[polichick]

97. LOL

[GeorgiaPeach]

8. Sickened.

[Peace Patriot]

11. Yes, course it is! Someone unrec'ed this thread. Why would anyone do that?

I rec'ed it, because I think it's good to ask questions about torture, especially since our government abandoned the Geneva Conventions. We NEED to think about it--for humanitarian reasons, and because it is yet another policy of our government that most Americans disagree with. (With 9/11 fear still running high, in May 2004, SIXTY-TWO PERCENT of Americans opposed torture "under any circumstances"--NYT poll).

I rec'ed it, and the rec's then came to zero, so somebody unrec'ed it. Why would anybody wish to dampen a discussion of what is and what isn't torture?

[emilyg]

31. rec.

[Sheepshank]

12. NO ONE should be forced to sleep!!!!! And that's all I have to say about that n/t

[Sheepshank]

13. ps if he were forced to stay away nakkie, I may have more to say about that. n/t

[DirkGently]

20. Disgusting anyone would debate or defend this. It's criminal, period.

[AtomicKitten]

21. Manning committed a serious crime; that is undeniable. Supporting/agreeing with him is irrelevant.

[DirkGently]

22. He's accused of a crime. His treatment is unconscionable & indefensible. THAT is undeniable.

Edit: It is "irrelevant" and flatly dishonest to opine on his guilt, and laughable to call it undeniable, more so given the ludicrous capital offense charges now heaped upon him.

Again, disgusting to debate or defend the tactics being used against him.

[AtomicKitten]

23. He shouldn't have yelled "fire" in a crowded theater (analogy).

as I noted above:

He made a comment about committing suicide. His lawyer says the comment was sarcasm. However, it could also be construed as verbalizing suicidal ideation and this traditionally invokes a so-called suicide watch as a precautionary measure. He is given two blankets at night to sleep.

The expectation that because you support what he did he should be prosecuted/treated in any way different than the prescribed by-the-book remedy is indicative of the ridiculous, fallacious posturing of the anarchist far left.

[DirkGently]

46. There is nothing vaguely "by the book" in Manning's treatment, nor anything vaguely rational in

your words here.

[AtomicKitten]

81. "I could kill myself with the elastic in my underwear or with my flip-flops."

Quote by Manning that precipitated the appropriate standard response from his captors whose job it is to prevent him from harming himself. Manning's attorney insists he was being sarcastic in his remarks, but his captors don't have the luxury of taking his word for it.

Manning's maximum security detention is no picnic, his political cause celebre notwithstanding, but there is nothing vaguely rational in the accusation of torture.

[ReggieVeggie]

32. where is his trial?

or don't you believe in such things?

[stevenleser]

34. Where is anyone's trial who is awaiting their trial date? n/t

[ReggieVeggie]

43. are they being tortured as well?

[stevenleser]

73. Since Manning isn't being tortured, your question makes no sense. n/t

[truebrit71]

84. I missed the verdict. When was that handed down?

:eyes:

[AtomicKitten]

87. He confessed.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/wikileaks-chat/

[truebrit71]

90. So he's been convicted?

No. Not really.

[AtomicKitten]

92. His confession rather ends the debate on guilt, don't you think?

[Caretha]

88. Ever heard the phrase

"Innocent until proven guilty"?

Crickets???

I thought not.

BTW, I've sat on many a jury and been the jury foreman. You better pray you are never a member of a jury I'm the foreman for. That's all I have to say.

[AtomicKitten]

89. Ever heard the phrase --

"He confessed." ?????

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/wikileaks-chat/

"A trial by jury is not a trial by one's peers, it's a trial by twelve people too stupid to get out of jury duty."

--- CW

[treestar]

72. Then how hard are you working for the following:

1. The change or repeal of all regulations and procedures involved in military or other detention. This has been the rules for years, why do we care only now?

2. the repeal of all laws allowing for classified documents? The only reason this person is held is that there are such laws.

3. what else is torture? What other policies for detention exist which are "torture?" Why aren't we worried about those?

[DirkGently]

85. Guess Amnesty International thinks this is something different. Why is that, you think?

[Carolina]

115. thank you, totally agree

Forcing someone to strip is humiliating. Period. The Nazis did it and as did the US in Abu Ghraib

Anyone who says this isn't torture should take a walk in Manning shoes for just one day!

[Sky Masterson]

24. All that we all know is what we hear.

We don't know the facts because we aren't all directly involved with whats happening.
I refuse to jump on the emotional outrage wagon.
And I'm sorry but Obama is no Bush.

[stevenleser]

25. No, not torture. I refer to the UN Conventions on Torture and Red Cross definitions

http://www2.ohchr.org/english/law/cat.htm and http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/69mjxc.htm

He's not being waterboarded, whipped, slapped, punched, electrocuted, kicked, etc. His nails are not being pulled out. He's not being burned or held with his head below water.

We cannot redefine torture to mean whatever we want it to mean, in either direction.

There are two possibilities that this treatment could violate UN or Red Cross standards:

#1 - If the room was particularly cold and he had to sleep naked without a blanket. Or if it was so cold that even with a blanket he was not warm enough.

#2 - If we was being made to stand naked outside the blanket and more than one or two others were staring or jeering at him so that he was degraded.

It's not degrading treatment if he isnt being touched and virtually no one is seeing him.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. First off, Obama has decided that the first document is null and void

since it would require prosecution of the previous WH occupants.

And, from your second link: "Outrages upon personal dignity: no specific purpose, significant level of humiliation or degradation."

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Exilednight]

44. How can you say that being deprived of one of the three basic needs of life is not

degrading?

[vaberella]

62. It is degrading. But it's not kosher to suggest you'd kill yourself. n/t

[bornskeptic]

27. not torture, not appropriate, and not being done

as anyone who read the article linked in your OP would know. Did you read it yourself?

[boppers]

38. I wonder how many people who think this is torture have been in jail or prison?

Or, for that matter, confined for mental reasons?

Kind of interesting that Manning is attracting attention, and that this treatment which is considered "normal" didn't spark constant outrage before now.

[truth2power]

39. Yes. And Obama is complicit. Deal breaker. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

40. It's not torture under any legal definition (as far as I know), but that being said...

I don't think it's necessary or appropriate to put somebody in solitary confinement for leaking classified information to serve a political agenda. This is something that has been done more than once, but usually it is done by people in positions of power. Bradley Manning isn't guilty of anything that Dick Armitage hasn't publicly admitted to in the Valerie Plame case, yet he never even saw the inside of a prison cell for a second.

Some people seem to think this is comparable to handing over our nuclear secrets to the Soviet Union during the Cold War. It's not even close to that. Manning (and Dick Armitage for that matter) should do time, but not under these conditions.

[ecstatic]

48. if he's in the military, he's under different rules

than the rest of us.

[Hippo_Tron]

50. I'm aware of that but I still think it's ridiculous

Look, at the end of the day these threads are turning into a debate not really over Bradley Manning's treatment, but really about the alleged crimes he committed. People on one side think he's a hero because they think US military actions overseas are evil and he should get a medal for exposing them, not be locked in prison. On the other side, people think he's a traitor to his country and should suffer the harshest fate that you can imagine.

I don't think the guy is a hero and if he did what he is accused of them he should do prison time (just as Dick Armitage should). But, I also don't think he should be locked in solitary confinement, especially if he hasn't been proven guilty of anything. What if you were considering joining the military? Wouldn't you think twice about it knowing that they could put you could be wrongly accused of something and locked in solitary confinement under these conditions (you can't exercise in your cell and you can only sleep when they tell you to) for months on end awaiting trial?

Maybe it's not torture, but it's certainly something I would never want to take even the slightest chance that I might have to endure. Nobody deserves the kind of treatment Manning is getting, no matter what their crimes or alleged crimes are. Solitary confinement for the safety of others is one thing, but the restrictions he is placed under in addition to solitary are absurd. Again, I couldn't care in the least bit that in the military you do what they tell you to all of the time. The treatment he's getting is unnecessary and it's mean.

[msanthrope]

66. He's in a brig that has only solitary cells.

This is what kills me about people on this board--Quantico brig only has about 30 cells. And they are all single-use.

Now, they are expanding the brig, but I seriously doubt Mr. Manning wants a cellmate.

[Hippo_Tron]

77. There's a difference between solitary and having one's own cell

Namely, how much time you spend inside the cell.

[Mimosa]

41. Every US Citizen charged with a crime: INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY IN COURT OF LAW

No ifs, ands or buts. But the government may have an agenda regarding manning. They may want him to help build a case against Assange, who still happens to be a journalist.

[vaberella]

57. Didn't he admit to giving up secret information?! How does that work if he admits to it?! n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

59. Unless you waive your rights upon serving in the military. UCMJ then applies

Duh.

[vaberella]

63. Oooh...I didn't know this. Thanks PBS Poll-435. n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

64. That should have said "Because you waive your rights", not "Unless"

There really is no 1st Amendment remedy.

[treestar]

71. But his supporters don't care about that

Even if he is guilty, they think he is a hero who should not be prosecuted.

The real issue is that they do not agree that we should have any laws protecting any documents as classified.

Manning or anyone should be able to and in fact should release all that information to the likes of Julian or any other publisher.

So why all the worry about the conditions on which he is being held? Isn't the real issue to work for repeal of all laws that allow for classified documents?

[saras]

42. There's a missing option

There seems to be a fair number of DUers who would vote "it's torture and I approve of it"
There's probably a few more who would like to vote "it's not torture, but still is abusive and inappropriate"

Whether it's "torture" or not and whether it's appropriate or not are two distinct questions, only somewhat related.

[ZombieHorde]

45. I wish we could ask Bradley Manning if he felt like he was being tortured. nt

[ecstatic]

47. Sleeping w/o clothes--is it to prevent him from hanging himself?

I guess the question that comes to my mind before I can make a decision is--why?

[vaberella]

53. Oh right...he was on suicide watch. Wearing clothing might be a problem in those situations.

That gives a different turn to the situation. I didn't even know that. I mean I remember the suicide watch thing, but forgot people use their clothes to do it.

[ReggieVeggie]

67. And he was on suicide watch because....???

because he's being tortured and mistreated

[OhioBlue]

49. unrec for BS push poll

it isn't torture. but I don't feel it is appropriate. If he wants to sleep in pajamas rather than underwear or the smock that can't be torn thingy... he should be allowed to sleep in pajamas imo.

And, no... I'm not turning on the Pres b/c I think things that I've read seem inappropriate about the Private being forced to sleep w/out pajamas.

[SwampG8r]

51. i was going to vote no but you rigged the question

yes its torture or no its not torture
you have yeas its torture and no its appropriate
i find many things inappropriate that are not torture

so i didnt vote on it

[vaberella]

52. I do think that is torture. Or at least mistreatment. But is this even true and confirmed?! n/t

[PBS Poll-435]

58. Who even knows? I know that if he really played the "I'm gonna kill myself card"...

I'd take even his shoelaces and give him a paper hospital gown.

I do believe that his lawyer is creating the atmosphere for a non-decision before the upcoming Court Martial.

[vaberella]

60. That's the vibe I'm getting as well. n/t

[msanthrope]

68. His lawyer tried that strategy before--that client is on the federal death row....

Hasan Akbar really was a fuck-up, but was held accountable for the murders he committed. Coombs even tried arguing that his snoring was a mitigating factor.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/iraq/article386812.ece



Now--Coombs himself has highlighted the incident where Manning had the bolt removed from his gun by his superiors because of his behavior--which is at odds with the claim that Manning is psychologically stable...


http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/09/manning-mental-health/#


Can't have it both ways--

[Donald Ian Rankin]

69. Absolutely No to both your answers.

It's a long way short of torture, and a long way beyond appropriate.

[Carolina]

116. totally disagree

Forcing someone to strip is humiliating. Period. As such it IS a form a torture. It is meant to break someone down, destroy them. The Nazis did it and as did the US in Abu Ghraib

Anyone who says this isn't torture should take a walk in Manning shoes for just one day!

[Donald Ian Rankin]

120. Being humiliating does not make something torture.

Having to wear an orange jumpsuit and call prison guards "sir" is humiliating.

[treestar]

70. I'm curious as to why it is so important

Like poor Julian and being accused of rape or whatever it is.

It seems necessary to find that they are being mistreated in some way, in addition to supporting what they are doing.

The bottom line is people are supporting those who release or publish our country's classified documents.

That's the main issue. those supporting that concept do not think that law should exist. manning or any other military person should release all information, classified or not. That's what these people are saying. He shouldn't be in prison at all, right? That law shouldn't exist. We should do everything in the open, whether other countries do or not.

[27inCali]

82. from what I've heard of his treatment

if it was being done to me, I would be laughing at the people doing it for even thinking for a moment it would break my spirit.

[truebrit71]

83. Per the U.N definition of torture it absolutely is. The fact that this is a subject of debate...

..on a "liberal" website is sickening...

The upthrust as I see it is that if Bush did it = criminal, but if Obama does it = okay.

I think that is reprehensible.

[Smarmie Doofus]

93. +1 n/t

[Azathoth]

100. So suicide prevention is considered torture by the UN ?

There's gonna be a lot of prisons and hospitals around the world that will be in for a surprise...

[phleshdef]

107. Being in a straight jacket is more uncomfortable than being naked... and thats still not torture.

This shit is just silly and make us all look really stupid.

[phleshdef]

105. It comes nowhere close to fitting the UN defintion of torture.

We've been openly stripping prisoners of clothing and putting them in solitary for various reason for AGES. The UN never said a word. Why? Because its not torture. Not even remotely close. You just WANT it to be torture so you are pretending its worse than it is.

[truebrit71]

121. Read the defintion as per the UN and then get back to me... m'kay?

..he is not just being stripped, he is being deliberately humiliated on a daily basis.

[Carolina]

117. Totally agree with you

And can't believe there are those here at DU who feel otherwise. Un-fucking-believable.

Forcing someone to strip is humiliating. Period. It is meant to wear someone down, destroy him. And as such, there is no question it is torture.

The Nazis did it and as did the US in Abu Ghraib

Anyone who says this isn't torture should take a walk in Manning shoes for just one day!

[Ignis]

119. Evil is only evil when evil people do it, of course.

When good people do it, it's necessary and just in defense of our freedoms.

:puke:

[Lil Missy]

103. Sleeping naked is not torture

:eyes:

[Chisox08]

104. If Bush was still President would the number of people who voted no would be the same?

[phleshdef]

106. If Bush had only authorized nude sleeping and solitary confinement, it would have been 100% fine.

Bush authorized letting people be put in simulated drowning situations, deprived of oxygen. Acting like this is torture and even remotely close to that just makes you look silly.

[Shiver]

108. Where's the option for

"I don't know who's telling the truth about his conditions and thus I don't know if it's torture or not"?

[sofa king]

110. In my personal case, yes.

I've undergone a frightening little procedure called a double orchiopexy. If my boys aren't snug in a home, they twist and strain against their steel sutures, and it feels a little like getting kicked in the stomach while someone is pinching your scrote with needle-nosed pliers--only much worse.

Sleeping naked was how I got the testicular torsion that required the operation in the first place. Just sayin'.

[Deep13]

111. Wrong and abusive, but not torture...

...unless it also kept him awake. Sleep deprivation is torture.

[Carolina]

118. wrong, abusive and torturous

Forcing someone to strip is humiliating, a means of wearing a person down, weakening him, punishing him, destroying him. The Nazis did it and the US did it in Abu Ghraib. It was torture then, it's torture now

Anyone who says this isn't torture should take a walk in Manning shoes for just one day!